Oil ingestion, what happens if I dont do anything?

When I track my car I get lots of oil ingestion, at some turns during the track, and also at the pits after re starting. Its like a joke for everyone when they see this. I know there is an oil separator that might fix it, but seems complicated to install and needs lots of mods. I dont care if people laugh and there is no harm when my CS is smoking, but can it cause damage? Has anyone seen damage to the motor because of this issue? Im tracking my car once a month, learning more and going faster every time, I ran stock tires and everything except for Fabspeed catback, Evo intake and softronic software. Im thinking of putting sway bars, but this might increase the lateral Gs and worsen the oil ingestion.

If this happens once or twice I don't think it is a big deal, but on an ongoing basis oil ingestion is not good for the engine. Oil ingestion can lead to hydrolock which is NOT good. Hydrolock is when liquid enters the cylinder on the intake stroke and since liquid can't be compressed it prevents a full stroke from being obtained. This can lead to bent connecting rods which can be very expensive to repair. Check out some of these threads for some more information there have been several threads on oil ingestion: http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-complaints/20457-severe-smoke.html http://www.planet-9.com/news-items/23939-smokeem-if-you-gotem-petition-porsche.html http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-competition/23771-copious-oil-smoke-exhaust-after-ax-runs.html

Sooner or later your motor will crater.... hey that rhymes, but yeah if you keep it up your motor will fail it is just a matter of time... I suggest the motorsports separator if you are going to do a lot of track time.

Does anyone know if the new Cayman has this fixed? ________________________ "Sir! We're surrounded!" - "Excellent! We can shoot in any direction!" A good car will get you from point A to point B. A great car... will just get you into trouble!

My understanding is that the new DFI enging redesign solves this problem, since I remember seeing an engine test stand that tips the engine to some extreme angles while it is running, specifically to test for the oil ingestion problem

The new Cayman doesn't have DFI so it could have the same problem

It's the redesign of the engine, not the addition of DFI, that resolves the problem. The base Cayman gets the redesigned engine without DFI, but most of us are assuming that it won't have the problem. Doesn't running the oil a bar or two below full pretty much resolve the issue? Or do people still get smoke even when running low oil?

Running the oil down a bit MAY help with the ingestion problem, but it will increase the chance of oil starvation (and failed rod bearings) if the oil pickup sucks air. The better solution is to install the improved VOS and a sump extension / windage tray. The improved VOS was developed (applied?) to solve this problem on the Koni Challenge cars that are based on the Carrera (non S) street car that use the same engine design. Cheers,

The big problem with the Motorsport oil separator is that it interferes with the secondary air pump. There is an article or thread somewhere on the site that shows the installation. Unfortunately for the time being it is the best solution to your problem in conjunction with an oil sump extension. We transplanted a Cayman S engine into a 986 race car and I should be able to get some good pics of the separator and the sump installed on the car next week it comes back from EPL after the final cold start tuning is complete. Unfortunately the pics won't do you too much good because the race car does not have secondary air injection.

Is the secondary air pump really needed? My limited understanding is that it slightly improves catalyst light off time at start and then does nothing but add weight.

Your understanding is correct. As to whether or not it is really needed, that depends on the intended use of the car. For use on public highways in the United States it is required by EPA regulation to be present. For track or AX use (off road) it is not required or needed.

The parasitic consumption comment is a little unfair since the pump only runs during the warm up phase. It is dead weight most of the time. The biggest issue for most owners is that with the pump unplugged you have a constant CEL for the secondary air system unless the ECU is reprogrammed to ignore it. Since this is not legal for road use it is an issue for street driven cars.

Here is a picture of the oil separator from the parts catalog. Couldn't you mount the bigger separator in a different location, and extend those hoses to the new location?

Yes, you could do that. That's a good idea. However, space is pretty tight in the engine compartment - I'm not sure where you'd put it and how you'd secure it. I'll take a look at that next time I'm working in the engine compartment.

OK, I just learned something..... Thanks... :beer: Is the air pump electric? Why was I thinking it was run from the belt? Looks like I'm all sorts of lost on this topic.

Yes it is electric. It does not need to be run by the accessory belt because it only runs during warm up. :burnout:

So what makes more sense as a solution, the Mantis Sport Oil Sump extension or the Motorsport VOS?

If you're a serious tracker - then do both. I do about 4 track days a year, and about 8 AX, and I have just done the VOS so far. When I go to sticky track tires (I'm running street tires so far) then I'll add the sump extension. YMMV, but I've been happy with this approach.

For AJK who started the thread and has the smoking issue the Motorsport VOS is a necessity. Personally I would do both. We hope to acquire a Cayman project car before the spring. When we do we'll be working on both of these problems ourselves, but for now our opinion is that the Motorsport VOS on a track car is a must and the Mantis sump extension kit is a good choice to help prevent possible oiling issues. We have direct experience with the Motorsport VOS and it definitely fixes that smoking problem.

Drew, Fort: Thanks for the clarification. I'll adopt the same strategy as Fort.

The separator that is being used was posted by Porsche "After Sales" on March 2, 2004. This was to be a fix instead of engine replacements for smoking. The problem is not the sump depth or the stock separator in itself yet how this engine was installed in the mid engine cars. The 996 separator is in the same location yet does not smoke as the Boxster/Cayman does. The reason being is that on heavy G turns the oil is shifted to the opposite side. The oil in the 996 is forced to bank 4-6 in a right hander while it is forced to bank 1-3 in the Boxster/Cayman . Most the tracks run in a clockwise configuration. This issue would apply partially to the 996 and not the Boxster/Cayman if the same tracks were run opposite. The pick up point for bank 1-3 and 4-6 are not in the same locations . Bank 1-3 is located at the top of the head just above the cams and chain housing ramp. When a Boxster/Cayman experiences this problem it is from the oil fallowing the chain housing up the ramp and directly into the separator breather pipe. The replacement separator changes the angles of intake at the separator itself. Power is gained from venting both sides of the engine or both heads in this engines configuration. Oil ingestion could also be resolved by simply plugging the breather for bank 1-3. The separator can be installed in pre 2003 Boxsters with just a couple other parts from Porsche also. The installation does not require the air pump to be removed, yet it does allow more room. The deep sump with the same given oil simply changes the oils angle of approach and does not fix the issue. The sump could be installed for an additional quart of oil however it is not required. The oil level was actually lowerd in the cars in the production years. Best Regards, Scott SLauson

That's good info, Scott, thanks. Please tell me more about plugging the breather for bank 1-3. Is this DIY? You mention that power is gained by venting both sides. Does this mean that power would be lost by plugging the vent on bank 1-3? How much? Noticeable? You say the cause is "oil fallowing the chain housing up the ramp and directly into the separator breather pipe." Would it be possible to make some simple change to this pipe or attached hose (see the picture I attached earlier), like lengthening the hose so that it can make a big loop up, then down, so the oil won't flow through it (like an inverse drip loop?)?

The line that goes to bank 1-3 would have to be blocked. Basically you could disconnect bank 1-3 at the separator and plug the line and reconnect it or disconnect the line and cap off the separators port for that line and the line etc. Basically you would be eliminating that line. Now the draw back is you would be venting totally from bank 4-6 to the crankcase. This would work however you should either vent from the center top of the block or from both sides etc. I will post if any desire on adding the separator to the pre 2003 cars , there is no Porsche release on this. Best, Scott Slauson

Will this problem be gone in the new DFI Engine? :crazy:

I would say yes it should be gone once again in the new DFI design. The Cayman and Boxster DFI is the same as what is in the 997 series 2 less the displacement. This engine uses a centralized separator while venting off of both banks. Porsche has design costs along with vendor contracts that do not allow for changes as we may think. The previous engine had obligations for 10 years that they had to work with. Best, Scott

God damn Scott. That's a lot of good information..... Thanks.... :cheers:

On the 986 Boxsters (at least the 2003 that is in the shop with the M96 /23 engine in it) the air pump is actually mounted to the chassis in the engine bay instead of on the engine making modifications or replacement of the air oil separator easier. Scott I know there are a number of 986 folks looking for breather solutions. It would be very helpful if you posted the necessary part numbers to retrofit the motorsport breather to the 986 and 996 engine.

Good info here guys, thanks. :cheers:

No problem I will post later on how it is added. Best, Scott

Scott, Did you post this information yet? Possibly somewhere else?

Well we can add two more of us who have had this problem with a PCA AX over the weekend. In one case, the smoke was so sudden and so bad while the car was on a run that people initially thought the engine was blown. In the other case, while waiting in line between runs, the car smoked so bad multiple people (all experienced PCA AXers) suggested pulling out of line. I am 100% stock except for Kumho Ecsta XS tires in a slightly different than OEM size - certainly not slicks or racing tires . I started the car today to give it a good wash down, and it's a good thing I had the garage door open or my neighbors would have thought the house was burning down when the smoke came billowing out the cracks! This is quite a sad state of affairs.

The solution is pretty straightforward - especially since the correct Porsche part number for the hose from the carnkcase to the VOS has now been estsablished. Order the parts, print out and study the article ( Installation of Improved Vapor Oil Separator ), and do the mod. It's not that hard - but it does take a fair bit of time. I agree that it's shameful that the owner has to do (or have done) this work if the car will be driven hard!!! But this problem can be solved.

Hi FF, I really applaud what you guys have done in sorting out a solution. My problem with this solution is twofold: This procedure is far beyond my own capabilities, so instead of a ~$500 solution, it would probably be more like ~$1500 or more. To a problem Porsche ought to fix. What does the installation of this mod do to future potential warranty claims? For instance, is there a potential to end up with a more problematic warranty situation if there is a future failure that may or may not be attributed to oil ingestion than if you just took your chances with a stock VOS? I think the first step is to take this to my dealer and let them know about my situation and hear what they say. Maybe there is a problem with the stock VOS that can be repaired/replaced under warranty. Then I guess I'll ponder the options. I think I need to change my vote about satisfaction with Porsche the company.

There's nothing wrong with your plan. I suggest you bring a copy of the Porsche Technical Service Bulletin ( Porsche Oil Ingestion Fix ) with you when you go to the dealer.