997 gt3 suspension - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

What's the thoughts on changing the suspension on a gt3 ? From my older days of motor bikes ohlins suspension has always been the dogs I've got front and rear on a gsxr and rm and looking at what's available for gt3 there's lots to choose from so let's have some thoughts before I buy road use only not interested use

For a 997 gt3 gen 1

Was faced with the same predicament on my 997.1 RS two years ago - then drove a car on KWs and have never looked back since. Is it faster against the clock - no it is not. Does it drive nicer and is it more confidence inspiring - yes it is. (I am referring to track driving) If you go for it, make sure you go for a proper piece of kit and have it set up by an expert.

If your going for road use only I'd look at these: http://www.exe-tc.co.uk/porsche-suspension CH installed a set of single adjustment on his old gen 1, there is a mag write up on it somewhere.

here : http://www.exe-tc.co.uk/images/porsche/gtporsche_a... I run a set of custom built and valved Ohlins 3 way adjustables on my Mk1 996 GT3, they're superb (and I hope I'll be forgiven for saying they're a few rungs up the ladder in comparison with KW's) But for a road going 997 GT3 ? Personally I don't think a standard 997 GT3 is exactly hamstrung by its suspension on the road (on the track yes, but not on the road) At no point during the ownership of either of my 997 GT3's did I think "Some decent dampers would make the car more planted and quicker from A to B". If ever there was a case of diminishing returns, this I suspect would be it. I've no doubt the fitment of some KW's, Motons, JRZ's, Ohlins or ExeTC's would improve the cars composure (and no doubt compliance) but the 997 GT3 front end is a lot better resolved out of the box (for road use) when compared to the 996 versions. If you haven't already done so, make sure all the suspension is in rude health and get the corner weights, ride heights and geo set up correctly (and accurately). Google search the usual suspects to establish those best equipped to carry this out.

For road use (and the odd track day) Bilstein PSS10 is a solid upgrade that everyone ignores bizarrely. Its my favourite street use upgrade for the GT3. You get all the benefits of a better shock without just screwing up the extra compliance that the 997 GT3 offers. Spending more is a waste if you aren't going to track hard. I am not a fan at all of KW.

Agreed. For road I'd go that way although the standard active set up is very good on the road. Passive definitely better on the track but I'd question the need to go that way for road only

Bilstein offer both PASM and non PASM options so it can be kept if you have it on.

Hi Fioran, the reason I went for a KW is that I drove it and liked it - paired with the fact that I can get excellent track side support from there here in Germany, and funnily enough next to none from Bilstein. Very interested to hear from a knowlegable guy like yourself why you don't like them! Not a KW "fanboy" btw and have never driven a Bilstein car as, like you say, there don't seem many cars around running them.

This may not be relevant for a 997, but I found the 996 on PSS9 to be no better than OEM, and the Manthey KWs to be excellent for the price (coupled with solid bushes).

noneedtolift said: Hi Fioran, the reason I went for a KW is that I drove it and liked it - paired with the fact that I can get excellent track side support from there here in Germany, and funnily enough next to none from Bilstein. Very interested to hear from a knowlegable guy like yourself why you don't like them! Not a KW "fanboy" btw and have never driven a Bilstein car as, like you say, there don't seem many cars around running them. Hi, Which KW's do you have fitted, the street V3/Clubsports kit or the Competion equipment ?

Harris_I said: This may not be relevant for a 997, but I found the 996 on PSS9 to be no better than OEM, and the Manthey KWs to be excellent for the price (coupled with solid bushes). I'm somewhat out of the loop on this stuff having sold mine 2 years ago, but I seem to remember that Manthey charged a hell of a lot more than others for KW equipment which they seem to brand as their own?

The OP was wanting shocks for road use only, and I presumed simply asking if there was anything out there by way of a better shock that he could be running for his car instead of the factory units given his experience with ohlins on his bikes. Given the compliance of the 997 GT3 on the road is what many enjoy over the 996 GT3 then putting something on that doesn't just destroy this is important. The Bilstein PSS10 is an excellent shock upgrade. You gain from having a better quality shock over the stock unit but avoid getting into the track use compromise trade off sweepstakes. Ride is fundamentally unchanged but now takes place on a better quality shock. As Steve said, PASM can be advantageous to keep on (I personally think its better to bin it even on the road and put on something passive that when set is comparable to PASM in regular mode but this is definitely a case of each to their own on this one.) Bilstein offer shocks that enable this to be kept too. In these circumstances I really like the Bilstein shocks (on all 996 and 997) over the factory units and above everything else. Of course if you start tracking with any fervor you will find the car wallows much too much just as you will in the same cars with the regular shocks. You aren't running upped spring rates and the factory rates are simply not enough in these conditions. It is possible to revalve the Bilsteins of course to use harder springs but there are better options to use instead when this is your goal. So in short; looking for a car that will respond on track markedly better than OEM and you are willing to compromise your road manners then PSS10 (or PSS9) is not the answer. Looking for a way to improve the car that the factory delivered for road use (and help if you do go near a track once in a while), PSS10 is definitely the way to go IMHO. So to KW. If they are working for you then thats all that matters at the end of the day. If you are getting positive support when you need it then thats a massive plus. It matters when you are racing a car thats for sure. I dislike them for reasons of design, quality and philosophy from a technical perspective. I also dislike how they feel from the drivers seat (which isn't surprising given my tech issues).

Thanks for all the info and replies iam taking it that like most things you cannot have the best of both worlds ! You either go for road use which I do or more track geared which is then not as good on the road? My car is a 2007 (57) with 25 k on so I suppose it all will be getting tired if not through miles age alone. Just out of intrest if iam doing this is there anything else I should be looking at or changing before it was geo,d up I'd would try and do it all in one go I hate doing things twice

I think retaining the PASM and using the Bilstein B16s is the way to go, a better shock but retains the variable damping which Porsche developed with Bilstein (this is what I have on my 7GT2 together with solid links) There is also an aftermarket PASM computer available which claims to work much faster and "better" than the factory system at controlling the valving - I have one on order so can't comment on it yet. If you are ditching the PASM I think the new Ohlins kit in the link below looks a great bet, Ohlins at a Bilstein price. http://www.fvd.de/de/en/Porsche-0/997_GT3-141-34/-...

cook3471 said: Thanks for all the info and replies iam taking it that like most things you cannot have the best of both worlds ! You either go for road use which I do or more track geared which is then not as good on the road? My car is a 2007 (57) with 25 k on so I suppose it all will be getting tired if not through miles age alone. Just out of intrest if iam doing this is there anything else I should be looking at or changing before it was geo,d up I'd would try and do it all in one go I hate doing things twice On the contrary, I believe you can have the best of both worlds, but it will cost you. The ExeTC dampers are peerless, If I were to do another 996 Mk1 GT3 road "project", they'd be on my wish list. But I do have to agree with Neil on the Bilstein PSS9/10 set up, they are often overlooked and KW seems to be the default go to for 996 GT3 owners, I suspect a large part of that is down to a certain UK KW dealer telling every 996 GT3 owner that "It's not worth trying to adjust the ride heights and set the corner weights on your car because the spring seats will be seized" they go on to say that "for not much more than the cost of a new set of OE Bilsteins and springs, you can have a set of spangly and "better" KW V3's fitted" Many fell for it, and hence there are plenty of 996 GT3's fitted with the KW's. Ruf work/ed closely with Bilstein, some years ago I bought a Ruf/Bilstein PSS9 equipped 996 Turbo. Compared with the standard wallowy barge suspension, the Ruf kit was a huge transformation, yet still retained everyday civility and compliance.It made the Turbo and far more engaging and safer car to drive. Furthermore, a fellow PH contributor decided to build his own Bilstein kit to use on his 996 GT2 a couple of years ago, he bought a set of PSS 9/10 dampers from bilstein and chose his own spring rates before purchasing them off Eibach. The results were excellent, I don't think I've driven a more usable, biddable, compliant 996 GT2 on the road. Back to back at Bruntingthorpe, my Ohlins suspended 996 GT3 felt more in it's element, but part of that would have been down to the Cup tyres rather than the MPS2's the GT2 was running.

I also have a 997.1 GT3 that I use for road driving and track days. I personally like the standard set-up with the option of firming the dampers via the button on the dash for dry track days, and normal for road or wet track days. On bumpy british roads it often feels too stiff and on track it feels like it could use slighly stiffer springs, but overall I think its a really good "compromise" set-up to cover road and track use. The geo set-up seems to have a bigger influence on track handling. If I had a track only GT3 I would consider changing the suspension - but then I'd probably look for an ex-cup car instead.

soapbox time* feel free to skip!! I have long ranted, to anyone who is unfortunate to stand still long enough, that I suspect that an average track day car is more likely slower because of adjustable suspension than is faster because of them. Adjustable shocks are wonderful things BUT they need proper setup to work most effectively. Given the time and effort required to set adjustable shocks up properly (except MrD who can just dial them in instantly of course for any condition); running lap after lap doing small adjustments of one parameter then the next while taking notes to get them to an appropriate baseline (and being able to feel/feedback on changes) is something few people are doing. Putting a pro driver in your car for the day to set it up is a very good shortcut but I am not seeing the average car having this done either. (Steve, I am about to set myself up as your pimp) The result is that most are running on a shock that isn't operating at its best. I have lost count of the number of GT3s in particular I have driven on fantastic suspension setups where its just all over the place and I have plenty fingers left for counting the ones where they were adjusted properly. The water is made cloudy by the car now running on harder springs which imparts an immediate improvement on track over the wallowing that occurred on factory rates. The package is thus felt to be wonderful (since separation of spring and shock doesn't take place in the mind) when the reality is that the same uprated spring paired to a non adjustable shock that was matched to that spring rate (out of the box) would be both better and faster (than the maladjusted 3 way) The Exe-tc thing is an interesting one. They aren't adding tons of travel WRC style to the GT3 (which is the real solution killer) and there are limits with things new that can be done with a damper and a spring. It seems like the progressive spring rate coupled to giving good set up support on a quality damper are their ingredients. There are plenty quality dampers about so that leaves spring and setup information. See above for setup and a window in to why it matters. That they know their package on various cars and can tell you exactly what its baseline setting needs to be is a big help to owners. As a side bar this is also the reason Moton were great when they first came out. They offered good quality components of course but they had tested their package properly and could tell you out of the box where your baseline would be on a GT3. The use of a progressive (and a soft) spring is counter to the way most aftermarket stuff operates. I presume that the thinking is all about wheel control. Keep the wheel on the ground over bumps and the car feels better and can be driven faster. What may be interesting for you to hear is that this approach to wheel control is also used in high level sports car racing but its done without using a progressive spring (for reasons you can all google). Instead linear springs are stacked giving wheel control over bumps or in slow sections (depending on how you set up and what your goal is) but leaving everything else to happen on the normally linear hard rate. The obvious hurdle to applying this setup is that rate and length are critical and car specific. Change pretty much anything and you need to calculate everything out again and replace at least one set of springs. It makes it impossible to sell as an off the shelf package. The 997.2 RS (lauded for the way it eats the road up) is using stacked springs at the rear. It lacks the precision of the racing set ups but its on there and the main reason it feels so different across tarmac than previous cars. As a final point, not every suspension setup looks enough at what happens when the wheel is moving in the negative direction. Failure to do so results in some weird features and a car that rather suddenly feels like its falling over under certain conditions. Edited by fioran0 on Wednesday 2nd July 12:29

2 springs were on the Audi TTRS mag ride upgrades :-) nothing new gave better on road ride comfort and better on track performance, win win. strange we don't see it very often. 1 or 2 way shocks are not hard to set up. takes a track day then you have a starting point to fine tune from there. full 3 ways are tricky. but most shocks are 1 way any way which I would avoid, why have adjustable shocks which are not adjustable for bump and rebound separate ! great way to learn about car control and how a car handles for a novice like me. Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 2nd July 13:59

Those springs are not working in the same way at all. That's just a regular stack of springs. Edited by fioran0 on Wednesday 2nd July 14:19

are not 2 springs stacked just 2 springs stacked ? not sure how it can be different, but then you are the expert :-)

I love that you loaded that up with what you felt was potent sarcasm while instead looking a complete arse. Well played!

you just read things the wrong way ! maybe looking for a issue ? I am very black and white and don't play games. Some time you come across mental ;-) but if you think I look the arse then that's ok with me also. I am just saying, to me, who is just a normal run of the mill guy, 2 springs stacked looks like 2 springs stacked to me, I was awaiting a tech reply and not in jest. Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 2nd July 15:57

fioran0 said: Adjustable shocks are wonderful things BUT they need proper setup to work most effectively. I'm not sure anyone is doubting that Neil ? fioran0 said: The water is made cloudy by the car now running on harder springs which imparts an immediate improvement on track over the wallowing that occurred on factory rates. This is where the distinction between building a fast road and track damper is so important. From my limited experience, a lot of damper technicians have no concept of what makes decent road car damper valving, or indeed what constitute a sensible spring rate for road use. When I was having the Ohlins built for the GT2 (and subsequently the GT3) the springs they wanted to use were ridiculously heavy poundage. Thus whilst the ride on the 996 GT2 was doubtless superior to the stock (tired) set up, there was little or no initial roll on turn in. When I purchased a set of oe Mk1 GT3 springs and gave them to the damper technician to establish the rates, he laughed, "I'm not fitting springs of that poundage, they'll be way too soft" he said. He took some convincing, but he checked the spring rates and said that the springs were available from either H&R, Eibach or Ohlins. They were duly fitted. The ride is slightly stiffer than standard at slow speed (primarily because the springs aren't progressive rate), but once the dampers are warm and the speeds higher, the near standard spring rates (within 5% of oe) are perfect. In short, the car relies on superior damping rather than high spring rates to control both is behaviour over bumps and it's weight transfer. fioran0 said: The Exe-tc thing is an interesting one. They aren't adding tons of travel WRC style to the GT3 (which is the real solution killer) and there are limits with things new that can be done with a damper and a spring. I have to say I'm somewhat taken aback by that comment Neil. I've a mate who was on the Ohlins Moto GP squad for three years. We spent many an evening supping tea and discussing what the latest innovations were, and the thinking behind them. Believe you me, there is much new being tried, it may be seen by outsiders as gilding the lily, but damper design and valving is constantly evolving with new ideas and technology. fioran0 said: It seems like the progressive spring rate coupled to giving good set up support on a quality damper are their ingredients. Graham the boss at ExeTC (now tragically deceased) came up with some very innovative rebound valving that enabled a WRC car's wheels and tyres to remain in contact with the ground longer before take off, and provide traction sooner after landing. I suspect UK trailmonster will be able to shed more light on this topic having been in both the Prodrive WRC squad and the various Touring car programmes Prodrive ran IIRC. fioran0 said: There are plenty quality dampers about so that leaves spring and setup information. See above for setup and a window in to why it matters. That they know their package on various cars and can tell you exactly what its baseline setting needs to be is a big help to owners. As a side bar this is also the reason Moton were great when they first came out. They offered good quality components of course but they had tested their package properly and could tell you out of the box where your baseline would be on a GT3. The use of a progressive (and a soft) spring is counter to the way most aftermarket stuff operates. I presume that the thinking is all about wheel control. Keep the wheel on the ground over bumps and the car feels better and can be driven faster. ^ This. As I recall, ExeTC advocate running the softest spring rates possible(though it's also what was recommended by the individual that sold me the 996 "RS" Ohlins dampers for fitment to the 996GT2 ........)

Furthermore, a fellow PH contributor decided to build his own Bilstein kit to use on his 996 GT2 a couple of years ago, he bought a set of PSS 9/10 dampers from bilstein and chose his own spring rates before purchasing them off Eibach. The results were excellent, I don't think I've driven a more usable, biddable, compliant 996 GT2 on the road. Back to back at Bruntingthorpe, my Ohlins suspended 996 GT3 felt more in it's element, but part of that would have been down to the Cup tyres rather than the MPS2's the GT2 was running. [/quote] Ah thanks H, the car was pretty good with that kit on. I've got the 3 way Exe-tc's on now and its even better :-) will drop by some time so you can sample. Needless to say the car is a monster but useable now...

I am still waiting for a tech review why the spring stack is not the same. O well.... never get any answers on here once you press people for them !

keep it lit said: noneedtolift said: Hi Fioran, the reason I went for a KW is that I drove it and liked it - paired with the fact that I can get excellent track side support from there here in Germany, and funnily enough next to none from Bilstein. Very interested to hear from a knowlegable guy like yourself why you don't like them! Not a KW "fanboy" btw and have never driven a Bilstein car as, like you say, there don't seem many cars around running them. Hi, Which KW's do you have fitted, the street V3/Clubsports kit or the Competion equipment ? KW Clubsport (3 way variant)- thanks for elaborating Neil, understood. As you said as long as it works for one individually all is good. Bit like tasting vine really Absolutely agree that there's no point in upgrading the suspension if you are not willing to go through the lengthy process of setting it up properly (preferably using someone who nows what he's doing if you can't do it yourself).

mrdemon said: I am still waiting for a tech review why the spring stack is not the same. O well.... never get any answers on here once you press people for them ! I'm just choosing to ignore you. The answer itself is simple.

mrdemon said: O well.... I guess most on here have now seen through my trollish behaviour and are choosing not to respond ! EFA ;-) Well done An ex- 996 GT3 owner with no axes to grind. AND one who enjoyed the torque characteristics of the engine, the perfectly chosen gearbox ratios and the suspension dynamics (unlike yourself)

I must be even more stupid than we all thought then, as a system with 2 springs one soft and one harder, vs another picture stating one softer and one harder does to me look the same. as ever no real tech info on here.

Been doing the phone bit today for prices for bilstein and ohlins. Bilstein kit pss10 which inc new drop links is 3k ohlins kit is 2,400 but you do reqr a kW part costing £240 to delete light on dash as there's no wires on ohlins to couple up there's not a lot of info ohlins as it's quite new. Which to buy????

I always thought Ohlins focussed on bikes so would favour Bilstein for their experience with cars, particularly Porsches. Unless you've driven a car on Ohlins, I'd say Bilstein is the safer option but I wouldn't spend £2-3k without having tried the product first.

MOst of the top Lotus use Ohlins, the fastest Front wheel drive car round the ring uses Ohlins. I think they know what they are doing with car dampers. but like you said it all about spring rates and valving and what you want from them

mrdemon said: I must be even more stupid than we all thought then... . Doubt it! If you are really interested why not Google it instead of destroying every interesting thread that is ever posted on GT3's? There was some real good real-world information coming out of this thread till you added your two penneth - again!!! Don't say it's a 'genuine question' because if you was truly interested you would ask specific questions after you had done some research and not just constantly goading people with Why Why Why like my 4 year old daughter! Its obvious you are only interested in creating dischord on this forum so, why not never post on any GT3 thread ever again because we all know you don't like them, you have said as much at every opportunity! Deal?

NO deal :-p I do try and help people out esp people looking to buy one. SO not true, that's what slippy and fioran0 does and always makes my posts look worse making a big issue from them. fioran0 ALWAYS edits his posts after I post questions EVERY TIME !!! either with a goole answer or deletes info !!! or then when PUSHED refuses to answer lol is quite funny at times. I am sure slippy and fioran0 must be on the booze most of the time on line. I must look dumb to some but I cannot get this spring stack over what was done with the Audi TTRS with there spring stack. softer spring to aid comfort than a harder spring which comes into play when you push the car. why is the Porsche one different ? Pointless googling at the net is full of bulls t hype and lies :-) IF you want to play along with some of these idiots then so be it, but my questions NEVER gets answered !!! and people ALWAYS back pedal. other can see what goes on and people fall in one of two camps, amazing how many people PM me and agree the bulls t which gets posted here. I am a fan of the GT3, but it pains me to see the cult bulls t following on here where a group of people act like idiots and will post black is white just because they own one. I asked questions regarding Forge products and claims and you just get is one or 2 owners agreeing with Forge motor sports claims and when I did my own tests and outed the bull s t with their intercooler, you just get abuse what do you want a forum where very one follows 2 or 3 people and what ever they say is 100% correct, or do you want to out people who talk b ks and then people buy and follow these nutters and paying money to do so making mistakes with their own money because a few sheep say one thing is good !!! Edited by mrdemon on Saturday 5th July 09:30

The thing is mrdemon, and this may come as a shock....but sometimes I DO agree with you! I think its just your posting style, it comes across as if you are right ALL the time and everyone else is wrong. This is especially true on GT3 threads where you constantly want to knock the car because it didn't work for you. I like different views on a forum, it's why I like reading them but the thing that frustrates me about your posts is they always come across as if you are point scoring and/or goading others into saying something that you wish to challenge. As a side note, how many GT3 owners post on here saying the Cayman R is not a good road car or not a great track car? Answer - none! They appreciate the car is a great car but its just not the car for them, just wish you would show the GT3 (and their owners) the same courtesy sometimes.

mrdemon said: NO deal :-p I do try and help people out esp people looking to buy one. Which is exactly what I do. And having owned various iterations of the GT3 over the past nine years, I feel more qualified than you do do so. My views are based purely on road use, as I have no interest in trackdays whatsoever. It really is that simple mrdemon said: SO not true, that's what slippy and fioran0 does and always makes my posts look worse making a big issue from them. Sorry, you've misinterpreted my actions, that being to provide some balance to your negative spin on the GT3, whether that be the 991 GT3 or the 996. mrdemon said: fioran0 ALWAYS edits his posts after I post questions EVERY TIME !!! either with a goole answer or deletes info !!! Pot kettle black ? You've done exactly that with the very post I've quoted ? mrdemon said: I am sure slippy and fioran0 must be on the booze most of the time on line. Casting nonsensical aspersions such as this does you no favours. Not that it's any of your business, but I'm teetotal. mrdemon said: Pointless googling at the net is full of bulls t hype and lies :-) Quite, if anyone were to read your posts on the 996 GT3, what conclusions do you think they'd draw ? mrdemon said: I am a fan of the GT3, but it pains me to see the cult bulls t following on here Laughable. Can you not see the complete, total an utter irony in this comment when you do just this with the the Cayman R ? mrdemon said: I asked questions regarding Forge products and claims and you just get is one or 2 owners agreeing with Forge motor sports claims and when I did my own tests and outed the bull s t with their intercooler, you just get abuse. It may have escaped your attention, I actually concur with your views on Ohlins dampers, I do so having had first hand experience with them. What I disagree with is your opinion that they're easy to set up. But rather than enter into yet another internet slanging match, I've chosen to remain silent. Edited by mrdemon on Saturday 5th July 09:30 I'm planning to head over to Donington for the evening session on Monday. I'd like to take this opportunity to offer you an olive branch. If you're genuinely interested in ending our "feud", you can email me via my profile page and we can make the necessary arrangements to meet up face to face. It's a genuine offer and won't involve any other members of the PH GT3 mafia. I await your response.

What's all this about ! Sounds like pistols at dawn !!

Mr Demon, hows the fishing trip working out for you? The answer to the difference is painfully obvious IF you had either a basic understanding of things OR a mind that was able to process new information in an appropriate fashion. Repeatedly you prove that you have neither across a wide array of topics but yet always with an unsurpassed confidence. It is a cognitive bias that repeats with worrying regularity and provides some insights. I therefor choose to have nothing to do with you, save only for to put a brake on some of your more ludicrous assertions when others may suffer or if a wider debate (i.e. other posters) may be interested. "The Dunning-Kruger effect, named after David Dunning and Justin Kruger of Cornell University, occurs where people fail to adequately assess their level of competence — or specifically, their incompetence — at a task and thus consider themselves much more competent than everyone else. This lack of awareness is attributed to their lower level of competence robbing them of the ability to critically analyse their performance, leading to a significant overestimate of themselves. Put more crudely, they're too stupid to realize they're stupid." That you - without fail - simply slink off in every single situation to repeat the same tired playbook on a new topic at your whim is a large part of the reason why I am not answering you on this simple issue. One certainly wonders at times if classical conditioning is the only way in which you can learn. That you operate only under a pretence of trying to learn when it suits you and your ultimate aims of topic disruption is the other large part of why I am ignoring you. You are a troll with no doubt the appropriate level of personality issues touted during recent research. You leave no stone unturned in your quest, including outright misrepresentation of events that, if you are not trolling, are unsettling. If you were genuinely interested I would have all the time I could spare to discuss (if I knew the answer or where you could find it). On that latter note, I do very much enjoy your insults that I just learn by reading stuff. It provides for an enjoyable moment of light relief. Having worked in the fields of science and engineering for almost 20 years I can assure you that I do very much learn by reading stuff. Perhaps you can see the irony between your position and attempted insult? Thankfully you exist only as an internet user name. A few bytes in the great ether of the internet. For some people you are that guy in the office, next door etc. Those people have my greatest of sympathy if you operate with such ignorance and hubris in the physical world. Your amusing contretemps at the now infamous track night suggest that this may not be quite the case so there are some silver linings.

fioran0 said: The answer to the difference is painfully obvious IF you had either a basic understanding of things OR a mind that was able to process new information in an appropriate fashion. I really hate to reopen this debate, but I'm too ignorant to find the difference/answer here and quite curious to learn. Would you mind explaining please?

Slippydiff said: When I purchased a set of oe Mk1 GT3 springs Hi Slippydiff May I ask where you sourced these springs? Thanks

My local OPC, not expensive either, I may add.

My local OPC told me it is a "race part" and they would need to contact Porsche AG for pricing etc.

Yeh, some OPC parts guys can be a bit hard work ! These are the part numbers I've got for the Mk 1 996 GT3 front and rear spring sets (a set is a pair of springs) P996.333.531.91 504 Spring set. P996.343.531.91 504 Spring set Not sure which is front and rear, but suspect P996.333.531.91 504 is the rears Let me know if you're having problems, my OPC parts guys are always very helpful.

Slippydiff said: Yeh, some OPC parts guys can be a bit hard work ! These are the part numbers I've got for the Mk 1 996 GT3 front and rear spring sets (a set is a pair of springs) P996.333.531.91 504 Spring set. P996.343.531.91 504 Spring set Not sure which is front and rear, but suspect P996.333.531.91 504 is the rears Let me know if you're having problems, my OPC parts guys are always very helpful. Yes 333 is rear. No joy with Reading OPC. They claim these particular Porsche Motorsport parts are no longer available! Are you aware that Bilstein updated their rod bearings to eliminate wear? My dampers both required new rods but these should now be lifetime parts. Edited by GT Glee on Wednesday 16th July 12:52

Slippydiff said: Yeh, some OPC parts guys can be a bit hard work ! These are the part numbers I've got for the Mk 1 996 GT3 front and rear spring sets (a set is a pair of springs) P996.333.531.91 504 Spring set. P996.343.531.91 504 Spring set Not sure which is front and rear, but suspect P996.333.531.91 504 is the rears Let me know if you're having problems, my OPC parts guys are always very helpful. GT Glee said: Yes 333 is rear. No joy with Reading OPC. They claim these particular Porsche Motorsport parts are no longer available! Rears available (stock in the UK) Fronts on backorder, have asked my contact to establish when/if they'll be available again) GT Glee said: Are you aware that Bilstein updated their rod bearings to eliminate wear? My dampers both required new rods but these should now be lifetime parts. Indeed, I understand they did so some years ago. The rears tend to kill the bushes which then wears the hard chroming off the shafts, it tends to peel off leaving razor sharp shards/edges, unsurprisingly this in turn destroys the rod seals (very rapidly !!)