Cancelling a GT4 order - Page 4 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Hi all Just looking for some opinions on whether I should cancel my GT4 order. A couple months ago I posted saying I had an allocation and asked for views on spec. and what to expect going from a GTS 4.0 MT to a GT4 AT. Fast forward a bit and my circumstances have changed leading me to have serious doubts about whether to proceed. I wouldn't track the car and it wouldn't be a daily (same use as the GTS - high days and holidays). Cost to change is £30k. I’ve stretched the man maths quite a bit. Am I better off sticking with the GTS with its more compliant ride and saving myself a lot of money? I don’t care much about resale - as long as the car doesn’t lose loads of value. The car would be a keeper. Would the GT4 suspension start to grind after a while on our crappy roads? I am probably the sort of person who would worry about the front splitter as well. Well, at least until it has received a few whacks and then I probably wouldn’t care as much! I’m getting on well with the GTS, but it doesn’t have the looks or kudos or specialness of a GT4 and I wonder whether I would always regret passing on it. Any thoughts welcome!

Read what you wrote, I think you know the answer ?

The GT4 suspension is remarkably compliant given its GT3 underpinnings. GT4 more prone to superficial scraping the front brake cooling ducts and splitter v the GTS. Think you should bear in mind the tyre difference as the Cups on the GT4 do have restricted use in cold and certain wet weather. Other aspect to consider is you have specced a PDK GT4 but your GTS is manual so ask yourself which gearbox you actually prefer using because despite what others claim the gearbox type is a major part of the cars dynamic particularly on a Porsche GT which you may find lacking involvement with PDK. What spec is the GT4 particularly does it have buckets?

av185 said: The GT4 suspension is remarkably compliant given its GT3 underpinnings. GT4 more prone to superficial scraping the front brake cooling ducts and splitter v the GTS. Think you should bear in mind the tyre difference as the Cups on the GT4 do have restricted use in cold and certain wet weather. Other aspect to consider is you have specced a PDK GT4 but your GTS is manual so ask yourself which gearbox you actually prefer using because despite what others claim the gearbox type is a major part of the cars dynamic particularly on a Porsche GT which you may find lacking involvement with PDK. What spec is the GT4 particularly does it have buckets? Thanks for your comments. GT4 has comforts. I tried the buckets and didn’t like them. Like the GTS, the GT4 would only be used during warmer months, so tyres not a concern. Interesting comments re gearbox. I have driven a GTS AT and agree, the car does lose something by not having a MT. However, a combination of having not gelled with the MT in the GTS at the time of placing the GT4 order and views of friends in the know persuaded me to go PDK.

GTS PDK and GT4 PDK are not the same thing at all. GT4 box is programmed very differently and will shift faster and be much more keen to downshift say from 5th straight to 3rd. GTS PDK will likely be in 6th at the same speed and when you start pressing the accelerator will stay in 6th. Keep pressing and eventually it will shift into 3rd or sometimes 2nd and go haring off. I gelled with the GTS PDK box when touring and cruising but the GT4 is just much more on its toes imo and therefore more interesting.

Just be mindful how low the front is on a 718 gt4. The pdk box in the gt4 is a delight, suspension is firm and there is plenty of noise, but usable daily with the right seats. But don’t forget daily mileage will affect its value as most are second or third cars with fairly low miles.

IMO, don’t go for the GT4 Re: gearbox - shift manually. Don’t know anyone that leaves it to the PDK for “spirited driving” or on track You seem to be considering 30k for the aesthetics and the label of the GT4 over the GTS, yet for your use case, there’s no benefit of having the GT4. I’d suggest using your head and not your heart on this one as I think you’d be disappointed if you switched

Were I in your position, I'd take the GT4, if you don't "gel" with it, it won't be too difficult ( or costly) to sell & get back into another GTS. Best of luck, either way.

Personally I'd save the 30k and keep the GTS.

I’ve just done 3000 miles round Europe in a 718 GT car , the suspension is fine . ( Spyder ) Don’t worry about scraping the splitter , easily replaced . I bought a right hand end yesterday -£104 so not exactly a show stopper . After 3 manual Porsches , Including a GT3 I opted for PDK this time , far more relaxing in traffic and on the windy bits I just put it in manual mode ….. Had a Boxster GTS before but the GT platform has the edge .

Had both (981 variants) and enjoyed the virtues of each. However, I judge a car on how much use it gets and the GTS was better more of the time than the GT4. Firmer ride, lower suspension and road noise on UK roads and buckets make it any GT Porsche. more of a compromise. Benefits clearer on track.

What made you want / order the GT4 in the first place? Sounds like you answered your own question and you don’t want to spend the 30k on changing ! The car must be in build now, when is it due for delivery as it could be a difficult conversation with the OPC pulling out at this late stage? Good luck whatever you decide. Only you can decide what’s best for you!

Roma101 said: Hi all Just looking for some opinions on whether I should cancel my GT4 order. A couple months ago I posted saying I had an allocation and asked for views on spec. and what to expect going from a GTS 4.0 MT to a GT4 AT. Fast forward a bit and my circumstances have changed leading me to have serious doubts about whether to proceed. I wouldn't track the car and it wouldn't be a daily (same use as the GTS - high days and holidays). Cost to change is £30k. I’ve stretched the man maths quite a bit. Am I better off sticking with the GTS with its more compliant ride and saving myself a lot of money? I don’t care much about resale - as long as the car doesn’t lose loads of value. The car would be a keeper. Would the GT4 suspension start to grind after a while on our crappy roads? I am probably the sort of person who would worry about the front splitter as well. Well, at least until it has received a few whacks and then I probably wouldn’t care as much! I’m getting on well with the GTS, but it doesn’t have the looks or kudos or specialness of a GT4 and I wonder whether I would always regret passing on it. Any thoughts welcome! Cancel the order. Making a 30k jump from a manual to PDK fun car that will be less usable makes little sense. You'll lose money on selling your manual GTS and on buying new from an OPC. You won't have a problem finding a GT4 in the future, when circumstances change and if you decide you want to scratch that itch.

Agree with those saying keep the GTS. I had a GT4 and I found it a bit much for the road tbh - on track it was an absolute beast, but on the road...I preferred my Exige in all honesty, warts and all. I sold mine for just 2k less than I paid, but the market dropped considerably after that. No idea if it's bounced back as not been watching. ETA: my old car for sale here: https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/15027025 - market seems to have firmed up a little too. Edited by Actus Reus on Wednesday 28th June 13:46

g7jhp said: Cancel the order. Making a 30k jump from a manual to PDK fun car that will be less usable makes little sense. You'll lose money on selling your manual GTS and on buying new from an OPC. He won't lose money buying a new GT4 at list if he decides to sell it on in the short or short medium term and even if he keeps it say 3 years the depreciation will be broadly minimal. Assumes his mileage profile is average for a GT4 and spec dependent to a degree.

If.yiu cancel the order will you will lose the £5k deposit? If you do that may influence your decision? In the event that the deposit is not returned the OPC would surely be rubbing his hands.

BAMoFo said: If.yiu cancel the order will you will lose the £5k deposit? If you do that may influence your decision? In the event that the deposit is not returned the OPC would surely be rubbing his hands. The OPC may return the deposit in the circumstances as it is an 'overs' GT car but they can't sell it over list unless they register it.

Nice work if you can get it.

ClubsportStr said: What made you want / order the GT4 in the first place? Sounds like you answered your own question and you don’t want to spend the 30k on changing ! The car must be in build now, when is it due for delivery as it could be a difficult conversation with the OPC pulling out at this late stage? Good luck whatever you decide. Only you can decide what’s best for you! At the time I thought the GTS a bit soft and was thinking of getting rid of the GTS generally. Plus it’s a GT4! And they had just announced its demise. I will be able to get my deposit back so that is not an issue. If it was, I would take the car. Re comments about taking the car and then getting rid of it if I don’t like it…yes, I wouldn’t lose too much money, but overall it would cost me money if I wanted to get back in a GTS, if I can get an allocation. Risk is I sell the ideal car for something which is actually not the ideal car and then I have lost the ideal car. First world problems, eh! I think I might cancel.

I am daily driving my 997 RS without air on during summer - I quite enjoy it and every drive feels special. Never driven a GT4, but assume it would be similar. I would not go from a manual to a PDK car though, so in that case I’d keep the GTS

Fancy helping me get a GT4? I would take it in a heartbeat.

I’ve previously had a 981 GTS and now have a 718 GT4, I don’t do track days and run the car all year round so have PS4S’s on it. The GT4 is not as nice to drive on the road as the GTS was. It’s just as good over the bumps and the lower ride height hasn’t been a problem but it’s harder core setup means it just doesn’t load up as nicely in the corners at road speeds. Of course I could foresee all this when I bought it and equally a GTS was probably a better fit for me, but GT4 FFS!! My next move is to put the GTS geo settings on it, apparently this will make it feel much better on road. If you really WANT a GT4, go for it! It can be adjusted to fit you. Edited by Kesselchen on Wednesday 28th June 20:55

Roma101 said: At the time I thought the GTS a bit soft and was thinking of getting rid of the GTS generally. Plus it’s a GT4! And they had just announced its demise. I will be able to get my deposit back so that is not an issue. If it was, I would take the car. Re comments about taking the car and then getting rid of it if I don’t like it…yes, I wouldn’t lose too much money, but overall it would cost me money if I wanted to get back in a GTS, if I can get an allocation. Risk is I sell the ideal car for something which is actually not the ideal car and then I have lost the ideal car. First world problems, eh! I think I might cancel. Is there any way that you can keep both cars for a while and see which car you prefer? You’ll get rinsed if you sell your GTS to your Porsche dealer and would get a better deal with someone like RPM or JZM to name but two independent options. If you preferred the GTS then either of them (or others) would move on the GT4 at considerably less than your OPC as well. Just a thought and I know it’s not possible always to have multiple cars hanging around but might save you in the long run.

Shiverman said: Roma101 said: At the time I thought the GTS a bit soft and was thinking of getting rid of the GTS generally. Plus it’s a GT4! And they had just announced its demise. I will be able to get my deposit back so that is not an issue. If it was, I would take the car. Re comments about taking the car and then getting rid of it if I don’t like it…yes, I wouldn’t lose too much money, but overall it would cost me money if I wanted to get back in a GTS, if I can get an allocation. Risk is I sell the ideal car for something which is actually not the ideal car and then I have lost the ideal car. First world problems, eh! I think I might cancel. Is there any way that you can keep both cars for a while and see which car you prefer? You’ll get rinsed if you sell your GTS to your Porsche dealer and would get a better deal with someone like RPM or JZM to name but two independent options. If you preferred the GTS then either of them (or others) would move on the GT4 at considerably less than your OPC as well. Just a thought and I know it’s not possible always to have multiple cars hanging around but might save you in the long run. An interesting idea, thanks, but unfortunately I can’t make the man maths stretch quite that far! Would also have the small issue of trying to explain to the wife why there are now two Porsches knocking around! There is also the risk of losing further money on the car I then decided to sell or not being able to get rid of it. Those two indis weren’t interested in taking the GTS when I was doing the GT4 deal with Porsche.

Kesselchen said: I’ve previously had a 981 GTS and now have a 718 GT4, I don’t do track days and run the car all year round so have PS4S’s on it. The GT4 is not as nice to drive on the road as the GTS was. It’s just as good over the bumps and the lower ride height hasn’t been a problem but it’s harder core setup means it just doesn’t load up as nicely in the corners at road speeds. Of course I could foresee all this when I bought it and equally a GTS was probably a better fit for me, but GT4 FFS!! My next move is to put the GTS geo settings on it, apparently this will make it feel much better on road. If you really WANT a GT4, go for it! It can be adjusted to fit you. Edited by Kesselchen on Wednesday 28th June 20:55 Cheers. Half of me does want a GT4. The other half doesn’t because, as people have said here, the GTS is probably the better car for how I would be using it and an extra £30k to change is questionable. If only there was a friendly PH’er with a GT4 in the northern Home Counties who was willing to take me out in their GT4…

Roma101 said: Cheers. Half of me does want a GT4. The other half doesn’t because, as people have said here, the GTS is probably the better car for how I would be using it and an extra £30k to change is questionable. If only there was a friendly PH’er with a GT4 in the northern Home Counties who was willing to take me out in their GT4… When is your deadline for cancelling by? I have a 718 Spyder and would be happy to take you out in that if it helped.

Shiverman said: Roma101 said: Cheers. Half of me does want a GT4. The other half doesn’t because, as people have said here, the GTS is probably the better car for how I would be using it and an extra £30k to change is questionable. If only there was a friendly PH’er with a GT4 in the northern Home Counties who was willing to take me out in their GT4… When is your deadline for cancelling by? I have a 718 Spyder and would be happy to take you out in that if it helped. Thank you very much for the offer. Pretty sharpish, unfortunately. I think the car has arrived in the U.K. I haven’t signed the cancellation form yet, but I’ve had the conversation with the dealer. Therefore, probably a matter of days!

Take the car sell it for an extra few K, better in your pocket than the dealers! I personally don’t see a Gt4 as a £30k car over a Gts!

Madness, just take the GT4. I think pound for pound it’s the best car Porsche make.

Agree the 718 GT4 is great value nothing really comes close at the money it is 85% of a GT3 and a proper Porsche GT this time with a proper Porsche GT engine unlike the 981. Easily worth the additional money over the GTS IF a more focused car is want you want.

av185 said: Agree the 718 GT4 is great value nothing really comes close at the money it is 85% of a GT3 and a proper Porsche GT this time with a proper Porsche GT engine unlike the 981. Easily worth the additional money over the GTS IF a more focused car is want you want. But it is not a proper Gt engine it’s the same as the Gts albeit an ECU tweak for a few more hp. Some prefer the 981 engine although deristricted!

GT4P said: av185 said: Agree the 718 GT4 is great value nothing really comes close at the money it is 85% of a GT3 and a proper Porsche GT this time with a proper Porsche GT engine unlike the 981. Easily worth the additional money over the GTS IF a more focused car is want you want. But it is not a proper Gt engine it’s the same as the Gts albeit an ECU tweak for a few more hp. Some prefer the 981 engine although deristricted! Really? Derestricted? A detuned elderly and strangled boggo Carrera S engine with a huge torque hole dire economy and low rev limit that doesn't like being revved out v an almost bespoke contemporary 8k rev limit engine designed specifically for the new 718 GT4? Strangely the experts disagree with you. Take your pick from those in the know including EVO and Car.... Edited by av185 on Thursday 29th June 08:47

Roma101 said: Thank you very much for the offer. Pretty sharpish, unfortunately. I think the car has arrived in the U.K. I haven’t signed the cancellation form yet, but I’ve had the conversation with the dealer. Therefore, probably a matter of days! Ah I’m away til the 6th so I probably can’t help then. I’ve recently sold my CGTS 4.0 and whilst it was a lovely car for long trips I really don’t miss it. I love the 718 Spyder and can’t see me not having one in the garage. I’m fact I’d happily add a GT4 to go alongside and as long as it didn’t have buckets and was PDK I’d daily it tbh. OK my daily isn’t some people’s daily journey and I do have an electric car to hop into when I need some quiet for a couple of days.

OP - I purchased a GT4 on impulse, but sort of realised it wasn't the car for me for various reasons, so I let it go.. I enjoyed it while I had it and drove it circa 4,000 miles and got my money back, so not too much risk. I think the comfort seats will help with the practicality. I don't really miss it or hanker after another, but life is about great experiences, rather than regretting not doing something. Good luck with your decision. G

Surely the answer to to OP’s problem is to keep the GTS and take delivery of the GT4. You’re welcome.

I had a GTS 4.0 mt and sold it when I got an allocation for my GT4 pdk. I went for standard seats as I plan to use it for touring holidays and maybe the odd track day. Never regretted it for a second, feels way more special, PDK is awesome and despite some negative comments about it not being a proper GT engine it’s a stunning ownership proposition. For me, good as the GTS was, I just felt that I was driving the bridesmaid, second 11, B team car. The ride in the GT4 is remarkably compliant and there is no other Porsche that I would rather own for the money. It’s a relative bargain and it’s a GT car, the last of the NA breed and sure of legendary status. The opportunity the have a brand new car in your spec is a rare privilege I would suggest you think carefully before giving it up.

I recently went from a manual 718 CGTS 4.0 to a PDK 718 Spyder - so very similar to yourself. In my instance 100% the right move, car feels more focussed and in my opinion really suits the PDK box

you only live once , and you might not be in a fortunate position to get one again or any special car for that matter.. just get the GT4 its a dream car for a peasant like me

Gio G said: OP - I purchased a GT4 on impulse, but sort of realised it wasn't the car for me for various reasons, so I let it go.. I enjoyed it while I had it and drove it circa 4,000 miles and got my money back, so not too much risk. I think the comfort seats will help with the practicality. I don't really miss it or hanker after another, but life is about great experiences, rather than regretting not doing something. Good luck with your decision. G Yeah for me the buckets where a no go, look lovely and great feel when driving, but a real pain when you want to get in and out of the damn thing. I am 6" and average build. On my 2nd 718 GT4 now after a manual 718 GT4 and 718 Spyder. Went with PDK this time and have to say I am really loving it, I do think it is better suited to this engine and I haven't missed having a manual yet, I am 2,000 miles in..... Edited by diffstar on Thursday 29th June 15:05

Roma101 said: Thank you very much for the offer. Pretty sharpish, unfortunately. I think the car has arrived in the U.K. I haven’t signed the cancellation form yet, but I’ve had the conversation with the dealer. Therefore, probably a matter of days! I will take it Send me the details

I have both a 991.2 GT3 PDK and a 981 GT4. Love both. Whilst the GT4 might not have the straight line pace, it is one of the best sounding motors i have experienced. Mine has headers so it just ups the volume, but going through the gears is truly an experience. Its way louder than the GT3. Dont let people put you off the 981- theres a reason the 981/718 price spread has compressed so much- and its not just because they made tonnes more of the new one.

For the avoidance of doubt there actually isn't a huge difference between the 'manuel' gearbox 981 GT4 and 718 GT4 UK production numbers.

av185 said: For the avoidance of doubt there actually isn't a huge difference between the 'manuel' gearbox 981 GT4 and manual 718 GT4 numbers but on the whole twice as many 718 gt4 have arrived in the UK so far Corrected for you to save any doubt on your play on numbers!

According to how-many-left there are just under 1000 718 GT4s vs 554 981 GT4… which comes through in used market… almost 4x as many 718s as 981s on A/T. 56 vs 15. Being a listed company now, its all a numbers game.

av185 said: GT4P said: av185 said: Agree the 718 GT4 is great value nothing really comes close at the money it is 85% of a GT3 and a proper Porsche GT this time with a proper Porsche GT engine unlike the 981. Easily worth the additional money over the GTS IF a more focused car is want you want. But it is not a proper Gt engine it’s the same as the Gts albeit an ECU tweak for a few more hp. Some prefer the 981 engine although deristricted! Really? Derestricted? A detuned elderly and strangled boggo Carrera S engine with a huge torque hole dire economy and low rev limit that doesn't like being revved out v an almost bespoke contemporary 8k rev limit engine designed specifically for the new 718 GT4? Strangely the experts disagree with you. Take your pick from those in the know including EVO and Car.... Edited by av185 on Thursday 29th June 08:47 Which is why Porsche themselves have continued to use the 981 engine in the 718 GT4 Clubsport ... NOT your "proper Porsche GT" motor in the 4.0 718 GT4 ... ? The hole in the torque curve can be resolved with a modified 981GT4 running at the same pace as a 718GT4 ... so a relatively high mileage 981GT4 could be a great starting point for a relatively inexpensive track day project, and it has a motor now well proven in Porsche motorsport

GT4P said: av185 said: For the avoidance of doubt there actually isn't a huge difference between the 'manuel' gearbox 981 GT4 and manual 718 GT4 numbers but on the whole twice as many 718 gt4 have arrived in the UK so far Corrected for you to save any doubt on your play on numbers! No play on numbers at all. Simply hard facts.

ChrisW. said: Which is why Porsche themselves have continued to use the 981 engine in the 718 GT4 Clubsport ... NOT your "proper Porsche GT" motor in the 4.0 718 GT4 ... ? The hole in the torque curve can be resolved with a modified 981GT4 running at the same pace as a 718GT4 ... so a relatively high mileage 981GT4 could be a great starting point for a relatively inexpensive track day project, and it has a motor now well proven in Porsche motorsport They probably use the 981 lump as more reliable, have heard of issues with the new lump! Plus the 718 has its noise strangled by GPF. Long term I think the 981 will be the one most sort after!

ChrisW. said: Which is why Porsche themselves have continued to use the 981 engine in the 718 GT4 Clubsport ... NOT your "proper Porsche GT" motor in the 4.0 718 GT4 ... ? The hole in the torque curve can be resolved with a modified 981GT4 running at the same pace as a 718GT4 ... so a relatively high mileage 981GT4 could be a great starting point for a relatively inexpensive track day project, and it has a motor now well proven in Porsche motorsport Good points Chris. I have owned both the 981 GT4 and 718 GT4 from new (also a 981 Spyder from new) and the 981s are a great package no question but as previously posted I would rate the 718GT4 as effectively 85% of a 991.2 GT3 (which I have also owned from new) and the 981 as perhaps 70% to 75%.

The GTS can go anywhere but the GT4 can't because the front is too low and there is no lift option. That's fine if you are never going to take the GT4 to any of those places but not really practical for a "daily"

GT4P said: ChrisW. said: Which is why Porsche themselves have continued to use the 981 engine in the 718 GT4 Clubsport ... NOT your "proper Porsche GT" motor in the 4.0 718 GT4 ... ? The hole in the torque curve can be resolved with a modified 981GT4 running at the same pace as a 718GT4 ... so a relatively high mileage 981GT4 could be a great starting point for a relatively inexpensive track day project, and it has a motor now well proven in Porsche motorsport They probably use the 981 lump as more reliable, have heard of issues with the new lump! Plus the 718 has its noise strangled by GPF. Long term I think the 981 will be the one most sort after! The 718 GT4 Clubsport race car was launched prior to the road car so it couldn't use the 4.0 as it wasn't actually available at that point. They continued to use the 3.8 litre because it was used in the 981 Clubsport, teams were familiar with it, it meant the 981 and 718 cars could compete on a equal footing and it kept costs down which was the whole point of the Cayman Clubsport. It had nothing to do with it being a better engine, or more reliable etc.

130R said: The GTS can go anywhere but the GT4 can't because the front is too low and there is no lift option. That's fine if you are never going to take the GT4 to any of those places but not really practical for a "daily" 100 % correct, good sensible honest post 👍

Twinfan said: The 718 GT4 Clubsport race car was launched prior to the road car so it couldn't use the 4.0 as it wasn't actually available at that point. They continued to use the 3.8 litre because it was used in the 981 Clubsport, teams were familiar with it, it meant the 981 and 718 cars could compete on a equal footing and it kept costs down which was the whole point of the Cayman Clubsport. It had nothing to do with it being a better engine, or more reliable etc. Fully aware of that, but the 4.0 has had problems since launch ie stop production, replacement engines!

GT4P said: Fully aware of that, but the 4.0 has had problems since launch ie stop production, replacement engines! There was a factory fault early doors and some random cases of failures. To be expected with anything new. Nothing is perfect, not even the 3.8

GT4P said: Fully aware of that, but the 4.0 has had problems since launch ie stop production, replacement engines! Those were down to production line robot issues not torquing bolts up properly. Since then no major design related issues reported. Seems like the 4.0 9A2 EVO will likely be used in a future 911 hybrid also. The debate around the engines is largely moot IMO... if you are willing to, for about £1k, you can get a very good live remap for the 981 which will bring you up to about 410hp/450NM - it will improve the dips and really wake the car up. The 4.0 might probably still be a bit ballsier overall, however to me its linearity is both a pro and con. The differences between the two generations are much more than just the engine IMO.

GT4P said: Plus the 718 has its noise strangled by GPF. The 718 GT4 has far superior induction noise across its wider rev range compared to the 981 GT4. I won't mention the other obvious attributes of the newer 718 engine such as better performance higher red line more power and torque at lower revs stop start cylinder deactivation and way better economy. :

av185 said: The 718 GT4 has far superior induction noise across its wider rev range compared to the 981 GT4. I think this bit is very subjective to be honest. 'Superior' is a quite strong lol. av185 said: I won't mention the other obvious attributes of the newer 718 engine such as better performance higher red line more power and torque at lower revs stop start cylinder deactivation and way better economy. : Yes, the 4.0 is still ballsier overall... and I do like the modern features and the fact it is quite clean and efficient given the capacity and performance output.

Tyrone, what is your view on the alleged minor steering differences if any between the 981 GT and 718? My 981 had Dunlop Max cups the 718 has Michelins which may well account for any minor difference.

TDT said: Yes, the 4.0 is still ballsier overall... and I do like the modern features and the fact it is quite clean and efficient given the capacity and performance output. ^ this. I think it's a cracking engine in performance terms, and yes I'm fully aware I have a biased opinion!

OP, if you are really stretching yourself to get into a 718 GT4 I'd say stick with what you have. The GTS 4.0 is a great car, personally I would have gone PDK in that, but too late for you as yours is a manual, however, a great car and a very nice car to use every day. I also do not have any experience of a 718 GT4, however, I do own a 981 GT4 with Club Sport spec as I wanted that sense of occasion when driving the car. I've owned mine for just over three years now and have no plans to sell it, thankfully I own it outright. Would I drive my GT4 everyday , no I wouldn't but it can be driven daily. The front splitter is a very cheap replacement but annoying when it scrapes almost anything. I have an old 3 series BMW Touring workhorse as a second car which cost me next to nothing and is great at doing the daily stuff. They say life is too short and you only live once, but I'd say don't screw yourself financially for a car. Good luck with what you choose to do.

av185 said: Tyrone, what is your view on the alleged minor steering differences if any between the 981 GT and 718? My 981 had Dunlop Max cups the 718 has Michelins which may well account for any minor difference. There is definitely a difference... 718 is lighter feeling. But I think, it's only something you'd notice if you've had experience of both cars, and then you just get used to it after few mins/mls of driving, same for the clutch and the manual gearshift.

Twinfan said: TDT said: Yes, the 4.0 is still ballsier overall... and I do like the modern features and the fact it is quite clean and efficient given the capacity and performance output. ^ this. I think it's a cracking engine in performance terms, and yes I'm fully aware I have a biased opinion! “I'm fully aware I have a biased opinion” Never a truer word said. Look how far you’ve come. You used to argue until you were blue in the face that you were not biased by the car you owned. I’m proud of you.

paralla said: “I'm fully aware I have a biased opinion” Never a truer word said. Look how far you’ve come. You used to argue until you were blue in the face that you were not biased by the car you owned. I’m proud of you. I'm not sure what your issue is with me, or what I've said in the past that's offended you? But hey, whatever. If having sly digs at strangers on the internet makes you feel good then so be it Edited by Twinfan on Friday 30th June 11:02

Twinfan said: paralla said: “I'm fully aware I have a biased opinion” Never a truer word said. Look how far you’ve come. You used to argue until you were blue in the face that you were not biased by the car you owned. I’m proud of you. I'm not sure what your issue is with me, or what I've said in the past that's offended you? But hey, whatever. If having sly digs at strangers on the internet makes you feel good then so be it Edited by Twinfan on Friday 30th June 11:02 I agreed with a statement you made about yourself and gave you a compliment on your personal growth. Not a “sly dig” at all. Take the compliment. History tells me you like to have the last word so I’ll give that to you……..

paralla said: Twinfan said: paralla said: “I'm fully aware I have a biased opinion” Never a truer word said. Look how far you’ve come. You used to argue until you were blue in the face that you were not biased by the car you owned. I’m proud of you. I'm not sure what your issue is with me, or what I've said in the past that's offended you? But hey, whatever. If having sly digs at strangers on the internet makes you feel good then so be it Edited by Twinfan on Friday 30th June 11:02 I agreed with a statement you made about yourself and gave you a compliment on your personal growth. Not a “sly dig” at all. Take the compliment. History tells me you like to have the last word so I’ll give that to you…….. A little patronising though, I think

Personal growth? Sounds sarcastic to me rather than complimentary. What ARE you on about?

av185 said: The 718 GT4 has far superior induction noise across its wider rev range compared to the 981 GT4. I won't mention the other obvious attributes of the newer 718 engine such as better performance higher red line more power and torque at lower revs stop start cylinder deactivation and way better economy. : Lol so we know the 718 sounds cr*p so now its being narrowed down to “induction noise”. What BS. If you look at any review on the 981, the noise is considered to be one of the best sounding modern Porsches- hence why JCR is getting very rich from 718 owners chasing that- but it never comes close even after spending the best part of £10k. Speed i will give you, bringing sound into it is a joke.

R33FAL said: Lol so we know the 718 sounds cr*p so now its being narrowed down to “induction noise”. What BS. If you look at any review on the 981, the noise is considered to be one of the best sounding modern Porsches- hence why JCR is getting very rich from 718 owners chasing that- but it never comes close even after spending the best part of £10k. Speed i will give you, bringing sound into it is a joke. Don't forget that oh so wider rev range band from 7,800 to 8,000!!!!

I don't post much in here, but even as a casual viewer I thought it was widely accepted that av185 relentlessly talks up every car he has as the most desirable, and when the topic is the car itself, he hones in on talking up the specific specification he has as the most desirable.

I think as a car enthusiast, all the objective stuff falls by the wayside when the subjective 'dream' stuff enters the fray. A GT4 A new PDK GT4 that you've specced.... just have it. or the GTS you've already had for a while.... An amazing package or the shiny new amazing package..... vs £30k you'd easily mitigate by savvy p/ex, or flipping or whatever.... mitigate a lot anyway. Front splitter is a disposable item, just get used to the idea it will take some abuse (non-visible abuse unless you bump into a high kerb) Ride and noise will all be new to you and will either form part of the 'specialness' or will prompt moving it on and changing again. I'd be wanting to experience the best I could get, the best I could afford. If you can afford it, do it, you can always roll back if necessary... I've been on a few threads saying similar but going from an S2000 to a 981 Spyder and reading/listening to all the combative banter, I simply couldn't give a sh!t.... the car is amazing and I'll love it for as long as I can afford it or for as long as I can get my frame in and out of the fixed buckets

I had to go for a walk to think about this. How do you cheese pare two / three great but comparable cars when everybody is perfectly entitled to their own preferences ? It's no secret that the original GT4 was hobbled by Porsche and that some of those things were solved with the 718 variant ... of course some were unfixed with particulate filters / unhelpful order allocations by OPC's / and re-fixed with the evolution of the GT4 and the various modifications now available to make it whatever you want it to be. Never the fastest but possibly the most cost effective, versatile and involving adrenaline rush on the market? In the beginning P upset me by not allowing me to buy the next GT4 (never wanted a GT3 over a GT4) ... then I spent so much making my car the most cost effective way of having fun that I should never sell it. And now with various classic Porsche dalliances I as a driver am possible getting slower / more grown-up ? / and still the best GT4 / RS argument rages on The truism that remains is that the learning is in the journey ... whilst having a lot of fun in other classic Porsche's I'm going to pick up my own driver skills in the car that I built to do it in the most cost effective way ... I think that's where the personal development cuts closest as I shun the idea that age may be a physical issue rather than a state of mind ? Until of course one physically can't for some reason, not got there yet! My suggestion ? Buy the variant of Cayman / 718 that is closes to what you really really want, and modify it to make it truly yours, Then work with it to create the best driver / car partnership you can. The learning IS in the journey ... there are very few rights and wrongs and of course, set the controls for a budget that fits.

TDT said: Those were down to production line robot issues not torquing bolts up properly. Since then no major design related issues reported. Seems like the 4.0 9A2 EVO will likely be used in a future 911 hybrid also. The debate around the engines is largely moot IMO... if you are willing to, for about £1k, you can get a very good live remap for the 981 which will bring you up to about 410hp/450NM - it will improve the dips and really wake the car up. The 4.0 might probably still be a bit ballsier overall, however to me its linearity is both a pro and con. The differences between the two generations are much more than just the engine IMO. Who's your "go to" for a live remap and does it lend itself to tuning if you are happy to stick with the oe headers and porsche sport exhaust setup on a 981 GT4?

GAD Tuning, and yep they’ll do a stage 1 remap only, on OEM hardware. They’ve done quite a few cars that I know with various stages from stage 1 to 3 (full hardware package) All go well, with decent results. Edited by TDT on Friday 30th June 23:12

ChrisW. said: My suggestion ? Buy the variant of Cayman / 718 that is closes to what you really really want, and modify it to make it truly yours, Then work with it to create the best driver / car partnership you can. The learning IS in the journey ... there are very few rights and wrongs and of course, set the controls for a budget that fits. Yep!

TDT said: GAD Tuning, and yep they’ll do a stage 1 remap only, on OEM hardware. They’ve done quite a few cars that I know with various stages from stage 1 to 3 (full hardware package) All go well, with decent results. Edited by TDT on Friday 30th June 23:12 Ok cheers for that will have a look for them. Edit to add - quite the dyno cell they have there! Looked at a few of their 981 videos on their FB page! Edited by 200Plus Club on Saturday 1st July 07:02

rawenghey said: specific specification Widely accepted by you perhaps. Strange then I only recently posted how I have some spec regrets about my 718 GT4 such as lack of electric mirrors and auto dim.

If you’re thinking of cancelling a GT4 order then i think you have your answer. As for 718GTS verses GT4 then also look at the total cost to own if using finance. I like the GT4 and have almost MY perfect spec but it’s not cheap and sometimes a fun older car gives me more pleasure than an expensive new one. Maybe Porsche should have a better parts price for more classic models and also the road tax issue affects those 2005-2015 cars which is just a joke from Gordon Brown…. Oh and the internet forums rarely gives answers, normally just more questions….

TDT said: GAD Tuning, and yep they’ll do a stage 1 remap only, on OEM hardware. They’ve done quite a few cars that I know with various stages from stage 1 to 3 (full hardware package) All go well, with decent results. Edited by TDT on Friday 30th June 23:12 Is it possible to message you or vice versa regarding this please ?

200Plus Club said: TDT said: GAD Tuning, and yep they’ll do a stage 1 remap only, on OEM hardware. They’ve done quite a few cars that I know with various stages from stage 1 to 3 (full hardware package) All go well, with decent results. Edited by TDT on Friday 30th June 23:12 Is it possible to message you or vice versa regarding this please ? Pm sent

av185 said: rawenghey said: specific specification Widely accepted by you perhaps. Strange then I only recently posted how I have some spec regrets about my 718 GT4 such as lack of electric mirrors and auto dim. Does that seriously worry you? I find it all a bit surreal

Andyoz said: av185 said: rawenghey said: specific specification Widely accepted by you perhaps. Strange then I only recently posted how I have some spec regrets about my 718 GT4 such as lack of electric mirrors and auto dim. Does that seriously worry you? I find it all a bit surreal Doesn't worry me in the slightest and I can still sleep at night! It was merely in response to someone claiming mine was meant to be the 'perfect spec'. :