Engine Oil Consumption

Not sure how to let you boyz(girlz) in on this...but the flat 6 will *always* consume more engine oil than the 90 degree(or any positive degree) versions. Period. I saw a petition here about 2 months ago asking Porsche to stop the oil consumption. Classic. Silly really. I started laughing... hehehe. I own a CS, but can tell you...without reservation...the pistons sit in the oil!!! the grooves will leak and the car will always spit out a puff of smoke after a night of sitting. There is no way to stop it. Duh! Am I the only engineer on this site? There is no way, according to the second law of thermodynamics(Think Einstein), that a flat six can NOT burn more oil than a 90 degree (or other positive degree) version. It's impossible. Never. Look...Drive the CS, look great, whatever, but dont kid yourselves into ever thinking that this engine, or any other flat version will not blow smoke. I fly piston airplanes as well and ANYONE with the flat six versions will tell you, that they leak oil. I'm not bashing the horizontally opposed engine...I own one, I'm just saying that acceptance is the first step to recovery. Drive the Cayman, look cool, put oil in it, and shut up. I am and hope you will too.

Working in the Healthcare field as I do, (often with Delusional Patients) I am amazed how unaware they are about their own abilities. Most of them 'Fly Planes', 'Know Einstein Intimately' and some even have found the cure for all cancers, as well as being Engineers! If the original Poster had bothered to read the circumstances surrounding the need for a petition on oil ingestion on the race track, I doubt that they would have written what they did. Porsche do make an effective air/oil Separator, (which some members have fitted to their Caymans ) but do not fit it. Being Black Flagged after High Speed Left Hand Bends - on an expensive track day is no fun for anyone. And using a litre of oil in one day, being sucked into the air intake from the standardly fitted (useless) air/oil separator - cannot be good for the engine - nor can be considered 'normal' for a flat six engine. How about looking and learning, using the search engine, before making pronouncements?

emccombs, It’s early, but I think you will get some heat on this today. The petition you are referring to was not about standing oil after a prolonged engine shutdown, it was about the lack of a true dry sump system on the 987 engine. The engine design can result in a large amount of oil burn when doing certain maneuvers on the track. PAG has documented that this can be a problem with certain tire combinations due to the lateral force created when cornering. I am no expert but I think you missed the point of the petition.

Troll? Idiot? Both? Well, the posters above have pointed out that the petition and most of the other lengthy discussion on oil burning have nothing to do with the typical flat six oil smoke after sitting. Many of the folks on this site have owned many a Porsche (not me unfortunately) and have repeatedly educated the rest of us on this issue. The only engineer? Not even close. I am continually surprised at the number of engineers (Mechanical Engineer myself) and scientists that actively participate in this forum. If you truly are an engineer (?), then you should know that the second law has nothing to do with Einstein, nor is it likely applied to oil use in a flat six engine. If I remember correctly, common use of the 2nd law is to describe the inability to use all energy available and explain the ever increasing disorder in the universe. The latter being the likely effect of your original post. If you are going to stick around here, then please change your tone and add something constructive. Cheers,

Burning oil? Are you joking? I just finished a 4,837 mile round trip from Las Vegas to the Porsche Parade in Charlotte, NC... much of it at some pretty high speeds, up and over numerous mountain ranges, and all of it in summer temperatures. My oil level sits right where it was when I left. As pointed out by the others, you've missed the point of the oil ingestion problems faced by most who put their cars on the track. I've owned seven Prsches over the years and yeah, many times you get a puff of oil smoke on start-up - so what's new? brad

Eccombs, Don't be so arrogant and condescending. If you are an engineer then I am surprised that you don't understand the relatively unique oil consumption problem with the Cayman, that is if you have bothered to attempt to educate yourself on this forum, or elsewhere. All flat sixes with a dry sump oil system will burn oil? Well for that matter all combustion engines will burn oil, lots of factors and variables affect the oil blow by amount into the combustion chamber despite the orientation of the cylinders.. Agreed? The Cayman oil burning problem is a result of oil being forced into the air intake system due to extreme cornering maneuvers at high rpms, many believe that this is due to a faulty oil separation design.

Beez: My oil level gauge is broken too.

Just what I'd expect from a Cadillac owner....

A cure for cancer? What planet are you from Dr. The medical field and big pharma will never find a cure for cancer (what a scam on the American public). there is no $$ in the cure but only the treatment of the Dx. As for the engineer quotes that is out of my league, but from reading the forum oil consumption is normal for the cayman.

Remove foot from mouth and try again. I realize you are a relatively new member here and are prone to making a mistake like this, but please, do some research and reading here first before spouting off with the "I know more than you do" attitude that is coming across from your post. This site is about HELPING people, what is it about your message that you are suggesting will "help" some other member here?

You know, Jim... I was thinking that, too... (kidding) brad

No. Just the only one who confuses thermodynamics with hydraulics. And the only one who is confusing the "burning of oil" with "leaking oil". And the only one who doesn't understand the "smoke" issue that is the result of the air-oil separator not being up to the task on the track. And apparently the first engineer in history who learns by NOT reading. Are you this kind of engineer? That would explain a lot. The other boyz and girlz on the site know just how much restraint I am showing right now. Now...man-up and kick in $25 with a nice humble smile and get on with being part of this great community.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

TX-KmanS: You've probably already heard all the Texan jokes, but, for others, my comment about my oil level gauge being broke too, is a take-off on the Texan bragging about it taking 3 hours to drive to the end of his property. A listener replied, "I once had a truck like that too."

Veddy interestink that the OP hasn't posted any more in this thread.... Engineer, huh? When I graduated college, one my classmates wore a T-shirt (under his robe) that said: "Yesterday, I couldn't spell Engineer. Now I are one."

If he's an engineer he must have slept through a semester or so during thermodynamics. Don't recall 2nd law on increasing entropy being related to Einstein or oil leaks though I've heard it popularized as you can't break even.

The three laws as I remember them: 1. You can never win you can only break even 2. You can only break even at absolute 0 3. You can never get to absolute 0 so you can only loose.

Run for cover, IN COMING !!! I have not read anything like this since I read about General Custer playing the Indians, too funny. Hope the OP rethinks his post and is man enough to just admit that he was wrong, hey we all make mistakes. I think the members of this forum would forgive him. OP just say your sorry, we will forgive and forget, eventually.

I have never tracked my CS (at some point I will do a DE and then consider some sort of track time, such as AutoX) and it is not my DD, but I do now have almost 20,000 miles on it, and with normal use have only had to add oil myself (not counting dealer service) once. I think that is very good. The CS seems to consume less oil than any other car I have owned. I don't remember many if any Cayman owners on this web site complaining about oil consumption in Caymans that are not tracked and are driven normally on roads and hiways. It certainly seems to consume less oil than the older aircooled Porsches.

Agree. My 356 and 912 both would start up with a puff- after fresh rebuilds, after broken in, after being worn out, etc. Nothing like that from the Cayman so far.

I would ask if any of your patients drive a Cayman but I see the OP is from Texas.

4 weeks and 6,600 miles (6,200 Parade trip) since the last oil change and the level is still on the same bar. 26,400 miles on the engine so far. The only time the car burned any noticable amount of oil was during the break-in period, when it burned about 0.5 liters in the first 1,800 miles. I followed the low RPM, no short trip break-in procedure in the manual.

Throll. Don't forget your flame suit.

Perhaps you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night? Way to introduce yourself to the Club! Might want to start over.

making ammends...hopefully Wow.. I read my original post and I too thought it was a little harsh. I just read everyones response to my original post for the first time. I think that it was out of line for what it was intended...or at least perceived. Somebody predicted it, and it happened. Sorry, as I have received alot of good info from this site. Sometimes my type-A and a couple of beers doesn't bode well with posts My only point is that this car will always lose (not necessarily burn) more oil than other cars where the pistons/head dont sit in the oil. The horizontal engine puts unequal prussure on the bottom side of the piston and it will always be that way. There is no way around it. No dry sump system, no special rings.. anything. If you think so, then the second law of thermodynamics apply (Disorder systems (entropy) goes towards a maximum disorder until equilabrium at that point). No Einstein didn't come up with it (circa Sadi Carnot), but it was tounge and cheek. When I bought my CS, the first thing the salesman said was that they all have a little puff of smoke when they start. I just smiled. I believe that one way Porsche has dealt with this is to put extra oil (I heard 10 quarts?) to allow for the extra drain that is going to happen. When I was in high school some 20 years ago, I had a VW and I overhauled the engine so many times that I could do it after school, but before going out. Everytime, the bottom of the piston had more scores than the top. It wasn't due to VW, but the angle of the pistons. My aircraft mechanics say the exact same thing. So whether it's a VW, Porsche, or Continental, all of them have the same problem. The only reason single engine GA aircraft have the horizontally opposed engine is for clearances over the cowl. Oh..sure you can drive it from NY to LA and not notice oil loss, but I promise there was. The other thing is that the more you drive it the less, you probably will notice it. If you let it sit for a couple of days, then for sure, you will see it. The oil is seeping around all the scars of the metal and making it's way into the chamber. Facts for what people said or me. 1) I'm not in the medical field 2) I'm an engineer and I fly single engine 6 cyclinders for fun 3) I deserved the comment about me sounding condesending 4) All horizontal opposed piston engines will use more oil than positive degree versions. What I'm doing this weekend: * Install Dension 500 * Install BTA 1500 * Fix the damn bass by stuffing it * Hard wire my Valentine * Install Xpress RC All of this was because of this site...so many thanks!! I'll post the pics + timeline. -Ed

Can't speak for others but I have had moments in my life where I wished I had never spoken or acted in a particular way. I never hold a grudge, just unproductive. I respect anyone that can recognized their own transgressions and own up to it. I can not speak for this board but as for me, WELCOME BACK.

Yes I've seen where beers and posting don't mix, there should be some rule against that... While I concur that horizontally opposed engines will over time use more oil than "V" engines or "I" engines, the issue around oil smoke that you were seeing discussed on this site had to do with the oil separator and G loads and ingestion of oil, not the typical seepage you discuss. It might be worthwhile just for your understanding of the problem to go back and read some of those topics. As an FYI my car is using more oil than it did previously, but making more horsepower and not having ingestion problems, probably just the rings re-seating. Welcome back and looking forward to some articles/photos of your modifications.

using more oil now You know, for the first 18 months of ownership my CS didn't seem to use a drop, but now I am down over a litre every 1500 to 2000 kms (basically the difference between the top and the bottom bars once every month). I have no leaks that I can see on the garage floor, and my dealer who is excellence said that this is normal. Anyone else have to add oil as much as me?

Hey, Ken - While that is within spec, and the dealer is correct to tell you this, the anecdotal evidence says that's pretty unusual. From what I read on the board, and the experience of personal friends with Cayman Ss, this seems high. There are places you can have leaks, and if it's slow enough, it will stay in the under-tray and not necessarily drip right on the floor or street, and will clear itself off the under-tray when you're moving... you should check the underside to see if there's any wetness or signs of previous oil wetness. We have heard of oil leaks - usually around the cam towers. I had a leak on a cam tower that I had no idea was there, it was found during the 20K miles service, and I never saw any spots on my fancy pebble-finished epoxy garage floor - if there had been, I would have seen them. I just drove to Charlotte and back to LV in early July, and didn't burn enough oil to move the e-dipstick from where it was when I left. brad

The long German name for the under tray translates into English as "oil leak catch tray." Porsche said it's for aerodynamics, but technicians say it's saved them from a lot of picky owners who don't like even one drop of oil on the garage floor. I think it first appeared on the 964, but those who tracked knew to remove it so the engine could get more air, as well as being able to tell when an oil leak was starting to get out of hand.

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha... nice one, Jim. brad

There are 3 different types of oil leaks for the CS (and for all other cars). This really is for all cars. 1) Oil leaking from your car (floor, road, etc) 2) Oil leaking into your chamber (when it sits while it's off) 3) Oil burn from chamber (smoke while driving) I believe, based on my experience that 1 and 3 are very infrequent for the Porsche CS. If you have either of those 2 then you need to be concerned, and take it the dealer. #2 is what I think is an oil travisty and it's by design. This is one where you dont see oil on the floor, your car doesn't smoke when it takes off, but it still continues to lose oil on a good clip. In that case, you just gotta suck it up as the design. Additional horsepower (i.e. pressure on the piston) will cause additional leakage as well.