996 GT3 Cup Car - please someone persuade me not to - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Ok everyone, here's the thing. I got a M3 CSL a couple of years ago having missed the boat on the cheap 996 GT3s and GT2s that were floating around a couple of heaters before and not wanting to see myself priced out of another cool car before it started climbing fast. Of course CSLs have gone up a lot now, and that has now got me thinking of trying to hop back over into Porsche ownership. So far so good. Then I started looking at 996 GT3 Cup cars, and the cold sweats began. My question is, for anyone who knows anything about these things, is a race car as a track car and fun thing to look at a ludicrous and expensive idea? They look about the same money as the road car, and what a great track car it would be. Am i going mad? Will a cold shower and a box round the ears bing me back down to earth? I know about the importance of a recent rebuild of engine and gearbox, but nit much more than that. And what about long term appreciation? Is it a foolish place to keep money? I'm not in it for the money, but I'd probably feel sick if I saw the road car version rocket in value a la 964 RS. Help humbly invited!

I had a 996 Cup car. I raced it for a few years, used it a few track days and then sold it. The underpinnings are very very similar to a road GT3 if the car is standard. It is however lighter and stiffer than a road car which is good for track days. You can run it on slicks too which is great fun. The running costs should in fact be lower than a road Gt3 as less weight means less wear on the car. It was built to do this. The downside is that, once you get the hang of it, you're too fast for a track day. You can out-brake and out-corner most cars and that gets dull. Overtaking under braking or in corners is not commonly allowed on track days and even if it is can be hazardous as the folk on track with you aren't used to that sort of activity. You'll also need a trailer and a tow car. I'm surprised they are the same price as road versions. They used to be markedly less, supply and demand at work (not many buyers for an older, but not classic, race car).

Thanks for that helpful and detailed reply. It looks like sensible use doesn't necessarily lead to big bills. Still going in with eyes open obviously. And do you have any views on the market for these things long term? Can you view them even remotely as a long term investment in the way you might a low edition track oriented road car like a GT3 or an RS? Am I delusional to even think about this rather than a 996 GT3 road car? The idea of having the real thing is just too enticing right now...

Out of interest I had a flick through race cars direct to see the prices and availability. There seem very few and prices were higher than I imagined. In 2007 I bought an early, 1999 car that had been used in the F1 support races - that was £21k! It was very well used and rather battered. At that time it was the slowest of the 996 Cup cars, being the earliest, and you couldn't give them away. I raced it for a few years, smartened it up a bit and sold it in 2012/3 for £28k as I wasn't using it and it was too quick for track days. I'd be amazed if the race cars held their price in the same way as the road cars, but perhaps in the long term that is what happens as they are rarer and some have racing provenance. The road car appeals to a much wider audience as it is day to day usable versus a race car that needs trailering to a track and is no use to you any other time. Race cars are often governed in pricing terms by what use they can be out to, ie what series you can run them in. When I bought mine they were becoming old hat for the clubman racer who wanted a new 996 or the incoming 997 Cup. A slightly out of date race car is not a much loved beast. Once they become "classic" they become more popular again and prices rise. In my mind I had thought it was another 20 years until 996 Cup cars became desirable, but maybe I'm wrong.

Haha yes Jimmy not long ago you could get a 993 Cup for about 40-50 K now they seem to be 250-300 k .............. goes down for years and then ....... Nice to have H patern box ...... and basic to run ......tracks are now full of 600 bhp plus road cars on new rubber which has changed things .. Get one with a nice history if possible ....

A chap on here bought one for trackdays a while ago I'm sure, can't remember who it was though, hopefully he'll see this & respond.

LordHaveMurci said: A chap on here bought one for trackdays a while ago I'm sure, can't remember who it was though, hopefully he'll see this & respond. Steve Rance is probably your man for advise on this.

Prices for these do seem to have gone up quite drastically, I was also keeping my eye on Ferrari challenge cars / road legal which are now crazy prices...be interesting to see if you buy one and how much it costs to run etc, I'd love a blast round a track in one, so let me have a drive if you do!!!!

LordHaveMurci said: A chap on here bought one for trackdays a while ago I'm sure, can't remember who it was though, hopefully he'll see this & respond. Possibly thinking of gordonc - who bought a 997 Cup for track days. I don't think the comments above about running costs being similar to a road-going GT3 are accurate, these are expensive beasts to run. The gearbox and engine are lifed by hours (as in most race cars) and at 40/20 hrs respectively you should expect to invest heavily. With an engine build costing around £20k and a gearbox around £10k the number of hours on the car can substantially alter the value. That said, they are stupendously competent track cars and pretty much nothing that doesn't have full-on downforce will keep up.

Order66 said: Possibly thinking of gordonc - who bought a 997 Cup for track days. I don't think the comments above about running costs being similar to a road-going GT3 are accurate, these are expensive beasts to run. The gearbox and engine are lifed by hours (as in most race cars) and at 40/20 hrs respectively you should expect to invest heavily. With an engine build costing around £20k and a gearbox around £10k the number of hours on the car can substantially alter the value. That said, they are stupendously competent track cars and pretty much nothing that doesn't have full-on downforce will keep up. Whilst you're right about being lifed in hours, that's for those driving them flat out in the Carrera Cup, top flight GT3 races and so on. Track day use tends to be much easier than racing use. Racing needs every available rev, inevitably shifts are rushed and sometimes ragged, the limiter gets hit often and so on. There are also serious differences between a 996 and 997 Cup car... - 996 is much much closer to the road car. It has an almost identical engine and 'box. That 'box is standard H pattern manual. It's lighter than a road 996 so all things being equal the brakes and suspension have less to do. Why would you expect it to be pricier for track day usage than the road going equivalent? How often to track day goers have their GT3 engine rebuilt? If and when you rebuild a GT3 engine it is a serious job because you tend to replace many of the more fragile parts as part of preventative maintenance, but that's the same for any GT3. - 997 Cup was a more specialised beast. The 'box in particular was a racing sequential that tended to be fragile and need regular rebuilds. The engines too needed more careful warming up and could go into limp home if you weren't nice to it. They were a step-up in running costs when used for racing. I have heard that since they became more accessible some have been used on the track day scene - Steve Rance did this and posted about it last year. When used more lightly at a track day the feedback suggests they can go much longer between rebuilds; that was Steve's view and early experience. Hunter's point below is a good one. These race cars are ultimately quick, but it's in the corners and braking. The modern mega horsepower cars are fast on the straight which could make for a frustrating track day experience. Your 996/7 will be faster, but if you can't overtake under braking or in corners and are forever held up in those places you will be rather miffed as the mobile chicane in front of you gives it the gas on the straight and pulls away from you; repeat again at next twisty section! In my several years of running, racing and track daying a 996 Cup car I replaced types regularly, brake pads/discs infrequently, an alternator, a few gearbox bits (not the whole thing, just the worn bits) and nothing much else. It never let me down in race or track day form. It's not expensive to run so far as these things go, but running anything regularly on track is a pricey game.

You have to be very selective on track days with any very capable slick-shod race car. It can be the most frustrating thing ever as you can never get a clear lap. I once did a Donington track day in my SR3RS and I never did one again! Bert

Best to run these on a test day instead of a public track day. That way you don't have to worry about insecure fat middle aged men in red Italian cars who mince about in the corner and then hoof it down the straight.

go have a go in one see if you can cope with all the rattles and mega noise in the cabin. You will either love it or tire of it in 2 laps. Also the added issue of "cannot drive it to the circuit" It's that simple a choice imo. Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 17th April 14:33

As I recently bought a 2004 Cup, let me use this as my first post. After having been doing trackdays and some racing for 12 years, I was looking for a very pure track car with a closed cockpit and one that would not break the bank. I have been tracking a 991RS for the past two years, and whilst this is an incredible car, it has become too costly to repair these in case of accidents which limits the fun. I considered various options from a stripped E46 M3 to 997 Cup, but the 996 Cup ticked the right boxes being reasonably simple to run, fast but not too fast, solid and a bit collectible. Two main points that stood out were the manual box, which is more durable than the 997 sequential and the fact that it has ABS. If you race these cars and maintain to Porsche standards they are way more expense than a regular GT3. But if a few tenths per lap don't matter, you can easily extend the engine life beyond 100h and run used slicks at less than 50% of the cost. Accident damage would not have to be repaired to the same standard as a road car and doesn't impact the resale value as much. Parts are also reasonably cheap. I did my first day at Zandvoort last week and love the car. I have it transported and supported on track which costs me about £500 (as the car is stored locally to Zandvoort). You do need someone who can change wheels and look after the car, as it requires a bit more work on track than a road car due to the high forces and the way it's constructed. I was immediately 2s faster in the Cup than in my 991RS on very used slicks and reckon the ultimate difference on a shortish track like Zandvoort will be 4-5s, to give an indication of performance. The car is also very physical, so you need to be fairly fit to run it at a decent speed for longer stints. But the big surprise is that it feels very much like a normal GT3, except for the extreme noise. A spare silent exhaust is recommended. Since these are now eligible for several young timer race series, they are becoming more popular. This means prices have gone up a bit, though they are still reasonable (expect about 50-60k for a decent car), but there is also a reasonable market for (non OEM) parts and tyres. Edited by ralfw on Monday 17th April 14:40

Harris_I said: Best to run these on a test day instead of a public track day... For which of course you'll need a race license - but that's easy to get - you'll only need a Nat B.

88racing said: For which of course you'll need a race license - but that's easy to get - you'll only need a Nat B. Test days come with their own issues in my experience. These are days for being fully "on it", testing race pace and set ups, used by many for pre race practice for the coming weekend etc. They aren't great places for the typical track day goer - you'll have frustrated racing drivers all over you and passing willy-nilly.

ralfw said: let me use this as my first post. That's quite some lurking!

LordHaveMurci said: ralfw said: let me use this as my first post. That's quite some lurking! quite impressive indeed

jimmyslr said: Test days come with their own issues in my experience. These are days for being fully "on it", testing race pace and set ups, used by many for pre race practice for the coming weekend etc. They aren't great places for the typical track day goer - you'll have frustrated racing drivers all over you and passing willy-nilly. Race drivers tend to use track days to do that's also, it's very annoying, but no less annoying than a cup car in Slicks up your arse, imo slicks should be banned on track days, and cars should be road legal. You see too much s t on track days. If you want to run slicks like some one said goto test days.

Porsche911R said: jimmyslr said: Test days come with their own issues in my experience. These are days for being fully "on it", testing race pace and set ups, used by many for pre race practice for the coming weekend etc. They aren't great places for the typical track day goer - you'll have frustrated racing drivers all over you and passing willy-nilly. Race drivers tend to use track days to do that's also If that's what you think, see if you can get a passenger lap on a test day..... Running a car on slicks, does not necessarily make a car fast..... A test day is very different to a track day with a few slick shod cars hooning around. The pace is far higher, and within reason, anything goes.

Hi guys I race in Careera cup and have owned 20/30 plus cup cars since 2006 ..and the one I have kept is my 2005 996 cup ..only 1 of 3 imported into uk in 2005....good later 2004/05 cups with good history are well sort after and in Germany they are rising in value ..just look at the prices of 964 /993 cups ..the 996 2005 was last of the Manual cup made as the 997 was under build in 2005 for supercup ..in my advice be very careful what you buy .. If like to have a chat feel free to pm me ..if on Instagram can have a look at my cups on Karlleonard1976

2005 996 cup 1 of 3 imported Vip porsche uk car with famous drivers driving it in 2005 Only ever raced 7 times ever in 2005 Very low kms Full parr history and rebuilt

NIce Car Karl , agree fully with your sentiment , in an era where cars are all much faster and way easier ( for anyone ) to drive, it is a nice last of the truly analogue Porsche race cars to own and drive on track ...... 993 Cups are now 100's k so what will be next ... I have a 2001 RS again the last manual GT Porsche , again not as fast and more complicated to get the speed ( Manual , no ABS , no electronic aids etc etc) but fun to drive ...

MDL111 said: LordHaveMurci said: ralfw said: let me use this as my first post. That's quite some lurking! quite imprhttps://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=48&t=1666473&i=0essive indeed Almost a shame there isn't a prize! Useful first post too Ralf.

hunter 66 said: NIce Car Karl , agree fully with your sentiment , in an era where cars are all much faster and way easier ( for anyone ) to drive, it is a nice last of the truly analogue Porsche race cars to own and drive on track ...... 993 Cups are now 100's k so what will be next ... I have a 2001 RS again the last manual GT Porsche , again not as fast and more complicated to get the speed ( Manual , no ABS , no electronic aids etc etc) but fun to drive ... Nice I just bought and sold a 996 RS race car car..never raced ..cool cars ..! Was fitted with sequential but had original H box with it Picture on my Instagram of car

Hi Karl , just looked at your instagram , and yes that is my 996RS at Donnington , sadly had major front tyre issue ( old tyres and new did not arrive on time ) so massive vibration which did not improved ...... so gave up running as impossible . Anyway checked that an oil leak had been fixed ( RMS ) ....... But was great to pick up the Felbermyer 997 RSR's from Proton ....... with 6 Le Mans races between them , so ran about 6 laps in one of them .......... New masters race series for the cars , so maybe can race again

Digga said: Almost a shame there isn't a prize! Useful first post too Ralf. :-) Hadn't realised I'd created an account so long ago... hope I'm still welcome to post.

To give a clearer idea of how useable they are, in Germany many are converted for road use. It needs different doors and some other adjustments, but they remain very close to original. The only real pain would be that they idle at 2000 rpm and they're incredibly noisy. That can of course also be easily addressed with a silent exhaust.

ralfw said: :-) Hadn't realised I'd created an account so long ago... hope I'm still welcome to post. Hell yes. No time limit on PH membership.

hunter 66 said: Hi Karl , just looked at your instagram , and yes that is my 996RS at Donnington , sadly had major front tyre issue ( old tyres and new did not arrive on time ) so massive vibration which did not improved ...... so gave up running as impossible . Anyway checked that an oil leak had been fixed ( RMS ) ....... But was great to pick up the Felbermyer 997 RSR's from Proton ....... with 6 Le Mans races between them , so ran about 6 laps in one of them .......... New masters race series for the cars , so maybe can race again lovely cars... I bought a rsr 997 also awhile ago...see video...have some wheels as mentioned if you need...I love your rsr's great cars and great history to them a rare find indeed... hope to see them at silvestone classic in july ...might get my 996 ready for a few laps

Great , maybe hook up with Global legends and Jarrah Venables ....... we are doing classic Daytona and Sebring as well this year ...... should be fun

hunter 66 said: Great , maybe hook up with Global legends and Jarrah Venables ....... we are doing classic Daytona and Sebring as well this year ...... should be fun just back from sebring was testing a 991 cup...soften off the car..its bumpy...lol

One aspect that has made running a Cup on track-days cheaper than I had expected is the use of used slicks. For racing or road cars on track-days this is not something I would have ever considered. But if you have a reliable source, it really makes sense when you don't use your Cup competitively. And as it uses the same tyres as the GT4 Club Sport, there are plenty teams with barely used to well used tyres.

kleonard said: just back from sebring was testing a 991 cup...soften off the car..its bumpy...lol Great yes seen that .......

Come a bit late to this but anyway here is my experience. I bought my 02 Cup a couple of years ago, after having a 64 RS and tracking that for 15 years or so. The Cup is quite a step on in terms of ability and I must admit was quite a shock first time out. Having never driven on slicks the first few laps were "interesting" to say the least. Once the tyres are up to temp the car is an absolute blast. Though I think it's going to take me some time to get to grips with it and drive it properly.I now have a new level of respect for the guys that raced these in Carrera Cup. Going from 64 RS to GT3 cup was probably not the best way. A road GT3 might have been a better idea. There are some points that might not be immediately obvious that are worth noting, if you plan to use it for track days. There is much reduced steering lock which makes pit lane maneuvers tricky , add in a puck clutch (on/off) and the lack of handbrake, things as simple as noise tests become a personal challenge. I self support but it really makes things 110% easier if you have the car looked after at the track and can just concentrate on driving. I trailer the car myself and it's a pain. Don't under estimate the time it takes to load the car , strap it down and fill the car with all the required paraphernalia. If you run slicks you'll probably want to trailer the car on the wets, which means carrying either an air bottle and lance or decent low level jack. A very large 700NM torque wrench , fuel cans etc etc. That is the bit I hate most about ownership. If looking to buy it's worth checking that the car comes with working air jacks, if you plan to use them. I am sure there are cheaper ways to rebuild them but it's easy to spend £1k + at Sobek to get them sorted. Likewise the cost of Bottle , regulator,lance + line, and trolley will soon add up so it's a plus if the car comes with one. It's also nice to have the MODAS software and cable . If only to be able to know what the actual hours are on the engine. A new MODAS cable is £750 from memory. Originally the cars were supplied with two sets of slicks and one set of wets, again worth making sure they come with the car. I found when buying mine that cars sold quite quickly (if they were any good) there were an awful lot of very old adverts out there. Some several years old! So don't be fooled by apparent "cheap" cups , the ad is probably a few years out of date ! Rennlist is a good source of info. European based info is thinner on the ground. Good luck.

Ok, everybody. You may be pleased to hear that in no small part down to the irresponsible encouragement I got on this thread, I did it! Karl Leonard the all knowing GT3 Cup guy connected me with a film producer and part time Porsche race car dealer called Ivo van Riet, and between them they managed to get me in a very good car. Ivo has just delivered the car over from Holland and I am still in shock. I have to say though that starting this thread, getting great advice and also being connected with someone who ended up advising me on the purchase has been the best experience I've had on pistonheads. Thank you all. Good people do exist on the internet. Now if anyone knows how I can get around a 105 db static noise test next Wednesday without changing my exhaust, don't be shy, speak up! Seriously, thanks everyone.

legalknievel said: Ok, everybody. You may be pleased to hear that in no small part down to the irresponsible encouragement I got on this thread, I did it! Wonderful news. Congratulations. Now where's the pictures?! (I'm only asking what everyone else will be thinking.)

Well done ... time to enjoy there is a PCGB track day at Donington on the 25 th July NO limit to noise .... my car is about 128 DB ..... We are bringing 996RS ( 01) and two Le Mans 997 RSR's..... should be great ..no silencers Great Karl sorted it out for you

Pictures so far are limited. Booked cadwell for next week so hopefully will have some more. It's the car that Anthony Beltoise won the Carrera Cup France with in 2005 so a pretty cool history. He was the son of Jean-Pierre Beltoise who won Monaco in the 60s and the nephew of Francois Cevert, who was Jackie Stewart's great friend and team mate. In the spirit of the car's French roots and the fact that sitting in it is about as intimidating to me as being at the controls of a spaceship, I've decided to call it Jean-Luc. This is what I have so far.

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Congrats - awesome looking car I also want one ....

legalknievel said: Oh yes! Superb. Hope I might see this on track sometime. Enjoy.

Yes well done to Karl Leonard ..... nice car ....

with regards to exhaust. I bought cargraphic's GT3 cup silencers for mine which get it through 105 static and 103. I wasn't thrilled with the standard of fit of the things though. The standard cup exhaust is 107 and the supercup 110 ! UK Carrera cups had a 103 db exhaust system i believe . Congrats on your purchase.

Funny, I bought my car from the same chap. Nice guy and very knowledgable. Can drive too. Your car seems very good. Based on what i saw it was recently revised, so you have made a wise purchase. Mine was raced for two years after last refresh, so I expect to do a full revision within a year or two which will probably cost me 30 to 40000 EUR. It is such an easy car to use, being quite close to the road cars. But do religiously plan your maintenance. I recently had a near write off when my brake pedal went to the floor in a 200-80kph brake zone. As I was right behind a friend in another 996 Cup all I could do was steer as far away from him as possible, avoiding him by 10cm as he turned into the chicane. Brake fluids had just been done, calipers revised, so only possible reason I can see is air in the hoses (which my team ruled out) or pads too worn. They reckoned they were still fine, but I will now keep them over 50%, switch from pagid RS29 to either RSL or Endless and higher quality brake fluid. Generally, things tend to break rather than slowly wear as they do in a road car, so you need to replace parts preventitively to avoid incidents. Enjoy!

Congrats - lovely purchase. I'm sure a few of us are pondering now...!

that is truly a thing of beauty! Congratulations!

Lemon yella RS said: with regards to exhaust. I bought cargraphic's GT3 cup silencers for mine which get it through 105 static and 103. I wasn't thrilled with the standard of fit of the things though. The standard cup exhaust is 107 and the supercup 110 ! UK Carrera cups had a 103 db exhaust system i believe . Congrats on your purchase. Thanks for this. I've looked on their site. The silencer is the add-on that goes between manifold and exhaust right? The UK stockist is Parr Motorsport I think. If they had one in the UK then I should easily be able to get the car on the road before this Wednesday evening's track shakedown. If not, I'd be trying to do something inventive with getting one of my race buddies in Germany to get it to his house by courier on Monday and getting the Eurowings over on Tuesday night for a late night spannering session. That all could depend on cargraphic or Parr and whether they actually stock the item I guess. The elaborate racecar escapades appear to have started earlier than I thought... Ralf, Jimmy, and frankly everyone who has given advice and encouragement, I am very grateful. For better or worse, I wouldn't have made the jump were it not for this thread! Edited to reflect my 6 am Sunday morning brain not working properly. Edited by legalknievel on Sunday 4th June 07:12

Well done legalknievel, looks a nice car being one of the last of the run and with a race history. I am now feeling a bit sad about the one I sold a few years ago, but I can't keep them all and keep moving through cars I like! On noise, I didn't ever have any issues with mine and I don't think the exhaust was tricked up, so must be readily fixable. Out of interest, I did have a 997 style freer flowing exhaust fitted after a year which helped liberate a tiny bit more power. I also ran performance friction floating discs and pads which were legendarily good and definitely performed better than the standard. I also ended up with cleve Penske suspension. My car wasn't the most powerful but it did handle and brake brilliantly. All of the above was done by Richard chamberlain of CTR racing. Richard is an excellent guy with a great reputation in these parts and a very handy driver. He could pedal my car a couple of seconds faster than me around silverstone when he was on it. These sorts of tweaks are worth thinking about as and when you need to refresh discs/pads and suspension. Good luck - I'm jealous!

In case of noise issues, I always carry a spare M&M exhaust. But strangely I have not needed it yet, despite driving at tracks like Zandvoort and Assen. A skilled mechanic (i.e. not me) can swap out the unit in 45min, so think it makes sense to carry one. Whilst the car does not appear to generate much more dB than, say a 991RS, it's extremely noisy inside. I therefore drive with an ear plug in my left ear. Without I think you'd damage your eardrums long term.

Hi Jimmy ....... yes they may be on the upturn now ......... with the 64 RSR selling for £2 mil ........maybe come to the PCGB day at Donny ....... we will have a few 997 RSR's and 996 RS on megaphones .... loud day

forgot to say, PLEASE add many many pictures of your car!

Jimmy and Ralf, so it seems like a 105 static test may even be within the bounds of possibility with the stock setup? It's looking like the cargraphic pre-silencer, which looks like the perfect piece of kit could not arrive in time to fit. But if being under the 105 limit is possible or even likely then I guess I'll go to Cadwell Park after all on Wednesday. Dank - Of course more photos on the way tomorrow!

105dB seems very high, but I always find it hard to understand how each track measures. I mostly drive at Zandvoort, which is notoriously strict with noise. On most days they have a 92dB drive-by limit and surprisingly I have not had issues. For comparison, I am also ok with my 991RS but fail when they drop the limit to 89dB during evening sessions. Whilst there never is certainty, I would definitely try. The Cup is great even when changing at 7000rpm if you have to.

ralfw said: 105dB seems very high, but I always find it hard to understand how each track measures. I mostly drive at Zandvoort, which is notoriously strict with noise. On most days they have a 92dB limit and surprisingly I have not had issues. For comparison, I am also ok with my 991RS but fail when they drop the limit to 89dB during evening sessions. Whilst there never is certainty, I would definitely try. The Cup is great even when changing at 7000rpm if you have to. We drive at Zandvoort once a year too (will be there at then end of this month for the afternoon/evening in a variety of Porsches). Zandvoort only measure driveby which is likely to be measured at about 10 metres from the point you pass it. Hence 92 db is quite forgiving. The 105 db limit mentioned above is a static test at 0.5 metres from the exhaust. You can also make the meter at Zandvoort more forgiving by short shifting just before the start/finish line.

boxsey said: We drive at Zandvoort once a year too (will be there at then end of this month for the afternoon/evening in a variety of Porsches). Zandvoort only measure driveby which is likely to be measured at about 10 metres from the point you pass it. Hence 92 db is quite forgiving. The 105 db limit mentioned above is a static test at 0.5 metres from the exhaust. You can also make the meter at Zandvoort more forgiving by short shifting just before the start/finish line. When will you be there? 27th? Am also looking for some dates.

ralfw said: When will you be there? 27th? Am also looking for some dates. Yes 27th it is. There will be 10 of us. Mostly in GT4s and Cayman Rs plus a 964 cup and some others. We will also be at Spa the day before with Lotus on Track (Nb. no slicks allowed with Lotus on track but that doesn't affect our group).

glad was of help and you got a nice car and cheers for the drink ....if need any help with car my guys are top class...! let us know how your first spin goes...? il have to take my 05 out for a blast soon...! not on here much but can get me on my facebook site at Porsche cup cars or Instagram kleonard1976 if need any parts text me lots lying around

If you ever take out passengers on track, i'd love to passenger, for a drink of course!

I have to ask, what about your other one? ralfw said: I therefore drive with an ear plug in my left ear.

OK, I'll oblige. And another:

those pics are good, but only just just a small sip, not quenching the n]thirst for GT3 Cup pics! more please!!!

Some from a Britcar 24 a few years back: https://flic.kr/p/766tEt The day I first met Calum Lockie: https://flic.kr/p/5o5GDq https://flic.kr/p/5nHMiY https://flic.kr/p/76anSo

Should never have sold it

Memories ..................

Good fair racing Pete. Great fun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPkQBQNlzVs&t=... A friend's car, owned in the family from new and never raced!

In period

Mine on track as it is now. Previous owner driving Edited by Lemon yella RS on Friday 23 June 01:10

Thought I'd add some more tales of spannering and some driving here. So I took Lemon Yella RS's advice and went for the cargraphic presilencers which weren't mega cheap but are high quality and in the end fit ok. I have to say the sweating and wriggling exhausts around was done by Erik with me feeding him beer and looking on sympathetically. The exhaust now is much more road car and clearly legal for 105db static days, maybe even 102. For any demo runs days at cool tracks with the club Global Endurance Legends which I've joined I'll put it back to the full beans crazy cup exhaust arrangement. We managed to get out for a full day to Oulton two weeks ago and it was great. Varying conditions, starting out pretty damp but just about good for slicks provided respect was shown near the limit and then it really dried out. Getting used to the car now a bit more. Full concentration and respect, and don't even start getting close to pushing it until brakes and tyres have done a couple of laps. It is still the best thing I've ever driven by a margin. Thanks to the guy who lent us a jack and also the guy who let us use his compressor at Oulton. Track day spirit at the days I've been to so far is really cool. Photos below along with a photo of it in its original championship winning livery that I will put it back to soon.

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And how it looked when I picked it up today:

As the winter hopefully nears its end (if this miserable weather ends), I’ve been getting some stuff done. I’ve joined the guys at Global Endurance Legends, a new car club for modern classic prototype and GT car enthusiasts, I’m doing my ARDS test in March, and two demo runs at the Le Mans Classic with the club in the summer. I hope not to utterly embarrass myself. I’ve had the car in paint over the winter and it’s as if today it’s back to stock Glacier White, ready to be put back to the original Carrera Cup 2004 livery. <Edited for typos> Edited by legalknievel on Tuesday 6th February 22:16

Thanks for the update and pics - am sure you are looking forward to an exciting summer. Car is looking awesome

I do love threads like this. Reminds me of why I have such an expensive (to me) toy lurking, unused in the garage - because the days when we get to play with these toys make all the waiting, fettling and big bills well worth it.

Thanks guys. Next step is to get Jean-Luc dressed in his original french livery from his 2004 Carrera Cup season, then take the silencer off and off to the Le Mans Classic. Well, next step is really to get the alignment sorted after i mounted a kerb I couldn't see at Oulton in September when filling at the petrol pump. Very racing driver....

legalknievel said: Well, next step is really to get the alignment sorted after i mounted a kerb I couldn't see at Oulton in September when filling at the petrol pump. Very racing driver.... I hate it when inanimate objects pull out in front of you without warning.

I agree, I love threads like these, what driving and cars is all about for me! More pics of the car please, superb machine!!!!

Hey so I thought I’d do a bit of an update on Jean-Luc the French 996 Cup, and post a couple of photos and a small video. In short, nothing massive has happened in terms of progressing the car, as it’s been mostly in the graphics shop getting fitted for its original livery. Handily I was able to find a model of the car from its Carrera Cup days. The plan is to get it in period correct attire in time for Le Mans Classic, where I dearly hope not to embarrass myself in front of a probably knowledgable crowd when I do a testing style demo run with the good people of Global Endurance Legends. We have done one outing, shortly after I got my ARDS licence, which was a test at Silverstone. That was basically all the nerves and feeling like a fish out of water that I felt ten years ago at my first track day. Pretty much everyone was faster. Perhaps most humbling were the Ginettas hurtling past me. Less power, I imagine, and probably also driven by 15 year olds. Well, I didn’t crash, and neither did my buddy Erik, and we both braved an animal invasion in the cockpit. I recorded brief highlights of the day in a hopefully not unentertaining video: https://youtu.be/KpLROBQ-9sQ I should add that in getting kitted out for LMC and getting harnesses up to date etc for scrutineering I have been really helped by that guy Scott Mansell at Driver 61. The guy is a legend. All those free track tuition videos. He’s also been very helpful with advice one what race gear I actually need as opposed to what is superfluous or unnecessary to spend on. For a rookie it’s pretty useful and the guy just seems pretty chill and open. Don’t really plug people as a rule, but I think his approach is really sound. Anyway, more photos: The model: Pre-test bravado shot: Erik demonstrating his half Texan half German origins with both his t-shirt and his awkward posture: So next outing will be a shakedown at Oulton once we’ve done some basics like an oil change and bleeding the brakes. We will then take off the Cargraphic silencer to unleash the fury at Le Mans. That silencer was an inspired recommendation BTW. Think Lemon Yella RS on here was the one who suggested it. It’s just over a year since I posted here asking for advice on whether to jump in with a Cup car and here I am. It’s been awesome. The car is a peach, it’s cost a lot less than it could have to keep well maintained, and it’s turned into a great and invigorating hobby, albeit a fairly all consuming one! Props to all here who completely unaccountably encouraged me!

Awesome thank you for the update and have fun with the car I look at the ones for sale every other month and think I want one ....

Thanks! Will actually try and get some decent action shots over the summer!

MDL111 said: Awesome thank you for the update and have fun with the car I look at the ones for sale every other month and think I want one .... Do it!

Ok, so the dust has settled after the latest round of antics in Jean-Luc, so here’s what’s been going on with the car. We sent the car into a graphics shop to be put back to the original livery. They did a good job, and the car really pops out now. First outing was a morning at Oulton Park:

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The Oulton final session was scrappy to start with, with me trying a bit too hard from the off, but then I took a breather, relaxed a bit, and drove some nice smooth stuff before getting a puncture in the left rear. The tyres had done about 6 days, which is way more than a race team would let a single set go, but we hadn’t been chasing tenths here and there quite yet so that wasn’t such an issue. It did mean that they were far gone enough that it had to be a full set of Michelins we replaced them with. We got a great deal from the guys at Protyre, who had to get us sorted in time for Le Mans and managed to meet the deadline. We also needed to get some parts at the last minute from both Parr Motorsport who do the Porsche Motorsport distribution and also from Porsche Bolton, who even let us do a cheeky team photo outside. For the Le Mans Classic we did the full convoy leaving early on the Wednesday morning, which meant towing the car on the Woodford race trailer on the back of my A6 and various Porsches and other cars in the mix. It was less fun than we had hoped, given that the tow vehicle had to stay around 50 mph most of the way. Kudos to my buddy Verner and his missus Marge who did the towing while we horsed around in the stickered up convoy vehicles.

In prepping the car for Le Mans we put the stock exhaust back on for full aural rage attack.

Standing proud with the local Porsche guys. Josh Morris (second from the right), who is the parts guy we were dealing with and used to work at my local kart track, helped us with car prep and in the end came along to Le Mans for the ride! Josh is currently leading the Porsche UK dealers’ Restorace championship with two races to go.

On arrival we registered and did the first of two identical driver briefings. We took it all pretty seriously...

French moustache in honour of the great Inspector Clouseau.

Installed in the paddock before the first run.

Lined up waiting to go on track before my session. McLaren F1 GTR was one of many awesome cars from various 90s and 2000s classes including an ex-Kristenson Audi R8 and a Bentley Speed 8 Prototype.

Very Nothing like a freshly painted, original livery, race car.

Shameful poser shot.

A particularly snazzy MC12 road car was on the grid a little ahead of me. I didn’t catch him.

The official Heizer Monkeys gang photo before I went out:

And the whole damned entourage afterwards:

The stint itself was fairly short. They only gave us 20 minutes. We’re a new category and the idea is that this could develop into something bigger in the historic racing scene. But short stint or not, this was a big step up from testing at Silverstone a few weeks before. The visibility from a race car isn’t great at the best of times, but as you hit 260 kph on the long straights before braking for the chicanes, it’s harder to remember to keep looking around you for prototypes. Once when I did see an LMP2 car barrelling into Tertre Rouge, or think I’d seen one, I have no idea why I cautiously left a bit of extra space in case there was something else passing. It turned out to be a wise call. There were in fact three prototypes and a quick GT car. Funnily enough, writing this now, it occurs to me that was the corner where Anthony Beltoise, the original owner of the car I was driving (on that day in a Ferrari GT car) failed to see McNish overtaking his team mate, causing that terrible rollover accident. Anyway, I had no pretensions to serious speed so my lack of aggression served me well. Towards the end of the stint, I did realise that a few of the GT cars were taking it a bit easy and I went through on the inside a couple of times. Did those moves count as overtakes? In my opinion, most certainly. At least on the level of the best of Daniel Ricciardo, and possibly Zanardi’s effort back in the day into the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca. My opposite lock and border line tank slapper moment on exit the second time was just a bit of showmanship for the spectators..... And there it is. I went from being a trackday driver to almost a racing driver, of some description I guess, in a little over a year, and by fluke or sleight of hand ended up on the greatest racetrack in the world, surrounded by pros and legendary cars. Now back to real life...

Great write up. Shame i missed you in the paddocks , was actively looking but missed a few it seems.I did find another friend in one of the Global endurance pits who was driving his GT3 R. Would like to put mine back to original livery too. How on earth did you get that model ? I guess Beltoise would have been a fairly well known driver? Glad the exhaust has been of help. Funny you got a puncture at Oulton , did the same in mine at the RS day in 2016. My cars is now on Cup 2's Not used my car at all this year. Might manage a day in the next couple of months, will see. Have fun. Keep with the updates

superb and inspiring thread - keep us up to date!

Very cool - thank you for the write up

Having neglected the thread a bit I thought I’d give an update as to how we closed out the season and the plans for next year. So the plan had always been to try to do something with the local kids in the community as part of ownership of the car and using it properly for the maximum fun score! My brother is the secretary of a local youth club called Salford Lads Club which is a really important institution in the community just outside Manchester and the kids there really benefit from the sports including and football and boxing that the club puts on, and the trips the kids get to go on. Anyway, as a first step we did a track day at Oulton with a number of the kids where we explained to them some of the cool things about the car, they got to help prepare the car in the morning, check tyre pressures between stints, and then got some passenger laps. One of the cool things was that they seemed even more keen to help with car prep than actually get in for laps. First I did some laps with the lads, and then Josh Morris who just one the Porsche Boxster Restoracing Championship came along and showed them how it’s supoosed to be done, which of course predictably blew their minds. We’re going to repeat the experiences with the lads at the beginning and end of next season. They really got into it and one of the coolest things was that some of the driving instructors and track office staff came over to hang out and talk to the kids about motorsport and the track. The management at the track also helped with making sure that we had all the right consents with parents and stuff, and were just really supportive. We’re hoping that next year we can invite some of the kids to help out doing the car prep in the days beforehand so start to get get real mechanic experience. Plan for next year is to do Spa Classic and the Hungaroring Classic with Global Endurance Legends in the summer, and also hopefully do some gigs with the rock band the team has formed. We mostly sing songs about the renegades of motorsport history - Whittington Bros, Hunt, Eddie Irvine etc. We are much less crap than I thought we would be.

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Lemon yella RS said: Great write up. Shame i missed you in the paddocks , was actively looking but missed a few it seems.I did find another friend in one of the Global endurance pits who was driving his GT3 R. Would like to put mine back to original livery too. How on earth did you get that model ? I guess Beltoise would have been a fairly well known driver? Glad the exhaust has been of help. Funny you got a puncture at Oulton , did the same in mine at the RS day in 2016. My cars is now on Cup 2's Not used my car at all this year. Might manage a day in the next couple of months, will see. Have fun. Keep with the updates Hey mate. Just got lucky with getting the Beltoise car really. In France it got quite a bit of attention although he’s not so well known in the UK I guess. Having the old school livery is fun although of course it means I can’t customise that much other than having our names on the window. Consider Spa and Hungaroring next year!

And a cool shot of the car for those who have got over fried egg headlight phobia!

Just remembered this thread and thought I’d dig it up - did those 2019 plans ever come about in the end?

Thou said: Just remembered this thread and thought I’d dig it up - did those 2019 plans ever come about in the end? Hey Thou. In the most negligent of thread maintenance attempts, here's a bit of an update. Someone in Australia who has a 996 Cup told me he'd read the thread and enjoyed it back in the day so I felt it should get a bit of an update. In short, 2019 ended up being more about the band than the driving. The guys are in Austria - the drummer races in the Porsche Sprint Challenge series around Europe and has some pretty cool cars himself, including a 991 GT2 Racecar. I played some small gigs in 2019 at Le Mans but 2020 Covid put paid to the possibility of the band doing the full stadium gig at the 24. We’ll see about 2022 I guess. Meanwhile the band recorded an album during 2020 and not much driving happened. We did the Rennsport Collective track day which was epic as always but understandably not quite as busy as the year before. This year we’ve been to Silverstone, despite a last minute panic over a throttle cable - Dan at werk-1.com managed to get one couriered over last minute from Porsche Motorsport and fitted by his buddy Matt at Fearnsport who is, it turns out, a legendary Porsche mechanic, as those who know will quickly say. Silverstone was epic. It was very wet and very good fun. Here’s a short clip. https://youtu.be/WTvAW5sXoDY The car really is phenomenal in the wet with full wet tyres. It was scary and visibility behind cars non existent, but very rewarding. Brands hatch planned for this Tuesday, then probably focus on the ring and the CSL for the summer if Covid allows, before back to track days in the UK in the Cup for the Autumn. I promise not to wait so long to update next time!

Spot of rain.

Before going out.

I've learned over the years that chairs are underrated on track days.

Looks more graceful than it felt.

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Found this after a search, someone who knows I’m looking for a 996 GT3 road car offered me a 996 Cup Car suspiciously cheap! Having towed cars to track days in the past I’m not exactly averse to the idea but I’m not convinced I’d not miss taking it out on local roads every now and again.