AOS labor time

Good morning everybody, i have a question for those who have experienced this before. I am having the AOS replaced in my 99 Carrera 2 manual transmission and the shop called me yesterday to tell me they want to charge for 9 hour labor after they told me initially it was going to be 3 hour labor. Does it sound right or is it too much? What should i do? Thank you.

having NO experience with this job prior to doing it - and doing at home, on the floor.... it took me less than 9 hours going in from the rear. I have been told some shops are charging ~4 hours +/- an hour... 9 seems really steep

It depends how they are going about doing the job. The book says to remove the intake and do it that way. In the past I have removed the manual transmission and did everything from the back. I think anything over 6.50 hours is to much IMHO. I would ask them to explain what they are removing to gain access to the AOS. I can tell you right now, for me at least, I can have the trans. out of the car way faster than pulling the intake. Trans. R&R pays 3.50 warranty the AOS is .60. So if I were to give you an estimate I would have 3.50 + .60 x 1.5 = 6.15 hours. The intake r&r pays about the same, I come up with 3.20 (warranty time) to pull the intake.

Find a better shop.

When I did mine a few months ago I pulled the complete intake and it took me, a amateur, about 7 hours start to finish. It's a complete pain in the *** and I would probably just drop the motor if I had to do it again. Still, 9 hours for a shop it too much. BTW, I did it in my Spec Boxster and it took about 45 minutes....

Dude, They are hosing you. With the tranny out it is less than 30 minutes. I can jack around and get the tranny out in less than 1.5 hours. Reinstallation of same is about the same. Figure 5 hours max with lots of BSing and beer drinking. If I was on the clock, itd be way quicker. Keep in mind, i'm a hobbyist. I have worked on cars for several decades, but not a professional by any means.

Thank you for the input guys, you all were right, i called Sunset Porsche in PDX OR and they said 2.5 to 3 hours so i went back to the shop and told them what i was told at Porsche and they said - yeah, maybe like 4 - 4.25 hrs, still a little high for a shop that works on Porsches, i think next time i might just end up taking it somewhere else. BTW parts were there already at the shop and i stopped by around 10:00am and i havent received a call from the shop, this is lame i got my car in friday afternoon last week so they could start working on my car monday morning and the car is still sitting there on the lift wtc??!!!

If it were me I'd be waiting for the call that it ended up taking more time due to complications (vacation house payments). Most cars have shop manuals that list work times for jobs done. I also thought the stated times in the listing of times were the max billing.

One thing for sure at my indy shop - be prepared to WAIT like a week for a 2 hour job.... That's just the nature of some shops. Glad to hear they came down 50% on the labor!?!?!?

I paid 8 hrs for a Tip at an Independent shop. But he did suggest I replace several worn components while he was in there, and he didn't charge me labor for those.

Well, bad news, today the shop decided to call me to tell me they couldnt figure out how to get to the AOS without going for an 11hr job, this is ridiculous,specially after one whole week doing nothing on my car, i assumed that when you schedule a car and they say they have an opening, they are suppose to start working on the car when the opening is available. I am picking up my car in 30 minutes and probably never going back there again.

Gordon, Do i need any special tools to replace the AOS myself, i am really frustrated at this poin and i might venture and i will try and replace it myself. Thank you.

11 hours is ridiculous, but a full day's worth of work isn't out of whack either. I don't think you want to do this yourself. I hear it's a pain in the ****.

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Get your Porsche out of there. Nice call on your part, find someone else to do your AOS. GL

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Nothing special, but lot of them. Take a good look at the intake before thinking about doing this and make sure you have the tools for everything you can see. Why not take it up to Sunset or better yet to Steve Weiner?...

Gordon, My friend recommended Eric Jones here in Glenwood OR, so i picked up my car today and its at Eric's shop right now, he mention he might just drop off the whole engine/transmission. I will keep you posted. BTW the previous shop was actually very nice in the end and didnt charge me for the scanning,nor the lost time ;-) and 2 trips top hve the car towed.

I'm going to attempt to do mine this coming week. Had planned going through the intake area. The two bolts to take it out are easy as pie with the wheel removed and so are some of the lower lines. Problem is you can't see any of the upper stuff to remove, and some of the clamps are crimped. I plan on removing the drivers upper intake and dropping the engine off the mounts till it hits the crossmember and that should gain enough access to do the work from what Ive read. My AOS is leaking antifreeze from somewhere and that is why I'm replacing it, it may just be one of the clamps but has to be removed to fix that pretty much anyway. And after 76k i'm sure it's time. I may do a write up since there is not a good one anywhere that I can find with pictures.

Gordon, Pardon my ignorance, but where an who is Steve Weiner? it would be to havehis name in file as reference for the next time (knock on wood) that i have to have my 996 repaired. Thanks

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I am sure a lot of guys would appreciate a good, detailed write up, with pics where appropriate and needed.

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Steve owns and operates Rennsport Systems in Portland since 1976. He's as knowledgable about Porsches as you'll find anywhere, and he's in your backyard (well sort of).... http://www.rennsportsystems.com/ Steve is one of this forum occasionally and is always helpful and patient willing to answer questions. I think this thread sums up how most of use here feel about his presence and contributions.... https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...t=steve+weiner

Okay, about 1.75 hours in and I have the upper intake about off. The 6 intake bolts are easy except the last one, it really really sucks. It takes the correct extensions and sockets and a little bit of luck to reach. Anyway that is not the big stumbling block, the rear crossover tube has 4 hose clamps. They are facing the front of the car. Anybody want to chime in hear about how you got them loose. Also I have already broken two lines. One vacuum line just busted when I moved it, and a small water line near the alternator has a plastic coupling that just broke when I tried to pull the hose off.

my clamps faced forward too... I used lowered the motor to gain access....look up from the muffler tips and there are 2 really big obvious nuts... a jack under the motor and you can lower it all the way down to the cross member at the tranny after removing the nuts... also the clamps rotate one direction with effort... dont remember which way but I was able to turn them till I had access - and a 1/4 ratchet set with a LOT of extentions saves you from reaching all the way in there... they will also come in handy for the actual AOS bolts... you can remove them from the wheel well very easy, but IIRC I had to jack the motor up or down to get a straight shot at them.... good going, are you planning to replace the orings on the intake? I did .... local dealer was a rip off....$10 ea!! one more thing... put some bright colored rags in the intake holes so if you drop anything it doesnt go in there AND the bright color will remind you to remove before re-installing the intake

I went through the intake side, without dropping the motor.... it sucked! took me 8 hours with BSing in between. old vs new aos intake off the engine

Ferd was the one who gave me the encouragement to tackle the job... I followed his advise except did lower the motor for a good 4 inches of extra room and i replaced the bellows clamp because I had hurt my had about that time and after 2 hours of screaming at that damn stock spring loaded thing someone suggested I replace it and 30 seconds later it was on

How long did it take you to do the AOS removal and replacement Ed, and would you recomend dropping the motor?TIA

Lowering the motor - not dropping it out, YES Took me about 6 hours? I did it in two days and took my time, didn't watch the clock (except on that damn bellows clamp!) If I were to do it again I might opt to pull the tranny if I had the room. Its a heavy item and access is still very tight to the AOS but you have an opportunity to view the IMS / RMS and maybe decide on the clutch while doing the job E

Well, my 996 is back and running again with no smoke at all after having the AOS replaced... :-)

Time? Are ya happy? Would you do it again? Tips?

It was at the shop for one day, i am happy the car is back for sure and glad it wasnt anything else, the way the car smoked was unbelievable, in 5 seconds you would think the car had caught on fire. Obviously I didnt do it myself,like Gordon said " you might need lots of tools " and i didnt know if i had everything that i needed plus the time to do it, i handed it to the experts. The only tip would be...I really would like to learn how to work on this cars, they make me feel somehow intimidated. I wouldnt like my car to break again :-)

OK - I confused this thread with another DIY AOS job.... well the good news is it is fixed, and that you "want" to work on your car. The AOS is fairly complicated job, but by all means not so bad that someone with time and tools could not attempt. I think a good starting place would be an oil change or a brake pad swap. - Removing the air box and checking your belt and pulleys is another very simple task that will halp gain some confidence. The other thing that was a big help for me was just jacking the car and removing the wheels (even if just to clean the wells) - it all builds your level of comfort. Tools take time and money to aquire - start with a basic "set" of quality tools and a small box to put them in. Each job you undertake, buy a couple more and in time you will have the things you need. Most jobs dont take 1000 tools, but the ones that you need come in small sets so you end up with quite a few tools. All said and done when I got dont with my AOS I bet I could have held all the tools used in one hand....(except the jack and stands)

Yeah, I kinda highjacked the thread. I am 2.5 hours in, AOS is ready to be unbolted, all top lines off, much easier to just break plastic connections off AOS water lines then try to undo crimp clamp with it connected. Hardest part of the job so far was the rear intake bolt, and the 2 clamps for the rear crossover tube aimed to the front of the car. In the 1.5 inch of space I was able to hold a 7mm wrench with my fingertips and slowly undo the clamps. This is where lowering the motor would help as well as the rear bolt. I have one lower line left as well as the two bolts, and I assume the red barbed end goes into the block, or is it another line? I guess my next move is to undo the bolts, raise it up and undo the bottom line? I was surprised to find the vacuum operated flapper door in the rear crossover tube. Looks like 6 to 8 hours may be the total time. Will keep everyone posted. I have taken a lot of pictures and will do a write up of some sort. Andy

the red piece sort of pushes onto (not really into ) a hole in the case... that part is wierd because I never had the "feeling" like it "went in" - took me a while to agree in my head that "in" wasnt very far at all... there is the bellows clamp on the bottom. access to the bolts can be had thru the drivers wheel well with wheel removed and long extentions. Bellows clamp from the tranny side on your back, there is one route that offers a straight shot in there I believe cutting the old bellow out is the agreed easiest aproach, then take off the clamp - be careful cutting as there are a couple wires /lines in the area

Okay, Just finished. Total time about 6.5- 7 hours. About an hour was spent just cleaning parts, the inside and outside of the main intake, the t-body crossover tube and the t-body itself of all the accumulated oil residue. I would say a good independent who has done this before could do this in much less time, but they are not going to clean everything as they go. If you have your trans out for any reason please have them fix this at the same time as it would be dumb not to do this as the part is $104 from Suncoast, my car has 76k. Here are some observations that I have not read anywhere and may be specific to my AOS failure since mine was coolant related, but I am also assuming it was internally blocked. I am going to cut it open to see. 1. My air injection pump no longer whines like a supercharger, apparently the AOS was blocked causing it to either cavitate or be under back pressure. So if you are experiencing a loud air pump it may be the AOS. This was a total surprise. 2. If you haven't changed the plastic water coupling for the AOS near the alternator you need to. This thing disintegrates like nothing else I have ever seen. It literally turns to dust when you try to remove whats left from inside the hoses. My opinion is this part is going to cause more and more trouble by bursting as these cars get older. If I keep the car a long time I'm swapping to brass. I did not lower the engine to gain more access, but it could end up being necessary depending on the size of your hands or available tools and no doubt it could make things easier. You have to have a lot of patience and dexterity to hold a 7mm wrench in a 1 inch size opening on the backside to undo the big clamps on the rear crossover tube. The hardest part of this job by far is the last intake bolt. You have to make up the perfect set of 10mm socket and extension and wish it on the bolt. If you have ever seen a vet with their hand up a cows ****, that is what its like because of the distance to the bolt, the limited room to work, and the inabilty to see what you are doing. The torque spec seems to be 7.5 ft/lbs for the intake bolts. I was able to do the first 5, I just couldn't get my 1/4 drive inch/torque wrench to fit with my available extensions, it was either too low or high to fit. Parts needed including the AOS, 1 gallon of Peak 50/50, 1 worm clamp for lower AOS bellows, 3 small worm clamps for 2 water lines on AOS and 1 at the water coupling by the alternator, the 3 intake gaskets, the t-body oring, and that stupid plastic coupling I referred to earlier. I recommend the t-body oring as it seems to have a memory and was flat as a pancake inside the housing. The new one stuck out a bunch after installation for a good sealing surface. Big thanks to Ivangene who helped along the way on this thread and other previous posts of his. I will try and do a full write up for everybody to enjoy. This pic shows where mine was leaking, apparently the plastic cracked at the bottom on the round part letting the coolant slowly leak out. It had been doing this quite a long time from what I can tell. This pic shows how you have to place the wormgear clamp on the new aos s

Good pics and info, thanks. Must feel good to have that job behind you.

Oh yes, problem is we just got 3.5 inches of snow yesterday most we have gotten here since 1996. We don't get much snow here. So best I could do was back her out of the garage and let it warm up. Now i'm going to have to wait till the roads dry up and all the salt goes away. If any of those AOS water hoses leak I'm gonna cry.

I feel another thread documentary by Shark Attack on its way for AOS.... I actually soooo dont want to do this job.

Are you replacing your AOS due to mileage on your porsche Kyle, or are you having smoking issues at start up?

Kyle, be careful of the worm clamps, the rubber bellow is thin and the clamp may cut into the rubber. If you can re-use the OEM clamp.... it is way better suited for the job.

Kyle, going in the front door or backdoor??? I went in the back door (thru engine bay) Its an easy job, just time consuming. It wasnt nearly as bad as I thought it would be though.. you can do it......OLD MAN !!

Ill be going in the back door..... Still kinda Po'd at you for not telling me to do this when I had the tranny out.... Joking... Im a republican, I dont blame others for my scewups...

Took me 13 hours on my Tiptronic I used to have. Firggin' PITA! I even knew every detail before going in too. Manuals are far easier from what I was told.

Took about 2 hours on an MK2 car last time, which was significantly easier than the MK1 set up. Did not remove transaxle (manual) or the intake manifold. I can understand if a shop wanted to charge to remove the manifold, and I'd imagine ~4 hours to be a reasonable rate. The way we did it was from under the car, breaking one of the small coolant lines off of the old AOS for ease of removal (forward facing top line). For reference, the AOS was 90k+ miles/factory original and diaphragm not torn. I may have pictures saved somewhere if anybody is interested. Anyway, smoke issue was overfilled crankcase on that particular car. On an MK2 with manual transmission, removing the transaxle wouldn't help in any way.