Going crazy - Cannot decide 993 or 996

Long time 944/951 owner, looking to use a P-Car as a daily driver. My budget is $35-40K and I can find both 993's and 996's within this budget. My head is spinning because I cannot decide - 993 looks like the quintessential Porsche but the 996 has so many creature comforts and does not look dated (sweet interior too). I either buy a 996 Tiptronic daily or buy a good investment 993 ... Also, is this the sweet spot to buy a 996 because they are priced quite low? I cannot decide - What do you folks think. I looked through the archives but I am more confused now. I am going to pose this question in both the 993 and 996 forum because I saw feedback from the mod on an earlier question to do the same. Thanks in advance.

Best is to drive both of them, as many examples as possible. You'll know after some time behind the wheel of both. Take your time -- dont rush despite these cars being pretty emotional purchases!! They both have their good and bad points as searching the archives will reveal. Take your time -- dont rush! PPI anything you want to buy! Go drive as many as you can! You'll know. Good luck!

No such thing as an "investment" when buying a car like the ones you describe. Rule of thumb is buy the NEWEST car you can afford.

Having come from the 993 side, I definitely agree with Dell. While I loved my 993 (and miss it), it was a 10 year old car, and seriously lacked creature comforts for a daily. I was able to get an '00 tip in very good shape for less than your budget, so you have quite a bit room to find a pretty nice 996. If you're thinking about a cab, the 996 choice makes even more sense. Good luck!

I was in the same situation and have always loved the 993. After drving both cars I decided that the 996 was a more refined, more forgiving car that in my opinion handled better as well. Either car will put a smile on your face, I had a nicely modded 951 for years and as good and fast as it was there is something so special about the driving dynamics of a 911. I love my car.

Look, no offense but get off your *** and go drive a few examples of each. Both are great cars, but honestly most of the 993 guys will tell you to get a 993 and most of the 996 guys will tell you to get a 996. It's you $$ and your butt that has to sit in it.....maybe YOU should decide which YOU like best!! As far as an "investment", buy stocks or real estate if you want to invest, neither the 996 or the 993 is going to appreciate any time soon. Good luck! Let us know what you decide.

The 996 is guaranteed to depreciate sooner.

I see things differently than others and you'll be the judge if my tougths suits you. My needs were different has I was looking for a fun track car rather than a daily driver. I got myself a 964 because that was what I could afford and maintain. For the price I paid, I could of gotten an early 996. I like all generations of 911 and for me, I'd rather have a nice 964 RSA than an ok 996. Although the water cooled is more user friendly, there is alot more guizmos that can fail on a 996. Don't get me wrong, I am not a air cooled die hard fan but more of porsche fan and if I had the funds, I would get myself a GT3. Anyhow this is only my tougth and only you can decide. Do like others have said and go try'em out. Good luck with your search.

They are both used and both have already depreciated and will continue to do so. In fact both depreciated as soon as they drove off the showroom floor. The 996 was far more popular and as a result was produced in far greater numbers. As a result of that fact and some air-cooled nostalgia it has depreciated more quickly. However, it (996) is newer and will most likely be less costly to own and maintain. Ultimately, they are both great cars. Do you really want to turn this into another 993 vs. 996 pissing contest??

Spoken like a true 993 guy. They always seem to find a way to rationale their older, less reliable, underpowered, austere car There are Porsche guys and there are 993 guys. It will never end.

Sorry folks. did not mean to spark off a pissing contest between 2 good Porsche models - 993 v/s 996. Based on the replies so far, I am pretty clear on the pros and cons for each model. Based on a previous posters feedback (Ray I think), let me drive, have fun and decide. As long as it's a Porsche, I am good, because the other cars I was originally also considering were also the SLK-350 and the Elise (944 guys gotta like the Elise). I was dissuaded against either by friends and other car nuts.

Having driven a 996 GT-3, and several 996 TTs for some time (the GT-3 is awesome by the way)...you would probably call me a "993 guy" as described above. I just like the old school rawness of the 993, and even more so the 964 "rawnesss." The newer 996, and 997 even, dashes and interiors just don't ring true to a sports car for me...and especailly not in classic Porsche styling. Again, just my opinions...YOU have to make the decision as to whether you are going to be a water-head or an air-head. I am proud to say that I am definately an air-head. :-)

Sure, who would want to be associated with cars that make use of water for cooling? Porsches like the 956, 962, and 959 were really lousy. However, you said it (not me) you're an "air-head"!

LOL Ray...yeah, they were weren't they. A fair, avaiable street-car comparison, though...I'll give you that!

Considering the SLK-350 would also imply a sex change IMO And as for the Elise, I don't think it would fall in the "daily driver" category.

SLK-55 would work nicely though.

I first bought a 911 RoW cab and it is a blast to drive. I love the driving feel of the car as it is without power accessories. I bought a 996 last month on a whim and it is a great car for a daily driver. LOTS of power and of course good ac and everything else. I drove it around for the first few days and thought about selling the cab. Then I drove the cab and was in love again. My cab is a much better driving car, but the car is also lowered with turbo tie rods...whereas the 996 is bone stock. The 996 is way faster and does it easily, eventhough it is a tiptronic. As everyone else has said, drive both cars to see which you prefer. In the end, you will have to be happy with your purchase.

As someone who has gone through the transition of upgrading from an '89 to a '95 and now in a 2003 car, the two you are comparing are quite different. If you are coming from a 944, my first thought is that the 996 will actually feel more similar than the 993 to your current car. The 993 will - at first - feel far more mechanical. It has more in common with the 911 cars which came before it than the 996. The driving position will be very upright and sedan-like. I happen to really like this driving position, but some folks don't. The interior will appear like something from the '60s... which won't be too far from the truth. It'll baffle you as to why the intermittent wiper switch is where it is. The 996 exceeds in areas of NVH when compared to the 993 model. It can be driven all day with little driver fatigue. I'd say that I can drive faster and with greater confidence in a 996 than a 993. Ergonomics are also better, things like the climate control unit to the more usable trunk space. However, interior plastics aren't as nice. And, styling wise, I do miss my 993. While a lot of folks praise the reliability of the 993, it is an old car now, things go wrong. In fact, it was the reason I got rid of my car. Nothing fundamentally wrong, but just a series of things coupled with high repair costs pushed me to a 996 (and the bumper to bumper warranty). Peter

I guess one of the knocks on the 996 holds true WRT the cheapo interior. But I have FULL LEATHER in both my 996CAB and my GT3. It makes a WORLD of difference. But in my GT3 with the upright fixed euro seats and the center console delete it feels (and mechanically sounds) like a raw car remeniscent of the 993 era. Best of both worlds. But as most woud say, drive BOTH and as korny as it sounds, one WILL talk to you more and that is the one you will buy. If it was up to me I would have one of EVERY car Ferdy made. They all have their character and are representative of what we all have in Porsche--passion.

There's more to it, though ... I, for one, having owned a 99 C2 cab and an 02 Targa, was pretty disappointed in the overall build quality of both cars ... materials, sure, there's more plastic and so forth (I had full leather in the 99), but also the overall feel of how the thing is put together. The 993 has that nice, hand-built feel to it, solid, like a bank vault, much like the older 911s I've owned (911SC, 3.2 Carrera, 930, I am no newbie to Porsches); it's evident in how things fit together and how solid it sounds when you close the door. Both 996s were prone to rattles (particularly the Targa) and just had a more assembly-line feel to them. Little plastic pieces would come loose, the plastic faux-aluminum trim around the shifter would scratch, the trunk and hood switches on the 99 looked awful from getting in and out of the car, etc. Grab the shifter and it would rattle a little even in gear. That sort of thing. Performance-wise, the 996 is faster, more powerful and more forgiving. The technology is terrific. The cabriolet top in the 996 puts the 993 to shame. But I returned to a 993, and I, for one, am still impressed that a 10-year-old example with twice the miles feels tighter and more solid than the 4-year-old Targa I had last summer. Porsche cuts costs to produce the 996 -- not prices on the car itself -- and while it certainly helped the company thrive, it didn't do the car any favors. In my opinon as an "airhead." I think you could be happy in either car. Drive them both.

having owned or lived with 911sc 911 3.2, 993 964, unless you are referring to their RS versions, NONE of the above rear engined porsches are as raw as 996gt3. compared to normal 996's, yes 996 is softer. but compared to GTx cars, 993 is way soft, US spec gearing is way way way way too tall and it is NOT raw at all. try a 911 sc. street prosches are not RAW since quad cam 356's and spyders. now if you are talking about solidity and craftsmanship, then yes 993 has it in spades.

Follow your heart.

I am just glad that I am lucky enough to have one of each. One for each of my multiple personalities

How many miles a year? I put 25-30k miles per year on mine....I have all the creature comforts of a modern car....More performance than any normally aspirated air cooled car and a VERY inexpensive car to maintain. Also when I wanna hit the canyons, I have a VERY capable canyon carver....When my engine goes, I drop a new one in for 8k....this price will probably get cheaper and cheaper...I have even seen rebuilds for 3k....A new air cooled engine can be in the 20's.....If you are putting lots of miles on it...go 996 for sure.

Seen this happen before. He's heard the hype and wants a 993 yet cannot justify paying a premium for an an older car. Is it really worth it when he can get a much newer, albeit different generation car? Been there, done that and made my choice...996. You'd think, by listening to the 993 guys, that the 996 drives like a minivan compare to their aircooled predecessors. You want an investment, put your cash in a CD. The best thing is to drive a 993(you've driven a 996, no?) and look for that bit of rawness that is lacking in a 996. When I test drove both, I looked and I couldn't find it, although the windows were up on the 993. For me, my cars are investment in the enjoyment of life. I measure my returns in miles and smiles, not $$$. If I want my car to feel like a 993, I'll mount skinny tires on the rear and lift in the turns. Otherwise, when I want raw, I'll jump in the 2800lbs stripped and SC'ed 85 928 5sp. BTW: I'm looking into an SC for the 996 should I ever come to the conclusion that it is not the "Sports" car that the 993 was. One more thing, Did you take a look at the 993 board? Take a look... https://rennlist.com/forums/showpost...5&postcount=21

I have a 996 and a 964 which isnt all that different from a 993. The 996 feels like a very large car in comparison. The 964/993 is very dated inside and are not much different then they were in my 77S. I like the interior of the 996 however mine is all leather. As far as door sound there is a difference but not something that really means much. At least you wont have to worry about welding your door straps back together on the 996. The 964 is fun for those times you like the small car feel but for a daily driver I would pick the 996. As far as RMS problems you can replace it 5 or more times then the cost of one top end rebuild on a 993 for bad valve stems or the CEL problem. Water pumper or aircooled is highly over rated in my book. I like them both for different reasons. My choice is the 996 for a daily driver more for the comfort and less maintenance. The 993 for a weekend/evening cruiser.

I'll echo everyone else this is mostly an emotional purchase, otherwise we'd all be driving Corollas. Dirve several. I get nostalgic for the 993 and then I drive one and realize how big a jump the 996 design was. Odley enough though, I'm looking for an 87-89 Carrera. That's the 911 shape I lusted after as a kid. I really do like the way they feel and drive. I know that performance wise the 996 walks all over them, but these are the years that really say 911 to me. You've got to find out which one speaks to you.

The 996 effectively combines the qualities of sports car handling along with the comfort of a grand touring automobile. Each succeeding generation of the 911 has been designed to a higher level of refinement in the areas of noise/vibration/harshness/comfort/convenience, and you'll find this true in the development of the 996 vs. the 993. Some Porsche owners welcome this evolution, while others regret it. If these types of improvements are important to you, then the 996 would be a good choice. If you want a car that is more reminiescent of previous generation design, then the 993 might be worth a look. Good luck in your search.

I had '95 993 and now '99 C4, both good cars, but for the the biggest difference was my mindset betweent he cars, the 993 was a "classic" and it felt like every mile was destroying the value of the car, no track, autocross or driving in the rain. Driving the car became sort of an event. The 996 on the other hand is no classic, the market has beat these cars up for no good reason, the technology is current, I drive this car all the time-more is better- signed up for my first DE event, have and will autocross, take trips, drive in the rain, park on the street, forget to wash it sometimes (not often) and even have started doing some basic maintenance and mods. I'm having a blast with this car because it is a 996. But drive both and decide for yourself. I do kind of miss the sound of the air cooled engine tho.

Don't fool yourselves either about a 996 being soft, I have JRZ coilovers with GT3 seats, Kinesis wheels, Porsche sport exhaust with out baffles and bypass valve delete (among otherthings) and my car is as raw as any 993. It just takes a little tweaking and a little $$$.

Come on, did you really expect any less from them? There are multiple moldy figs "over there" that relish the opportunity to knock the 996! What else do they have? The 993 used to be at the top of the Porsche's heap, but is now outclassed in every objective measure by the newer 996 and 997. Acceleration, top speed, weight (yes, the 996 is lighter!), handling, stability, chassis stiffness (the 996 Mk I chassis is over 50% stiffer, 996 Mk II and 997 chassis are stronger still), aerodynamics, even fuel economy, and the list goes on. So what does that leave you to bitch about if you own a 993 and hate the 996? - It uses cheap plastics. Not so, have you ever seen a 996 dash crack or split?? How about an older 911?? Some of the early 996, parts were not the best looking, but they are hardly cheap. - The doors don't "thunk" like they used to. The 996 utilizes "frameless glass". It's much more aerodynamic (but it does not "thunk"), and Porsche also ditched the ugly rain gutters in the process! Additionally, if you ever have an idiot in an SUV barreling down the road at you from the side, which door would you rather be behind? The "cheap" 996 door actually offers much better protection. - It uses a wet sump (This is often lamented by 993 owners who's closest race experience is watching the Speed Channel from a Lazyboy in their basement). The 996 does use a "wet sump", but one that is specifically modified for high g's (extra pump, enlarged capacity). Hundreds of these cars are DE'd, raced, and run around the "Ring" daily without any problems. - It doesn't "feel" as "raw". What do you expect? A 1970's Toyota Corolla feels a lot more "raw" than a 1990 Corolla does that make it a better car?? A 3.2 Carrera feels more raw than a 964, which feels more raw than the 993, and so on. What in the world has Porsche been thinking continually improving these cars??? This absolutely must stop before they wreck the brand!! I love early 911's!!. One day (when I have a bigger garage) I hope to have an early 911. They (including the 993) are special cars. However, the idea that the next new Porsche is junk is more than a little silly and hardly anything new from the "figs". In spite of the fact that many 993'ers think they have the exclusive rights to this idea. Gatorone2001, do yourself a favor and drive several examples of both cars and pick the one that speaks to you. You will not go wrong with either choice, despite the feelings of some. Good luck!!

I like the old C2 Turbos in white.

Not to be contrary, but I don't think the post was knocking the 996.

Agreed. Did you read the post Ray?

one thing about 996 is long service interval they need minor service(oil change) every 15K major service every 30K i am not sure how much service 993 need

It's the same interval, by the factory's recommendation, although few enthusiasts wait that long before doing an oil change; I think 7500 is more typical. I don't see much bashing of the 996 from the 993 crowd ... I think a more telling question is how many longtime 911 owners who went from a 993 to a 996 were happy with their decision. I was one who wasn't, as good as the 996 was, I missed some of the idiosyncracies that make an aircooled 911 an aircooled 911 -- the sound, the ergonomics, the handbuilt feel. But I bought my first 911 in 1990. I suspect that most people who started their 911 ownership with a 996 might have trouble understanding that longing for the visceral feel of the older car. They might agree cosmetically that the curves and round iconic headlights of the 993 say "911" more than the 996 slab sides and integrated headlights; Porsche agreed, apparently, with the 997's styling. But they probably wouldn't like the older ergonomics and less powerful motor. Interestingly, as good as the 997 is, some of the 993 crowd who have driven them have been impressed by the car, but are not inclined to trade up, as it were. I liken it to the oldtime Saab guys who hate the GM cars; they miss the quirkiness, nevermind the better technology and so forth. And, to further stir up the hornet's nest, there's always Ferry Porsche himself, who gave this quote to Panorama in 1973: "Now, to put a water-cooled engine in the rear and to have the radiator in the front, that's just not very intelligent." But I'm sure he would have loved the handling, power and the brakes on the 996 anyway.

Quite a trite statement, dont you think? Every new model damn well better be an improved car! Yessir, the 996 is a little lighter and quite a bit stiffer torsionally. Quality, styling, personality, reliability, repairable engines and transmissions, resale Wait another five years, I am sure you'll see. I havent personally seen any 993 or 964 do this. Then again, I may need to wait another five years for them to start cracking Only about 1/4 of the cost of 993 interior parts And these findings are based upon?? Porsche expended effort in getting the 997 doors to 'thunk' like that of the air cooled cars -- guess there are more 'figs' that you think there are... I didnt have to buy the scavenge pump and pan upgrade for my 993 to go play on-track-- its truly a bummer my wifes Boxster is on its third engine -- 2003 model with 17k miles on it -- Plastic power steering reservoir melted at the last autocross -- dealer stated that they dont make them like they used to ...and they almost replaced engine #4 because of this?? WTF?? the redesign and subsequent release of the 997 was for a reason who said us 'figs' say all newer 911's are junk? The most accurate content of your post, IMHO, or course Do I like the latest that PORSCHE has to offer?? you betcha I do! Especially with much improved curvy styling and round headlights!! The 996 was their first stab at cost cutting to the point of hurting quality and reliability. Did the 996-Boxster help get PORSCHE back in the black -- sure did! They profitted on those cars like never before. Since MSRP on the 996 was similar to the 993, wonder where this newfound profit came from??

if you can get a 98 993 go with that.... but i doubt it will fit in your budget. other then that....... 996 has great bargains......

Oh no! Never...I've never heard the 996 being bashed. I posted a link to a sensible post by a 993 owner who can appreciate Porsche's evolution up to and including the 996, yet there were far more, dare I say 996 bashers. No?....

I read his post and I agree with his points about some of the 993 guys. I am sorry if that was unclear.

No, more like an accurate statement. Plus, quicker, faster, better handling, superior aerodynamics, improved ergonomics, better fuel economy, and after all that even more comfortable. Porsche really went all out improving the car!! There's a reason that PCA puts the 993 in a lower class for Club Racing... I forgot that the 933 was the perfect Porsche. Let me name the ways.... (Clogged SAI's, Worn Valve Guides, Lower Valve cover gasket leaks, Drive belt tension sensors squeeks and squeels, alternator pully failures, flywheel seal leaks, gearbox selector seal leaks, etc). One Porsche magazine even went so far as to suggest that if you are planning on buying a 993, you should have some money stashed aways for inevitable problems. I don't remember ever claiming the 996 was perfect. Looks like it (996) shares that DNA with the 993. I will, and I doubt it. Improved side impact protection from reinforced doors. I guess many of them aren't that hard to fool. Take a 996, add some new headlights, widen the hips, and make the doors thunk better and some are appeased. Pssssst, I hate to break it to you, the 997 is basically an improved 996 engine and chassis with a new body on top and a spiffy new interior. And I have not had to purchase a pump or a pan to go play with my 986 on track. Well that proves it, your bad luck shows that every 996/986 is bad. I am absolutely positive that none of the 993's that Porsche shipped were lemons.. as was the redesign (of the 993) and subsequent release of the 996. A car that has proven to be far more popular than the 993 ever was. Porsche introduced the 993 (and even made it cheaper to buy than the 964) and it was not even close to the sales success of the 996. I guess there are more people that liked the 996! ================================================= Chris, I'm really glad you are enjoying your 993. I have really enjoyed my 986 and 996. You are certainly welcome to your opinions (as I am to mine). My only point in all of this is that people in glass Porsche's shouldn't throw stones. Love the one you're with.

Dave, Usually I do not comment on these threads, but the level of posting on the 993 forum against the 996 and its owners "like we are not real Porsche people" and sprouting lies that the 996 engine is somehow related to a Subaru engine makes me ashamed to have anything to do with Rennlist sometimes. There are quite few people over there that I have helped in the past that are now off my Christmas card list. You cannot deliberately and maliciously insult fellow Porsche owners and their rides with impunity forever. Sadly Rennlist has changed, but for the record I have never had the desire to own a 993 which itself was an ecomonic compromise due to the massive financial problems Porsche found themselves in at the time. The 993 was justifiably in its day the King of Porsche, but the King is dead, and the Monarchy has been replaced by the Porsche Republic. Long live the Emperor and may his waters not spread across the land. Ciao, Adrian. PS: How many of the 993 owners slagging off against the 996 are driving non modified cars? If you compare a stock standard US version model year 1995 993 Carrera on 16 inch wheels against a 964 Carrera RS it was like driving a lumbering whale in comparison. Most of these 993 owners have had to modify their cars or have purchased modified versions in order to "improve the basic 993, which in itself was a major improvement over the standard 964 was not comparable to the performance versions of the 964 series. The same applies when comparing a 993 on PS9s to a stock standard US version 996. Not that any of us would like to let the truth get in the way of a good story. PSS: Some of these 993 owners should read Ferry Porsche's story. There are two books out there that he helped pen. If Studebaker had not got into trouble the second Porsche into series production (first being Type 356 and the second Type 575) would have been a 4-door, compact sedan with a V6 watercooled engine. To quote Ferry Porsche from his 1978 book co-written with J. Bentley: "I don't care if the engine is air-cooled or water-cooled".

Cars are best judged, like in figure skating, on technical value and on artistic impression. Everybody knows that 996 has better technical value, but 993 shines in artistic impression. In long term, the artistic impression can grow, while technical value sinks relative to the newer cars. A nice 356 can cost $50K, ten times more than new one was 50 years ago. On the other hand, 928 was a great technical value when new, but most 928's are now in "delayed maintenance state" (i.e., broken and not being fixed), and sell for few thousand dollars. The future of 993 is like 356 and the future of 996 is like 928.

Kool a 993 owner comes to the 996 forum and not only insults 996 owners and their cars he also says 928s are junk as well. Somehow I don't think you will get invited to any events run by 996 or 928 owners in the Pacific Northwest.

Figure Skating??? Are you serious?? Hey guess what, the public has already "judged" these cars with their pocketbooks and it was a "knockout". The 996 far outsold the 993. However, total numbers produced also has a tremendous impact of future depreciation. Which is a large factor in why the 996 has depreciated more quickly than the 993. Additionally, the 996 is only the first in what looks to be a long line of water-cooled 911's. The 993 is (at least for now) the last of the air-cooled cars, and as such will always have a special place in the hearts of many. As for the 928, it's one of the most beautiful cars Porsche has ever produced IMHO. I still stop and stare when I see a GTS drive by!! Maybe that's why Porsche is considering a new 928?

Do I need to create a new thread about who has the strongest dad or can we just deal with that here as well while we are at it?

You guys are so funny! I swear, the amount of totally useless and irrelevant "information" boggles the mind. No, this doesn't apply to you , what you wrote is excellent. It's the other guy. Anywho... I started with the 964, moved to the 993 and now have a 996 (I obviously joined this board when I had the 993). Each one has it's pluses and minuses. One thing that amazes me about many of the 993 fanatics is that they seem to mostly all have pristine low mileage garage queens worth slightly more than a new Ferrari. If one was to look for an "average" 993 with "average" miles for a 10 year old car, it ain't gonna be worth any more than a comparable 996. Several people had a good point about maintenance. The 993 requires a 15K spark plug change, which is not only quite often (if you actually drive the car, that is) but a real PITA to perform (or expensive, if you take it to the dealer). The oil change on that car is absolutely ridiculous, requiring removal of the right rear wheel, rocker panel, two filters and 12 quarts. The 996 on the other hand has one drain, one filter, and you can get to it all without removing any other parts. The 993 has the best engine sounds, hands-down. Some will argue that it looks better, but most will agree that is not the case with the standard USA suspension (which is too high). The interior is more, uh, hmmm... authentic comes to mind, as does "dated" and "stuck in the 60's" on the 993. The plastic on both cars is about the same - the 993 may have a silght edge, but the radio sucks and don't even get me started on the stupidest must unfriendly difficult and over-engineered "security" system, with that stupid immobilization system. Bit I digress. As a daily driver, which is what the OP asked about, I'd have to vote for the 996. If you were buying a weekend toy, where money is no object but you want the Porsche 911 experience and enjoy tinkering with the car and making modifications and repairs, then I'd vote for the 993. Michael

Adrian, Thanks for your thoughtful post. I could agree more. A couple of years ago when I had a 98 993 and a 99 996 in my garage I used to reply to these threads with a rational comparison of the two. I no longer bother. I figure if the 993 guys actually believe they have the best Porsche ever made good for them. They can live happily in their wonderland. Jim

Actually, that's not true ... by the book, the plugs on the 993 are changed every 30k miles. The 996 is a more comfortable car to drive daily, but not by a whole lot ... I've driven both 996 and 993 examples daily, even through the winter, and both are very reliable and comfortable cars.

I'm adding this to my dumbest post of all time list. Congrats. You're number 4. Jim

Thank you for that Jim!! You made me laugh hard and I needed that with this silly thread!!

OK, I may have been wrong on the mileage figure, but you gotta agree that they are a major PITA to change. And the book on the 996 says 60K miles, so it's still half as often. And half as many plugs. And half as difficult. So that's like, uh, 1/8. Michael

Um yes, but on your own forum thanks. This is the 996 forum. Plus to answer the original poster I would not consider a 993 now as a daily driver. If you want a daily driver you get the youngest car you can afford simply because you are going to pile on the miles. 996 maintenance is much cheaper than the 993 and if you can get a 996 with some warranty still attached even better. Remember only the 1997 and 1998 calendar build years of the 993 still have some long life guarantee left. If you pick up a 993 with hidden rust and it pops through you will have to foot the bill because the long life guarantee only lasts 10 calendar years from delivery to the first owner. For myself I much prefer the design of the 996 over the 993 as does my wife and all the other 996 owners I know. Ciao, Adrian.

Threads don't kill people, people kill threads. Seriously, the original poster of the thread asked for valid opinions. The "concept" of the thread wasn't so bad... but there are extremists in both crowds that feel the need to makes extreme comments. Stay above it and don't add to the mud-slinging!

I originally wanted a 993. Then a test drove a 993 and 996 back to back. 993 felt like an old car and the 996 felt like a modern car. I chose the 996. Test drive both, preferrably back to back, or atleast on the same day. For a daily driver I would say 996 no question, but it's your money, so buy what you like best. Glenn

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

This thread is very entertaining...lol....I am not trying to add fuel to the fire...but How many high mileage 993's are out there? High mileage 996's? I have 121k miles on my 99 996 C4 Cab....I knew I would be putting miles on it as my daily driver so I chose it over the 993. I wanna hear from the high mileage 993 guys...just curious.

I don't know any 996 extremists only 996 haters and quite honestly I have had enough of all the malicious crap that is thrown at us personally and our cars by other Porsche model owners on Rennlist and elseswhere. There is always a place for friendly rivalry, but the stuff being thrown at us now is just plain malicious and a lot of lies. Time for 996 owners to fight back we have been quiet for far too long. Ciao, Adrian.

Instead of providing commentary on this particular thread, it might be valuable if 996 owners could address the question that was asked by Gatorone2001. These forums should be a valuable resource for people to find answers to their questions, rather than a place where people lucky enough to own 911's bicker and attack one another. What makes a 996 a better choice than a 993 for Gatorone2001?

I agree Adrian and I genuinely appreciate your posts on the matter.

I feel so worthless in my Porsche selections. First my 964 is the ugly duckling worthless piece of junk and now i find out my 996 is in the same junk class compared to the 993. Darn I knew i should have bought a over priced 993

You mean other than the fact that Gatorone2001 mentioned it's to be a daily-driver? Surely amidst all the bickering, someone had already addressed this point many times over. The 996 is the better choice for a daily-driver. Is it the better Porsche model outright than the 993? Who cares?!

This from the 993 owner who chimed in for post #7 saying the 996 would depreciate faster. The original poster has had his question answered on this forum and we 996 owners say get a 996. Ciao, Adrian.

Yeah me to Jim. Ciao, Adrian.

newport.....f'in awesome pic! ...as for this thread?

I just bought an '06 997S Cab, I was contemplating an '04 996TT Cab but decided I wanted a new car. If I had bags of money lying around *cough* CGT*cough* and I could have a second Porsche, a used one aka 996 or 993 it would be very tempting to have a 993, but with 996TT'S & GT3's and blah blah no question a 996.

Like others I use to respond to questions like this with "drive and decide" along with giving some of the strenghts and weaknesses of each model and I usually never got baited into the fray...however...as an owner at one time or the other of either a 993 and a 996 it amazes me how 993 owners and/or supporters can type that the interiors of the 996 are cheaper and less nice than the 993. Lets face the facts that, except for full leather interiors in either car, both interiors are full of plastic. The 996 after the 99 MY year at least attempted to use "soft touch" plastics in various places. Hell, it could be argued that an 87 Honda Accord had a better interior and better switch gear than either the 993 or the 996. Ok I'm done. Dell pass the popcorn. Here's a drink

Here' you go Bri..... ...please pass me a pint of Guiness I have a feeling this isn't going to die anytime soon.

OK then... I give up. I was only trying to lighten things up a bit and point back to the original topic. To the thread's original question, it seems like the reasonable concensus from both forums is the 996 for his purposes. Going back to my corner with all of the "haters" There seems to be some pent up anger here. Really, you can't generalize like this. I find it really amusing how these kind of things turn into an us vs them thing. Crazy, IMO. BTW, great books Adrian... (I have the 964 and 993 versions).

Adrian, I have tried to provide genuine assistance and speak to the question asked in this thread, have you? When I purchased my 993 one year ago, I had my pick of similar mileage 996's through model year 2001. When a 1996 911 holds its value so well that it is similarly priced to a 2001 911 in 2006, then it has outperformed the newer model in terms of depreciation. It just stands to reason that the purchase of a car already 10 years old will offset future depreciation in relation to the purchase of a 5 year old model. In my opinion (which even I agree is likely worth less than yours on this subject), the 996 will go down in history as the most rapidly depreciating model 911 ever. This is only one factor to be used as a determinant in deciding between a 993 and 996, but I believe it to be true. Where is the evidence to the contrary? If it isn't true, inform me how this is so. How could you possibly have a problem with me pointing out one way in which a 993 will be a better buy for Gatorone2001 when that is the express purpose of this thread? I also stated in my original posts on this thread in the 993 board that the 996 was more polished, modern, actually faster, and has more creature comfort. It just so happens that I shopped last year both 993's and 996's for my next car purchase. I have attempted to provide Gatorone2001 with the insight gleaned by me from this experience. By the way, I have found your book on 993's to be an invaluable resource. Thank you very much! Mark

Mark, You are entitled to your opinon. I just wish you would have expressed it on the 993 forum portion of this thread and not here. Ciao, Adrian.

The 993 sucks. It is not a real Porsche. If you post pictures of your 993, I will tell you it's a VW with a Beetle interior. Do not post here unless you must hear the truth. The 996 forum has spoken.

Long live the King! Seriously, terrific book, Adrian. When does the 996 book come out?

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/order.gif https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif

They are both pretty cool cars.

Damn, that is some hatin', but pretty funny

Hopefully by Christmas, but which one I can never say for sure. Ciao, Adrian.

The Boxster book will be easy to write after you finish the 996 book. It would even be appropriate to use the same cover for both.

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

I think it all has to do with how long the aircooled engine and look of the body was around... 30+years vs. 8 years for the watercooled look... i'm sure in 10-15 years from now, we'll all think of the aircooled 911 as a "classic car" that is a great car for the weekend but not many will be commuting in them...

I found this quote, it was in my pocket with some lint" "993's are stupid." I'm not sure who wrote this but it was indeed powerful and true.

Bentley Publishers have already written the Porsche Boxster (all models as well I think) manual/book. The 993 book was very easy to write after doing the 964 book by the way. A large amount of equipment and design from the 964 was directly transferred to the 993 with a few modifications here and there. Oh I had to use the 928 manual as well for the rear end and the early Boxster manual for the later 993 interiors Ciao, Adrian.

Adrian, If the 996 book is half as good as your 993 one, it should be terrific. I liked it so much I have 2 copies, one of which is always handy in the garage as a quick reference. Just curious....but since the title "King of Porsche" has already been used for your 993 book, what would your 996 book be titled?

It will contain the word Emperor. I am still playing with the sub-title, but the King and the Monarchy of Porsche are dead and gone, wiped out by the Revolution of the Emissions Charter. Now we have the Emperor and the new Porsche Republic/Dynasty. Ciao, Adrian

Which manual are you using for the 996 interior? A Rubbermaid catalog?

True but sad...

No the 996 manuals. Ciao, Adrian.

As apposed to Sterilite for the 993, right?.

I don't see anything sad. Water-cooled normally aspirated cars from the 996 series have had big wins including the Daytona 24 Hour outright in 2003. Class wins at Le Mans from 1999 to 2005 inclusive. The Porsche factory team with a water-cooled turbocharged GT-1 won Le mans in 1998. The Porsche factory team's water-cooled turbocharged GT-1 with 996 headlights raced at Le Mans in 1997. Nothing sad about any of that. Ciao, Adrian.

dude, that was funny...................!

I thought they had to use the Antiques Roadshow auction catalogues when the 928 went out of production. Ciao, Adrian.

all right, the gloves are off. Your mamma's so big, her *** be called 993 or it looks like a vw bug!

Thanks for the info Adrian! I'm printing your reply and taping it to the inside cover of my copy of "King of Porsche".

If you don't see anything sad about your statement, then I guess I rather stop here as you would never understand. Wining races is not everything, even Cadillac and Lexus is doing that nowadays.

Sad, sad is a 993 trying to chase down boxsters on the race track............. and losing.

Sad, is when a 993 pulls up to the stop light, and the window falls down.

Sad is when the marbles fall out of my head....................... For those that don't know, I'm kidding. (marbles are still there)

Just 'cos nobody wins races with Cabrios, there's no need to get all upset about it...

The 996 version of this thread is far far more entertaining....I wonder if the original poster really was on the fence or just a joker deftly whispering "FIRE!" in a crowded theater.

Contrary to what others would have you believe most of us don't take the 993 vs. 996 debate all that serious and it is fun to just throw gasoline on the fire of those who take it personal. The truth is the difference between the 993 and 996 have been discussed to death and real information about the nuances of the cars can be found in numerous threads, not to mention who really gives a rats *** what any of us think (or those on the 993 board think for that matter) of the cars because we are all biased to for some reason or another. Who prefers what should be obvious by what they own. Personally, my 993 was great, it just didn't meet my (or wife's) needs/wants in car. I can admit that I am a Porsche ***** and want to try different cars all the time (I only wish my bank account let me switch more often). Everyone needs to drive and decide...but....why would anyone want a car with a Kinematic toe adjustment that less than 5% of the alignment techs even know what it is not to mention how to adjust it properly

Now there's a fair comparo What's sad (if we're really talking about sad), is that same 993 is STILL WORTH MORE than the Boxster or the 996, there-by having a higher "value".......to me anyway Viva la 993

What's sad (if we're really talking about sad), is that same 993 is STILL WORTH MORE than the Boxster or the 996, there-by having a higher "value".......to me anyway Who knows what the sellers of 993s are actually getting, but the asking prices for some late model, low mileage 993s is mind blowing. If you don't take inflation into account, some of these ten year old 993s have asking prices that aren't much lower than their original MSRP. When I sold my 993 four years ago, I thought I got a good price, but based on advertised asking prices the current owner of my old 993 could get more today for that car than what he paid for it in 2002. As far as the 993/996 feud is concerned, it amazes me how Porsche 911 lovers can be so critical of cars that have so much in common. This internecine feuding is someting which is apparently unique to Porsche. If for example you visit the Vette forums, you don't see owners of C5 Vettes saying that C6 Vettes are garbage and vice versa. BTW as a former owner of a 993, I love both the interior and exterior styling of the 996, and we all know that a stock 996 will outperform a stock 993. So what's not to like about a 996, and to top it off you can easily buy late model, low mileage 996s for the upper $40s..

You're quite the diplomat, Adrian! (BTW, we in 993land were hankering for an edition of your latest with color photos - how many books would the publisher have to sell in order to justify the run?) I'd like to offer a diplomatic fig leaf of my own here. As I've said on my home board, rationality is not the main driver of a Porsche purchase anyway - it's the image/lifestyle/romance thing, first and foremost. Try on both a 993 and a 996 and look in the mirror. Whatever you look and feel best in is your car. Let's face it, either of these cars (as well as earlier and later versions) provide more than enough technical performance to satisfy all but the most hard core among us. And I have yet to see an ugly Porsche, so it's hard to go wrong there, either. Bottom line is, whatever one does in life, get a Porsche, any Porsche, at some point. And make love with a blonde. And drink some really good Scotch. And try your hand at running your own business. Best, Ed (Three down, one to go.)

That is some really good advise For the rest of these threads : with butter please Damn, I have gained so much weight over the holidays

This thread is the shizzle. Boats, you're cracking me up...

Ed it won't happen. The cost of doing the 993 book in colour will result in copy prices of over $1000 maybe even as high as $2000 each. I asked the Publisher and that was the answer. I have no control over this. I write and they run the Publishing side. I do not believe you or anyone else would be willing to pay such prices either, I know I wouldn't. There was an offer to do a leather bound version, but this will cost around $250. The aim of the current book price is to charge less than one hour at the mechanic. Ciao, Adrian.

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

Actually most of the profit increase came from increased efficency in the assembly processes (thanks to some consultants from Japan), and reduced engineering costs due to the sharing of components between models (which also helped create more efficient assembly). Overall material costs were not much different. At least that is what I remember from an article in the Suddeutsche Zeitung 4 or 5 years ago when they inteviewed Wiedeking.

BTW, I am in the 996=Daily Driver and 993(or 964)=Weekend Toy camp. I had almost 160,000 miles on the 964 before I finally retired it from daily driving duties. The 996 fills that role so much better. While I am confident a low mileage 993 would do pretty well too, however I think the 996's larger trunk, larger rear seats, improved climate control, and a few other creature comforts still give it the nod. Where my 964 excels (and the 993 would be expected to) is in the um... "rawness". The engine and exhaust note are much more appealing (IMHO) and you seem to be able to more easily feel what the car is doing. While those qualities make it more rewarding during a spirited blast up an empty mountain road, they make it much more fatiguing on the way to dinner when I would like to be paying more attention to my wife. The solution... buy both. In fact if the 993's are all holding their value so well (as claimed elsewhere in this thread) avoid them. Instead pick up a 996 for daily use and a 964 as a weekend toy. You should be able to easily find a 996 (~$40K) and 964 (~$20K) for less than what many are asking for a 993 C2S/C4S (~60K).

Very true and this was all done and dusted when the new production line came online for all model year 1996 Porsche models in August 1995. It is also true that in 1996 Porsche implemented a new supplier selection/bidding process and they were criticised severely by the German Authorities and Dekra in 2001 for their lack of quality parts. Mind you so were Mercedes. However despite the parts issue in 2001/2002 and 2003 the Porsche 911 model topped the 3-year and 10-year reliability charts and was third in 7-year reliability chart. Ciao, Adrian.

The 993 is not a real car. It's now been transitioned to Fools Gold.......

Your mamma so big, she ate the VW group and the 993 got stuck in her tooth.

Yikes! Colour or no, your book represents a tremendous effort and is a wonderful resource. Thanks for writing it.

If it brings coin anything like those crappy 70s muscle cars are, I'll happily wear a fools hat and jingle bells and run nekid in the streets!! Neener neener!!!

Went through this same debate myself.....went with a well optioned 996 and have not regretted it at all.......... Will

Me too. I told my wife the 996 is "the Porsche to have when you're only having one."

Me to.

I don't see this as being cost-prohibitive - simply include a copy with every 993 purchased ...

This exact debate is why I have a 996. The "purist" drove the price down so low on the 996's, I can afford a 996 and sleep at night not worrying about wrecking the budget. Oh, and by the way, I also got the best 911 made out of the deal, sounds like a win-win situation. Thanks "purist"

Amen Sister Can't believe what those .....no body panel fittin', smelly *** carb'd engined, tacky colored vinyl interior'd cars bring for $$ I'll take a 993 any day............hope they bring that kinda' coin some day

I think the same was said about the 944's back in the day.................how'd that work out? Great cars? sure, but dime a dozen and worth about the same these days.

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

You're all wrong. The 356 was the only real Porsche, and all those 911s after it were for wimps...

I get my 996 fix every nite on XBOX live w/ RUF R-GT in PGR3. I have SO much fun crushing Ferraris with that car

This is a pointless thread and is an embarrassment to all of us. How old are you guys again? Jeez, man! Nine pages of wasted bandwidth is what this thread is.

+1 If you prefer 996 over 993, that's fine but there's no point of bashing someone who prefers 993. If you prefer 993 over 996, that's fine but there's no point of bashing someone who prefers 996. Same goes to people like me who very much prefers Porsche coupes and would never buy convertible, or tip etc., there's lot of people who like cabs, tips & whatever, it's their business, I can't tell them they suck because they like what they like. If I tell I like 993 i.e. because it's interior, it's air cooled engine or whatever, there's no point on someone trying to tell me i.e. 993 interior is not good, modern or whatever, I still like it and because someone else doesn't is not gonna change my opinion. I'm not a big fan of "regular" 996s but I really like 996 GT3 and also 997s, I have my reasons for it and no one can change that, same way I can't change people's mind who like "regular" 996s over GT3s, 993s or whatever is their preferred choice.

Nope, I'm sorry but the 993 is just not a real Porsche. Besides, you guys started it. Can't take the mamma so fat jokes eh???? I told you, the gloves were coming off!

I just sold a very nice 95 993 for a 02 cab,the 996 is a much more enjoyable,liveable car.

"Here's My Counter-Offer To Your Counter-Offer: Go **** Yourself!" That's what Al Swearingen would say to your mamma jokes. I have no problem of your jokes but I don't see the point of "taking the gloves off" and talking crap when you have nothing really to say.

Thanks Finn, that's what I was thinking...

Chill dude, it's called a joke and you guys having been playing it too. Have you read this thread? Sensitive.........you are.......... I'm sorry, I'mm ssooo soorry. Seriously, don't take offense, the 993 is a real Porsche and everybody knows it. Sheesh.

Well yeah, that's what my "go ****yourself" was too, a joke. No offense taken at all I know 993 is a real Porsche as is 996 but I'd like to see a real meaningful discussion, instead of bashing, between us 996 & 993 guys every now and then.

cool, cool. I thought you were gonna come get me!

Cheers.

Both of you guys need to go throw some cold water on your face to cool down. Wait... cold water won't help Finn because he is air cooled. OK, Dallas, you splash cold water on your face......Finn go stick your face in the freezer for a few minutes. Now, isn't that much better? BTW, that ^ was a joke!

You're right, throwing cold water on my face really doesn't help, below is a photo of one of my hobbies... They don't call me "king of cool" for nothing!

The whole 993/996 tiff is for lightweights. Ive owned 928s back in the 80's. Try telling a 911 owner in 1986 that the the future direction of the marque is to be be front engined and watercooled. Now that's hostility!

I have decided to go with the 996 as opposed to the 993. The choice was hard because I had a HUGE ear to ear smile when I drove the 993 (both my 944 and 951 will be up for sale soon to fund a future 993) but as a daily driver I have decided to find a 996 coupe with TIP. I am in a funky price bucket (40K or less) where I can find low (under 45K) miles 2000/2001 or not too bad miles (less than 65K) 2002. I am leaning towards the 2002 because of 3.6/3.4, warranty, "buy the newest Porsche you can afford" etc. Am I on the right track here or should I expand my choices and consider 2000/2001 as well. The 2002's are few and far between in my price range but there are quite a few choices with 2000/2001.

Why not a 99? No electronic driving aids and a little more "raw"- at least in 996 terms. You can find one for less money, and they are just amazing cars. Mine has 100k and runs strong and doesn't burn even a drop of oil between changes. There are lots of options out there.

You are killing me now!!! I completely ruled out the 99's as the first year for a radical change and hence a not too great choice. Pls don't convince me to look at 99's, I will end up tearing out what little hair I currently have.

I'd recommend the newest and cleanest model you can afford. At a 40k or less budget you may have a hard time finding a really nice 02+. However, you should be able to locate a nice 2000 for the high $30's. - Don't settle for a car that you don't feel right about. - Don't buy from someone if you don't trust them. - Insist on a PPI before you hand over the $$ Good luck!

1.ALWAYS do a PPI 2. Bill Gates (The Godzillionare) drives a 99 3. Later 99 models are NOT bad 4. 99 models will yield you the best price around....... Good Luck!

5. The fastest n/a 996 in the country started life as a 99! p.s. and it's a hell of a lot faster than your 993.

I think that the best thing about the OP deciding on the 996 is that we can finally put an end to this thread (and that nasty version on the 993 board). Thank God it will never come up again! Michael

993 is not a real porsche ... __&#%#/"? by the way, the engine of your car is in the back .. !! also, add fuel from time to time ....

Click Here

Good Choice! I went through a similar dilemma last year. Sold my 89 994 S2 in 2000 to upgrade to a 911. After and exhaustive search, ended up purchasing a mint 993 Coupe, Red on Black, 41k miles, Limited Slip, 6 spd, Fabspeed Exhaust...loved the car. But the performance was a bit lackluster. My 97 M3 Sedan, although not stock, was more fun to drive and outperformed the 993 (before everyone gets excited, remember the M3 was a bit tricked). After a few years I wanted more...so it was either a 964 Turbo, or a 996. After looking at and driving a few older Turbos, I just couldn't see myself go back to an "older" car. So I set my sights on the 996 and never looked back. 996 is an amazing vehicle, IMO, head and shoulders above the 993. With headers, exhaust and intake my 996 easily outperforms the 993 with grace and style and will lap the M, no problem. I love the car. Everything about it. Since owning both the 993 and the 996, there is no need to ever go back to a 993. It is what it is, the last of a breed, a legend, but the 996 is by far more refined and IMO, more pleasing to drive! If and when I ever upgrade it will be to acquire a 996 TT. Living in Detroit and having worked in the Automotives for most of my career, ZR-1s, Z06s and Vipers have no appeal to me. Although they are wickedly fast... My 2 cents�