Cat D GT2 - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Been lurking around the Porsche forum for a while now as I’d really love to own a GT3RS someday but it would seem I’ve just missed the boat as prices are still on the way upwards and even further out of my reach. However, I’ve just been offered a bit of a possibly tempting lure by a friend in the salvage trade of a 997 GT2 which unfortunately is a Cat D needing repaired. It is apparently only lightly panel damaged though he doesn’t yet have the car in yet to give me a proper description of all the affected areas. As I have no experience of damaged cars at all I’d welcome any help or advice from some of the very knowledgeable folks on here on how best to go about repairing and putting this car back on the road, and some of the potential pitfalls I might encounter. Where do I start? Should I use a quality local bodyshop to do the work or would it be best for future resale purposes if I went through a Porsche specialist? I know it will never be worth the same as an undamaged car but it may be the only way I’ll ever be able to get one. Also, are there problems when it comes to insuring repaired Cat D cars? Any sensible advice would be much appreciated.

I'd wager that the cost of professional repair plus the purchase price would be close enough to the entry fee for a straight car. Moreover, a straight car will likely retain most if not all of its vlaue at resale; not so the Cat D. It's financial suicide in my humble opinion. If the budget won't allow a 997 GT2, what about a 996 version if the same?

I'd have to agree. The parts for cars like this are astronomical and I have first hand experience as I'm converting my 997 Turbo to look like a GT2RS. Buying genuine parts from Porsche or even second hand is hugely expensive. I'm doing mine over a couple of years as I can still drive it. You'd possibly have a car off the road until you could get it repaired. Remember if an insurance company wrote off a car worth £70 grand because they thought it was uneconomical to repair then it's going to be an expensive project.

GreatPretender said: I'd wager that the cost of professional repair plus the purchase price would be close enough to the entry fee for a straight car. Moreover, a straight car will likely retain most if not all of its vlaue at resale; not so the Cat D. It's financial suicide in my humble opinion. If the budget won't allow a 997 GT2, what about a 996 version if the same? That's the sort of thing I was fearing/thinking but when you see a 997 GT2 for sale (SCOM) at 135k that surely gives you a helluva lot of money to spend on repairs if the base car is priced 'right'? Agree re the resale value comment. Re 996 GT2's; It maybe a great car but I've never really liked the look of them, they're just not for me. Thanks for your reply.

I've had fun looking at "light frontal" damaged cars over the years. It's often hysterical to see what these companies describe as "light damage". Having said that, the advice here is sound and it might well be a decent buy, just be realistic about what you're looking at.

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted. Some useful advice there, thanks.I know the salvage guy fairly well so I'd like to think I could trust him to sell me an 'honest' car, however I would have to get it repaired professionally as I have no skills in that area at all. I can imagine that it wont be cheap for either the parts or the labour. Edited by IainRS on Tuesday 24th June 22:02

supermono said: I've had fun looking at "light frontal" damaged cars over the years. It's often hysterical to see what these companies describe as "light damage". Having said that, the advice here is sound and it might well be a decent buy, just be realistic about what you're looking at. Indeed. It's impossible for us to determine the extent of the damage over the internet. But due diligence is needed.

IainRS said: Been lurking around the Porsche forum for a while now as I’d really love to own a GT3RS someday but it would seem I’ve just missed the boat as prices are still on the way upwards and even further out of my reach. However, I’ve just been offered a bit of a possibly tempting lure by a friend in the salvage trade of a 997 GT2 which unfortunately is a Cat D needing repaired. It is apparently only lightly panel damaged though he doesn’t yet have the car in yet to give me a proper description of all the affected areas. As I have no experience of damaged cars at all I’d welcome any help or advice from some of the very knowledgeable folks on here on how best to go about repairing and putting this car back on the road, and some of the potential pitfalls I might encounter. Where do I start? Should I use a quality local bodyshop to do the work or would it be best for future resale purposes if I went through a Porsche specialist? I know it will never be worth the same as an undamaged car but it may be the only way I’ll ever be able to get one. Also, are there problems when it comes to insuring repaired Cat D cars? Any sensible advice would be much appreciated. Is it yellow?

agtlaw said: Is it yellow? Cat D not flat pack ! Edited by keep it lit on Wednesday 25th June 08:23

A "light panel / bumper damage only" 997 GT2.

keep it lit said: agtlaw said: Is it yellow? Cat D not flat pack ! Edited by keep it lit on Wednesday 25th June 08:23

agtlaw said: Is it yellow? No, white.

If it's light panel damage it could be a cheap way of getting into a GT2, as long as it doesn't need much in the way of parts and just needs a bit of bodywork. But you need to ensure that the finished car has cost you all in approx 30% less than a non cat D GT2, otherwise it is really not worth the effort. Salvage yards tend to ask relatively high prices for prestige damaged cars. The car will always be worth approx 30% less than non- cat D, (even if it is just the bumper!). Insurance wise the same thing applies, the premiums may be the same as non-cat d but in the event of a total loss the payout will be approx 30% less. Some insurers don't insure cat D, but most do & they probably won't even mention the car is on the register (and will be settled as such). The only way the car will stack up financially is if it really is light damage (cat d sometimes is, sometimes isn't), doesn't need hardly any parts, and you use a good Porsche experienced body shop rather than Porsche Approved one as they tend to charge the earth. Good luck, post up some pics when you see it, I'm sure you will know the instant you see it whether you want to take it on.

Jibaro said: If it's light panel damage it could be a cheap way of getting into a GT2, as long as it doesn't need much in the way of parts and just needs a bit of bodywork. But you need to ensure that the finished car has cost you all in approx 30% less than a non cat D GT2, otherwise it is really not worth the effort. Salvage yards tend to ask relatively high prices for prestige damaged cars. The car will always be worth approx 30% less than non- cat D, (even if it is just the bumper!). Insurance wise the same thing applies, the premiums may be the same as non-cat d but in the event of a total loss the payout will be approx 30% less. Some insurers don't insure cat D, but most do & they probably won't even mention the car is on the register (and will be settled as such). The only way the car will stack up financially is if it really is light damage (cat d sometimes is, sometimes isn't), doesn't need hardly any parts, and you use a good Porsche experienced body shop rather than Porsche Approved one as they tend to charge the earth. Good luck, post up some pics when you see it, I'm sure you will know the instant you see it whether you want to take it on. Sincere thanks for taking the time to post that Jibaro, there's a lot of very useful advice there. I'll put up pics once I get them.

Just because a car is classified as CAT D doesn't mean it requires a lot of work, the insurer may have decided it was cheaper just to cut their losses and pay out rather than repair. There's a myriad of reasons why a car can be classed as CAT D. Your best outcome is that there's 'on costs' to the claim (such as rental car charges, legal fees, 3rd party repair costs, etc). These, added to costs of repairing the car may have pushed the value of the total cost of the claim way more rather than disposing of the car and giving the policyholder a cheque for the value of the car pre-accident. If that is the case you could well be onto a 'winner', just go in with your eyes open and find out as much as you can about the car before you take it on.

GreatPretender said: I'd wager that the cost of professional repair plus the purchase price would be close enough to the entry fee for a straight car. Moreover, a straight car will likely retain most if not all of its vlaue at resale; not so the Cat D. It's financial suicide in my opinion So wouldn't market forces drive the purchase price down until the maths worked? Or are there just a lot of stupid buyers about or unsold Cat Ds?

Hi I worked at Porsche approved Bodyshop ( possibly soon to return to another) and I'am currently an engineer for an insurance co. To be cat d it means cost of repairs is less than market value of the vehicle. It can be cat d as someone has said because of the time it will be off the road against hire cost etc although this can't be added to a repair cost it can be considered and may render a vehicle a constructive total loss hence the cat d status. Which means the damage may be light. All insurance companies have agreed salvage rates for the various catorgories A B C D and X. And depending on their deals will dictate at what point the vehicle becomes a total loss eg 60% of its market value etc? So it naturally follows that if a vehicle is worth £100 it would need a repair cost of at least £60k to write it off. Now if a GT2 were to require a large repair I would image the owner would want it repaired correctly at a Porsche Approved repairer. These repairs will have a labour rate significantly higher than a non approved repairer due to the investment required in porsche tooling, training etc . Many panel replacements on a porsche require the vehicle to be mounted on a jig with brackets, ever porsche approved shop has these brackets. Having not repaired any Porsches at non approved repairers I don't know if these brackets are available outside of the network I suspect not. Hence it needs to be repaired at PCABR . Following Porsche repair method a front tub requires jig mounting to be fitted correctly. Bearing in mind the GT2 is a missile correct body alignment is critical to correct suspension alignment and handling etc check the vehicle very carefully many parts are bespoke to the GT2 The company I work when valuing cars that have been a previous total loss deduct 20% from its value when working out its market value.

Hi I worked at Porsche approved Bodyshop ( possibly soon to return to another) and I'am currently an engineer for an insurance co. To be cat d it means cost of repairs is less than market value of the vehicle. It can be cat d as someone has said because of the time it will be off the road against hire cost etc although this can't be added to a repair cost it can be considered and may render a vehicle a constructive total loss hence the cat d status. Which means the damage may be light. All insurance companies have agreed salvage rates for the various catorgories A B C D and X. And depending on their deals will dictate at what point the vehicle becomes a total loss eg 60% of its market value etc? So it naturally follows that if a vehicle is worth £100 it would need a repair cost of at least £60k to write it off. Now if a GT2 were to require a large repair I would image the owner would want it repaired correctly at a Porsche Approved repairer. These repairs will have a labour rate significantly higher than a non approved repairer due to the investment required in porsche tooling, training etc . Many panel replacements on a porsche require the vehicle to be mounted on a jig with brackets, ever porsche approved shop has these brackets. Having not repaired any Porsches at non approved repairers I don't know if these brackets are available outside of the network I suspect not. Hence it needs to be repaired at PCABR . Following Porsche repair method a front tub requires jig mounting to be fitted correctly. Bearing in mind the GT2 is a missile correct body alignment is critical to correct suspension alignment and handling etc check the vehicle very carefully many parts are bespoke to the GT2 The company I work when valuing cars that have been a previous total loss deduct 20% from its value when working out its market value.

otp said: Hi I worked at Porsche approved Bodyshop ( possibly soon to return to another) and I'am currently an engineer for an insurance co. To be cat d it means cost of repairs is less than market value of the vehicle. It can be cat d as someone has said because of the time it will be off the road against hire cost etc although this can't be added to a repair cost it can be considered and may render a vehicle a constructive total loss hence the cat d status. Which means the damage may be light. All insurance companies have agreed salvage rates for the various catorgories A B C D and X. And depending on their deals will dictate at what point the vehicle becomes a total loss eg 60% of its market value etc? So it naturally follows that if a vehicle is worth £100 it would need a repair cost of at least £60k to write it off. Now if a GT2 were to require a large repair I would image the owner would want it repaired correctly at a Porsche Approved repairer. These repairs will have a labour rate significantly higher than a non approved repairer due to the investment required in porsche tooling, training etc . Many panel replacements on a porsche require the vehicle to be mounted on a jig with brackets, ever porsche approved shop has these brackets. Having not repaired any Porsches at non approved repairers I don't know if these brackets are available outside of the network I suspect not. Hence it needs to be repaired at PCABR . Following Porsche repair method a front tub requires jig mounting to be fitted correctly. Bearing in mind the GT2 is a missile correct body alignment is critical to correct suspension alignment and handling etc check the vehicle very carefully many parts are bespoke to the GT2 The company I work when valuing cars that have been a previous total loss deduct 20% from its value when working out its market value. Thanks for that, this is the sort of advice I was looking for so I know exactly what I'm maybe getting in to. I'm going to see the car next Tuesday with a friend in the bodywork trade but I got a very basic rough idea of the obvious panel damage via a phone call yesterday with the salvage dealer. Looks like the car has spun off the road and all 4 corners have been fairly lightly dinged so its going to need a few panels and a rear bumper at least. Roof, bonnet, windscreen, doors spoiler all okay. Anyone suggest places to buy panels from or where to look? Are any GT2 panels the same as other Porsche models? Any help very welcome!

teile.com Don't know where they get them, but they have everything! New panels, used panels, painted unpainted, you name it. And they are pretty good, I bought my wheels from them and I was able to haggle with them and eventually they shipped them to me as part of the price (although they were on the German ebay at the time. If you are ordering enough I'm sure they will be flexible. They mainly cater for Germans (teile meaning parts in German) although they are based in Poland. And they speak English. Edited by Isysman on Friday 4th July 04:57

I have repaired an older cat d Porsche and it didn't look like a write off to me. Then you price a front bumper with new Porsche parts. At the time, £400 for outer skin, £400 inner bar, £80 / light (x4) etc etc I got a second hand one all parts, immaculate for £250 - so it is possible to see where savings can be made, just ensure its under that 20% target. The other way to tackle it, is that it will never be a 'good' straight one, so why try. Make it something you can use / track, rip the interior out, put aftermarket alloys on, fibreglass / carbon fibre wings - no respray just wrap etc.

Any news on this car, did you see it?

How many GT2s don't have some "history"?

Isysman said: Any news on this car, did you see it? Going to see it later today.

NomduJour said: How many GT2s don't have some "history"? I'd expect quite a few. Plenty of them are owned by polishers (some of whom drive with conviction, but many just do civilised motoring and enjoy them that way). I would say that appreciably fewer GT2s were storied than GT3s.....

Anything?

Isysman said: teile.com Don't know where they get them, but they have everything! New panels, used panels, painted unpainted, you name it. And they are pretty good, I bought my wheels from them and I was able to haggle with them and eventually they shipped them to me as part of the price (although they were on the German ebay at the time. If you are ordering enough I'm sure they will be flexible. They mainly cater for Germans (teile meaning parts in German) although they are based in Poland. And they speak English. Edited by Isysman on Friday 4th July 04:57 Thanks for the tip....agree website and prices look great.......

I'm not going for it, its needing more work doing to it than I was hoping. N|ever having done anything like this before I'm just not comfortable taking on something of this magnitude, especially so on a rare Porsche. Really disappointed as I'd have loved a 997 GT2. Looks like I'll just have to wait a bit longer and buy a straight one! Anybody thinking of selling one later this year?

Did you get any photos?

Is there any photos of car / damage ? Possible reg no?

IainRS said: I'm not going for it, its needing more work doing to it than I was hoping. N|ever having done anything like this before I'm just not comfortable taking on something of this magnitude, especially so on a rare Porsche. Alternatively, the business case of repairing a CatD/C car is probably strongest on a rare Porsche, as the demand is likely to be high in the future despite its history (if the repair is done properly and is properly documented). For example, I'd happily buy a CatC/CatD 993 GT2 if the repair was done properly and was documented.