Need new egine @ 26k - any advice?

I discovered a fluid intermix (coolant in oil and oil in coolant) on my 1999 996 @ 26k. Dealer tore down engine and just informed me I need a new one. Any advice on replacement - new, used, rebuilt? 3.4 vs 3.6? costs? Any help would be appreciated. I have attatched some pictures of the carnage!

Yikes! I think the 02+ engines have a different wiring harness. If cost is not an option at this point (because a warranty is picking up the bill), get a GT3 crate motor. Thats what I would do.

get a reman installed by the dealer 2 year warrenty

quick question. Was there any warning signs before your engine failed? Any symptoms of "coolant in oil and oil in coolant"?

i second screamoleons..... how did you discovered that you needed to check the engine out???

an my .02 cents worth, i would go with the 3.6L unless you can fit in the gt3 one.....

Was the area determined where the intermix was happening? There is no fix? Any prices on new engines?

There was no warning signs and no symptoms. The car runs fine. The only way I discovered it was the coolant light came on. When I checked the coolant resevoir it was all gummy like oatmeal, I then checked the oil fill and could see some coolant in the neck of the filler. The dealer has had the car for almost two weeks and still can not determine the area of contamination, therefore they are suggesting the new engine.

i would guess oil cooler if the car ran ok . For thosesaying gt3 crate engine keep in mind that the engine is about 3-4 times what a 996 engine is and you will need a dme and a harness and your trans wont bolt to the engine and you will need a starter and exhuast and and and and and and and

The harness is over $7,000.

Oil cooler was the first thing they checked, but was O.K.

Sorry, just noticed the typo in my original post. Just to be clear, my egine is running better than ever - it's a new engine that i need.

My 99 blew a wall chunk at 43k and I got a factory 2001 replacement engine for 13.5k dealer installed with warranty. It's reconditioned, you can't get a new one anymore. If they will take your core then it's about 2.5k less. All the other options are more expensive requiring new DMEs harnesses etc. It sucks but you're not alone... You could get a used one for 3k - 7k but without the warranty it's not worth it.

Wonder if the dealer bothered to check the oil/water heat exchanger?

bnewport..... why not a 3.6L?

Firstly I agree. Why can't the dealer find the problem. There is a entire network of Porsche engineers spanning the world, plus a department at Ludwigsberg set up to help the dealers in these situations. All they have to do is ask. This problem is not exactly unique. It has happened before. Surely they have access to the Porsche mechanics forum. Maybe it doesn't exist anymore. They have the engine in bits on the table. Once they find the broken parts they get them in and then rebuild the engine. Two weeks and they still cannot work it out is a scandal. I have noticed on this forum from 996 owners in the USA that nobody seems to actually want to fix these engines, why? The thing is in bits so fix it unless the owner says that they want a new engine and are prepared to pay for it. For all we know the problem is outside of the engine and the owner is getting a really raw deal here. Is this a real Porsche dealership working on this 996 engine? Ciao, Adrian.

This is at a "Porsche dealership". The service manager and mechanic have been in contact with "Porsche" for technical advice and troubleshooting. I have been swapping emails with another rennlister who is in the same exact situation - low miles with intermix problem, they can't diagnose it and are suggesting a new engine. The dealership is saying they can rebuild the engine for $6-$7k, but could still have the same problem because they don't know where issue is occuring (obviously not a good idea).

the problem is if the intermix is inside the engine, in a coolant passage or oil galley, you just dont know and you really cant ell, I have had 996 engines apart and traced the galleys and pasages with compressed air hey are pretty intricate and theres no good way to check them for leaking between passages. the other thing is fixing the engines is rather expensive and isnt worth it. the parts for a rebuild are 4500-5000 on average + labor time to rebuild it. id say 7500-8000 for a rebuild, and then what if something else fails 6 months later unrelated to the previous repair then your in the same boat. its better for the customer and the dealer to replace the assembly and not have to worry. That said I have rebuilt a few for customer who were out of warrenty who had minor failures, but in an intermix or a metal scattering event recomend replacement

Mechanics are a dying breed. We have a new generation of parts replacers out there that are not given the opportunity to learn how to diagnose a particular problem and find a solution to repair it. I deal with this everyday.

When did dealers start tearing down motors to try and find the problem? I had this problem almost exactly one year ago and I could not find a dealer anywhere (and in fact had a hard time finding an independent) who would tear down the motor and actually tell me what went wrong. Sorry for your trouble -that sucks I know. Best of luck

Is it not true that the replacement engines are "rebuilt" not new ones? Therefore somebody is fixing them. I wonder if this is a PCNA policy rather than a PAG policy. I will ask and try and get a decent answer. Ciao, Adrian.

usualy replacment engines are rebuilt. they are bebuilt at the factory where they can be xrayed or sonic checked or whatever it is they do there they have all their parts and they have the tools lined up on their rebuiling bench and thats all they do all day is rebuild m96 engines , at the dealers its such an ordeal to do a rebuild, to order all the little seals and bolts and nuts and stuff that you need and to find all the tools that get uses once ervery few years, then you have people who have never done one or done one or 2 a few years ago its more effective to dend it out to the experinced guys rebuild the whole thing and replace the unit

Sadly it seems that this is Porsche Germany policy. I have been checking with my own contacts on this situation and they tell that these engines (M96) are too hard to fix at the dealer or at workshop level. They do have a department at the factory purely devoted to rebuilding these engines and it is quite profitable to engage in this policy. Porsche have over 300,000 of these M96 type engines out and about (their figure not mine) and at 14K a time, can make them a lot of money. To say I am disgusted is an understatement, but unless engine rebuild shops anywhere are prepared to invest in the necessary equipment to track down the problems then it is going to be exchange motors every time with a 14K price tag. Ciao, Adrian. PS: I am going to check around and try to find any independents who have the necessary equipment to repair these engines. It might be helpful for owners who are out of warranty to know who they are if they exist.

I think 14k is a lil high I htink the last one I did was about 12k out the door. now keep in mind that for the 12k you get a new motor, with a new alternator new starter new engine harness new t body new sensors ect ect ect ect its a complete crate motor minus the ac compressor

14K is high, and I think the policy is crazy. However, brad has a good point, essentially you are getting a new Porsche motor, with all the additions for ~12K installed... plus 2Y warranty. Thats not too bad of a deal!

My 2 cents worth is that an updated and rebuilt engine from Porsche costs about $6000, and another $3-4K for installation. don't pay more than $10K for a replacement engine, and don't let you local shop rebuild it for you, get a Porsche rebuild. It even comes with a warranty.

Like myself, you are one of the many hundreds of unlucky early 996 owners. All water cooled engines (Boxster and 996) from 1997 through 2001 are potentially canidates for coolant/oil intermix. This is partly caused by bad engine block castings, and partly internal galvanic corrosion, where some of the metal will be sacrificed. It has nothing to do with milage, service or maintenance, and there is nothing to do to prevent it or detect it before it has actually happened. The only thing to do is a complete engine change out, since the engine block cooling passages are corroded. A 996 3.4 liter engine cost $8,200 from PCNA, if you return your complete old engine. If you don't have the old engine as a complete unit, the price is $4,000 more. The whole cooling system including radiators, heater and hoses must be completely cleaned or changed, that will add a couple of thousand $$$. Pro-Technik in Houston [phone removed]) is doing my engine swap right now. A 996 3.6 liter engine is much more expencive, and will also need a complete new ECU, and has also a different wiring harness. For the extra 25Hp, it's not worth it. A complete 996 GT3 engine from PCNA is arount $90,000, nearly the cost of the complete car, so that is absolutely absurd.

6k is dreaming try 8-9k for a 996 engine 2-3k installataion

Many car companies are going to component replacement rather than repair in this day and age. I had my engine replaced at 5k miles, and they really never cared what the problem was. They found metal in the oil filter, and PCNA immediately replaced the engine. It doesn't matter to them any more from a repair persepctive what the problem is could be a .50 ring, or faulty cylinder, but either way their remedy is pull a new one off the shelf. I was also told by PCNA (and this may be BS) that Porsche does not recognize new or reman engine. They are simply replacement engines and they claim them to be new. I saw mine pulled out of the box, and it appears brand new complete assembly. BMW is now doing the same thing. They might work on a few things on the engine, but they are pretty much in the engine replacement mode as well at this point. I was told that tranny's and suspensions will be heading this way as well before long ultimately getting to the point where you basically own the body of the car, and lease the carriage and workings. you birng in for service and hey will unbolt the boady and put it on a new carriage. Who knows, but I found it interesting and after talking with many people engine replacement is not that big a deal.

That maybe how much you charge Brad, but I called a number of people I know in the USA and got widely varying quotes. Your figures are the bottom end and most competitive. One place out on your West coast quoted 16K up front and a full 4K rebate on the engine only if the crankcase halves were usable and 2K if they weren't. You get your rebate money only after the engine was deemed as usable. this is expected to take around a month. By the way this is quite common here in Europe when dealing with exchanges and rebuilt units from Porsche. Occassionally the dealer might take the risk, but usually they charge and then refund later. I was also advised and somebody else mentioned this as well that they have to check ALL the coolant plumbing and the radiators. They need to be flushed and cleaned and in some cases if they are also found to be corroding they have to be replaced as well. Cost circa 2K. Personally I think it might be worth checking around for the best deal. Tomorrow I will do the same exercise here in Europe to see what I would be up for should the problem arise with my own 996 engine. All of this is great for my 996 book research. The engine section just got a whole lot bigger and the search for a DIY solution is underway. Ciao, Adrian.

On a slightly related note, Is it worth having a mechanic/dealer flush and replace coolant at certain intervals?

Does this mean that this problem is not an issue with the 3.6l (2002 model year)? ML

That is done here in Switzerland as part of what they call the "Big service" on all water-cooled cars. I would certainly recommend it at regular intervals. We have it done every 2-years regardless. The 996 just got done actually. I did not think to check the condition of the fluid or if anything came out, but next time I will. Ciao, Adrian.

For a 996 3.6L the cheapest quote (this past summer) I remember getting was ~$5700USD.

No worries Jason, but this is about the 3.4L Engine and we have somebody who works for a Porsche dealer providing his price in this thread and he says 6,000 is dreaming and the quotes I received today are double to triple what you are claiming you were quoted for the 3.6L. My quotes also included the whole long engine package (as listed by Brad) shipping, removal and installation along with related taxes and charges which seem to be different state by state. Maybe you should provide the name of this cheap supplier so at least two people in this thread can contact them because they need engines. Ciao, Adrian.

Just had mine done a week ago, was about 13k. The warranty comapny picked it up except for the 2500 for the core charge, which Im waiting to find out about that.

Like I said before, I did this in September. Price was 13529 installed with no core refund.

May I ask what the cause of the engine failure was and did they do anything like flush the external parts of the oil system or coolant system depending on the failure of course? Ciao, Adrian.

The last 99 model year 996 engine we bought (last week) had a msrp of $8900. Has the updated intermediate shaft and other pieces. Doesn't come with the flywheel or clutch so those parts may be needed. It's the best way to go for both car owners (comes with a Porsche warranty) and shops.

Dealers in North America have a nearly 100% markup on most parts. I know of several cases where the dealer will actually tack on an additional 10-20% above MSRP. For engines it's usually not that bad but for some it is; 964 engines could be (2003) purchased for $7800 while the MSRP was closer to $15k, I know the MSRP has gone up to $21.2k but I don't know what the dealer cost is now. Sunset Imports will be the cheapest supplier in North America to order an engine from. Shipping across the continental USA should cost somewhere around $300-500USD. Its been a while since I priced shipping charges so they might have gone up? I don't think they will ship to Europe but I'm more than willing to help you with that if it ever comes to it. Below is the MSRP in US dollars for every rebuilt 996 engine sold by PAG. The part numbers are from the exchange catalog and I took the prices from the November 2006 price list (I don't have the December list yet). Code: Rebuilt Part # Exchange # MSRP Year Type Options -------------------------------------------------------------------- 996-840-051-ax 996-840-001-01 $11246.43 MY98-99 M96.01 C2 X51 996-840-001-ax 996-840-051-01 $7647.24 MY98-99 M96.01 C2 996-840-051-bx 996-840-051-02 $9703.26 MY99-01 M96.02 C4 X51 M620 996-100-996-qx 996-100-996-14 $9346.80 MY02- M96.03 X51 M660 M661 996-100-996-px 996-100-996-15 $9533.75 MY04- M96.03 X51 M660 M661 996-840-001-sx 996-840-001-09 $7647.24 MY99 M96.01 C4 996-840-001-fx 996-840-001-06 $7647.24 MY98 M96.01 C2 996-840-001-jx 996-840-001-10 $7647.22 MY99 M96.01 996-100-996-x 996-100-996-00 MY99 M96.01 996-100-996-ax 996-100-996-01 $12399.91 MY99-00 M96.02 M339 M620 M96.02/04 996-100-996-mx 996-100-996-12 $12399.91 MY01 M96.04 M660 M661 M620 M249 996-100-976-x 996-100-976-00 MY00+ M96.76 GT3 996-100-979-x 996-100-979-00 MY04+ M96.76 GT3 996-100-996-cx 996-100-996-03 $8129.56 MY00 M96.04 M660 M661 M620 (3.4L?) 996-100-996-lx 996-100-996-lx $7190.20 MY01 M96.04 M660 M661 M620 M480 996-100-996-dx 996-100-996-04 $6733.03 MY02+ M96.03 M660 M661 M480 996-100-996-ex 996-100-996-05 $6733.03 MY02 M96.03 M660 M661 M249 996-100-996-gx 996-100-996-07 $7493.65 MY02 M96.03 M660 M661 M480 996-100-996-hx 996-100-996-08 $7493.65 MY02 M96.03 M660 M661 M249 996-100-996-jx 996-100-996-09 $7568.60 MY03+ M96.03 M660 M661 M480 996-100-996-kx 996-100-996-10 $7568.60 MY03+ M96.03 M660 M661 M249

$5600 + core is what the wholesale price is for this engine from any Porsche parts counter. This is what I pay, and is what my neighbor paid (+10% markup) for an Independent to replace his 99 engine. Remember, everyone is in business to make money, and the more they can get from you the better for them.

Thanks for the kind offer Jason, but we have different engines to the American versions (we don't have Secondary air injection) and the shipping and taxes would be killers. Plus PAG is only three hours up the road so I can drive up and get one if I need it and then I pay the import duty on the way home as I cross the border. However I will pay retail price not wholesale price and this quoting of wholesale prices is providing a false overview of the "real cost" situation to the 996 owner. I am glad though that the end users are posting their costs to this thread because that is showing the real current picture. However in 2008/2009 this will change as Porsche raise their prices again it will only get worse. Yes guys when a product is 10 years old Porsche raise their prices on all of its major parts. A cheaper rebuild/DIY solution has to be found and will be because that is what real Porsche Enthusiasts do. This is why Rennlist was created and why it still exists, not that you would get that feeling reading this and other threads on this forum sometimes. Ciao, Adrian.

My engine was replaced under warranty on march 2004, my car is a 2002 C2, how do I know if my car has the upgraded/redesigned RMS and intermediate shaft?? I asked the guys at the Porsche dealer ans of course they said yes... but is there any way I can check for that?

That's a damned fine question. This information would only show up on the build sheet for the specific engine serial number. My recommendation is to get the your engine serial number and request PCNA in Atlanta for the engine build sheet. I would be interested to know what they say. Ciao, Adrian.

I would say it has neither based on the year the ims was changed in late 05 and the rms was mid 05

The problem is that these engines dont get replaced becasue they have worn piston rings or worn bearings, they fail with broken ims or broken timing chains. That scatters metal through the engine and casues lots oif damage to the cast in bearing surfaces and the cylinder walls , that cant be repaired and after you tally up all the new parts and a pair of heads and lifters and everything your still better off with the replacement. In the evet of an intermix, same thing you have coolant in the oil destroys bearing surfaces and you often cannot isolate the source of the mix, theres no practial way to find it, Even with a sonic device or an x ray im not sure you could find it. I will say most intermix is from failed oil coolers theres a tsb on that. If you had a high milage engine that used oil and was worn out it could be rebuilt (i dont know how many guys out there who Id feel comfortable doing the job im sure theres alot of old timers in dealers that could do it) but figure your going to pay 35-45 hours of labor for a rebuild at the shops labor rate figure 100 an hour thats 3-4k in labor alone, and you still need parts. Modern engines in all makes and models are replacement now rebuilds are a thing of the past

Brad, Just today I have found five European companies who are or are gearing up to provide M86 and M96 engine rebuilds at various levels from just a top end to a full rebuild or exchange engine programs with all the problems fixed hopefully forever. None of these companies will be offering their product or services into the USA though. I also hear what you say, but as a DIYer (when I can) I do not agree with you. It might be the easy way out for now, but not if, but when, the Porsche 3.4L engine rebuild program ends or simply becomes far too expensive, what do 996 owners do then? The 996 is going to be very hard to sell in the future if prospective buyers believe they could drive away and if they have an engine problem they will be facing a 14K $US engine replacement bill. A lot of people already believe this and we have no data to support or reject their beliefs. The 964 suffered from the same reputation in the 1990s. By the way Dekra in Germany are showing the 996 running at around 77% of owners reporting no problems after 7 years. Where the 996 fell down badly was in the first three years of ownership or the first 50,000km (30,000 miles). Strangely the Porsche Boxster was the reverse. Showed up well in the first three years and then went south afterwards. Ciao, Adrian.

That's very interesting. So I have a new-to-me '00 C2 with 78,000km on the clock. I just voluntarily had the RMS done, and while things were apart they did a motorvac and flushed and filled the cooling system (and a few hundred other things to make it virginal for me). Clean bill of health. I realize nobody has a crystal ball, but can I interpret your datum to mean that I can relax a bit because, since it's got some miles on it, I've probably got a good motor? Thanks. Don't mean to hijack the thread, but this one caught my eye.

future is anybody's guess. but at least for another 5 years, porsche will be happy to do rebuild 996 for the currect price. after all, they make $$

Bruce, My current data I have collected tends to suggest that you are quite safe regarding the corroded oil/coolant passages and the intermixing of oil with the coolant. This problem tended to occur on a batch of engines at low mileage. I am not sure how many people have had this problem and over which model years, but the one in this thread only had 24K miles on it. Under normal circumstances this problem would have occurred within the first three years of ownership and would have been covered by warranty. I am a long way off proving what I believe (I have requested data from Porsche, but only time will tell if I get any), but I am comfortable in saying that if you have reached around 50,000 plus miles I reckon you will get some useful life out of the engine. I cannot speak against plain old bad luck of course. I have a 99 3.4L and I am not worried at all. It has 60,000 miles on the clock and if it made it this far I reckon I am good. On the coolant and oil problem I have not found a place here in Europe that has had an engine in for this problem yet. Maybe all that were going to fail did, and were fixed under warranty? Very rare to find a low mileage MY98 or 99 normally aspirated 996 around these parts. Ciao, Adrian

top of one of the 2 middle cylinders. Crack starts out running down cylinder, maybe an inch or so down. Shortly afterwards, a parallel crack an inch or so away from the 1st one will develop. At first oil and coolant will intermix and engine may run hot, overheat. If the car is continued to be driven, a 'D' shaped section of the cylinder wall will eventually break out and fall into cylinder. At this point engine suffers catastrophic engine failure as cylinder wall piece gets pounded to pieces by piston. A UK company takes these blocks -- before this happens before piece of cylinder wall breaks loose -- and bores/sleeves block and rebuilds engine. Engine displacement increases are available but then new pistons/rings are required. Reports are not all in yet, but this repair appears to resurrect the engine. Don't know cost. Don't know if the service is available to USA customers or if a shop in the USA is doing this fix. If the engine can't be fixed this way, you are left looking at sourcing engine from dealership, or from a Porsche salvage yard. From the dealership comes with warranty -- if dealership installs new engine -- while the engine from a salvage yard might only come with a guarantee engine will run. Ideally, you'd want an engine from a salvage yard that you can hear run in car before removing engine but finding one in this condition is rare. Sincerely, Macster.

The price list I put together is the Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price (MSRP). But the engines are available to anybody living in the USA from dealers for wholesale + 15% which is where I got the original number i posted. No matter who you buy from you will still have the 2 year warranty. Your local dealer might even price match you just have to ask.

Thanks Macster, but this type of failure sounds like it would be visable. The mechanic has closely inspected all visable parts of the engine for cracks, but can not find any. Sincerely, PJ

Thank you everyone for the input. I did purchase an aftermarket warranty on the car. I understand they are sending a rep to the dealership to inspect, but have some reluctance cover the claim since there is no official diagnosis of the failure. I expect to hear in the next few day and will keep everyone updated. Thanks Again, PJ

sorry for all the typos and poor grammer above, it is getting late! PJ

"I have requested data from Porsche, but only time will tell if I get any), but I am comfortable in saying that if you have reached around 50,000 plus miles I reckon you will get some useful life out of the engine. I cannot speak against plain old bad luck of course." I would be very interested in whether you can obtain any info on the NUMBER of failures of this engine from Porsche in your country. When I bought my 996 the general concensus was that if your engine made it past 20K that you were "probably safe" since so many failed very early on due to intermix. However, mine failed at 54K due to cracked cylinder wall. There is a guy named Jeff at Auto Strasse in Costa Mesa/Newport doing "rebuilds." He is buying up old blocks and using the good parts to fix other motors. He is asking about $5500 I think, but only offers a 6 month warranty. Best of luck

Warranties will only replace an engine with the SAME engine......I tried to get a 3.6L when mine went and they quickly declined.....

I had the same problem....the way ot was explainedto me was the channels in the engine block wear down inside the block, then coolant and oil can mix. It is near impossible for the dealer to find EXACTLY where and unless they replace the block, they cannot fix it. the dealers cannot get just a block from Porsche, so the only dealer option is to replace the engine. An independent may source a used block and use your other components. But the expense of this may make an engine replacement the better alternative. The engines are not rebuilt, they are remanufactured. What that means is they have never been sold to a customer. they failed an initial engine test for whatever reason, were pulled apart, the block was x-rayed and examined to make sure it was structurally sound, they internal parts were replaced with NEW parts, then reassembled, then this engine is retested. If passed it gets put in the remanufactured pile to be used for replacements. Porsche says these engines are usually stronger then the ones they replace, and are more reliable. they have all the latest updates available.

I see lots of 996s that are sold just a few months before their warranty expires, and now I know why. You were very prudent to buy an aftermarket warranty. Best of luck with your car. The 996 is going to be very hard to sell in the future if prospective buyers believe they could drive away and if they have an engine problem they will be facing a 14K $US engine replacement bill. A lot of people already believe this and we have no data to support or reject their beliefs. The 964 suffered from the same reputation in the 1990s. They are already hard to sell according to a couple of friends that I have who work at Valley Motors and Len Stoler in MD. This is affecting their 997 sales because prospective buyers get upset when they are quoted a tradein price for their 996s which is substantially below the tradein prices listed in KBB.

Can you give the name of this european company who makes this rebuilds? My engine failed with 50000Km , it was a May 99 C2. Went to Local Porsche dealer where car was assisted and asked forr a new engine, I would pay the labour and fluids. Local Porsche dealer deny any financial help and quoted me 5500 euros plus 21 tax for a rebuid engine with two years warranty plus labour. Final bill round 9000 euros. Their normal procedure is to check the ECU to see if there was any over rev situation and check the running hours of the engine to see if it matches the speedo reading. Only then they�ll study your case. In my car there was no over rev situation and engine running hours match the speedo, even so they didn�t want to give me an engine for free. Made two letters to Porsche in Germany which they respond but told me they couldn�t do anything for my because my car was out of warranty period. So i ended up paying the bill from my pocket and sold the car just after because was told from a reliable source, that even the rebuid engines tend to blow. They have many M96 rebuild engine at the factory, and if you want one just call your Porsche dealer and he will get it in maximum two to three days if you�re in Europe, it�s like asking for a clucth or catalic converters, they have them in stock and this really speaks for itself, (actually the clucth and c.converter may last more than the engine )these engine are blowing at a daily rate thrue out the world. So anyone who has a blown 996 engine, just go to your dealer and he will drop a new engine for 8000 to 9000 euros depending on the Country, it comes with two years warranty and I believe it�s the best way to cure the problem, but sell it just after if you don�t want to have some severe headackes in the future. http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php...&page=0#102121 J.Seven

It looks like there may be a silver lining to the replacement only M96 situation. If the price list that Jason posted is correct, you can turn in a "regular" '98 3.4liter and get an X51 for $11246.00 or less (cost plus 15% it sounds like). What's the option cost? $15k or so? 340hp should help take some of the sting out.

The 3.4L X51 engines are not fitted with Secondary Air Injection. Somebody on Rennlist already found this out the hard way when he purchased his X51 kit, no SAI ports in the heads. Even if you could use these engines they cannot be exchanged for a normal engine. The program only works same type for same type. You would have to purchase it new and then it becomes very expensive. According to the Engine manual for model year 1999 the X51 engine has 320hp. Ciao, Adrian.

>>>996-840-051-ax 996-840-001-01 $11246.43 MY98-99 M96.01 C2 X51<<< From the Porsche price list Jason posted: Rebuilt part# Exchange part# 996-840-051-ax 996-840-001-01 $11246.43 MY98-99 M96.01 C2 X51 The exchange part# appears to be for the standard 3.4l motor. Is it not?

Boy you guys love to argue don't you? The model year 98/99 X51 engines are not for sale in the USA. I have no idea how they ended up in this list with a $US price. Call your local dealer and ask him to organise an exchange for you for a model year 99 X51 engine and see what he says. Check the 996 Parts catalogue page 001 illustration 101-00 update 187. Standard replacement motors are part number 996.100.996.02 and 03 for the USA for model year 1999. There was no model year 1998 996 sold in the USA. I can also assure you that you cannot exchange a standard ROW M96.01 for a M96.01/S either. Already been asked some time ago on behalf of somebody else with similar plans. Ciao, Adrian.

3.4 X51 was not avaliable in US, porshce talked to some dealer about the X51 pkg for 3.4, the reaction wasn't good. basiclly dealers think it's price is crazy. so US market never got 3.4 X51.

the engine is in the very early stages of manifesting this problem. Engines, cylinders that ingest coolant usually are easy to spot, because the coolant/water tends to remove combustion chamber/piston crown deposits. Combustion chamber, including valve faces, piston top, and even spark plug can look quite clean. Might not spot right away where/how the coolant's getting into the cylinder, but at least one can tell which cylinder(s) are affected. Sincerely, Macster.

Normally you can order any ROW part from any North American based dealership so PCNA has pricing data for everything. I posted everything and gave the engine and option type breakdown so that people would know (one of several apparently) reasons why the engine prices are all over the map. Are they requiring a VIN number or photo or proof of anything when placing the order? What is the core charge? $2k? $4k? Do you know of any repercussions other than losing your core deposit? When I went to place my order (never went through with it) for a rebuilt 964 engine all that was required was payment.

that's the PCNA we know, ALL you need is $$

I would imagine adding the secondary air injection to the X51 kit seeing as they made it without it would have raised the cost substantially. This is like the guy in the USA who ordered an engine for his 993. He was sent the last new one in the store in Germany. The trouble was that it was a ROW version. That was a costly mistake for both parties and why it doesn't happen anymore. The ROW 993 engines did not have Secondary air injection and had a different electrical harness. Ciao, Adrian.

This is true unless it is tagged in the store "NOT FOR US VEHICLES". You may still be able to order, but somebody somewhere along the line will pick it up and it won't be delivered. The X51 exchange engine is so marked. It's not like the PCNA are going to have any of these X51 engines in store in the USA are they? The order has to go to Germany and I think they might twig that somebody from a country where this engine was not exported to and does not meet the legal requirements for emissions, might not be exchanging the same type of engine. The kit which is sold by TEquipment may not be marked. I know one was shipped to the USA (to an independant) and sold to a 996 owner who installed it (the kit is quite substantial as well) and now he has no Secondary Air Injection, a permanent glowing CEL and is somewhat down on power according to the last dyno tests. Full details of the 996 in question are provided for engine exchanges by the dealers to AMAG (Swiss version of PCNA) and onto the factory. They need this data for the warranty paperwork, to revise the build spec and to issue new registration approval documentation. You cannot just pop another engine in your car here in Switzerland. They also check what you should have and the dealer knows anyway. Private individuals cannot order engine exchanges. There is a post in this thread by somebody who said he tried to exchange his 3.4 for a 3.6 and they said no and that was in the USA. The repercussions of trying to cheat Porsche? No idea the dealers wouldn't do it and seeing as I cannot call up AMAG and order an engine exchange direct I don't have any answers for you. Ordering a 996 engine for exchange is quite different to a 964 engine due to the multiple types and the ROW and USA versions. The 964 only had one main type, the M64/01/02 (Tip) for the whole world. If you tried to exchange an M64/01 for an M64/04 (RS engine) I think you would agree that Porsche would say no, nicht wahr? Ciao, Adrian.

No, not arguing, just finding facts. I imagine you're right, but it does seem to be somewhat more than just a typographical error. Too many digits in a row and all that.