911 Turbo vs. Turbo S - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Been pondering the difference, specifically with the 997.2 model. Any insight? Google isnt particularly forthcoming on this subject....

Have a read of the brochure, it outlines the specs and options on both turbo models: http://sportauto.ee/porsche/catalogues/911-997Turb...

Turbo S, it 's frightening. Buy one

There was no Turbo S in gen.1 so you could be debating a 997.1 Turbo Vs a 997.2 Turbo S. Biggest differences (for me) PDK only Turbo S which rules it out immediately for me, as I'd only have a manual. And that's what I have. 997.2 Turbo does NOT have the Metzga engine, which I'd imagine would put some off also. Save a packet, but a Manual 997.1 Turbo and have it modified to be faster than the S! What I did.

Get2Jaime said: Been pondering the difference, specifically with the 997.2 model. Any insight? Google isnt particularly forthcoming on this subject.... Most of the kit is standard on the S , but many super speced up the non S so you could find a bargin non S with all the S kit.

Isysman said: There was no Turbo S in gen.1 so you could be debating a 997.1 Turbo Vs a 997.2 Turbo S. Biggest differences (for me) PDK only Turbo S which rules it out immediately for me, as I'd only have a manual. And that's what I have. 997.2 Turbo does NOT have the Metzga engine, which I'd imagine would put some off also. Save a packet, but a Manual 997.1 Turbo and have it modified to be faster than the S! What I did. Would you bet your car with the mods it has to be faster than a stock S(both straight and track)? Edited by Callughan on Saturday 26th July 12:51

Callughan said: Isysman said: There was no Turbo S in gen.1 so you could be debating a 997.1 Turbo Vs a 997.2 Turbo S. Biggest differences (for me) PDK only Turbo S which rules it out immediately for me, as I'd only have a manual. And that's what I have. 997.2 Turbo does NOT have the Metzga engine, which I'd imagine would put some off also. Save a packet, but a Manual 997.1 Turbo and have it modified to be faster than the S! What I did. Would you bet your car with the mods it has to be faster than a stock S(both straight and track)? Edited by Callughan on Saturday 26th July 12:51 I've driven and been driven in Cargraphic 624 bhp stage 4 kit (£20,000 conversion) and FVD 650 bhp 3.8 litre (£50,000) gen 1 997 turbos. Both manual cars but think you can have these kits in tips too. Admittedly PDK in gen 2 Turbo S is superhuman but with a decent driver I think the gen 1 cars would murder a turbo S both on track and in straight line. I've spent track time in both and know how accomplished the gen 2 turbos S is but the cars above especially the FVD were savage and refined with it to boot (Cargraphic car felt completely OEM but FVD was just far too quick to feel OEM - roller coaster is the only other thing i've been in thats like it).

IMI A said: Callughan said: Isysman said: There was no Turbo S in gen.1 so you could be debating a 997.1 Turbo Vs a 997.2 Turbo S. Biggest differences (for me) PDK only Turbo S which rules it out immediately for me, as I'd only have a manual. And that's what I have. 997.2 Turbo does NOT have the Metzga engine, which I'd imagine would put some off also. Save a packet, but a Manual 997.1 Turbo and have it modified to be faster than the S! What I did. Would you bet your car with the mods it has to be faster than a stock S(both straight and track)? Edited by Callughan on Saturday 26th July 12:51 I've driven and been driven in Cargraphic 624 bhp stage 4 kit (£20,000 conversion) and FVD 650 bhp 3.8 litre (£50,000) gen 1 997 turbos. Both manual cars but think you can have these kits in tips too. Admittedly PDK in gen 2 Turbo S is superhuman but with a decent driver I think the gen 1 cars would murder a turbo S both on track and in straight line. I've spent track time in both and know how accomplished the gen 2 turbos S is but the cars above especially the FVD were savage and refined with it to boot (Cargraphic car felt completely OEM but FVD was just far too quick to feel OEM - roller coaster is the only other thing i've been in thats like it). Wouldn't say murder but FVD you mention would be quicker. Are you talking about Nick's car? Just saying with nothing more than remap a gen 1 manual esp DMS would not be quicker than a turbo S. Edited by Callughan on Saturday 26th July 16:02

Callughan said: IMI A said: Callughan said: Isysman said: There was no Turbo S in gen.1 so you could be debating a 997.1 Turbo Vs a 997.2 Turbo S. Biggest differences (for me) PDK only Turbo S which rules it out immediately for me, as I'd only have a manual. And that's what I have. 997.2 Turbo does NOT have the Metzga engine, which I'd imagine would put some off also. Save a packet, but a Manual 997.1 Turbo and have it modified to be faster than the S! What I did. Would you bet your car with the mods it has to be faster than a stock S(both straight and track)? Edited by Callughan on Saturday 26th July 12:51 I've driven and been driven in Cargraphic 624 bhp stage 4 kit (£20,000 conversion) and FVD 650 bhp 3.8 litre (£50,000) gen 1 997 turbos. Both manual cars but think you can have these kits in tips too. Admittedly PDK in gen 2 Turbo S is superhuman but with a decent driver I think the gen 1 cars would murder a turbo S both on track and in straight line. I've spent track time in both and know how accomplished the gen 2 turbos S is but the cars above especially the FVD were savage and refined with it to boot (Cargraphic car felt completely OEM but FVD was just far too quick to feel OEM - roller coaster is the only other thing i've been in thats like it). Wouldn't say murder but FVD you mention would be quicker. Are you talking about Nick's car? Just saying with nothing more than remap a gen 1 manual would not be quicker than a turbo S. Completely agree remap and zorst will not be on par with turbos S due to PDK. But yes Nicks car and the cargraphic both which have upgraded turbos would murder a turbos S in my view. Nicks is obviously in different class altogether with built 3.8l stroker. A turbo S is 35-40 secs 0-300kph depending on condition. Nicks car is probably sub 25 secs 0-300kph and the cargraphic kit is circa 25-28secs secs 0-300kph although Cargraphics own car which was significantly lightened (so not really fair comparison) did 0-300kph in 23 secs at an independent test and beat just about everything the test threw at it including all sorts of exotica . Thats massively quicker in real terms than a turbo S.

Yes amazing figures. I've also seen even 29 sec quoted for 7ts with the improved chassis it's a great product stock. ZeroH has a nice spreadsheet with all the figures Edited by Callughan on Saturday 26th July 16:58

IMI A said: Cargraphics own car which was significantly lightened (so not really fair comparison) did 0-300kph in 23 secs at an independent test and beat just about everything the test threw at it including all sorts of exotica . Thats massively quicker in real terms than a turbo S. They misquoted/lied for that 0-300 in 23s test, the engine had been rebuilt from the 624PS spec and actually had nearer 680PS. They may have kept the 624PS moniker as all cars tested were supposed to have TUV approval and only the 624PS kit had it.

Isysman said: There was no Turbo S in gen.1 so you could be debating a 997.1 Turbo Vs a 997.2 Turbo S. Biggest differences (for me) PDK only Turbo S which rules it out immediately for me, as I'd only have a manual. And that's what I have. 997.2 Turbo does NOT have the Metzga engine, which I'd imagine would put some off also. Save a packet, but a Manual 997.1 Turbo and have it modified to be faster than the S! What I did. 997. 2 Turbo doesnt have a Mezger??

Inverted said: 997. 2 Turbo doesnt have a Mezger?? Nope. It has the the totally new DFI.

TB993tt said: IMI A said: Cargraphics own car which was significantly lightened (so not really fair comparison) did 0-300kph in 23 secs at an independent test and beat just about everything the test threw at it including all sorts of exotica . Thats massively quicker in real terms than a turbo S. They misquoted/lied for that 0-300 in 23s test, the engine had been rebuilt from the 624PS spec and actually had nearer 680PS. They may have kept the 624PS moniker as all cars tested were supposed to have TUV approval and only the 624PS kit had it. Makes sense. Don't see how a 624bhp car even with 100kgs less could be putting those sort of numbers out. Its a nice enough kit though and feels OEM or rather how the car should have left Stuttgart in the first place. Also Nicks built FVD car with only 25bhp more is so much quicker than the above Cargraphic kit. On a motorway in clear traffic on open road I was shocked how quick it is. Got a bit of motion sickness it was do damn fast!

TB993tt said: They misquoted/lied for that 0-300 in 23s test, the engine had been rebuilt from the 624PS spec and actually had nearer 680PS. They may have kept the 624PS moniker as all cars tested were supposed to have TUV approval and only the 624PS kit had it. Don't think even 680 would get anywhere near 23 sec, in my experience you need a well build 725+ package to get a 23 sec run. And that's on a good day with no wind, light on fuel and possibly a light decline as well. 997's can be quick'ish to 220/240 kph, but they tail off when IAT' starts running wild... We'll build 680 would probably give you a fair 25 sec on a good day.

No doubt the S would be faster off the Mark but on the motorway etc wouldn't be faster. Anyway I'd still rather have the manual regardless.

mollytherocker said: Nope. It has the the totally new DFI. Every days a school day.. Thanks never new that.

911Viking said: Don't think even 680 would get anywhere near 23 sec, in my experience you need a well build 725+ package to get a 23 sec run. And that's on a good day with no wind, light on fuel and possibly a light decline as well. 997's can be quick'ish to 220/240 kph, but they tail off when IAT' starts running wild... We'll build 680 would probably give you a fair 25 sec on a good day. H, this car has the mega expensive Secan intercoolers so runs a solid 680PS. It was actually 23.8s 0-300. This car was specially lightened and did 0-200 in 9.1s with manual change !! so 200-300 was 14.7s which is about right for this level of real power on a 997.

TB993tt said: 911Viking said: Don't think even 680 would get anywhere near 23 sec, in my experience you need a well build 725+ package to get a 23 sec run. And that's on a good day with no wind, light on fuel and possibly a light decline as well. 997's can be quick'ish to 220/240 kph, but they tail off when IAT' starts running wild... We'll build 680 would probably give you a fair 25 sec on a good day. H, this car has the mega expensive Secan intercoolers so runs a solid 680PS. It was actually 23.8s 0-300. This car was specially lightened and did 0-200 in 9.1s with manual change !! so 200-300 was 14.7s which is about right for this level of real power on a 997. Makes sense T, good IC's makes huge diff when getting up in speed, should be one of the first places to spend monetos.... 23.8 is 24 sec :-) ... Real men only do manual, all that modern electronic traction and shifting stuff is for less skilled chaps, hahaha Btw, A few years ago in my 9e25 (which was a solid GPS 23 sec car) I did a bunch of roll ons with my mate in a 7.2TS, at low speed he was hanging on ie up to 120/130kph, but then distance started building and when 4th started to kick in the difference was massive. He actually got pissed off since there was a little pride going down the drain, he had no idea how big the diff was in a fast road car and a really fast road car. You coming to next VMax?

Callughan said: Wouldn't say murder but FVD you mention would be quicker. Are you talking about Nick's car? Just saying with nothing more than remap a gen 1 manual esp DMS would not be quicker than a turbo S. Edited by Callughan on Saturday 26th July 16:02 You a customer of DMS then? It's quite annoying to see people with no experience of theirs bashing them online. I've spoken to quite a few customers recently and not one has a bad word to say about them. So I'm betting you are not one, you just 'heard of a bloke' or 'have a mate' who had one? I am a customer and my car is excellent after the upgrades. Edited by Isysman on Monday 28th July 04:47

Anyhow back to the poor old OP and his original question which had nothing to do with 997.1 or monster conversions!! 997.2 turbo was manual or PDK, 500PS/493bhp 997.2 turbo S is PDK only, 530PS/523bhp extra kit on S that was cost option on non-S: PTV PCCB sports chrono dynamic engine mounts cornering headlights 19-inch RS Spyder alloys (standard turbo gen 2 alloys a NCO) kit that not sure if you could spec on non-S cars: two-tone leather sports seats and doors performance differences would be negligible but that is a lot of extra kit that was expensive to option on non-S, so depends on price difference of cars you are comparing as to whether its worht it or not. I really like the two tone seats/doors of S but prefer the design of the standard wheels over the fussy and delicate looking spyder alloys (plus the hassle of getting them off) S is really a run-out options bundle model much like the 996 turbo S IMHO Isysman said: the Metzga engine a kitten just died Edited by Adam B on Monday 28th July 12:37

As far as i remember, those who ordered a Turbo with a very good spec were told about the Turbo S, and s so went for one. So, the likelihood of finding a Turbo with Turbo S spec is pretty rare. I have seen one Turbo for sale which had everything but PCCB. You could argue this is perfect for someone who would have wanted to track their car. For me though, the PCCB are amazing for road use. Ultimately, if you have a car with PTV and Sports Chrono it's going to be a much better drive than a Gen 1.

hondansx said: Ultimately, if you have a car with PTV and Sports Chrono it's going to be a much better drive than a Gen 1. why? 20bhp more and PTV? Most 997.1 turbos are specced with sports chrono for overboost function Don't think normal drivers / road driving would reveal a huge difference

Isysman said: Callughan said: Wouldn't say murder but FVD you mention would be quicker. Are you talking about Nick's car? Just saying with nothing more than remap a gen 1 manual esp DMS would not be quicker than a turbo S. Edited by Callughan on Saturday 26th July 16:02 You a customer of DMS then? It's quite annoying to see people with no experience of theirs bashing them online. I've spoken to quite a few customers recently and not one has a bad word to say about them. So I'm betting you are not one, you just 'heard of a bloke' or 'have a mate' who had one? I am a customer and my car is excellent after the upgrades. Edited by Isysman on Monday 28th July 04:47 My bet was first I do have experience hence why I was unimpressed, mainly with a 997 turbo cab with dms and miltek and it did not feel that much faster than stock and had to really push againt 997.2s pdk we were with until higher speeds. Also other DMS cars at the meets I used to arrange and on track days didn't seem to carry the power they quote. Of course negative forum talk, articles etc will have an influence but this is judging on what I have seen. As I have said before if you are happy than that is what counts, but gen 1 manual with just a DMS remap cannot beat a 7TS.

Adam B said: hondansx said: Ultimately, if you have a car with PTV and Sports Chrono it's going to be a much better drive than a Gen 1. why? 20bhp more and PTV? Most 997.1 turbos are specced with sports chrono for overboost function Don't think normal drivers / road driving would reveal a huge difference Have you driven both cars? They feel completely different to drive; i felt it after about 50 yards.

hondansx said: Have you driven both cars? They feel completely different to drive; i felt it after about 50 yards. own a gen 1 turbo manual drove a PDK gen 2 - felt different but all down to PDK as far as I could tell

Maybe have another go when you next have a chance then... The Gen 2 car has updated PASM (therefore Sports Chrono is not the same), different spring rates, ARB and PTM settings. There is also the the potential of PTV and active engine mounts. When switching to the Gen 2, i could clearly see that this was a car that Porsche had built to reclaim some lost pride since the arrival of the Nissan GTR. The Gen 2 Turbo S is much more alert, aggressive and...well... like a sports car. And for me, it's a much better car for it. The PDK choice is a whole other argument, but it puts the car on to a different level of performance compared to the manuals and just adds to the all-round daily ability of the Turbo. If i wanted more interaction, i'd just get a GT3, which has an engine with the characteristics that suits a manual gearchange. That's my two penneth - my advice is to drive both and see what you think!

I will do if I get the chance I was impressed with PDK and undoubtably improves real world performance vs my ability in a manual, however 2nd gen was above the budget I was willing to spend on a deprciating asset, and I hate tips so manual it was. Both gens are great cars and money no object I would love a PDK turbo S, but it is an object so I am very happy with my low miles, good spec 997.1 turbo with Mezger and manual + sports shifter (which I suspect/hope may be the enthusiasts first choice in a few years)

hondansx said: Maybe have another go when you next have a chance then... The Gen 2 car has updated PASM (therefore Sports Chrono is not the same), different spring rates, ARB and PTM settings. There is also the the potential of PTV and active engine mounts. When switching to the Gen 2, i could clearly see that this was a car that Porsche had built to reclaim some lost pride since the arrival of the Nissan GTR. The Gen 2 Turbo S is much more alert, aggressive and...well... like a sports car. And for me, it's a much better car for it. The PDK choice is a whole other argument, but it puts the car on to a different level of performance compared to the manuals and just adds to the all-round daily ability of the Turbo. If i wanted more interaction, i'd just get a GT3, which has an engine with the characteristics that suits a manual gearchange. That's my two penneth - my advice is to drive both and see what you think! Also 35lbs lighter, feels much tighter especially at high speed and track.

OP, if you have any more questions after reading this little lot then by all means fire away: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=28&... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Adam B said: I will do if I get the chance I was impressed with PDK and undoubtably improves real world performance vs my ability in a manual, however 2nd gen was above the budget I was willing to spend on a deprciating asset, and I hate tips so manual it was. Both gens are great cars and money no object I would love a PDK turbo S, but it is an object so I am very happy with my low miles, good spec 997.1 turbo with Mezger and manual + sports shifter (which I suspect/hope may be the enthusiasts first choice in a few years) For sure a manual Gen 1 Turbo, especially a later one with the updated PCM, represents really good value. As such they'll always be in demand. I personally think the Mezger element is inconsequential (the Gen 2 hasn't blown up yet!), but i'm sure that connection will definitely help values for the Gen 1.

It may do however you'll need to get the mezger in to 750-800bhp territory for it to be really worthwhile. A simple remap and exhaust tweak on a gen2 turbo and it will do 0-200kmh in around 9.1 seconds which is about half a second quicker than a gt2 RS. Then gen2 might not have the strongest engine but all the other components around it are great out of the box. I find the gen 2 pdk acceleration faintly terrifying without any tweaks at all. Edited by Carl_Docklands on Monday 28th July 15:56

Has the OP done a runner? Well if you haven't, have a read of this... http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2011-aston...

Turbo S is incredible precisely because of the PDK. The PDK defines the whole experience. If you want a manual car with more interaction then get a GT3 but if you want a turbo, then IMO the turbo S PDK is not only the best Turbo ever (except 991) but also the most convincing 997 in the whole range.

Callughan said: My bet was first I do have experience hence why I was unimpressed, mainly with a 997 turbo cab with dms and miltek and it did not feel that much faster than stock and had to really push againt 997.2s pdk we were with until higher speeds. Also other DMS cars at the meets I used to arrange and on track days didn't seem to carry the power they quote. Of course negative forum talk, articles etc will have an influence but this is judging on what I have seen. As I have said before if you are happy than that is what counts, but gen 1 manual with just a DMS remap cannot beat a 7TS. My comment was to have it modified to be faster than an S, I didn't say just get a remap. You are probably right that just a remap wouldn't do it.

Isysman said: Callughan said: My bet was first I do have experience hence why I was unimpressed, mainly with a 997 turbo cab with dms and miltek and it did not feel that much faster than stock and had to really push againt 997.2s pdk we were with until higher speeds. Also other DMS cars at the meets I used to arrange and on track days didn't seem to carry the power they quote. Of course negative forum talk, articles etc will have an influence but this is judging on what I have seen. As I have said before if you are happy than that is what counts, but gen 1 manual with just a DMS remap cannot beat a 7TS. My comment was to have it modified to be faster than an S, I didn't say just get a remap. You are probably right that just a remap wouldn't do it. Which is the beauty of the mezger engine

Adam B said: Anyhow back to the poor old OP and his original question which had nothing to do with 997.1 or monster conversions!! Well not exactly, the topic did go a bit sideways but his question was about Turbo or Turbo S, I think gen.1 is a viable choice and is therefore within the boundaries of said topic.

Get2Jaime said: Been pondering the difference, specifically with the 997.2 model. Ok then Edited by Adam B on Monday 28th July 22:57

I think pdk, ptv, etc makes for a very capable and exciting drive. I guess the OP could test drive both models to decide if the S or high spec non S with all the kit was worth premium over the cooking standard spec turbo. The gen 2 turbo vs modded gen 1 turbo scenario is very interesting and one I obsessed over greatly before going gen 2. A decent late gen 1 997 turbo will cost you £50k (?) to buy and then to make a proper road weapon min £10-15k inc. VAT would be required to install **reputable and proven** 540 hp remap / sports exhaust / cats, uprated intercoolers (eg GT2 RS units), air filter, uprated clutch, Bilstein or similar suspension, upgraded brakes (for non pccb cars), etc. This budget excludes any repairs and overhaul work required during the mod work due to age and / or wear e.g O2 sensors, hoses, seals, turbo work, etc. This would create a very, very fast road car that would handle wondrously .... how would compare to the say gen 2 turbo S cross country I guess comes down to drivers, etc. At v-max style event the two cars should achieve similar speeds over same distance? The moot point here for me was that you are spending pretty much the same £ in creating modded gen 1 as buying nice gen 2. Further if you want to soundly trounce a gen 2 you would be upgrading turbos on gen 1 plus other work to achieve a **real** 600 hp, so adding another say min £5k to modding budget. I decided to go gen 2 due to wanting turn key OPC warrantied ownership experience, and not be worried should any mechanical failure occur, etc. Creating a modded turbo monster is great and very exciting, the rush when on the gas is unparalleled and makes the factory offering seem almost pedestrian. From experience of owning modded 993 turbo in the past, the monster turbo route is worthwhile sojourning if you are looking to keep for long time, accept fact it will cost more to run ref repairs / periodic overhaul, understand you will have limited or no warranty cover, and will be difficult (price dependent) to sell further down the line. Where has the OP gone ?

Adam B said: Ok then Edited by Adam B on Monday 28th July 22:57 Right and I said that the gen.1 was a possible option. I'm sorry I didn't realise you were the thread adjudicator? Maybe you should write down a list of points that we are allowed to make so you don't get upset?

I am not upset thanks, I even winked to prove it. I was feeling sorry for the OP who asked a specific question about .2 turbo vs .2 turbo S. Anyway whatever - shame the OP hasn't actually come back on the advice, whether relevant or not

MOD500 said: I think pdk, ptv, etc makes for a very capable and exciting drive. I guess the OP could test drive both models to decide if the S or high spec non S with all the kit was worth premium over the cooking standard spec turbo. The gen 2 turbo vs modded gen 1 turbo scenario is very interesting and one I obsessed over greatly before going gen 2. A decent late gen 1 997 turbo will cost you £50k (?) to buy and then to make a proper road weapon min £10-15k inc. VAT would be required to install **reputable and proven** 540 hp remap / sports exhaust / cats, uprated intercoolers (eg GT2 RS units), air filter, uprated clutch, Bilstein or similar suspension, upgraded brakes (for non pccb cars), etc. This budget excludes any repairs and overhaul work required during the mod work due to age and / or wear e.g O2 sensors, hoses, seals, turbo work, etc. This would create a very, very fast road car that would handle wondrously .... how would compare to the say gen 2 turbo S cross country I guess comes down to drivers, etc. At v-max style event the two cars should achieve similar speeds over same distance? The moot point here for me was that you are spending pretty much the same £ in creating modded gen 1 as buying nice gen 2. Further if you want to soundly trounce a gen 2 you would be upgrading turbos on gen 1 plus other work to achieve a **real** 600 hp, so adding another say min £5k to mondding budget. I decided to go gen 2 due to wanting turn key OPC warrantied ownership experience, and not be worried should any mechanical failure occur, etc. Creating a modded turbo monster is great and very exciting, the rush when on the gas is unparalleled and makes the factory offering seem almost pedestrian. From experience of owning modded 993 turbo in the past, the monster turbo route is worthwhile sojourning if you are looking to keep for long time, accept fact it will cost more to run ref repairs / periodic overhaul, understand you will have limited or no warranty cover, and will be difficult (price dependent) to sell further down the line. Where has the OP gone ? Spot on

MOD500 said: I think pdk, ptv, etc makes for a very capable and exciting drive. I guess the OP could test drive both models to decide if the S or high spec non S with all the kit was worth premium over the cooking standard spec turbo. The gen 2 turbo vs modded gen 1 turbo scenario is very interesting and one I obsessed over greatly before going gen 2. A decent late gen 1 997 turbo will cost you £50k (?) to buy and then to make a proper road weapon min £10-15k inc. VAT would be required to install **reputable and proven** 540 hp remap / sports exhaust / cats, uprated intercoolers (eg GT2 RS units), air filter, uprated clutch, Bilstein or similar suspension, upgraded brakes (for non pccb cars), etc. This budget excludes any repairs and overhaul work required during the mod work due to age and / or wear e.g O2 sensors, hoses, seals, turbo work, etc. This would create a very, very fast road car that would handle wondrously .... how would compare to the say gen 2 turbo S cross country I guess comes down to drivers, etc. At v-max style event the two cars should achieve similar speeds over same distance? The moot point here for me was that you are spending pretty much the same £ in creating modded gen 1 as buying nice gen 2. Further if you want to soundly trounce a gen 2 you would be upgrading turbos on gen 1 plus other work to achieve a **real** 600 hp, so adding another say min £5k to modding budget. I decided to go gen 2 due to wanting turn key OPC warrantied ownership experience, and not be worried should any mechanical failure occur, etc. Creating a modded turbo monster is great and very exciting, the rush when on the gas is unparalleled and makes the factory offering seem almost pedestrian. From experience of owning modded 993 turbo in the past, the monster turbo route is worthwhile sojourning if you are looking to keep for long time, accept fact it will cost more to run ref repairs / periodic overhaul, understand you will have limited or no warranty cover, and will be difficult (price dependent) to sell further down the line. Where has the OP gone ? Very well thought out.

Adam B said: I am not upset thanks, I even winked to prove it. I was feeling sorry for the OP who asked a specific question about .2 turbo vs .2 turbo S. Anyway whatever - shame the OP hasn't actually come back on the advice, whether relevant or not Apologies for the delay in replying, been snowed....I thought the topic had been buried, didnt realise it would be so popular. Thanks for the replies, you can always count on PH for some great insight. Further question, is it possible to source standard Turbo models with some of the S features, presumably they were fitted as options? e.g. PTV Personally, I'm thinking that a 997.2 standard Turbo with some options is the best value, the current Turbo S market is edging close to making a 991 seem like good value!

I think you would struggle to find a turbo that hasn't specced some of the S options, especially earlier examples that pre-date the launch of the S, but probably not all as that would have taken it close to the S price Edited by Adam B on Thursday 31st July 18:26

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... As an example this one has PTV and dynamic engine mounts

Adam B said: http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... As an example this one has PTV and dynamic engine mounts Cheapest in OPC network. Seat backs looks lovely if body colour centre console added they would match nicely. No idea why they can't be arsed to clean the tips;)