911 time... 996, 997, 991! - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

So a few years ago well back in 2012 i bought a lovely 2004 996. It was a very late car and had the special order code so was in Cobalt blue with some lovely extras. I enjoyed it for a few years but for various reasons ended up trading it and bought a very late 986s which i still own. The 986s has been a brilliant car and a lot of fun but now i have a young daughter it just doesn't get used. I have an itch for a performance car that i can use with my partner and young daughter. The 986 is still low miles and the best specced 986 i have seen, it sadly still isn't worth a lot and the easiest thing to do will be to part ex it. So, my options are get back into a 996. This would probably be a C4S. I am thinking of a convertible and ideally a tiptronic and source one with a fresh engine. I have zero interest in driving quickly any longer but it is nice to have the bhp under the right foot when required. £20kish Option 2 would be a 997. This would be an early version with the lower tax grade so 05 and again tiptronic. Ideally i think it would be sensible to go for something with a rebuilt engine, ideally Hartech. I know many will probably say dont worry etc etc the percentage of failure is small but one with a Hartech engine wont actually cost that much extra compared to actually paying for a hartech engine if a failure occurs, so why buy one that doesn't have hurt a previous owners wallet? £25kish. After looking at option 3 the 997 looks very dated internally. Option 3 is something that i thought would be well out of my price range but i have been studying the propspect of a 991.1. These are certainly a lot more modern and look superb. I cant find any major concerns with mass severe failures. I have even seen some at OPC level as approved used within budget which come with a very attractive two year warranty. Mileage doesn't bother me but i would like to retain some value in it to recoup my cash if needed. I am patient and happy to wait for a great spec so Sports plus, chrono, sports seats, PDK, PSE and any other bonus options. Budget would be £50kish. Is it a good time or is it shrewd to wait a bit longer, they seem to be on a downward spital at the moment so it is knowing when to jump on board. What would you do? I have a Tesla Y on a lease that goes back in December. I can get another one if needed as a company vehicle or i could use the 911 as a daily/weekend/work toy. I also use a Caddy van as my main daily vehicle which does the job very well and most of my mileage. How do we feel 991 prices are going to go? 996 etc are set firmly in stone now for the future i feel. But the 991 is in a place where they still command a premium but the tech is semi old now and i would imagine could be ruinous in the maintenance in coming years with failures, mainly electronics? Can they hold current values? Another option i haven't even researched would be finance on something a lot newer via OPC, with all the safety of warranty etc and try and beat the depreciation curve with financing but i think i am a bit late to that party. Dam. Any help, advice, mick taking or criticism very welcome. What would you do?

996 and 997 are probably at the bottom of the depreciation curve but you'll pay to maintain them. 991.1, with a warranty is a shrewd buy if you want t have zero/small costs for maintenance but they will depreciate slowly and you'll pay OPC tax for the purchase in the first place. If it were me, I'd seek out a nice 997 Gen 2 (or a Gen 1 with a the engine sorted) from one of the main specialists like 911V and you'll have a modern enough car which shouldn't cost you an awful lot to maintain and will give you the driving thrills when needed. A Gen 2 PDK Cab is not that common a spec so you could get a decent deal, but only if you jumped in now before Spring.

I did a very similar analysis recently. I like some of the 996 models such as the C4S, and while they can be very good value for money right now, I needed an auto and was not a fan of tiptronic (unless in a 996 turbo). I was too concerned about the reliability issues of the 997.1, so would had to be a .2 (better engine), plus PDK which is much smoother. I also think good 997s should be at the bottom of their depreciation, so a better deal in particular if buying through (currently expensive) finance. I was seriously tempted by a 991.1, because of the more modern cabin and creature comforts. But the 997 has always been my favourite generation. I’ve also heard that the 991.1 has more small reliability issues being the first of its generation. And while tax is lower than the 997, maintenance can be more expensive. Also, should continue depreciating for a bit, 991s and (good spec) 997s are overlapping. So I stretched the budget and went for a decent (mid market) 997.2 GTS. Good luck buying! Would love to see what you went for in the end.

Hartech 997.1 is a good option if you buy from the right owner. It's not just about the rebuilt engine. Hartech go through the whole car ad produce a detailed list of any faults / suggested works. Some owners dip in, others don't. I said yes to everything and now own Trigger's broom. And a 4.1

Appreciate it's higher than your initial budget but I would be considering a 996 Turbo if you were looking at the Tiptronic... The power delivery suits the auto quite well and there are definitely options around the mid/high 20s.. and of course the Mezger engine doesn't have the IMS/scoring issues that (a minority of) the NA cars suffer. Convertibles are less desirable so you should be able to get a good one. Just need to remember that they're still expensive cars to maintain (as are all 911's) If a 997, I'd definitely be looking to get one with a rebuild - they command a small premium but I believe they'll always own that premium as part of the resale so you're not really losing out A 991 is objectively a better car but I do believe they still have some price to fall, as opposed to the two older models which are fairly low on the depreciation curve

Plus with the newer PCCM, the 997.2 feels a lot more modern than a .1

I think I would go 997.2, really fancy a GT3. Still sound good and before they really became bloatware.

If thinking the 911 is better than Boxster because of your daughter, move on past the Convertible. Rear seats are unusable. Left field and marmite I know, but I enjoyed my 997 Targa. Some air, some rear seats and great practicality with the rear hatch A 997.2 Targa GTS viable ? Hell of a car IMHO and maybe a bargain as many will be sniffy about the weight VCG of glass How about (something like ): https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/12938809 Edited by PushedDover on Sunday 3rd March 00:09 Edited by PushedDover on Sunday 3rd March 00:10

Of those choices I’d go 991 with PDK transmission. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?advertisin...

Of those choices I’d go 991 with PDK transmission. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?advertisin...

I’d definitely go with PDK if you don’t want a manual gearbox. So either 997.2 or 991.1….I think on balance I would probably go for a 997.2 if I was worried about depreciation. A lot more 991’s around. With regards to the size question the 997.2 feels smaller/narrower because the glasshouse is narrower but the track width’s are quite similar.

I’d go 991.1 if funds permit.

Are the seats in rear of any 911 (inc. 991) convertible for a 10yr old plus though ?

Depends on the size of them. I have my 11 and 13 year old in the back of my 997 C4S Cab for short journeys.

Have you considered a 997.2? No bore score, hydraulic steering (if you care about that) still small. Edited by FriedMarsBar on Monday 4th March 11:35

That’s great to hear. I’ve never even sat in one, let alone driven unfortunately but 911 (likely manual 997.1 or 991) I’m hoping to get, but have been worried about if my kids soon ish to be 7 and 10 could/would fit. Feel like I can’t go for a ‘test drive’ as they’re older cars so unable to just walk into a Porsche garage for a trial and test drive. Appreciate you mentioning that. Good luck with your search @M3333. Although the spec I’m after is different (pretty sure I want a manual and definitely not a cab) I’m also considering some similar models (hartech 997.1 or possible 991) Keep us posted how you get on

I beleive theres's quite a bit more space in the back of 991

I’m biased to the 997, albeit I have a huge appreciation for the others. There’s no bad option here, just different ones. You mentioned the interior of the 997 - I will say to check out the PCCM+ for the 997.1, as it really lifts the interior and brings modern conveniences like carplay. Not an option for the 997.2 mind.

FriedMarsBar said: I beleive theres's quite a bit more space in the back of 991 Thank you, super useful to know abucd4 said: I’m biased to the 997, albeit I have a huge appreciation for the others. There’s no bad option here, just different ones. You mentioned the interior of the 997 - I will say to check out the PCCM+ for the 997.1, as it really lifts the interior and brings modern conveniences like carplay. Not an option for the 997.2 mind. Yes, I’ve seen this a if it were 997.1 (as opposed to 991) then that’d be a must installation for me. I’m leaning more towards the 997 as really have a soft spot for them and the look but with @FriedMarsBar comments regarding rear space I’m keen to find a way to compare the two.

As said Coupe (or Targa) vs Convertible =different rear seat space so make sure you pick the right comparisons

FriedMarsBar said: https://youtu.be/dzqRERe6DmY?si=wWd0rf0HTRhSwNU- Not sure this will help with space in the back of the 991 but maybe My eldest is now 5 10 but when I got my first 997,3 years ago, I guess she was 5 8 or 9 then, she hated the back of the 997 even then. You need to get to a dealer who has few cars Not sure which bit was more painful to watch, the kid putting his muddy feet all over the light coloured interior, or the woman shutting the door with the glass.

On my 5th 911 now (various generations of C2s and C4s) and my view would be: 996: Proper 911 to drive, less macho than a 964 but still great handling. Interior is a bit plasticky, but for the money is quite a bargain I reckon. 997: I know others like them, but I found mine dull. It was like they ironed out the fun of the 911 to make it more comfortable and lost half the joy. 991.1: Best car I’ve ever owned. Is notably larger than a 997 and feels much better appointed inside, yet the handling is still terrific. It also looks gorgeous. So on driving pleasure alone I’d vote 991 followed by 996, and skip the ‘neither fish nor fowl’ 997.

https://youtu.be/dzqRERe6DmY?si=wWd0rf0HTRhSwNU- Not sure this will help with space in the back of the 991 but maybe My eldest is now 5 10 but when I got my first 997.1 3 years ago, I guess she was 5 8 or 9 then, she hated the back of the 997 even then. You need to get to a dealer who has few cars Edited by FriedMarsBar on Thursday 7th March 14:19

ThunderSpook said: Not sure which bit was more painful to watch, the kid putting his muddy feet all over the light coloured interior, or the woman shutting the door with the glass. Haha I hadn't noticed the mess he made! I was watching one of Clarkson's 911 videos and he did the same thing, I guess test/demo cars have a harder life than personal cars.

M3333 said: The 986 is still low miles and the best specced 986 i have seen, it sadly still isn't worth a lot and the easiest thing to do will be to part ex it. Send me some details please. Either a reply here - no need for any cloak and dagger. Or a PM - up to You.

ThunderSpook said: Not sure which bit was more painful to watch, the kid putting his muddy feet all over the light coloured interior, or the woman shutting the door with the glass. Definitely the muddy feet.

monsieurblack said: FriedMarsBar said: I beleive theres's quite a bit more space in the back of 991 Thank you, super useful to know abucd4 said: I’m biased to the 997, albeit I have a huge appreciation for the others. There’s no bad option here, just different ones. You mentioned the interior of the 997 - I will say to check out the PCCM+ for the 997.1, as it really lifts the interior and brings modern conveniences like carplay. Not an option for the 997.2 mind. Yes, I’ve seen this a if it were 997.1 (as opposed to 991) then that’d be a must installation for me. I’m leaning more towards the 997 as really have a soft spot for them and the look but with @FriedMarsBar comments regarding rear space I’m keen to find a way to compare the two. Depends also on how tall you are, and how much of a low-rider you are? At 5' 8" and a preference to be closer to the wheel (track driving God, natch), a similar size of adult can fit behind. They'd not want to for long but it's doable... And the kids fit as well.

If you've decided on a 997.1 Look for a S with the x51 option. A pal has a bit of an unicorn car. C2S, x51, m030, hardback seats and factory short shift. Epic. Someone spent some serious money on making probably the ultimate factory non gt 997. x51 power pack on the 997 (I'm sure someone will chip in if I'm not 100%) is proper old school tuning. Carbon fiber intake, different heads, cam, and exhaust manifolds, sports exhaust and a rev limit increase. I think the quoted up lift in power is 25hp, it was bought of 911V and they reckon the increase is more like 40. It screams, the noise is fantastic, it is a proper thing and mint too. Might be difficult to find the x51, but worth the effort from what I've seen. Ive had a few 911, have a 992 T manual (which I love) now as a daily, my pals 997 is much more of an event than mine, and just as quick. Edited by killysprint on Wednesday 13th March 10:36

I'd been looking between these cars too albeit i wanted a coupe and a manual c2. In the end there was only one winner for the money, the 996. Lots of them have had a fortune spent on them now and you can spend a bit more for a well sorted one. I do tend to like older cars anyway though and the dated interior of the 996 is right up my street. The 996's seem a perfect mix of old and new. I'd have been into a nice 997 for what i paid for my 996 but i found unless it was a gt3, i liked the aging 996 better anyway. I did hit it lucky with a 996 that had all the options you could ever want, however, X51, LSD, M030, Aero kit, hard back sports seat, full carbon interior etc. It's a bit of a buyers market at the moment and just set up some search alerts and see what pops up!