Lowering Springs or coilovers

My main goal is to lower the stance of the car, and for this I feel like lowering springs would be the best option. My car is a 987.1 cayman s with pasm . I was wondering if lowering springs would cause the dampeners to wear out earlier than normal or have any other negative effects? I'm also open to saving up and going for a set of coilovers, but seeing as i mainly daily drive this car with only fun backroad driving and no track days, I'm struggling to justify the price. Anyone have any arguments for the coilovers vs lowering springs? If I do get lowering springs now can I get a different set of dampeners later to go with the springs or would I have to buy a whole new set up? Either way I would like your recommendations for coilovers or lowering springs. Edit: I would also like to add that I wouldn't mind a stiffer ride, I just can not stand the wheel gap

PASM struts and dampers are coilovers, just non-adjustable. I have heard of people running the Cayman R springs in PASM shocks to lower 10mm.

I second the R springs with your existing PASM shock. You can upgrade the PASM controller as well with a DSC from TPC for much better compression/rebound control, making your system a controllable one. Your ride will be lower, slightly stiffer, and much more controllable with your existing PASM buttons. True coilovers, like Ohlins or JRZ will allow you to set your ride height, change your rake for better f to b balance (removing the inherent understeer) and have a corner balance to equalize turnin and corner response with equal weight transfer for left and right turns. You can search for lovetoturn's threads on the use of X-73 springs and GT3 swaybars on his existing PASM shocks. He also had the DSC TPC controller on his 981 S. He used this system for at least 3 years without failure of the shocks bodies before upgrading to a GT3 I believe.

thanks for the suggestion but for me I don't think a 10m drop is enough the wheel gap would still be too much, so that leaves me with the springs or coilovers, if my goal is only a better ride height what would you guys suggest? It would be an added bonus if it were to improve my handling as well, however I just don't want it to have a negative impact on handling. A stiffer ride is acceptable though. Are lowering springs an acceptable solution or should I just save up for adjustable coilovers?

Ohlin coilovers - spring rates of 400 lbs/in f and 458 lbs/in r are good enough for me and my use. The corner balance took the drop to about 34 mm on one side and 36 mm on the other. I weigh 200 lbs which is corrected with the corner balance for even cross weight transfer. I also dropped the tail just a little to put more wt on the rear. This works very well with the Wavetrac ATB LDS and wider front tires, for excellent throttle modulation from the apex as well as slalom work. Different wheel sets really add purpose to the car. The OEM wheels still look attractive for this application. While the Titan 7's look much more racy. The Signature SV 104's look more boulevard. Check the tire spacing for these 18 inch wheels. All three tire sets are 255/35/18 f and 275/35/18 r. 40 side walls will add more tire to the wheelwells for your application. I would start with the R springs on the PASM shock bodies and the wheel spacer's first. Then decide on your wheels later.

wait is that the car with the cayman r springs?

No, I used Ohlin R&T coilovers as my springs and struts. This setup is more expensive than just changing to the R springs . But, the installation is the same, so I had my shop do the conversion to the Ohlins , saving me the money of having the springs redone later to the Ohlin coilovers.

I see, love your stance and wheels btw, what wheels are those? and do you have any budget coilover recommendations 3k is way too much for me when I don't plan on tracking this car. Is buying coilovers second hand a good idea or is that too risky?

One way to look at the underpinnings of the car is to figure out how long you intend to use it before moving on. If you want to use Porsche OEM equipment, then you are relegated to R or PASM springs/shocks. Coilovers will need costly rebuilding at some point. If you know the history of the coilover set, how many years/milage/races/damage etc, then you might get lucky. To some racers, as they move up the ranks, moderate coilovers get discarded for hard core ones, that could be where you might get lucky. The wheels are Titan 7 TS-5's; 18's, 9 in wide in f and 10 in in the rear. A solid block of Alu that is Forged, then C&C milled creating a lite weight, strong wheel and easy to clean wheel.

I see I guess for now I'll just keep saving up and make a decision down the line since i just had an alignment done and don't feel like immediately paying for another alignment. After looking at a few pictures of cars on R springs I am starting to realize the drop from R springs might be better for drivability and the fact that they are Porsche products does bring some peace of mind. While the H&R/eibach springs do give a better appearance I may be better off with ride height on R springs. Appreciate all the information!

Do you guys know if bilstein b12pro kit is compatible with pasm cars?

I only know of two vendors that support PASM shock replacements - Bilstein Damptronic B16 and I think TPC Racing makes Tractive DDA (which I think is a Damptronic resprung and revalved) You can find Damptronics for less than $3k for a set. Tractive DDAs are over $7k.

At that price point Ohlins hands down! We have off the shelf Ohlins like Apex runs as well as our custom sprung and valved Ohlins . If your goal is stance, like other have said, just get some H&R or Eibach or R springs . If you aren't tracking the car seriously the OTS Ohlins are fantastic. If you want no comprimise handling our Ohlins Track Package is what you need. Porsche OHLINS ROAD & TRACK COILOVER SUSPENSION This is what you want for a dual purpose car. Perfect for track days yet retains compliance on the street. In many cases these ride better than OE suspension even though we run higher spring rates. So you get to have your cake and eat it too. The Öhlins Road & Track suspension gives our... www.arcflashllc.com And of course if you just want the best you can get we have custom Ohlins TTXs : OHLINS TTX COILOVER SUSPENSION TTX 46 MT has featured heavily in GT, sports car and touring car succes and is accompanied by the TTX 40. The concpet of this damper features a 46 mm solid piston with a through rod of 30 mm, providing a rigid and lightweight strut. To further improve the rigidity, the outer tube is made from a... www.arcflashllc.com Titan 7 TS-5, light and STRONG! We do these in 18" or 19". Porsche Titan 7 T-S5 FORGED SPLIT 5 SPOKE WHEEL

If I do go with one of the options that isn't compatible with pasm , do i just do a pasm delete?

Ohlins makes a PASM delete kit.

Have heard good things about Ohlins ...my mech recommends them too.

Personally, I would not get rid of PASM . Just my opinion. Once you try the DSC Sport module you'll understand why.

yea looks like i'm deciding between the R springs or the H& R springs as I really can't justify coil overs for the pure purpose of getting lower on a car that wont see the track.

I have noticed that H& R springs leave the rear end higher for some reason which changes the balance to slightly oversteer. R springs do not. So, that could be a deciding point. Keep the PASM and maybe add the TPC DSC controller at the same time or later. Then add wheel spacers to push out the tires to the wheel arches. In your case I would stay with 40 side walls to fill the wheelwells.

Yea I think thats the route i'm going to take, I already have spacers, and I'm thinking i'll save up for the R springs and new wheels to fill out the wheel wells and the tpc dsc down the line because everyone that has it keeps swearing by it.

You won’t improve the handling in any way. Part of the cars engineering is masses and masses of suspension tuning and setup for the suspension. Most likely all you’ll do is ruin it. Its honestly not worth it for the slight visual “improvement” you think it’ll make. It’s an incredible drivers car, you don’t see the outside when you’re driving it.

On my PASM Cayman I used Godspeed springs but only installed them in the rear. Picked them because thought the others might be too low. And it is perfect now IMHO. The pic in my thumbnail is stock springs

Suspension tuning is an art, but lowering your car with R springs will fit into the Porsche drivers car style. So down the road, two items are important to maintain that feel. Tires - critical and wheels weight, width and offset also critical. TPC DSC to add faster computer speed, and controllability in both compression and rebound (in both high speed and low speed shaft speeds). Tires are very important in keeping the tread on the contact surface in long sweeping corners as well as slalom types of road work. Michelin PS4 's is an excellent place to start as they provide a tire with excellent traction, turnin and wet/dry stopping power yet minimal NVH. I would add that 9 in wheels in f and 10 in wheels in the rear, that would give you plenty of support for 255/35/18's in f tires and 275/35/18's in the rear tires . 35 side walls provide excellent turnin and slalom work, while 40 provide more rubber to fill the fender wells and a softer ride. Either Titan 7 TS-5's or Apex wheels will work. Once you get the suspension and wheels/ tires installed, then you can save for the final icing on the cake, TPC DSC . That will pull all the suspension parts together. If you look at some of the new parts going into the lastest 911 's, its essentially the TPC DSC and shock body. Porsche really has upped their game plan. Newer 911 's also tie together electronic engine mounts to stiffen up the engine and transaxle mounts, yet preserving limited NVH. Function First Orange insert and transmission mounts will do the same thing for your car, but they also will bring more NHV, where the newer 911 electronic mounts will not. Lastly, Sprint Booster , will add a surprising amount of excitement to your drive. Look into this product down the road. Have fun

Apex, I think the stock 18s for our rides are 235/40 and 265/40. You're running 35s front and rear? I imagine that would leave more of a gap from tire to fender wells? But what actual driving implications (handling straights and cornering, comfort, road noise etc) can one expect? And vice versa, what about going to 45s? Let's say we stick to the same class of tires (eg. Max Performance summer) to try to compare apples to apples. I take Porsche will of course not recommend this so let;s take that point out of the discussion. Thanks again in advance for your experience.

So the question is am I running 35's f & r? Yes, can 45 be run? yes but keep in mind the car was developed with 40 sidewall and that tire circumference. So you speedo will be off slightly running 45. But they will fill up your wheel wells. I will include a picture of my car with the Titan 7's TS-5 and Hoosier A7's race slicks, size 255/35/18 f and 275/35/18 r. I would check out Michelin PS4 's with a 40 sidewall. 35 will lower your car about 3/4 of an inch. You can see that these size tires do fill the wheel well nicely.

So the setup n the pic are the 35s or the 40 PS4? 45 will affect speedo but indicating more or less? I presume 35 will be less. Can you share your thoughts on handling, comfort and noise for the various heights pls. Also, when say PS4.. its not the PS4S? I like how the PS2 and PSS handles and am reading that handling wise the PS4(no S) does not handle as well. I'm sure its ok for street use and I don't track but ya know... Your car is dropped as well. How much did you drop it? I'm on R springs and B8 and that has lowered the ride approx 20 to 25mm. Yours looks closer to 35mm? I still have a 2.5 finger height on 40s but have toyed with the idea of going to 45s for the visual effect on closing the gap. I'm sure there may be issues associated with this that I'm not aware of so please so educate if time and choosing permits. Damn... those wheels rock! Must be a million times I've said that.

The larger the circumference/diameter of the tire the lower the speedo will read (fewer rpms for give speed). Now the aspect ratio only matters if the width of the tires are the same. So a wider tire with a lower aspect ratio may be the same size or even larger than a narrower tire. So you need to look at diameter of tires or circumference not aspect ratios. Also the taller the tire the narrower it will need to be to not rub (usually there are some exceptions to this rule) edited to add- Also consider performance. With a taller tire acceleration will suffer but top speed in each gear will be higher.

My OEM wheels have Michelin PS4S tires 255/35/18 f and 275/35/18 R. The Michelin 's are more squirlley, by that I mean I can slide them around a corner, using my LSD to spin both rear tires . With the other two sets of tires , that is RE71R's and Hoosiers A7, both are sticky enough that sliding these does not work. But again, the Michelins are road tires , not intended for the race track. Some say they work well in the rain, but I actually found the RE71R's to stick better, only in standing water are the Michlins better. My car is dropped (36 mm on the passenger side and 34 mm on the driver side) due to corner balance and 35 sidewall tires . I do scrape the front wind deflectors on some speed bumps and other items, like side walks. No touching of the suspension parts or the LN skid plate over the deep sump.