Changing Plugs, tips please

I am coming up on 90K miles and about to change the plugs on my 2012 2.9. Since I don't have a full history, I do not know if the plugs have been changed previously. Assuming they have not, how likely am I to have an issue? Rather than just force any that are snug, I wanted to get some tips. Hot, Warm, or Cold is best to pull them?\ Any value to using some penetrating spray around the plugs and soaking before trying? Any recommendation for a thread lube/anti-seize on the new plugs?

A warm engine is best. If you drive the car until it gets to operating temp, it will likely be warm by the time you get it lifted, wheels removed and to the plugs. You don’t need any penetrating oil. Just use a good socket and extensions with steady pressure when removing. A real big no to antisieze for the new plugs.

That and wheel studs.. anti seize belongs on wheel hub bores… this way you don’t have to kick them off.. my MB was real bad until I did this

Thanks for the tips. I know all about anti-seize and torquing threads, but also learned long ago the some metals seem to like a little. In a past life I saw way too many times the plug threads on 60's/70's Fiats come right out with the plug . Never had stuck rotors on an MB, but almost every time with an old Audi .

Have a variety of extensions, shorts mids, longs and a U joint adaptor. The cover plate hardware is easy to drop, consider a magnet, also remembering them as torx bolts so you need a set. When you remove or replace the covers they only go in and out in a circuitous route. You need patience so they don't get bent they are thin aluminum. Make sure you are always square on each plug , use progressive force don't crank on them.

Did thousands of Fiat plugs, never saw ONE bring threads with it. We saw a lot of " I'll make it worse then bring it to the dealership" repairs. I'm confident many of those owners ran on the principle tighter is always better, perhaps that accounts for the plug behavior. Those Lampredi engines were incredible given the era of their design, twas the fiat bodies that sent them to early graves. Sorry, this reads as defensive and maybe it is. We took cars other dealers couldn't fix because my dad worked on race engines, Ferrari's and more. In the era of Fiats, double overhead cam engines with aluminum heads were not ubiqoitous, as such they got ruined a lot by USA mechanics. They damaged the calipers the same way, via igornace of disassembly.

Maybe I just had "bad Fiat luck", they were usually poorly maintained before I got them (high school years). Yes, loved those twin-cam engines. And yes, rust was on spec sheet for every panel and joint. I think there was a joke about the Germans inventing rust, and licensing it to the Italians.

The Germans sold Italy the steel and they would not sell them the premium product, the joke is based in truth. That's also why a Ferrari 308 GTS stored and cared for like a child will almost always have rust. If you drove Fiat's where they salted roads you literally had about five years. Side note story, how did my dad get the dealership? Fiat brought four cars nobody could repair to my dad, he fixed them all. Then they asked can we bring some more? My dad a proud Italian himself said, "sure bring them all". After the second round of repairs and customer reviews they came a third time and said "would you like to be a dealer"?

I will add one small thing - get a set of LOCKING extensions. I sourced a set on Amazon or maybe Harbor Freight . They were inexpensive and saved a lot of time and trouble.

So how much risk their really if one or more being stuck. Some say to retorque forward and then remove. There is no shortage of "old mechanics tales" as to the best way. Maybe I'm over worried? As for the Fiats, we started with a 1967 124 sedan, then followef that with a 1971 124 Sport Coupe with a twin cam. Then a Lancia Beta Sedan, then another 71 124 to borrow parts from, and then a x1/9 I was going to put the spare TwinCam engine into, but never finished, then discovered Porsche with a 77, 924 Martini.

Something like this would be very useful, thanks [emoji1374]. I didn’t even know they existed. NEIKO 00295A 3/8" Drive Locking Extension Bar Set, 3 Piece, 3", 6", 10" https://a.co/d/hcpzFGJ Shawn in VA (USA)

If a plug feels like it's getting tighter and harder to loosen as it's coming out, tighten it back in a bit, then loosen again. Plugs sometimes build carbon on the threads nearest the combustion chamber and that carbon gums the threads in the head, making it hard to get the plug loosened and out. By loosening, tightening, loosening the plug , you'll break down the carbon. The last thing you want to have happen is gum up the threads so badly that it cross threads the head on the way out.

Cold engine. No penetrating oil I buy quite a bit from FCP Euro. The Porsche Ignition Coil Kit - Beru 996IGNCLKT Includes Qty Part SKU Brand Price 6 Direct Ignition Coil BRU-ZS178 $263.34 6 Spark Plug BOS-FGR5KQE0 $35.34 1 Dielectric Grease PMX-81150 $2.69 The 2nd time I have used those plugs. Very happy with them. Not sure why they include the grease. Porsche does not recommend its use as it acts as an insulator where good contact is important. Here is the video I found most helpful for the coils and plugs. There is a need to be careful when pulling the electrical connectors from the coils. Push at the back of the release with fingers vs. using flat blade screwdriver to pry up (as I dumbly did and broke the tab off of one ☹ I would recommend this swivel spark plug socket: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0014ZVSVK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

...but the video shows a screwdriver being used to lift the tab?

Great suggestions! thank you for the links. already have the plug but I'm going to get the coils. FCP is a great source, picked up my rotors and pads from them.

Yep, the video is not perfect. I always try to watch multiple videos, along with referring to "101 Project for your Porsche Boxster " and then compiling best approach.

Dielectric grease should not affect the electrical connection. It will be displaced by the connection and seal the metals from moisture and corrosion.

Yes and no... a properly working connector should wipe and clean the contact area during insertion (part of the design of a connector)... but as they age, they don't wipe as well, and can leave behind a film which can degrade the connection. Bottom line is that dielectric grease is an INSULATOR... so it doesn't make any sense to put it on the electrical connection. You can put it on after the connection is made (eg, battery terminal posts) or on the ceramic to keep it from sticking to the boot or providing a conductive path out from the connector (the grease prevents the intrusion of water and other crap, which can conduct the high-voltage from the connector out along the boot/ceramic surface). But it doesn't belong on the contact interface.

Schwinn is exactly correct (used to have this discussion for years in some BMW motorcycle groups I was part of..) The idea of the dielectric (silicone usually) grease for the plugs is to keep the rubber tip of the coil from sticking to the porcelain insulator on the plug . It also will help keep moisture from getting past the rubber tip to the connector. It's not intended for use on actual contact surfaces. I've often used silicone greases to condition rubber parts of electrical devices - if you work it into the rubber - it helps prevent oxidation which causes the rubber to crack with age. It's also useful on O-rings used in the cooling system, helping to protect them from oxygen and liquid exposure, lengthening their lifetime. "GummiPhledge" the rubber treatment sold for a small fortune by Porsche and BMW (and probably all German car makers) is nothing more (or less) than high-vacuum silicone grease. Cheaper if purchased as a laboratory-grade product (it's used on O-rings on vacuum systems to enhance their sealing capability and prolong their life..)

Always remove and replace spark plugs with engine cold. Add just a small amount of copper anti seize on the first 2-3 threads of the plugs just to cover the root diameter of the thread. If it looks like it isn't enough, than you got it. Place a pea sized dab of dielectric grease around the inside lip of the coil boot. Make sure to clean any corrosion from the coil bolts and mating surface to ensure conductivity of the coil packs. They need to be grounded to the engine. A very thin layer of dielectric grease is good there also. If they are feeling tight on the way out, as previously stated, work them in and out a few times before just ripping them all the way out. Remember when torquing the new ones in you will be compressing a new washer that may bring you close to the final setting without making it fully home.

I would rather this NOT get into a long discussion on the use of antiseize on plug threads in aluminum heads - it's been discussed at great length here before, but I will say this: Porsche does not recommend antiseize on plug threads. There are various reasons why that might be which I won't go into here (PM me if you want details.) Plug manufacturers generally do not recommend antiseize on plugs into aluminum heads. (Again - for these reasons PM me.) I believe there has been enough knowledge shared about changing plugs. I may decide to close this thread if it goes off the rails with an antiseize/plugs discussion (a bit of searching will turn up numerous ones both here and all over the Internet.)

Understood. It's just what I do, right or wrong.

Ok, started the job. Rear 2 on the left were really tight. Probably tighter than any plugs I have pulled without finding bad threads. Threads look fine. Front plug is (luckily) not as tight. Going slowly because that one requires a universal joint and I don't want to snap anything. Hopefully the right side is no worse. P.S. I started with a slightly warm engine because I had to drive the car to the shop I did about an hour's work on other stuff before starting on the car. Next time I'll probably drive it over the night before and start with a dead cold.

I changed mine yesterday at 105000km. They were so tight I thought I was going to snap them, especially the two forward ones

Glad you got them out. And this is why I’d say it needs to be done every 3-4 years. Just in case… Shawn in VA (USA)

Dissimilar metals do tend to freeze up when bolted together for years. Steel plug , Al head- And not to add to the debate, but I use a little, very little, AZP grease for electrical connections. Like the plug -head connection. Keeps corrosion at bay. It's not dielectric grease. Corrosion is what makes the dissimilar metals freeze up.

I did a Google on AZP grease - and nothing came back except some references to Krytox, which I'm familiar with. That's a really exotic aerospace grease and horribly expensive (a tiny tube of it is quite costly.. at one time it cost more than gold.. (Granger has a 7kg bucket of it for $38,000 and change.. probably free delivery though..) I've got to mark the tube of it in my toolbox - so my granddaughter will know she can pay for college with it after I'm gone... but - it might be useful for plugs, it is high-temperature rated. BTW - welcome to Planet-9, the Friendly Porsche Forum! How about visiting New Member Introductions and telling us all about you and your Porsche(s).. pictures are always welcomed!

DeOxIt is great stuff. Use it on noisy volume controls and sensitive electronic connections. I don't think it is the same as the high temp PTFE stuff.

Deoxit comes in different forms. What I'm using is a grease, not a spray like you would use for electronic parts. If you look up Caig labs they have a dizzying number of products