996 c4s is this best value Porsche out there right now - Page 5 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Check out Porsche prices on a daily basis and am a proud owner of a mint seal grey 996 c4s,having owned the car 5years now often wonder if I could upgrade.This is no easy feat as in my eyes I would have to spend 35k to get something considerably better i.e. gen 2 997..The overall package of running costs,stunning looks and value for money seems almost impossible to top.. Is this best value Porsche right now with great examples being about the 17k mark

Tino Lazarou said: Check out Porsche prices on a daily basis and am a proud owner of a mint seal grey 996 c4s,having owned the car 5years now often wonder if I could upgrade.This is no easy feat as in my eyes I would have to spend 35k to get something considerably better i.e. gen 2 997..The overall package of running costs,stunning looks and value for money seems almost impossible to top.. Is this best value Porsche right now with great examples being about the 17k mark Well you did ask so I'll throw in my two penneth 996 C4S great looking car and all the 996 range great value for money if you get a sorted one, but the daddy in terms of best value, cost to performance, and dare I say reliability, has to be 996 TURBO!

Yeah but I tidy turbo is a fair amount more to buy and also in terms of running costs the turbo costs more to service and maintain with generally..I do like the Turbo but not enough to swap as looks wise think is slightly uglier,albeit the faster on paper.. The n/a engine makes it a better daily I think also as you can rack on miles would not fancy a near 100k turbo.. Good shout though

stubbsy996 said: Well you did ask so I'll throw in my two penneth 996 C4S great looking car and all the 996 range great value for money if you get a sorted one, but the daddy in terms of best value, cost to performance, and dare I say reliability, has to be 996 TURBO! Did reply but forgot to quote your comment it's on thread though if u wanna look ..thanks for reply

993 coupe , £30k now, £100k next year, now thats value lol

jonttt said: 993 coupe , £30k now, £100k next year, now thats value lol The 993 is amazing in wide body form gotta b one of the most pretty 911s ever..There values are nuts nothing would surprise me.

964 C2 with subtle upgrades to brakes, suspension, exhaust and chip... Modern'ish pure classic, still not gone through the roof, best ever all round 911.

Best value Porsche IMO is the Boxster. Best value 911 is the 993 of course

911Viking said: 964 C2 with subtle upgrades to brakes, suspension, exhaust and chip... Modern'ish pure classic, still not gone through the roof, best ever all round 911. Good call the 993 is a bit predictable for me gotta love the classic 911 look of 964

Solarized said: Best value Porsche IMO is the Boxster. Best value 911 is the 993 of course BOXSTER im not feeling sorry,993 cool car B-)

I've never seen the 964 as a special car. It looks too ordinary. Doesn't it have a swing axle too? The 993 however, especially with the widebody, is a fabulous looking thing. It was interesting to see that EVO found it a disappointment and the 996 a surprising revelation - did that article change values at all? For me the 996 is the runt of the litter; inbetween the handsome 993 and 997. However the C4S is the exception - the 996 that went to the gym! I agree they are good value, but will it be a future classic and therefore likely to appreciate? Hmm. My issue with the current market is that ANY 911 seems to be collectable at the moment; surely that's unsustainable...

IMO the 993 is the prettiest 911 to date. To me they got the design perfect and turned it into an automotive work of art. The WB models are indeed beautiful but for me the narrow bodied 993s have the best proportions. The rear is wider like the earlier Turbos. Must be one of the prettiest arses out there. The front wings aren't as defined as earlier models but the bumper integration looks much better. I suspect as cars get more bloated and mainstream the compact 993 will become even more appealing and distinctive.

hondansx said: I've never seen the 964 as a special car. It looks too ordinary. Doesn't it have a swing axle too? The 993 however, especially with the widebody, is a fabulous looking thing. It was interesting to see that EVO found it a disappointment and the 996 a surprising revelation - did that article change values at all? For me the 996 is the runt of the litter; inbetween the handsome 993 and 997. However the C4S is the exception - the 996 that went to the gym! I agree they are good value, but will it be a future classic and therefore likely to appreciate? Hmm. My issue with the current market is that ANY 911 seems to be collectable at the moment; surely that's unsustainable... I love wide body 911s carreras its kind of gets the great looks from turbo without the OTT spoilers etc and air intakes.993 Turbo my dream 911 if money was no object..But for me for under a litle over 15k 996 C4s an amazing package

Yep. I have a C4S and Turbo and the wing and air intakes distract from the widebody shape; the purity of the non-turbos only accentuates the shape

I'd agree with the OP about the 996 C4S. A great looking modern classic 911 and vastly under-rated as a drivers car. Personally I've never really liked the 993. I thought it looked great back in the day, but to my eyes it now looks a bit dated and I much prefer the earlier classic 911 look. Whereas the 996 C4S still looks like a modern car and only the interior dates it a bit. If I was looking for a £20K 911, the 996 C4S would be high on my shortlist for sure. Incidentally the 997.2 C4S looks even better to me, although obviously a lot more money. I think Porsche hit a peak with the 997.2 styling as it looks great from every angle, especially the C4S. The 991 rear end looks a bit iffy in comparison, although the 991 front end is arguably a further step forward. All IMHO of course!

I miss mine dearly, the pse sound was very addictive and indeed the car was handsome. I bought mine in 07 for a fair whack and even then thought it was good value. Looking back the brakes, suspension and power was not that great compared to modern standards but still fun.

uktrailmonster said: I'd agree with the OP about the 996 C4S. A great looking modern classic 911 and vastly under-rated as a drivers car. Personally I've never really liked the 993. I thought it looked great back in the day, but to my eyes it now looks a bit dated and I much prefer the earlier classic 911 look. Whereas the 996 C4S still looks like a modern car and only the interior dates it a bit. If I was looking for a £20K 911, the 996 C4S would be high on my shortlist for sure. Incidentally the 997.2 C4S looks even better to me, although obviously a lot more money. I think Porsche hit a peak with the 997.2 styling as it looks great from every angle, especially the C4S. The 991 rear end looks a bit iffy in comparison, although the 991 front end is arguably a further step forward. All IMHO of course! I defo agree the gen 1 997s cant compare with 996 c4s the gens 2s areamazing def an improvement in looks etc.In fact think nicer than 991.

hondansx said: Yep. I have a C4S and Turbo and the wing and air intakes distract from the widebody shape; the purity of the non-turbos only accentuates the shape The 996 turbo and ugly sod from some angles..997 turbo lovely i must say

If looking for a wide body, which is not really where 911's come from, then look to 996, 997, 991... 993 looks the ugly duckling in between thing, its not an original 911 look and its far inferior to its more moderne water cooled 911's that are also wide bodied. I had a few 993's years ago when they were new and yes they are more advanced than a 964 or 3.2/SC, but they have no original 911 charm and in any way they are a less car than any 996. Don't understand the appreciation, but then again there are many things I don't understand. 964 C2 with the subtle upgrades or RS... Best ever overall 911, I rest my case. And I am not at all biased jut because I have 3x 964's :-)

Tino Lazarou said: Yeah but I tidy turbo is a fair amount more to buy and also in terms of running costs the turbo costs more to service and maintain with generally..I do like the Turbo but not enough to swap as looks wise think is slightly uglier,albeit the faster on paper.. The n/a engine makes it a better daily I think also as you can rack on miles would not fancy a near 100k turbo.. Good shout though I'm in the same position as you having bought a 996 C4S three months ago. Love the car. The C4S shares a lot of parts with the turbo though. Brakes, suspension, aircon rads, coolant rads so general maintenance of a turbo compared with a 996 C4S would be pretty similar I reckon. Also, the turbo runs with the Mezger engine which is a lot more solid than the regular engines found in the C2 and C4 variants. With the turbo engine, you don't have to worry about bore scoring or IMS and RMS problems so much. Sure, you may have to change the turbo for a new unit at 100,000 miles but I'd rather that than have to deal with a whole engine rebuild with new parts. I love my C4S but I'd have a turbo in a heartbeat.

A good early 997 Carrera is pretty good value if bought with care. Early 20's?

Ive have a 996 turbo, a 996 C4S, 996 C4 and now have a 997 turbo and have to say the '4S was a fantastic well rounded drivers car. So good in fact my view on the car hasn't been tainted by the much quicker turbo. Great value great car bargain price.

Por911T said: Ive have a 996 turbo, a 996 C4S, 996 C4 and now have a 997 turbo and have to say the '4S was a fantastic well rounded drivers car. So good in fact my view on the car hasn't been tainted by the much quicker turbo. Great value great car bargain price. Your one lucky guy the 996 c4s my first 911 so your opinion is great to hear considering you have have so many..I love my C4s xxx

KungFuPanda said: Tino Lazarou said: Yeah but I tidy turbo is a fair amount more to buy and also in terms of running costs the turbo costs more to service and maintain with generally..I do like the Turbo but not enough to swap as looks wise think is slightly uglier,albeit the faster on paper.. The n/a engine makes it a better daily I think also as you can rack on miles would not fancy a near 100k turbo.. Good shout though I'm in the same position as you having bought a 996 C4S three months ago. Love the car. The C4S shares a lot of parts with the turbo though. Brakes, suspension, aircon rads, coolant rads so general maintenance of a turbo compared with a 996 C4S would be pretty similar I reckon. Also, the turbo runs with the Mezger engine which is a lot more solid than the regular engines found in the C2 and C4 variants. With the turbo engine, you don't have to worry about bore scoring or IMS and RMS problems so much. Sure, you may have to change the turbo for a new unit at 100,000 miles but I'd rather that than have to deal with a whole engine rebuild with new parts. I love my C4S but I'd have a turbo in a heartbeat. They wont need engine rebuild this stuff mostly the 3:4 units the rms is nothing but a washer that u change when you replace the clutch,its not as bad as people say..I do like turbo dontget me wrong just dont reakon itsworth extra head ache with servicing etc and dont look as good..997 turbo yes looks great not so much in 996 form

KungFuPanda said: Tino Lazarou said: Yeah but I tidy turbo is a fair amount more to buy and also in terms of running costs the turbo costs more to service and maintain with generally..I do like the Turbo but not enough to swap as looks wise think is slightly uglier,albeit the faster on paper.. The n/a engine makes it a better daily I think also as you can rack on miles would not fancy a near 100k turbo.. Good shout though I'm in the same position as you having bought a 996 C4S three months ago. Love the car. The C4S shares a lot of parts with the turbo though. Brakes, suspension, aircon rads, coolant rads so general maintenance of a turbo compared with a 996 C4S would be pretty similar I reckon. Also, the turbo runs with the Mezger engine which is a lot more solid than the regular engines found in the C2 and C4 variants. With the turbo engine, you don't have to worry about bore scoring or IMS and RMS problems so much. Sure, you may have to change the turbo for a new unit at 100,000 miles but I'd rather that than have to deal with a whole engine rebuild with new parts. I love my C4S but I'd have a turbo in a heartbeat. They wont need engine rebuild this stuff mostly the 3:4 units the rms is nothing but a washer that u change when you replace the clutch,its not as bad as people say..I do like turbo dontget me wrong just dont reakon itsworth extra head ache with servicing etc and dont look as good..997 turbo yes looks great not so much in 996 form

KungFuPanda said: Tino Lazarou said: Yeah but I tidy turbo is a fair amount more to buy and also in terms of running costs the turbo costs more to service and maintain with generally..I do like the Turbo but not enough to swap as looks wise think is slightly uglier,albeit the faster on paper.. The n/a engine makes it a better daily I think also as you can rack on miles would not fancy a near 100k turbo.. Good shout though I'm in the same position as you having bought a 996 C4S three months ago. Love the car. The C4S shares a lot of parts with the turbo though. Brakes, suspension, aircon rads, coolant rads so general maintenance of a turbo compared with a 996 C4S would be pretty similar I reckon. Also, the turbo runs with the Mezger engine which is a lot more solid than the regular engines found in the C2 and C4 variants. With the turbo engine, you don't have to worry about bore scoring or IMS and RMS problems so much. Sure, you may have to change the turbo for a new unit at 100,000 miles but I'd rather that than have to deal with a whole engine rebuild with new parts. I love my C4S but I'd have a turbo in a heartbeat. They wont need engine rebuild this stuff mostly the 3:4 units the rms is nothing but a washer that u change when you replace the clutch,its not as bad as people say..I do like turbo dontget me wrong just dont reakon itsworth extra head ache with servicing etc and dont look as good..997 turbo yes looks great not so much in 996 form

ktlcyprus said: They wont need engine rebuild this stuff mostly the 3:4 units the rms is nothing but a washer that u change when you replace the clutch,its not as bad as people say..I do like turbo dontget me wrong just dont reakon itsworth extra head ache with servicing etc and dont look as good..997 turbo yes looks great not so much in 996 form There is most definitely a risk of a rebuild on a 3.6. My 996 3.6 was rebuilt by Hartech due to bore scoring at 55K miles and it's certainly not the only one! However, having said that I'd still buy one - but with a rock solid warranty in place.

uktrailmonster said: ktlcyprus said: They wont need engine rebuild this stuff mostly the 3:4 units the rms is nothing but a washer that u change when you replace the clutch,its not as bad as people say..I do like turbo dontget me wrong just dont reakon itsworth extra head ache with servicing etc and dont look as good..997 turbo yes looks great not so much in 996 form There is most definitely a risk of a rebuild on a 3.6. My 996 3.6 was rebuilt by Hartech due to bore scoring at 55K miles and it's certainly not the only one! However, having said that I'd still buy one - but with a rock solid warranty in place. if you look on internet I'm sure you will find horror stories on the turbo also in fact any car..A well respected porsche specialist in Cardiff reakons gen 1 997s are far worse than 3:6 996s and he's been in business for 20years plus..It's all luck of the draw..

Tino Lazarou said: .I do like the Turbo but not enough to swap as looks wise think is slightly uglier, albeit the faster on paper.. The n/a engine makes it a better daily An astonishing thing to claim when comparing the fastest 996 to the slowest. Faster on paper, and much much faster in practice. I also take issue with the daily comment, clearly you've never driven a Turbo, the ridiculous torque makes it fabulous daily, and an excellent drive when not "on it" Por911T said: Ive have a 996 turbo, a 996 C4S, 996 C4 and now have a 997 turbo and have to say the '4S was a fantastic well rounded drivers car. So good in fact my view on the car hasn't been tainted by the much quicker turbo. Great value great car bargain price. I will concede the C4S is the best looking 996, I would have bought one, but found the prices of Turbos too close to ignore.

Some interesting points thanks...But when I upgrade eventually will defo want a 997..996 turbo just don't push my buttons,it's kinda like a ugly woman who's great in bed..lol.

I'd take an ugly woman who's good in bed every day of the week and twice on Sundays. But then again, I never was too shallow....

FeelingLucky said: I'd take an ugly woman who's good in bed every day of the week and twice on Sundays. But then again, I never was too shallow.... Hehehe

This thread is of interest to me, as I am considering spending money on a 911 and have been reading up for a while now. (Having previously owned hot hatches and skylines and a cayenne.) I have never driven a 911, so this is all based on preference, and things I've read: The best value Porsche (911) seems to be the 'Carrera 2'. I say this as rear wheel drive is more appealing, to me at least. I've even read of C4S owners removing the 4 wheel drive components. This, coupled with only the small power hike of the C4S, extra weight, and the 50% price hike, means its really hard to overlook the C2. Admittedly the wide-body of the C4S is more attractive. Personally, I also prefer the original 996 headlights (sans the amber indicator section), they seem to flow better with the smooth 1990's shape of the car. Whereas the revised headlights look forced and angular. The 996 C2 seems a whole lot of bang for the buck. I would prefer a 997 C2, but its a struggle to justify the 100% price increase over the 996. Just my 2 cents based on many hours of trying to pick my next car! Ger

ktlcyprus said: I defo agree the gen 1 997s cant compare with 996 c4s the gens 2s areamazing def an improvement in looks etc.In fact think nicer than 991. Can't agree with that tbh. Gen 1 997s are better in every way than the 996 c4s. Value might not be the same thing, but in terms of looks, performance and handling they're on another level IMHO.

I decided to go for the 996 C4S Convertible after much reading/researching. I could have got a nice 997 but just couldn't pull my eyes off the 996 - I think it is much better looking outside but a bit dated inside. It had to be the C4S with the PSE. I wanted a road trip car for trips to Scotland & Europe (only been to Wales so far). I have an E36 M3 for hooning about in so the C4S ticked all the boxes for me. To be totally honest, it is taking some time to fully appreciate the car and at first I didn't think it was that good... now i have done some more miles and got used to it I'm well impressed. 2 complaints: black is a bloody nightmare to keep looking good and the headlights are so bad I would class them as dangerous. Make sure you get Xenon's!

mattiselvis said: Can't agree with that tbh. Gen 1 997s are better in every way than the 996 c4s. Value might not be the same thing, but in terms of looks, performance and handling they're on another level IMHO. More opinions than facts around here for sure.

One correction. 996 C4S has the same power as the 996 C2. 320bhp. The pre facelift model had 300bhp.

jonttt said: 993 coupe , £30k now, £100k next year, now thats value lol Hope not, after just selling mine I would be gutted!!!

Tino Lazarou said: Yeah but I tidy turbo is a fair amount more to buy and also in terms of running costs the turbo costs more to service and maintain with generally..I do like the Turbo but not enough to swap as looks wise think is slightly uglier,albeit the faster on paper.. The n/a engine makes it a better daily I think also as you can rack on miles would not fancy a near 100k turbo.. Good shout though The turbo doesn't really cost more to maintain. I have seen C4S running costs and my turbo was no more expensive to run. Not sure exactly how an n/a engine makes it 'a better daily', and the turbo engine is not prone to the wide reported engine problems of the C4S/C2/C4 (whatever your view is on how common these issues are). Not knocking the C4S at all - it is a great car - but I personally think the turbo is the best value Porsche out there right now .

monthefish said: Tino Lazarou said: Yeah but I tidy turbo is a fair amount more to buy and also in terms of running costs the turbo costs more to service and maintain with generally..I do like the Turbo but not enough to swap as looks wise think is slightly uglier,albeit the faster on paper.. The n/a engine makes it a better daily I think also as you can rack on miles would not fancy a near 100k turbo.. Good shout though The turbo doesn't really cost more to maintain. I have seen C4S running costs and my turbo was no more expensive to run. Not sure exactly how an n/a engine makes it 'a better daily', and the turbo engine is not prone to the wide reported engine problems of the C4S/C2/C4 (whatever your view is on how common these issues are). Not knocking the C4S at all - it is a great car - but I personally think the turbo is the best value Porsche out there right now . Just bit excessive for a daily and if it's not a Manual the margin is even less in terms of performance,but u got a muted exhaust not higher fuel and servicing costs and an uglier looking car..U also got pay a fair amount more to buy to begin with,it all adds up..

ktlcyprus said: monthefish said: Tino Lazarou said: Yeah but I tidy turbo is a fair amount more to buy and also in terms of running costs the turbo costs more to service and maintain with generally..I do like the Turbo but not enough to swap as looks wise think is slightly uglier,albeit the faster on paper.. The n/a engine makes it a better daily I think also as you can rack on miles would not fancy a near 100k turbo.. Good shout though The turbo doesn't really cost more to maintain. I have seen C4S running costs and my turbo was no more expensive to run. Not sure exactly how an n/a engine makes it 'a better daily', and the turbo engine is not prone to the wide reported engine problems of the C4S/C2/C4 (whatever your view is on how common these issues are). Not knocking the C4S at all - it is a great car - but I personally think the turbo is the best value Porsche out there right now . Just bit excessive for a daily and if it's not a Manual the margin is even less in terms of performance,but u got a muted exhaust not higher fuel and servicing costs and an uglier looking car..U also got pay a fair amount more to buy to begin with,it all adds up.. Not doubting it's a superior car but for me not worth the extra.

ktlcyprus said: monthefish said: Tino Lazarou said: Yeah but I tidy turbo is a fair amount more to buy and also in terms of running costs the turbo costs more to service and maintain with generally..I do like the Turbo but not enough to swap as looks wise think is slightly uglier,albeit the faster on paper.. The n/a engine makes it a better daily I think also as you can rack on miles would not fancy a near 100k turbo.. Good shout though The turbo doesn't really cost more to maintain. I have seen C4S running costs and my turbo was no more expensive to run. Not sure exactly how an n/a engine makes it 'a better daily', and the turbo engine is not prone to the wide reported engine problems of the C4S/C2/C4 (whatever your view is on how common these issues are). Not knocking the C4S at all - it is a great car - but I personally think the turbo is the best value Porsche out there right now . Just bit excessive for a daily and if it's not a Manual the margin is even less in terms of performance,but u got a muted exhaust not higher fuel and servicing costs and an uglier looking car..U also got pay a fair amount more to buy to begin with,it all adds up.. Looks are entirely subjective. The C4 will perform as well as a C4S, but for £7k less. So, using your justifications above, the C4 must be the best value Porsche out there right now? I think the reality of the situation is a combination of ktlcyprus said: am a proud owner of a mint seal grey 996 c4s + but it's great that you love your car. We're all happy for you.

monthefish said: + but it's great that you love your car. We're all happy for you. it's just the only model in the 996 range that still looks stunning in my eyes the narrow body 996s look dated,like I said mayb money ain't an object for you but for me I want the sexiest looking 911 for the least amount and a manual c4s in seal grey certainly ticked all my boxes.Call me a poser but I take looks over performance anytime..

c4 cant brake or corner as fast

Callughan said: c4 cant brake or corner as fast By how much?

monthefish said: Callughan said: c4 cant brake or corner as fast By how much? I doubt this is true when the 4S is about what, 150kg heavier?

Your all but one just talking about cars you like and ignoring the obvious which is that the best value pork is a plain jane early 996 C2 manual. I love the look of the C4S and a good friend of ours has a mint one but its plainly not the best value on any level, this is crazy nonsense really, if anything its the worst value amongst all of the 986/996 cars.

NJH said: Your all but one just talking about cars you like and ignoring the obvious which is that the best value pork is a plain jane early 996 C2 manual. I love the look of the C4S and a good friend of ours has a mint one but its plainly not the best value on any level, this is crazy nonsense really, if anything its the worst value amongst all of the 986/996 cars. Finally!

LordHaveMurci said: NJH said: Your all but one just talking about cars you like and ignoring the obvious which is that the best value pork is a plain jane early 996 C2 manual. I love the look of the C4S and a good friend of ours has a mint one but its plainly not the best value on any level, this is crazy nonsense really, if anything its the worst value amongst all of the 986/996 cars. Finally! I can respect that they are crazy cheap but for me they haven't aged to well..A 3.6 996 C2 looks a lot better than early one but worlds below the C4s in the looks department... Gotta b one of best value Porsches though totally agree.

ktlcyprus said: Gotta b one of best value Porsches though totally agree. And that is the title of the thread, not 'the C4S is the best looking'.

My 2p: If you value looks a lot, 6C4S is probably the best value If you value driving/performance, a plain jane (as a prev poster put it) 6C2 is the way to go. Looks and performance combined? I'd throw in a 6C2 with the GT3 aero kit - the pre face lift cars especially look awesome with it IMO. My mate has one, probably worth say £12k on a good day with its 90k miles, drives beautifully, looks fab and with a €400 Carnewal exhaust, also sounds the dogs danglies. If he ever chops it in for a DB9 like he's threatening to do, I'm tempted to have it off him on principle!

LordHaveMurci said: ktlcyprus said: Gotta b one of best value Porsches though totally agree. And that is the title of the thread, not 'the C4S is the best looking'. Yeah but I know what title is but it's not good value if u don't like the look of the car is it ..You need the package..

This thread stupid now everyone just says there car is best which is fair enough cause that's reason they bought it,just makes for a silly debate.il change title to everyone say why there car is best.. Lol

Mario149 said: My 2p: If you value looks a lot, 6C4S is probably the best value If you value driving/performance, a plain jane (as a prev poster put it) 6C2 is the way to go. Looks and performance combined? I'd throw in a 6C2 with the GT3 aero kit - the pre face lift cars especially look awesome with it IMO. My mate has one, probably worth say £12k on a good day with its 90k miles, drives beautifully, looks fab and with a €400 Carnewal exhaust, also sounds the dogs danglies. If he ever chops it in for a DB9 like he's threatening to do, I'm tempted to have it off him on principle!

Mario149 said: My 2p: If you value looks a lot, 6C4S is probably the best value If you value driving/performance, a plain jane (as a prev poster put it) 6C2 is the way to go. Looks and performance combined? I'd throw in a 6C2 with the GT3 aero kit - the pre face lift cars especially look awesome with it IMO. My mate has one, probably worth say £12k on a good day with its 90k miles, drives beautifully, looks fab and with a €400 Carnewal exhaust, also sounds the dogs danglies. If he ever chops it in for a DB9 like he's threatening to do, I'm tempted to have it off him on principle! No way a pre face lift one,come on..

ktlcyprus said: Mario149 said: My 2p: If you value looks a lot, 6C4S is probably the best value If you value driving/performance, a plain jane (as a prev poster put it) 6C2 is the way to go. Looks and performance combined? I'd throw in a 6C2 with the GT3 aero kit - the pre face lift cars especially look awesome with it IMO. My mate has one, probably worth say £12k on a good day with its 90k miles, drives beautifully, looks fab and with a €400 Carnewal exhaust, also sounds the dogs danglies. If he ever chops it in for a DB9 like he's threatening to do, I'm tempted to have it off him on principle! No way a pre face lift one,come on.. The face lift c2 is good shout but not pre face lift

ktlcyprus said: ktlcyprus said: Mario149 said: My 2p: If you value looks a lot, 6C4S is probably the best value If you value driving/performance, a plain jane (as a prev poster put it) 6C2 is the way to go. Looks and performance combined? I'd throw in a 6C2 with the GT3 aero kit - the pre face lift cars especially look awesome with it IMO. My mate has one, probably worth say £12k on a good day with its 90k miles, drives beautifully, looks fab and with a €400 Carnewal exhaust, also sounds the dogs danglies. If he ever chops it in for a DB9 like he's threatening to do, I'm tempted to have it off him on principle! No way a pre face lift one,come on.. The face lift c2 is good shout but not pre face lift As the man says, a 6C2 with aerokit looks awesome.

monthefish said: ktlcyprus said: ktlcyprus said: Mario149 said: My 2p: If you value looks a lot, 6C4S is probably the best value If you value driving/performance, a plain jane (as a prev poster put it) 6C2 is the way to go. Looks and performance combined? I'd throw in a 6C2 with the GT3 aero kit - the pre face lift cars especially look awesome with it IMO. My mate has one, probably worth say £12k on a good day with its 90k miles, drives beautifully, looks fab and with a €400 Carnewal exhaust, also sounds the dogs danglies. If he ever chops it in for a DB9 like he's threatening to do, I'm tempted to have it off him on principle! No way a pre face lift one,come on.. The face lift c2 is good shout but not pre face lift As the man says, a 6C2 with aerokit looks awesome. What ever floats your boat guys. We all like different s t ...

ktlcyprus said: monthefish said: ktlcyprus said: ktlcyprus said: Mario149 said: My 2p: If you value looks a lot, 6C4S is probably the best value If you value driving/performance, a plain jane (as a prev poster put it) 6C2 is the way to go. Looks and performance combined? I'd throw in a 6C2 with the GT3 aero kit - the pre face lift cars especially look awesome with it IMO. My mate has one, probably worth say £12k on a good day with its 90k miles, drives beautifully, looks fab and with a €400 Carnewal exhaust, also sounds the dogs danglies. If he ever chops it in for a DB9 like he's threatening to do, I'm tempted to have it off him on principle! No way a pre face lift one,come on.. The face lift c2 is good shout but not pre face lift As the man says, a 6C2 with aerokit looks awesome. What ever floats your boat guys. We all like different s t ... I think the pre face lift with aero kit works because it reminds you of the mk1 6GT3, and the mk2 6GT3 with the facelift lights just somehow doesn't look as good to my eye! Conversely, if we were talking regular C2, I think the facelift lights look better! Can't explain why!

Mario149 said: ktlcyprus said: monthefish said: ktlcyprus said: ktlcyprus said: Mario149 said: My 2p: If you value looks a lot, 6C4S is probably the best value If you value driving/performance, a plain jane (as a prev poster put it) 6C2 is the way to go. Looks and performance combined? I'd throw in a 6C2 with the GT3 aero kit - the pre face lift cars especially look awesome with it IMO. My mate has one, probably worth say £12k on a good day with its 90k miles, drives beautifully, looks fab and with a €400 Carnewal exhaust, also sounds the dogs danglies. If he ever chops it in for a DB9 like he's threatening to do, I'm tempted to have it off him on principle! No way a pre face lift one,come on.. The face lift c2 is good shout but not pre face lift As the man says, a 6C2 with aerokit looks awesome. What ever floats your boat guys. We all like different s t ... I think the pre face lift with aero kit works because it reminds you of the mk1 6GT3, and the mk2 6GT3 with the facelift lights just somehow doesn't look as good to my eye! Conversely, if we were talking regular C2, I think the facelift lights look better! Can't explain why! Hmm..I def think face lift is better but that's just me,the shared boxster front end just ain't to my liking.A nice 997 C2 is fantastic value and still looks fresh id take that over 996 c2 .There isn't much dif in price as there yo be had around 15k mark

vinnie83 said: RatBoy M3CSL said: If you want a turbo, get one, but don't be surprised that your first service comes in @ £7-8K, with rads/turbo's/MAF/coil packs/boost leaks/clutch etc etc.. they can be hideously expensive for the ill advised or uninformed buyer. Edited by RatBoy M3CSL on Monday 21st July 22:33 I would be shocked to get a bill that big had I purchased with open eyes and a half decent inspection! Rads - you can see quite easily if this is going to be an issue. MAF and coil packs - cause misfires... why would you buy if these items are causing a poor running car? Boost leaks - drive more than a couple and you will spot a car with a boost leak quickly... do the 996's have boost gauges? if so, you can see here. And a split hose is hardly thousands. Clutch - how is this any more difficult to spot than on a C4S? They share the same AWD system in 996 guise no? (Someone will correct me if so)..... Not to mention the majority are tip... Beware those that try to convince you that these cars cost many times over to run vs. the non turbo cars.. this is just not true... Yes, there are potential for bigger bills, but this is in the event of major failure... they don't cost THAT much more to run than the non turbo cars unless a major part fails. Do your research, use the forums, get an inspection and you won't end up with a first service any more costly than the actual service! This is the most expensive sounding conversation iv heard on this thread by a long shot..it's like turbo owners talk bout the worst scenarios on other models like there expected to happen but make out only small stuff can happen on there's ,nothing major hmm.. I

Oh yeah and a 996 turbo in auto is even less point as the gap is even smaller in performance as it loses half a second..

ktlcyprus said: Oh yeah and a 996 turbo in auto is even less point as the gap is even smaller in performance as it loses half a second.. Eh? You can get a Carrera auto too.

ktlcyprus said: This is the most expensive sounding conversation iv heard on this thread by a long shot..it's like turbo owners talk bout the worst scenarios on other models like there expected to happen but make out only small stuff can happen on there's ,nothing major hmm.. I I didn't mention at all about the worst scenarios on the other models, I stated that it's not true that a turbo is horrendously expensive vs. the non turbo models. I haven't put down the C4s in this thread at all, so I don't get the defensive response... they're great cars, but I was responding to another post that the turbos cost a fortune to maintain, which isn't true.

mollytherocker said: ktlcyprus said: Oh yeah and a 996 turbo in auto is even less point as the gap is even smaller in performance as it loses half a second.. Eh? You can get a Carrera auto too. I think the newbie may be trolling. The turbo is the only 996 tiptronic I would consider as it has the power/torque to overcome the gearboxes shortcomings.

100% agreed on that. We had a 968 with a tip box and it kills it as a sports car compared to the sweet 6 speed manual. The big engined mercs also manage OK due to the massive grunt from those engines.

I hated the old slush box and would have never opted for one having had 12 manual 911's. My current car is a tip and with 550 BHP i'm glad, its an absolute beauty to drive, no need to take the hands off the wheel and with that sort of power a godsend, trust me. Also no over revs to worry about. In terms of tips been slower in the real world its bollax in fact you can't make the errors like you can with a manual so in reality i would suggest they are quicker. On a previous thread maintenance was highlighted. Rads-Easy to check MAF if this is faulty it comes up as a ABS/PSM fault. Boost leaks will be evident by driving the car and check boost pressure on the LED display should boost in standard form at 0.7-0.8 depending on fuel octane and ambient temp which all effect boost. Clutches can go on any cars you have to remember that these are near on 200mph cars so the amount of torque going through the clutch is vast. Going back to the C4S i think they are lovely cars, fantastic to look at and with the PSE epic to listen too. Fantastic value also far better than the 993 C4S i owned which was dull as dishwater.

Crimp a Length! said: Going back to the C4S i think they are lovely cars, fantastic to look at and with the PSE epic to listen too. Fantastic value also far better than the 993 C4S i owned which was dull as dishwater. Agree....but think the beards will be displeased.

monthefish said: mollytherocker said: ktlcyprus said: Oh yeah and a 996 turbo in auto is even less point as the gap is even smaller in performance as it loses half a second.. Eh? You can get a Carrera auto too. I think the newbie may be trolling. The turbo is the only 996 tiptronic I would consider as it has the power/torque to overcome the gearboxes shortcomings. Hardly trolling is it just saying a manual carrera not much in it compared with auto turbo,if anything better and more involving cause the auto box takes away the performance gains..997 auto faster but 996 turbos no point in my eyes in auto form

vinnie83 said: ktlcyprus said: This is the most expensive sounding conversation iv heard on this thread by a long shot..it's like turbo owners talk bout the worst scenarios on other models like there expected to happen but make out only small stuff can happen on there's ,nothing major hmm.. I I didn't mention at all about the worst scenarios on the other models, I stated that it's not true that a turbo is horrendously expensive vs. the non turbo models. I haven't put down the C4s in this thread at all, so I don't get the defensive response... they're great cars, but I was responding to another post that the turbos cost a fortune to maintain, which isn't true. Stop being a baby just saying all I hear is rms this ims that but you all make out nothing can go wrong with turbo which is nonsense as iv heard of some insane bills for them..

NJH said: 100% agreed on that. We had a 968 with a tip box and it kills it as a sports car compared to the sweet 6 speed manual. The big engined mercs also manage OK due to the massive grunt from those engines. It's so true people on here going on about stats and zero to sixty times etc and they buy an auto..In the real world not when your down pub chatting with mates an auto is poo,fair enough PDK that's different but the older cars lose all the fun.I

ktlcyprus said: vinnie83 said: ktlcyprus said: This is the most expensive sounding conversation iv heard on this thread by a long shot..it's like turbo owners talk bout the worst scenarios on other models like there expected to happen but make out only small stuff can happen on there's ,nothing major hmm.. I I didn't mention at all about the worst scenarios on the other models, I stated that it's not true that a turbo is horrendously expensive vs. the non turbo models. I haven't put down the C4s in this thread at all, so I don't get the defensive response... they're great cars, but I was responding to another post that the turbos cost a fortune to maintain, which isn't true. Stop being a baby just saying all I hear is rms this ims that but you all make out nothing can go wrong with turbo which is nonsense as iv heard of some insane bills for them.. Seriously, what are you on? I don't see any turbo owners on here, let alone me, talking about RMS and IMS issues! You clearly have a chip on your shoulder chap, I simply said the turbo isn't as costly as people make out - I never put your car down - in fact I said the C4s is a great car. What exactly is your problem? Calm down chap, nobody here is trying to say there's anything wrong with your car nor is there any reason to throw insults.

vinnie83 said: ktlcyprus said: vinnie83 said: ktlcyprus said: This is the most expensive sounding conversation iv heard on this thread by a long shot..it's like turbo owners talk bout the worst scenarios on other models like there expected to happen but make out only small stuff can happen on there's ,nothing major hmm.. I I didn't mention at all about the worst scenarios on the other models, I stated that it's not true that a turbo is horrendously expensive vs. the non turbo models. I haven't put down the C4s in this thread at all, so I don't get the defensive response... they're great cars, but I was responding to another post that the turbos cost a fortune to maintain, which isn't true. Stop being a baby just saying all I hear is rms this ims that but you all make out nothing can go wrong with turbo which is nonsense as iv heard of some insane bills for them.. Seriously, what are you on? I don't see any turbo owners on here, let alone me, talking about RMS and IMS issues! You clearly have a chip on your shoulder chap, I simply said the turbo isn't as costly as people make out - I never put your car down - in fact I said the C4s is a great car. What exactly is your problem? Calm down chap, nobody here is trying to say there's anything wrong with your car nor is there any reason to throw insults. Sorry didn't realise every1 was this sensitive on this forum..Can't b bothered and didn't want to wind any1 up just saying people talk rubbish on here,I'm bored with it

Bye then.

monthefish said: Bye then. Key board warrior

6C4GTS said: Crimp a Length! said: Going back to the C4S i think they are lovely cars, fantastic to look at and with the PSE epic to listen too. Fantastic value also far better than the 993 C4S i owned which was dull as dishwater. Agree....but think the beards will be displeased. Agreed in full. I have considered/am toying with the idea of a 996C4S but I think I am scarred for life by the 993C4S experience.....

anonymous said: [redacted] Close to my ideal water cooled 911 I think

LordHaveMurci said: anonymous said: [redacted] Close to my ideal water cooled 911 I think Friend of mine has just removed the 4WD from her 996 turbo. Its pretty awesome, not quite GT2 awesome but still awesome none the less.

Sexual Chocolate said: Friend of mine has just removed the 4WD from her 996 turbo. Its pretty awesome, not quite GT2 awesome but still awesome none the less. Wouldn't it have been better just to have bought a GT2?

LordHaveMurci said: Wouldn't it have been better just to have bought a GT2? How much would that have cost? Speaking of value, surely the 996 Turbo is better value for money than the C4S?

That'll be why then! Yes, I bet it's a noticeably different car to drive now, better for some but not for others I suspect! Is she happy?

Not as happy as when I let her drive mine but she is enjoying the car. I like the 996 turbo. I Think it looks lovely, drives really well and is very comfortable. And at the price they are now you really do get a lot of car for your money.

LordHaveMurci said: Sexual Chocolate said: Friend of mine has just removed the 4WD from her 996 turbo. Its pretty awesome, not quite GT2 awesome but still awesome none the less. Wouldn't it have been better just to have bought a GT2? Car cost her 26K, to remove the 4WD (front) cost her £500 (weighs in around 75lbs). 3hrs labour by all accounts and a blanking plate on the gearbox. I did wonder though is it actually 1WD now or RWD? When I drove it I did think it needed a LSD. It did leave a nice 11 when I set off though. It also turns in a bit quicker but it doesn't seem any faster if you see what I mean. Edited by Sexual Chocolate on Wednesday 23 July 14:10 Edited by Sexual Chocolate on Wednesday 23 July 14:18

anonymous said: [redacted] Simple as that!

Callughan said: Simple as that! Although the thread title doesn't specify normally aspirated Porsche If it did I'd argue (almost just for the sake of it), that the 996 C2 is better value than the C4S.

IknowJoseph said: Callughan said: Simple as that! Although the thread title doesn't specify normally aspirated Porsche If it did I'd argue (almost just for the sake of it), that the 996 C2 is better value than the C4S. True but as said before whatever you personally like is the best value one.imo

ktlcyprus said: Sorry didn't realise every1 was this sensitive on this forum..Can't b bothered and didn't want to wind any1 up just saying people talk rubbish on here,I'm bored with it Are you reading the same posts that I am writing? You're clearly the one who is sensitive! I only responded with an opinion, you decided to insult in response! Get rid of the chip on your shoulder, it seems to be affecting the way in which you type and is making it difficult for the rest of us to understand you. Bye.

IknowJoseph said: Although the thread title doesn't specify normally aspirated Porsche If it did I'd argue (almost just for the sake of it), that the 996 C2 is better value than the C4S. doesn't look as good however....

BullyB said: IknowJoseph said: Although the thread title doesn't specify normally aspirated Porsche If it did I'd argue (almost just for the sake of it), that the 996 C2 is better value than the C4S. doesn't look as good however.... Naked? I agree. With Aerokit Cup, I'd say they're about the same.

LordHaveMurci said: anonymous said: [redacted] Close to my ideal water cooled 911 I think I've been suggesting this on PH for the last 2 years or so and was always poo-pooed! Now everyone likes the idea....honestly I despair!

I also brought it up a while ago & received a less than friendly response.

One of my favourite things about the turbo (and I imagine the c4s) is it's all weather capability. I can drive faster in the rain than I ever care to! Try that in the sl55 in even damp weather and it's useless. Surely a RWD turbo would be a nightmare?

Unless it's dark and you only have the standard headlights, then you can't drive in all weather as you can't see s t

Mario149 said: LordHaveMurci said: anonymous said: [redacted] Close to my ideal water cooled 911 I think I've been suggesting this on PH for the last 2 years or so and was always poo-pooed! Now everyone likes the idea....honestly I despair! ...isn't that the basic recipe for the 997 GTS, but without the power hike? A bit style over substance. Might as well be in a C2.

Callughan said: True but as said before whatever you personally like is the best value one.imo Ok, fair enough, so to go back to the title of the thread, the 996 C4S is the best value Porsche, if you're looking for a NA, widebodied, 4WD 911

IknowJoseph said: Ok, fair enough, so to go back to the title of the thread, the 996 C4S is the best value Porsche, if you're looking for a NA, widebodied, 4WD 911 I think to stop the arguments you need to amend that to "996 C4S is the best value Porsche, if you're looking for a NA, widebodied 996 in seal grey" Seems like the OP was in reality starting a thread about how much he loved his new car and if you say anything that suggests another car might be better in any respect then be prepared to be trolled to bits in an angry incomprehensible manner

"996 C4S is the best value Porsche, if you're looking for a NA, widebodied 996 in seal grey, otherwise its the 996 turbo''. Amended for you

Riyazc said: "996 C4S is the best value Porsche, if you're looking for a NA, widebodied 996 in seal grey, otherwise its the 996 turbo''. Amended for you Ha there's always someone who can take it that degree further

Truth is, I'm thinking about buying one of the actual "best value Porsche" maybe next year, maybe the year after. Couldn't possibly tell you what it is, however, as you'll all end up doing it and the prices will rocket.

Honest answer is best value porsche is the one you can afford and enjoy driving. Its as simple as that really. If you have ££££ then spending £250k on a 959 is great value, if you have £ then buying an old 924 is great value - long as u enjoy driving it.

Riyazc said: Honest answer is best value porsche is the one you can afford and enjoy driving. Its as simple as that really. If you have ££££ then spending £250k on a 959 is great value, if you have £ then buying an old 924 is great value - long as u enjoy driving it. Not really true that is it, just because you can afford it doesn't make it great value!

monthefish said: Mario149 said: LordHaveMurci said: anonymous said: [redacted] Close to my ideal water cooled 911 I think I've been suggesting this on PH for the last 2 years or so and was always poo-pooed! Now everyone likes the idea....honestly I despair! ...isn't that the basic recipe for the 997 GTS, but without the power hike? A bit style over substance. Might as well be in a C2. See what you mean, but it'd basically be the prettiest non-GT 996 money could buy and would only be about 50kg heavier than a C2. For the looks (I think a regular C2 is not a very good looking car, although the 6.1 is getting better with age), that's a weight penalty I'd be willing to pay. If someone forced me to sell my 993 daily driver, I'd probably take the money go down 6C2S route