N Rated Tyres - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

2004 Boxster S I need 4 tyres replaced. Can’t get Michelin Pilot N3 fronts anywhere in Uk Tried most tyre dealers and Porsche Belfast who confirmed that fronts are not available and rears have at least 6/8 weeks estimated delivery. Pirelli Continental and Goodyear no longer do N3 only N4 and again no availability. As I need to replace now, what do I do? What non N rated quality tyres would be recommended. Regards Eddie

Michelin Pilot Sport 4S is the obvious answer! Mega tyres.

Definitely wouldn't be going back to a (much) older design tyre just for the sake of the N rating. As long as the size fits, any of the current 'high performance' tyres would be good enough and certainly better than the original pilot sport or PS2 as mentioned. Would always go for the Michelin option (ie PS4S or Cup2 if you want a track tyre) but the continental (whatever sportcontact now)/goodyear (eagle F1 supersport or something) equivalent would also be viable options. I have a bit of a dislike for Pirelli Pzeros so would never take them if I could fwiw but I'm likely a little biased after a couple of bad experiences....

isaldiri said: Definitely wouldn't be going back to a (much) older design tyre just for the sake of the N rating. As long as the size fits, any of the current 'high performance' tyres would be good enough and certainly better than the original pilot sport or PS2 as mentioned. Would always go for the Michelin option (ie PS4S or Cup2 if you want a track tyre) but the continental (whatever sportcontact now)/goodyear (eagle F1 supersport or something) equivalent would also be viable options. I have a bit of a dislike for Pirelli Pzeros so would never take them if I could fwiw but I'm likely a little biased after a couple of bad experiences.... That is my thoughts to a T

Any big brand high performance summer tyre in the right size, speed and load ratings will be fine. Opinions will obviously vary as to which is the best choice. But pretty much all will be objectively better than the now very, very old N rated tyre designs for a 986.

The n rating system means that the same named tyre can have had a number of updates. Numbers start at N0 and increase by 1 each tyre update. For my Cayman the n rated tyre is the PS2 N4. People comment that the PS2 is an "old design" but the N4 is the 5th Porsche rated version of the tyre and is not the same as an original non n rated PS2. I'm not suggestuing the PS2 N4 is Michelins latest tyre, but it also isn't the old tech people make it out to be and tread and compounds have been updated. From experience on a number of cars, I'd avoid P Zeros. I've found them very poor in the wet and cooler temps. I went from N rated PS2s to PSS and the N rated PS2 was better, depsite being the "older tyre". PS4S are a fairly safe bet if nothing n rated is available - up to you if you want n rated tyres. For extended warranty, it's a must, but on a 19 year old car I don't imagine it is eligable and you can fit what you want. PS4S are 18" and up so you might not get them for your car, but worth a look. Ultimately it's up to you what value you put on the n rating, but a higher n number (of the same tyre) is a good thing.

It would depend on size, but if 18/19” i would go for any non- n rated michelin ps4/goodyear f1/conti sport 7 etc. For 17” your choice is limited, but again non n-rated dunlop/toyo/falken brand would be fine i’m sure.

PaulD86 said: I'm not suggestuing the PS2 N4 is Michelins latest tyre, but it also isn't the old tech people make it out to be and tread and compounds have been updated. They're updated, but they're still old tech. And the PS2 'N4' version itself came out a long time ago, let alone the original PS2. Old tech on every level. Things have moved on since. A lot. It's also worth noting that there are dramatic differences between N-spec tyres for a given car. If you're tried all the available N spec tyres for a given chassis, you quickly realise that N spec doesn't mean much. It doesn't guarantee you a particular sort of tyre or performance characteristics. Broadly, and especially for older Porsche platforms, N spec is best ignored. Also... PaulD86 said: For extended warranty, it's a must, I believe this is no longer true.

GeeTeeBee said: I believe this is no longer true. It will depend if you need a 111-point check or not. If you're extending an existing warranty you'll be fine as no check is required0 however, if re-entering the system after a warranty expiry I think you'll need N-rated tyres to pass the check. Happy to be corrected if N-rated is no longer part of the 111-point check

steady eddie said: 2004 Boxster S I need 4 tyres replaced. Can’t get Michelin Pilot N3 fronts anywhere in Uk Tried most tyre dealers and Porsche Belfast who confirmed that fronts are not available and rears have at least 6/8 weeks estimated delivery. Pirelli Continental and Goodyear no longer do N3 only N4 and again no availability. As I need to replace now, what do I do? What non N rated quality tyres would be recommended. Regards Eddie As above, IMO and IME steer clear of 1990s R&D of any PS2 and fit something modern.... It does depend on your wheel size: Read https://www.tyrereviews.com/ specifically this https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Tyre-Revi... or if on 17s https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Tyre-Revi... Jon has a particular liking for Conti Premium 6 for fast/dry conditions, which you can still get in 17, but any of Goodyear, Conti or Mich in the above tests will never be the wrong tyre.

If it is a 2004 car we are talking about here, not sure that is still able to get an extended Porsche warranty. If so, no need to ensure that you've got N-rated tyres. If it were my car I would likely just find the lastest Michelin tyre for your wheel size - Likely PS4S or PS5.

AAAndy said: If it is a 2004 car we are talking about here, not sure that is still able to get an extended Porsche warranty. If so, no need to ensure that you've got N-rated tyres. If it were my car I would likely just find the lastest Michelin tyre for your wheel size - Likely PS4S or PS5. Tyre reviews have done a few tests whether OE tyres are worth it or not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COA630Juf_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JLvNj3z3oY

kharma45 said: AAAndy said: If it is a 2004 car we are talking about here, not sure that is still able to get an extended Porsche warranty. If so, no need to ensure that you've got N-rated tyres. If it were my car I would likely just find the lastest Michelin tyre for your wheel size - Likely PS4S or PS5. Tyre reviews have done a few tests whether OE tyres are worth it or not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COA630Juf_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JLvNj3z3oY You (and Jon) are 100% correct that this should be considered..... IF we were talking about any even vaguely current tyre, which the PS2 is not. 'Recent' N-rated tyres don't fit the 986.

986 is generally 17"and 18" and the latest PS4S and Cup 2 etc generally aren't available in the right size in 18" and barely available in any size in 17". They are mostly available for cars with 19" or bigger wheels.

'04 could be a 987?

Twinfan said: '04 could be a 987? It would be an outlier as generally the earliest 987 is 54 plate. The last hurrah 986 the 550 Anniversary are all 04.

Orangecurry said: As above, IMO and IME steer clear of 1990s R&D of any PS2 and fit something modern.... It does depend on your wheel size: Read https://www.tyrereviews.com/ specifically this https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Tyre-Revi... or if on 17s https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Tyre-Revi... Jon has a particular liking for Conti Premium 6 for fast/dry conditions, which you can still get in 17, but any of Goodyear, Conti or Mich in the above tests will never be the wrong tyre. I’d love it if jon- would test a new PS2 old tech tyre against a new new tech tyre on an older car like a 2004 boxster to settle the argument, but sadly will never happen ( I would even lend him my boxster equipped with 2021 date PS2 in 17” sizes to rag around a circuit)

Size? Had a set of N fitment PS2s on my 987 (18s) and now running a set of PS4 - better in every way imo and also cheaper.

GeeTeeBee said: PaulD86 said: I'm not suggestuing the PS2 N4 is Michelins latest tyre, but it also isn't the old tech people make it out to be and tread and compounds have been updated. They're updated, but they're still old tech. And the PS2 'N4' version itself came out a long time ago, let alone the original PS2. Old tech on every level. Things have moved on since. A lot. Lets put it like this. I've run different tyres on my Cayman R and can confirm that the handling on the N4 PS2 is excellent in dry and wet. Indeed they out performed the Pilot Super Sports which replaced them in most circumstances, despite the PSS having an initial launch date 8 years after the original PS2. And even the PS4S is now 7 years old and in the process of being replaced by the PSS5 (because they couldn't call it a 5S, could they). I've driven many miles in a 997 C4S in all weathers on the N-rated PS2 and struggle to think of a time where I thought they were lacking grip for road use... except in the snow. It's easy to get carried away with thinking the latest must be the greatest and to snub anything which is "old tech", but these are tyres for a car which is "old tech" and on these cars they work extremely well. I'll be clear, I'm not suggesting some newer offerings aren't better - they may be, but without trying a pile of tyres on the same car back to back, that's hard to say. What I am saying, however, is that on older Porsches, like the OP has, the PS2 performs very well and is not exactly lacking grip for road use. If the OP tracks their car, then I'd look elsewhere. Also, do you have any link re the warranty? I'd be somewhat surprised if Porsche had dropped that requirement.

The main difference between the N rated PS2 tyre is the outside 1/3 of the tyre uses a harder compound than the non N rated tyre, and also the PS4 and PS4S in fact. This is why the steering feels sharper and the turn in feels far more precise, but you do get far more tyre noise and lose a fair bit of comfort. Also, the N, N1, N3 and N4 are each time the tyre changes in that particular size, so you could get say a 235.45.18 N3 and a 265.40.18 N4 (made up examples) that are actually the same, just means the 265.40.18 is on its 5th revision as it that size has been out longer. All sizes get revised at the same time, so mixing N3 and N4 is fine if N3 was the latest version. There is far more discussion on this subject on the US forums, where they do have PS4S's available in the correct sizes for the older cars like 986s, and many felt they lost really lost out on steering feel, even with the 4S, so went back to the N rated PS2. Many seem to think that a marque rated tyre is when say Porsche or BMW simply test Michelin's tyre and say "Yeah that is good.". The reality is that they tend to work with the tyre manufacturer to get the feel they want from a tyre, which often means changing the compound, or changing the compound in certain parts of the tyre to achieve that. Not all of them, I'm sure more do just grab an off the shelf product and stick their approved mark on them, but I know Porsche did put a firmer compound on the outside 1/3 and sidewall of the later N rated PS2s. Actually, they always were firmer, they actually put a softer compound on the inside 2/3 of the later versions, which makes sense from a design perspective on a sporty car that many use daily. I'm not saying buy N rated PS2 tyres or not, I don''t. But I know a lot of people in the States who really felt when they moved away from the N rated tyres the car lost some of its precision. For me, with our crappy UK roads, loosing that steering feel is sort of worth the extra comfort a softer tyre brings and so much quieter. I do miss the steering feel when I get onto a nice smooth twisty road though.

deutsche.diagnostics said: The main difference between the N rated PS2 tyre is the outside 1/3 of the tyre uses a harder compound than the non N rated tyre, and also the PS4 and PS4S in fact. This is why the steering feels sharper and the turn in feels far more precise, but you do get far more tyre noise and lose a fair bit of comfort. Also, the N, N1, N3 and N4 are each time the tyre changes in that particular size, so you could get say a 235.45.18 N3 and a 265.40.18 N4 (made up examples) that are actually the same, just means the 265.40.18 is on its 5th revision as it that size has been out longer. All sizes get revised at the same time, so mixing N3 and N4 is fine if N3 was the latest version. There is far more discussion on this subject on the US forums, where they do have PS4S's available in the correct sizes for the older cars like 986s, and many felt they lost really lost out on steering feel, even with the 4S, so went back to the N rated PS2. Many seem to think that a marque rated tyre is when say Porsche or BMW simply test Michelin's tyre and say "Yeah that is good.". The reality is that they tend to work with the tyre manufacturer to get the feel they want from a tyre, which often means changing the compound, or changing the compound in certain parts of the tyre to achieve that. Not all of them, I'm sure more do just grab an off the shelf product and stick their approved mark on them, but I know Porsche did put a firmer compound on the outside 1/3 and sidewall of the later N rated PS2s. Actually, they always were firmer, they actually put a softer compound on the inside 2/3 of the later versions, which makes sense from a design perspective on a sporty car that many use daily. What you say there may well be true - the issue, and where Porsche/Michelin really dropped the ball, is that they refused to publish/confirm the functional differences. I don't know where you get your data from, but it's not confirmed by either party - quoting 'proprietary' reasons as to why they will not list. If they had done so, and treated us like grown-ups, then many more owners may well have bought the tyres.

deutsche.diagnostics said: All sizes get revised at the same time, so mixing N3 and N4 is fine if N3 was the latest version. All sizes get revised at the same time? How does that happen? Say you have a front tyre of whatever say 225/40/18 and a rear of 265/35/18 that was a full N0 or full N1 set as OEM tyres at one point in time. If all sizes are revised at the same time, you shouldn't have a N3 front and N4 rear as a result. And in theory one should as far as possible try to match N numbers in that case. Well unless at inception on model release the car came with a mismatch in N1 numbers like N0 front and N1 rear.......

deutsche.diagnostics said: I'm not saying buy N rated PS2 tyres or not, I don''t. But I know a lot of people in the States who really felt when they moved away from the N rated tyres the car lost some of its precision. For me, with our crappy UK roads, loosing that steering feel is sort of worth the extra comfort a softer tyre brings and so much quieter. I do miss the steering feel when I get onto a nice smooth twisty road though. The problem with that theory is the variance across N rated tyres. If you've tried all the N rated tyres for a given Porsche platform, you'll find they can vary pretty dramatically. With absolute certainty, I can say there are non N rated tyres that give more steering precision than some N rated tyres for certain Porsche platforms. By way of example, there's a particular N rated Goodyear F1 Asym for the 987 platform that's remarkably soft and woolly feeling. I mean really, really soft and woolly, not just a bit. If you wanted steering feel and precision, that particular N spec tyre would be a far, far worse choice than pretty much any recent big-brand performance tyre. You absolutely cannot generalise about N spec tyres and say that, for instance, N spec is the best choice for steering feel. For whatever it is you favour in a tyre, a given N spec tyre on a given Porsche platform may or may not be the best choice. Edited by GeeTeeBee on Thursday 20th April 11:49

deutsche.diagnostics said: The main difference between the N rated PS2 tyre is the outside 1/3 of the tyre uses a harder compound than the non N rated tyre, and also the PS4 and PS4S in fact. This is why the steering feels sharper and the turn in feels far more precise, but you do get far more tyre noise and lose a fair bit of comfort. Also, the N, N1, N3 and N4 are each time the tyre changes in that particular size, so you could get say a 235.45.18 N3 and a 265.40.18 N4 (made up examples) that are actually the same, just means the 265.40.18 is on its 5th revision as it that size has been out longer. All sizes get revised at the same time, so mixing N3 and N4 is fine if N3 was the latest version. There is far more discussion on this subject on the US forums, where they do have PS4S's available in the correct sizes for the older cars like 986s, and many felt they lost really lost out on steering feel, even with the 4S, so went back to the N rated PS2. Many seem to think that a marque rated tyre is when say Porsche or BMW simply test Michelin's tyre and say "Yeah that is good.". The reality is that they tend to work with the tyre manufacturer to get the feel they want from a tyre, which often means changing the compound, or changing the compound in certain parts of the tyre to achieve that. Not all of them, I'm sure more do just grab an off the shelf product and stick their approved mark on them, but I know Porsche did put a firmer compound on the outside 1/3 and sidewall of the later N rated PS2s. Actually, they always were firmer, they actually put a softer compound on the inside 2/3 of the later versions, which makes sense from a design perspective on a sporty car that many use daily. I'm not saying buy N rated PS2 tyres or not, I don''t. But I know a lot of people in the States who really felt when they moved away from the N rated tyres the car lost some of its precision. For me, with our crappy UK roads, loosing that steering feel is sort of worth the extra comfort a softer tyre brings and so much quieter. I do miss the steering feel when I get onto a nice smooth twisty road though. Interesting post. On the manufacturer versions of tyres, I always find this interesting.

Orangecurry said: What you say there may well be true - the issue, and where Porsche/Michelin really dropped the ball, is that they refused to publish/confirm the functional differences. I don't know where you get your data from, but it's not confirmed by either party - quoting 'proprietary' reasons as to why they will not list. If they had done so, and treated us like grown-ups, then many more owners may well have bought the tyres. 100% agree.

isaldiri said: deutsche.diagnostics said: All sizes get revised at the same time, so mixing N3 and N4 is fine if N3 was the latest version. All sizes get revised at the same time? How does that happen? Say you have a front tyre of whatever say 225/40/18 and a rear of 265/35/18 that was a full N0 or full N1 set as OEM tyres at one point in time. If all sizes are revised at the same time, you shouldn't have a N3 front and N4 rear as a result. And in theory one should as far as possible try to match N numbers in that case. Well unless at inception on model release the car came with a mismatch in N1 numbers like N0 front and N1 rear....... Sorry, that was not very clear. You're right of course. What I meant was, where as the standard sizes might have been 225.40.18 and 265.35.18 at launch, Porsche then changed to 285.30.18 on the later cars, some 4 years after the launch, hence if you want to put on a 285.30.18 today, you might find that the fronts are N4 and the rears N3. Does that make sense? I always presumed that the N3 and N4 meant it was a different construction, but it seems even that is not clear cut.

I went for Bridgestone Potenza Sport in the end Thanks you all for your feedback Eddie

Too bad. I think you'd find a regular PS4 a much nicer tyre.

steady eddie said: I went for Bridgestone Potenza Sport in the end Thanks you all for your feedback Eddie Jon likes them https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Tyre-Revi...

steady eddie said: I went for Bridgestone Potenza Sport in the end Thanks you all for your feedback Eddie I look forward to your feedback on them. This was one I was considering, it is meant to have incredible steering feel and turn in. A bit noisier than the Michelins, but much sportier tyre.

Orangecurry said: Jon likes them https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Tyre-Revi... Of course the big problem with basing decisions on published tyre reviews is that they are reviewing the generic / non OEM version of the tyres. The performance of the OEM versions may be considerably different. So the tyre reviews conclusions, although interesting are hardly definitive.

Wollemi said: Of course the big problem with basing decisions on published tyre reviews is that they are reviewing the generic / non OEM version of the tyres. The performance of the OEM versions may be considerably different. So the tyre reviews conclusions, although interesting are hardly definitive. As above, if Porsche would pay for an impartial test on a 986/993/996/987/997 of 1990s PS2 with up-to-date compounds, against GY AS6, Bridgestone, MPS4/4S Conti SC7 PC6 etc etc etc, then we'd all know. It's not going to happen, so my money goes where I can see some factual information. YMMV.

Am I the only one who finds Michelin tyres to age very badly if the car doesn't get much use? As in, go rock hard, and skate about like they're made of plastic, and once at that stage, are unable to recover with use and heat in them. I use Goodyear Assymetrics on mine, they're N rated as it happens, not that I care, and they seem to do everything asked of them without losing grip with age. I've been very impressed with them, £200 a set less than Michelins for 19", and have allowed me to trust the car more now than in the previous six years of ownership.

GY F1 A2 split all the way around the inside of both the fronts on my 981. Spotted at MOT failure. GY refunded pro rata after inspection. Original Pirelli PZero N0 had split in tread and sidewall on my 981. Pirelli refunded in full after inspection. Bridestone Potenza on my BMW E46 330ci sent the car all over the place! Fixed by simply replacing with Conti Sports. Running out of options for the 981 I went for PS4S. No problems so far. Firmer ride than the Goodyears but better than the rock hard Pirellis.

Currently eyeballing tyres for 2011 Boxster S and noticing a lack of options for all N rated tyres for my particular model A few options for front and a few for rear but genuinely concerned that I won't be able to have all 4 "collars and cuffs" in the next few years. Moving to a modern non N rated tyre seems a sensible option and with that in mind why not go for something a little cheaper like a Yokohama who I believe are now original equipment on newer Boxster.

Orangecurry said: Wollemi said: Of course the big problem with basing decisions on published tyre reviews is that they are reviewing the generic / non OEM version of the tyres. The performance of the OEM versions may be considerably different. So the tyre reviews conclusions, although interesting are hardly definitive. As above, if Porsche would pay for an impartial test on a 986/993/996/987/997 of 1990s PS2 with up-to-date compounds, against GY AS6, Bridgestone, MPS4/4S Conti SC7 PC6 etc etc etc, then we'd all know. It's not going to happen, so my money goes where I can see some factual information. YMMV. My thoughts entirely. I posted a while back about how favourably Jon at Tyre Reviews reported the Pirelli PZ4s performed against the PS4S. Yet it just got boshed off by most of the parrots on here, without any factual information of course, that they weren't Porsche stamped therefore the review was not relevant. And you should all buy PS4S instead. The PS4S is an objectively great tyre, but there are many other tyres that match it or even better it in various important metrics. In this section, you're just fighting against a sentiment-backed echo chamber.

steady eddie said: I went for Bridgestone Potenza Sport in the end Thanks you all for your feedback Eddie Have you had the new Potenza Sports fitted yet? Any feedback? As the weather warms up I want to swap out the PS4s, but won't put Cup 2s on again as they can get a bit lairy when it rains, which it seems to be doing more and more these days, and even they don't have the steering feel of some others, which I really miss.

I just had the michelins taken off mine. 6 years old, minimal use and went solid like plastic. I opted for yokohama advan v107.

deutsche.diagnostics said: Have you had the new Potenza Sports fitted yet? Any feedback? As the weather warms up I want to swap out the PS4s, but won't put Cup 2s on again as they can get a bit lairy when it rains, which it seems to be doing more and more these days, and even they don't have the steering feel of some others, which I really miss. I have Potenza Sports fitted to my 07 Cayman S, fantastic feel and sharp turn in but noisy and you feel road imperfections, not a comfort tyre! Driven it in the wet including some heavy downpours and VERY impressed with its grip, particularly when warm (takes a few miles to get heat in them). Perfect tyre for what I use the car for, spirited weekend driving and occasional commuting. I used to use Michelin PS2 and even tried Yokohama's when I it was the daily driver. Very happy with these tyres though

acricha3 said: I have Potenza Sports fitted to my 07 Cayman S, fantastic feel and sharp turn in but noisy and you feel road imperfections, not a comfort tyre! Thanks. I think I might give them a whirl. The spongy steering feel from the Michelins are OK in winter, but I really miss the sharp turn in of the S02A. It is almost like I would like the comfort and lack of road noise of the Michelins on the rear and the sharp turn in and precise steering feel of the Bridgestones on the front. Haha

sc0tt said: I just had the michelins taken off mine. 6 years old, minimal use and went solid like plastic. I opted for yokohama advan v107. Welcome to my world. I think Michelins are over rated crap frankly. I'm on Goodyears now and have a much better behaved car. Mine doesn't really get enough use, the Goodyears aren't bothered about this.

If it hasn't already been said, I believe that the Porsche extended warranty is now up to 15 years and 125,000 miles. The old PS2 wasn't a great tyre on the Carrera GT and only for that car Porsche created an N rated Pilot Supersport (PSS), which was much better and solved traction issues for many. Rather confusingly Michelin have run the PSS side by side with the PS4S with the PSCup2 as their dry trackday tyre and then confused this with the Cup2 Contact which appeared to be better in the wet than the non-Contact derivative (now discontinued!). Maybe the new PSS5 ? is to replace both the PSS and the PS4S ... there was of course also a PS4 ! I've generally stuck to the Porsche recommended tyres but with older cars it is impossible ... the choice for 16" wheels is becoming very limited. Pirelli P Zero Rosso ? Toyo R888R fro track ? Avon have ceased manufacture ... Longstone tyres (plus others) specialise in the classic tyres for more options. Having a long held trust of Michelin (I am not a tyre tester) I am often surprised that they are often middle runners in Evo and other mag comparative tyre tests ... My personal view is the one thing to avoid at all costs is using old tyres that may appear to be almost unused ... any main stream modern tyre is better than these. Interestingly I believe that MOT stations are not allowed to advise on old tyres unless the cords can be seen ... and they aren't supposed to probe visible cracking ... See below .. worth checking ....

Heaveho said: sc0tt said: I just had the michelins taken off mine. 6 years old, minimal use and went solid like plastic. I opted for yokohama advan v107. Welcome to my world. I think Michelins are over rated crap frankly. I'm on Goodyears now and have a much better behaved car. Mine doesn't really get enough use, the Goodyears aren't bothered about this. What I don't get is people praising the Michelins wear rate, saying they get serious mileage out of them. But then end up with a tyre that has been on the car for 5 years with half the tread or more left. At 5 years old they really need replacing just because they are starting to age and harden. On cars like these I would rather have something that doesn't wear as well but gives you a much shaper, far more fun driving experience. If they only last 4 or even 3 years, so what? Compared with owning and running these cars, spending an average of £200-250 a year on tyres is nothing. I think for the every day cars, for the fast hatch that you use as your main car or the family estate Michelins are great. But I do think they are pretty boring on cars like Porsches. I think we all get caught up in the hype, and I include myself in that. There are certainly tyres out there that make the car feel much more sporty, the Michelins numb the steering far too much.

ChrisW. said: If it hasn't already been said, I believe that the Porsche extended warranty is now up to 15 years and 125,000 miles. The old PS2 wasn't a great tyre on the Carrera GT and only for that car Porsche created an N rated Pilot Supersport (PSS), which was much better and solved traction issues for many. Rather confusingly Michelin have run the PSS side by side with the PS4S with the PSCup2 as their dry trackday tyre and then confused this with the Cup2 Contact which appeared to be better in the wet than the non-Contact derivative (now discontinued!). Maybe the new PSS5 ? is to replace both the PSS and the PS4S ... there was of course also a PS4 ! I've generally stuck to the Porsche recommended tyres but with older cars it is impossible ... the choice for 16" wheels is becoming very limited. Pirelli P Zero Rosso ? Toyo R888R fro track ? Avon have ceased manufacture ... Longstone tyres (plus others) specialise in the classic tyres for more options. Having a long held trust of Michelin (I am not a tyre tester) I am often surprised that they are often middle runners in Evo and other mag comparative tyre tests ... My personal view is the one thing to avoid at all costs is using old tyres that may appear to be almost unused ... any main stream modern tyre is better than these. Interestingly I believe that MOT stations are not allowed to advise on old tyres unless the cords can be seen ... and they aren't supposed to probe visible cracking ... See below .. worth checking .... Ordered new set of Yokohama A008p in 16", will be interesting to see what they are like. I ordered last week as Black Circles had a deal on, they're for the new Fuchs that I ordered, when they finally turn up