ROW 030 suspension screwup -please advise

I took my car (03 C2) to the dealer for a baseline service. While there I asked for a quote for the ROW M030 suspension (I did not strictly define this, I guess, since in my mind there was only the 030 ROW kit - strut, spring, bushings). The advisor calls the next day and says $1800 mounted. I figured, since it's $1100 in parts for the kit, it sounds fair for the labor and alignment... I tell him to go ahead on the phone. (cue ominous music) I picked up my car, and upon reading the invoice carefully at home, I realize all they did was install 4x ROW 030 springs, that is IT ! So now I have stock shocks with ROW springs ( which as far as I can tell is a bad mix, you are supposed to have at least US 030 struts for this to work), so no M030 struts, no sway bars or whatever else. Plus potentially mismatched stuff now ! The kicker: All the alignment work ($250) + Road force tire balance ($135), and labor to undo the original springs ($895) is now for nothing if I want this fixed, and it would have been practically the same expense to do it right.... I am not sure I can live with the current results either - it's a bit crashy and vibrates more, though maybe I'll get used to it, and it's only 10mm lower, barely noticeable... I'd be Ok with the 10mm only if -at least - I had the whole M030 experience and criper suspension, but all I got was a bill for $2100 (incl $500 service, but still), mismatched suspension and 10mm less ! Crap !!! The advisor I talked to was gone, they are usually pretty good guys, so I'll have to see what the deal is tomorrow, but I am not exactly holding my breath there - "hey greg, it's Ok,we'll eat the $1000 of labor because we misunderstood" - yeah, right... Damn damn damn !!!

i think you need to talk to the guys and tell them how the hell are they charging you sooooo much for just springs...... maybe they messed up......... GL

You got f'ed by the dealer. I would do a chargeback on the transaction if you put it on your credit card. That is shady as hell.

First thing you need to do is talk to the GM of the dealership and get this resolved ASAP! If you asked about the RoWM030 kit and did NOT say "RoWM030 springs only" then they can either refund your entire cost and remove the offending springs.....or finish the kit for the CORRECT price for the entire kit at no additional charge for labor. That is ALL that would be acceptable to me and something that my dealer (back in Vegas) wouldn't even have argued with. I had an awesome SA that really took care of me. I paid $1K on the button for the ENTIRE kit (shocks, springs, sways) and install/alingment was $650. You were taken and should NOT stand for it.

I talked to the service guy this morning, who's going to talk to his manager and present me with options... They doubt they can eat the 8h of labor though,s o tjhat sounds ominous! Let's see... I was OK with them finishing the job, me paying for the additional parts, the right springs and sway bars but at no additional labor, but they did not exactly come out excited with this idea... Well, we'll see ! The trick part is that I share the blame. When he called (no paper trace) and said it could be done for $1800 - since that is market price for installing the full kit - it did not occur to me to question that it might be only part of it.... I should have been more careful ! LEsson learned, I mean, it beats a polyp up your colon and all, but I am pissed... If this does not get arranged I will contact the boss of the dealership. If tha tworks it probably will mean the end of me using them though, kinda like returning food at a restaurant - you don't ever want to do that, trust me ;-)

Confused, you were quoted $1800 for the FULL kit but got the springs only? By the way, it is NOWHERE close to 8H of labor.

My local dealer wanted $1200 to intall my ROW M030 kit which I purchased there for ~$1100. I ended up doing it myself and going there only for the $250 alignment (they did wash the car for free though). The job took me about 5 hours and mine is a C4 which involves a little more work up front. What happened to Greg is just wrong. Was this done in Tampa or Sarasota?

I'd like to hear more on this. BTW, sorry for your problems. Seems to me, if you keep a level head (i.e. no screaming and threatening) then they should work something out for you. Good luck. Michael

i have heard it is a full day of labor (Dealer and Indie) to replace suspension,alignment, etc.. is this not the case?

Greg, yeah, I used to live in Tampa too. What dealership, out of curiosity? P.S. - you've taught me a valuable lesson too...always check the estimate in writing before requesting any service. Thanks, and sorry for you troubles. Hope it's resolved soon and to your satisfaction.

Reeves in Tampa - The silly part is that up till now I had nothing but praise for them... Well, breaking news: They told me to go buy the whole kit because they cannot match that price, bring it in. They will charge me 1/2 the labor and refund me my springs. So essentially I will pay nothing for the work, but I gotta buy the kit ! It's not great but it's the best it's gonna get ! it ends up with me paying 50% more than normal overall for the labor...

FYI- both dealers in my area (southwest MI) quoted $1000 to install RoW M030 kit (springs, shocks, sway bars and bushings) , including alignment. Both quoted 8 hrs. labor.

sounds like a fair compromise. still a shame to hear about

8 hours is probably what the book says, but they book is very liberal in it probably allows for breaks and taking their time, they can probably do it in half the time if the tech has done it before. But at those prices, I would look into the PSS9's....I paid $1400 for the kit at $450 for install with 2 alignments....the kit was a special deal, but even at $2000 for the parts, labor will be less, easier to install and you will get a better ride and adjustability along with better handling than stock....just another option....

I'm sitting and watching this hread, as I'm planning on doing a ROW M030 install next year - can you tell me why the labor and install is less? I would not have expected that. If there's an advantage on that front and I can find the kit at the right price I might go that direction, but I'd like to understand your comment. I hadn't expected there to be a labor advantage.

Guys, the kit is $1K shipped from Sunset and the install should be NO MORE than about $600. Anything more than that on EITHER and you start paying more than you have to.

wow, thats insane i did the install myself and it took me 4-5hrs and i did to slow and carefully i can see it happening tho, i've had my share of horror stories at the dealer...

Yes...simply, coilovers are easier and faster to install than installing seperate springs and shocks. PSS9's are coilovers only, no sway bars. Also the rates I got were not from the dealer but a Porsche tuning shop that specializes in upgrades. The tech actually used to be a head Porsche tech before opening his own shop and probaly more experienced than 99% of any Porsche dealer techs.

Thanks for the clarification! I thought that the PSS9's were overkill for me, but I'll now do some more research.

as perfect as the ROW030 is for my purpose and roads i still have a little voice telling me that i should have gone with the PSS9s, no regret but if i manage to wear the current ROW suspension out i'll be going to the Bilsteins... one thing tho newport, the sways are a help regardless of the struts /coilovers.

Overkill.....hmmm....well I find it a funny thing to say about a 300+ HP car with a top speed of 180 mph....lol...Most are intimidated by the word "adjustable" and would rather someone TELL them what the car should be set to. But in germany, the roads and demads are VERY different than the US....so for me a suspension that I set what I wanted was not overkill, but ESSENTIAL. I get great handling and a very smooth ride all on 19's....the way I want it. I could set it stiffer, have better handling, but a more harsh ride, but thats something I can set in 5 minutes....if I go to the twisties or to the track...easy adjustment....but for normal highway driving, its perfect. Thats something the ROW M030 cannot do. I will do adjustable sways though...again, I can have the car the way I want it, not what an engineer in Germany thinks....california highways are VERY different from the Autobahn.....

Put like that I can see your point. Nevertheless, you nailed my thought exactly - I don't track my car, so figured that I didn't need to be able to adjust the ride. The main reason for me doing the ROW M030 is to lower the suspension a little and regain some high speed stability once I do the partial aerokit install over the holidays.

By the way....no matter what you go with, you probably cant go wrong....my fear in the ROW M030 was that it wouldnt be low enough for me....I like my cars LOW.....its still a tad high for my tastes visually although everyone tells me its perfect....but I woould scrape too much if I went any lower...the cool part about the PSS9 is that I can set my own height....again....what I want....

Hmm... so I can adjust height and ride stuffness and if I look around I might be able to get a price comparable to ROW M030 and pay less for installation? Sounds too good to be true. I'll keep this in mind. Thanks for the guidance. I know someone who is planning on doing a PSS9 install over the winter, I'll ask him how it goes.

Yes...but height adjustmetns require alignments to be done as you are changing suspension geometry....shock dampening (stiffness) does not...This is why the shop I used always gives you 2 alignments with the install....one the day of the install...the next about a month later so you can have the car settle, make any adjustments to the height again, and do a final alignment.

Ahh! Thanks for the reminder. I knew about the alignment required for the suspension upgrade, bur it hadn't occured to me yet that it would be the same with adjustments to the PSS9s. In reality I'd probably set the height around 20-30mm lower, then leave it. Adjusting the ride stiffness would be cool though. I know that when I first bought the car it struck me how hard he ride was... now I don't notice it, so I guess that means i can make it harder.

did you guys have to redo the camber with the M030 or the Pss9s?

PS from the thread starter, for the sake of the search: I found out why the car felt like hammered crap with the stock shocks and the 030 springs - the tech who did the alignment/balance pumped the tires up to factory specs and above. Hot, I was driving on 41 PSI front and 49 rear !!!! Balloons !!! On my regular 34-37 or so it's much much better ! I'm still going forward with the dealer "deal" (irony) and finishing the job though. And to those who asked above, no, ROW 030 is not low enough. Not by a long shot. But I was after a solution that was factory tested, I am not willing to futz with adjustables - that's just me.

good luck....let us know how it comes out...and about "futzing" with adjustables...once it was setup, I have not "futz"ed with it in 80k miles.....Its the height I want, with 19's , handles better than stock and the ride is better than stock....thats the beauty of adjustables...its how I want it....and who do you think makes the factory OEM shocks?

Newport: How you adjust the ride firmness? Which setting do you use, and how often have you changed it, if at all?

there is a **** on top of the struts...you turn the ****...thats it....I have it on 6 frony and 7 rear..pretty soft...I am tempted to move it to 5 front 6 rear....I have NEVER changed it. Although it takes about 10 minutes total....I told my installer what I wanted and he was very knowledgeable about them....so he knew what to set it to.

Newport, good for you... I am in no way criticizing the adjustables. I just meant I did not want to bother with experimenting, In fact I agree the 030 is not low enough and your setup is probably better. I just did not want to bother, that's all...

I do laugh at the 8 hour labor, as I can do it in 2.5 hours with air tools and not on a lift( floor jacks only). As far as the debate of ROW or PSS9 there is no right or wrong, it depends on what the user wants out of their car.

>I do laugh at the 8 hour labor, as I can do it in 2.5 hours with air tools and not on a lift Damn, I was computing the cost of flying you here, but nah... Not quite worth it ;-)

Newport, would you mind telling us who your tuning shop is? I work in your part of the world, so I could be very interested in getting a recommeded installer.

Lucent...talk to Arling.... http://www.lucentmotor.com/