Running Carfax Reports for people.

Here is a thread from my old Cadillac V forum. http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...at-should.html That is a MODERATOR suggesting the OP give out the VIN and someone will Carfax it for him. Whenever someone needs a car checked out, they don't get the old "Your ripping off Carfax blah blah", like you get here. Not only that, when I asked for the VIN to be checked, a Caddy DEALER, on the V forum was more than happy to do it for me. I have never seen anyone on the V forum, which I consider to be the best, most professional auto forum on the net (it should be for $50 per year) , give anyone grief about it. I think helping people out with Carfax reports is something we should not frown upon so much. It seems overly ****, to me. Anyhow, I think it's a misnomer, that its against Carfax rules to get someone to run a car. Can anyone show me different? Thoughts? Anyone?

I am not weighing in on the issue except to say that I would bet Carfax's terms of service include language restricting use to personal use, or some similar phrase. Unless that language is tight and specific, there may be room to argue that running VINs for your forum buddies falls within personal use. I was unable to find the language, or any language about service terms, on their site. I suggest anyone curious should email their customer service. CP

Maybe approach this differently, what if you owned Carfax would you still feel the same way? Some people consider it stealing and I guess thats why certain types get upset about it. Personally I think if you want a Car-fax then you should pay.....just my $0.02

http://carfax.com/cfm/legal_disclaimer.cfm 2. Restrictions on Use. The Site contains copyrighted material, trademarks, and other proprietary information, including, without limitation, text, software, photos, graphics (the "Content"). The Content of the Site , as well as the organization, layout, arrangement and design elements of the Site and each individual page of the Site, are the property of CARFAX and its affiliates and are protected by United States and international copyright, trademark and other applicable intellectual property laws. You may not modify, publish, transmit, display, participate in the transfer or sale, create derivative works, or in any way exploit any of the Content, in whole or in part. Except as otherwise expressly permitted under copyright law, no copying, redistribution, retransmission, publication or commercial exploitation of downloaded material will be permitted without the express written permission of CARFAX or the copyright owner. In the event of any permitted copying, redistribution, or publication of copyrighted material, no changes in or deletion of author attribution, trademark legend, or copyright notice shall be made. You acknowledge that you do not acquire any ownership rights by downloading or printing the copyrighted material, or by using the Site. Just an FYI It's legally and morally wrong. As has been discussed previously, any site that permits this to happen is left open to letters from lawyers and getting tied up in conduct that they have inadvertently sanctioned by virtue of not stopping it. They (although I'm not a lawyer) are as legally liable for the copyright infringement as the persons that participated on the infringement. We all value this site and don't want it to get tied up in expensive lawsuits or get it shut down, so we don't engage in conduct that we know will get Rennlist into trouble.

Oh Boy Now you have gone and done it. Just wait til Dell gets a hold of this one Stand back everyone

Oreganet's point is well-taken, but I'm not sure the copyright language is the final answer. I believe there's caselaw holding forum operators responsible for what happens on their site (the original Napster, for example), but it's by no means clear that Rennlist would be "publishing" anything if one member asked another -on Rennlist- to run a carfax, the second member doid so as a favor, and emailed the result to the first member. Maybe the "participate in the transfer" language would operate as a ban, but I'm not sure. I am neither schooled nor experienced in copyright law (criminal procedure being my forte) and I defer to the experts.

yeah, I have no legal opinions, I just slept at a Holiday Inn last night.

:rofl:

I think everone here knows that a carfax report is a bunch of crap!! There are many ways to prevent carfax from getting the info on a car that has been wrecked or abused. A clean carfax report is of NO value. The dealers will be the first ones to wave a clean carfax report and say this car is A-OK. They often know otherwise but tout the carfax report as the gold standard.

Absolutely true, Gant knows that better than anyone, due to his submariner experiences.... wonder whatever happened to the RMS Titanic.

'Gant bought it for weekend drives in the country!

I've posted this opinion before, and will keep doing so until it sinks in for some of you thicker folks. Most of us do not care about carfax, their policies, products, or profits. We do care about this forum. If you share your carfax here, and the forum appears to support it, it puts John D. and our forum at risk. So if you ask, or share carfax, you will likely get flamed. Don't risk our forum because you are too tight to spend twenty bucks.

I'm just not so sure it puts anyone, or anything at risk. As I said before, my old Caddy-V forum was run tightly, like a ship. No cussing, no flaming and very by-th-book. They moderate everything VERY Closely and are sticklers @ everything. Carfax help was never an issue. I think we make way to much of it.

If one pays more for a year of unlimited carfax checks, (compared to a single report) then I don't see why not make full use of it, even if it means sharing and helping friends. I don't see a big deal here. If someone asks, and someone is willing to help, email the report and it's all done. I always get my carfax done thru' a friend working at a BMW dealership, the heck with morals or what is legally right, the heck with whoever thinks it's cheap. It's called "Beating the system"! Everybody does it, maybe not carfax, but something else. If you drive over the speed limit, that is also legally wrong! If you use a radar/laser detector, that is morally wrong! You are trying to beat the system.

Carfax sucks....and so does people..lol.

So that should be good enough? You aren't sure it puts anyone or anything at risk, so we should allow it?

Jesus F'in Christ! What in the Blue Hell has gone on in the last 12 hours??? I get off the board a little early last night to spend some quality time with the wifey and Gant throws a grenade on the 996 board. Gant, were you bored last night? Were you just looking to stir it up? Or are you really that facetious? And as for the responses, they are pretty much as I expected. Those that actually contribute to this board and support it with their membership will let you know that it is illegal to do this and Carfax has the legal verbage to prewarn you. HOWEVER, those that do NOT contribute to this site are the ones that have chimed in with "I really don't see the problem". But the point that NOBODY has mentioned, that is more important that all off the previous points, is that it VIOLATES RENNLIST POLICY. But then again, those of you that don't see the harm, probably don't mind John D. taking the fall for your actions (or those that think the same way). This thread should be closed. What a waste of bandwidth.

>>>VIOLATES RENNLIST POLICY. <<< That's good enough for me, and it should be good enough for anyone else using this excellent forum.

Just a lucky guess on my part that Dell would have an opinion Oh...and for the everyone is doing it defense. That is a strong one

carfax does suck my brother crashed his car 3 times in 2 yrs and sold it with a clean carfax not one mention of any insurance fix , I have gotten this problem also on a MB forum the mods told me not to do it or i will get turned in to carfax, if carfax has such a big problem with it they sould stop the unlimited search potion ,. unlimited is umlimited in my mind

Where does it say its against Rennlist policy to ask someone to run a Carfax report if they have a legal account? If it expicitly says it, that is good enough for me.

unlimited for a single user agreement. I guess theft of a product, no matter how much it "sucks" in your mind is o.k.?

I totally agree with Dell on this one.

I just don't think it's a real serious legal issue to help someone out by scoping out a car if you have an account. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. I was just going by the experience I had on another forum.

Here is a good analogy for you Gant: Would you let me use your health insurance card to obtain medical service since I do not have health insurance myself? I mean, you're paying for the health insurance but very healthy and not using it so why not let me borrow it?

thats a great idea with the insurance buddy ^^^^^^ if one person is accessing the site to run vins it fine, its a differnt story to give out the username and password for everyone to use, so it would be wrong for a car dealer to hand out the carfax report for anyone that wants to see it about the car in mention, damn crooks lol

dporsche74....you seem to have avoided answering my question to you and then come back with another crackback like your newest post. Your thought process is without rational substance. The dealer pays for a dealer license and is NOT running Carfax reports for anybody that walks in with a VIN number. They are showing the report for a car THEY OWN and have the accompanying report for. Also, how is it any different giving out your id and password to the baord as opposed to running a Carfax for anybody that asks. The only differnce in that argument is the method of delivery has changed, not the product. Please come with something of substance next time.

Dell, in theory you are right. I just think there is a gray area here. My point is, if there is a dealer here, or someone with an unlimited account, I don't think it's a big deal to scope out a car and either give them a yes its clean, or no its not. I come to this conclusion by seeing the way some of the other forums do it.

I have no problem with the dealer either as long as it is for a car THEY OWN. Why in the world would they run a Carfax for you on a car they have no vested interest in. I am amazed that you fail to see the unethical grounds this argument stands on (should you choose to ignore the illegality of it). Or are you just being a facetious to stir things up today?

i still like the insuance plan for my 10 mexicali workers lol I understand your point dell , if i owned a part of carfax i would find this very disturbing about these online forums, hang em high i say

Just hope that when you are sent to prison for fraud that you politely request a white-collar minimum security prison

Interesting conversation..? Hmmm - let's see if I can't add my $0.0002.... And this is NOT a flame. Just a simple statement about Carfax and Rennlist. A) - the Carfax TOS specifically prohibits it... B) - the Rennlist policy prohibits it... C) - I'm pretty sure if (A) didn't prohibit it - (B) would allow it. D) "X" Forum allows it - so should Rennlist. Really? Let's look at "X" Forum for a moment.. We'll use something like Big-boards ( http://www.big-boards.com/ "...Big-Boards tracks the most active message boards and forums on the web..."). Now - these are all Forums, from Nexopia to the 1800+ forums - like Dance Dance Revolution video game forum Now - Big Boards doesn't track anything but the Forums, so they miss the other "slices" of Rennlist - like the 80,000 folks on the e-mail lists, the gallery hits, the classifieds, the.. Well - you get the idea.... So - let's look up "X" Forum... Not bad - ranked 1360+/- on the worldwide scale of Forums. Now - let's look up "Rennlist"... Hmmmm - it's ranked 265+/- on the worldwide ranking of JUST the Rennlist Forums - compared to all sites worldwide. Now - let's be Carfax lawyers for a bit... Are you going to work with the major automotive sites (which Rennlist is ranked in the top 20 in that category worldwide) or the thousands of "smaller" forums? (And no - there is no such thing as "selective enforcement" as a counter claim to infringement.) So - my two points are.... 1) While one site "allows" it - it certainly does NOT negate the fact that they are in clear violation of the Carfax TOS. Whether they are in violation of their own policy does not negate the claims Carfax has on the usage of their reports nor any bearing on the Carfax TOS. 2) If you are saying that "X" site should be contacted by Carfax lawyers to legitimize protection of their property - then, if you write to them and ask for their permission to re-use their reports in a "free manner" because it's your current site policy, I'm certain they will take a moment to enlighten you and the other owners of "X" forum exactly of "their rights" and perhaps will even arrange which court to meet them in to discuss it... Bottom line - just because it is allowed elsewhere - doesn't make it "right" for ANYONE, or FORUM, or whatever. And - those who hold a Carfax subscription may run Carfax reports only for their own personal/business use, depending on the type of subscription purchased from Carfax. No where does it allow them to "run them for others", except as part of their business process, customers or personal use (again, as covered by the Carfax TOS as a "subscriber")... It really is that simple... Just my $0.000002 John D.

I think was stirring the pot and looking for some fun. Unfortunately we all took the bait.

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/order.gif

We're not going to minimum-security white-collar resort. No, we're going to a federal pound-me-in-the-*** prison!" 1. pound-me-in-the-*** prison A place that is best to avoid. But if you are sent to one, the secret is: kick someone's *** your first day, or become someone's bitch.

Wow, I finally got to see a "What in the Blue Hell.."!!!

+1

There is no "theory" about it. He IS right. CarFax is a business with real employees, real expenses, and a real product. They market this product (vehicle history reports) in exchange for the fees that they charge. When you try to utilize this product by using the service without paying you are stealing. It really is just that simple.

No question you're violating carfax TOS by running it for a friend. Your conscience is your guide. What is amusing is the outrage exhibited every time someone makes a request. Yet these people are probably part of the 99%+ of the users on this (and every other) board that knowingly engage in criminal conduct on a daily basis -tax fraud. Cheating the government is ok but carfax is a no-no.

Oh Lord, here we go. Time to shut down this thread.

Huh!??! Exqueeze me? Sure, we all do something... my vice is my accelerator pedal (I'm guessing we're all the same on that), but that's a big jump to make. Maybe you cheat the govenment, but I'm guessing you're mostly on your own on that one. I'm with Dell. Time to shut this circus down.

Why don't you and that moron from Connecticut go hang out on the Camaro forum, OK? I don't like being lumped into some arbitrary "99%" and accused of a crime. Why, just because I own a Porsche? I don't steal. PERIOD. Doesn't matter if it's the government or Wal-Mart or Carfax, stealing is stealing is stealing and is wrong and doesn't happen, not with me. You can't justify your actions by accusing others of crimes not committed. Michael

So, if someone is a dealer and has a Carfax account, and someone asks them about a random Porsche thats NOT at that dealership, and that person says, "no accidents, no odometer rollback, looks like a clean car". If you're telling me THAT is against Rennlist rules, SHOW ME and I will abide by it and flame on anyone who does not abide by it.

Gant.....ding, you've got mail

Oh, I didn't notice that the site admin had weighed in. TOPIC CLOSED!!!!!! Thanks John D

Not a problem!! If you still have questions - PM me, OK?? Best to you! John (and yes - I can still post to closed threads )