So, now that the GT4 specs are finally known.... - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

....and 1) Nordschleife times are essentially the same as the the 997.1 GT3 2) Power is "at least" 385hp so power to weight ratios are almost identical 3) 997.1 GT3 prices are going to be roughly comparable with new GT4 prices ...which would you have given the choice? A 997.1 GT3 or a Cayman GT4? I don't have any LOI for a GT4 or anything, but in my head hypothetically, I think once I got over the "ooo new and shiny" moment of a GT4, I'd want to go back to my GT3 for 2 simnple reasons: - rear-engined so more unusual in today's world where all other supercars etc which are mid- or front-engined - a screaming 3.6 rather then a fairly generic 3.8 In the words of the Monkey: tell me I'm wrong.

This is exactly my situation and ivbe no clue! LOI with 3k deposit is in with OPC although I suspect I wont get one of the 1st calls having not bought new from them before. Doesn't help that my 997 GT3 is a real good one. The idea of new car with 3yr Warranty appeals but as you say this may wear off after a short time especially is it loses me cash and then I start wanting the gt3 back. Decisions decisions

Reading the PH front page news, the same thought went through my head. I'd really want to drive the GT4 before making a decision.

GT3 or manual F430 Coupe pls. Love the GT4 but at £80k specced with all the right bits very pricey indeed especially when you think a base Cayman is close to £40k.

Cayman GT4 = Meh! 997 GT3 = Mezger!

If I had a 997.1 GT3 I'd stick with it, I think. Some one already said it - thoroughbred 3.6, Motorsport direct decendant. From a value PoV, GT3 is golden already. Its The Daddy.

The GT4 looks fantastic, will drive well I'm sure and will be a huge success, "BUT" The idea that you pay £75-£80k and get a de-tuned 991 Carrera S engine just annoys me too much. Why not just fit the standard 400ps Carrera S lump or better yet the 430ps power kitted engine, why go to the trouble of making something less than it already is? One of the things i love about my 997.1 GT3 is that the 415ps 3.6 Mezger lump is as good as it could possibly be, they couldn't improve on it for the 997.1RS so fitted exactly the same engine, when they needed an upgrade for the 997.2 they had to up the displacement to 3.8 to get that bit extra.

pete a said: The GT4 looks fantastic, will drive well I'm sure and will be a huge success, "BUT" The idea that you pay £75-£80k and get a de-tuned 991 Carrera S engine just annoys me too much. Why not just fit the standard 400ps Carrera S lump or better yet the 430ps power kitted engine, why go to the trouble of making something less than it already is? One of the things i love about my 997.1 GT3 is that the 415ps 3.6 Mezger lump is as good as it could possibly be, they couldn't improve on it for the 997.1RS so fitted exactly the same engine, when they needed an upgrade for the 997.2 they had to up the displacement to 3.8 to get that bit extra. GT4 would be way too fast with 430bhp for the spec sheet :-(

TDT said: If I had a 997.1 GT3 I'd stick with it, I think. Some one already said it - thoroughbred 3.6, Motorsport direct decendant. From a value PoV, GT3 is golden already. Its The Daddy. TDT that's my current leaning tks. Maybe see how the 1st batch are received. cheers all

both are two polished and disconnected .... 996 GT3 for life

jackal said: both are two polished and disconnected .... 996 GT3 for life I wouldn't say the 997.1 GT3 is too polished and disconnected, but saying that I have never driven a 996 GT3! My 997.1 GT3 is a sweet little machine, love it and will keep it for as long as I can!

Where is the "I'm poor, I'll take a used Cayman R" option? Reading the press release I would have said GT4, simply for the novelty value of an unleashed Cayman that ticks with all the right boxes: N/A flat six with >400 actual bhp perfect chassis with GT3 genes reasonable price zero depreciation However the EVO video with Preuninger confirmed my suspicions that this will NOT be a one-off unique unicorn RS 4.0 type of deal that will never happen again. Heck even the RS 4.0 is about to take a hit from the manual 991 GT4 RS (4.0?). He made it quite clear that if the Cayman GT4 is a success there will be another one, possibly even other variants, which could be seen as a hint at a GT4-RS. He also made clear that N/A engines and manual boxes will be around for as long as there is demand for them.* That's a big question mark next to "zero depreciation" then. The supposed reasonable price gets quite punchy once you option all the right bits. Buckets, Clubsport, PCM, Alcantara with stitching and other things all add up to 80-85k easily. In my opinion these are a must or the car makes no sense. Porsche obviously knows this. I'm gambling on a used GT4 in ~4-5 years time and a bargain Cayman R or Spyder in the meantime. Both of these are lighter and smaller than the new car and — if ride height and spring weight are any indication — maybe even more usable in real life. The hydraulic steering rack is an added perk, as good as the electric GT3/GT4 one may be, it may not quite "there" yet. Admittedly if I had the money on the side I'd probably splurge it on a GT4 right now but I'm not willing to sell off other cars in order to buy a car with a relatively real risk of depreciation. That's what I keep telling myself... he also stated that Co2 for the GT engines is not such a big deal in the big picture. Thank you, future base 981.2 turbo flat-4 PDK drivers, for making these hardcore GT cars possible in the future. Edited by EricE on Wednesday 4th February 10:33

pete a said: The GT4 looks fantastic, will drive well I'm sure and will be a huge success, "BUT" The idea that you pay £75-£80k and get a de-tuned 991 Carrera S engine just annoys me too much. Why not just fit the standard 400ps Carrera S lump or better yet the 430ps power kitted engine, why go to the trouble of making something less than it already is? One of the things i love about my 997.1 GT3 is that the 415ps 3.6 Mezger lump is as good as it could possibly be, they couldn't improve on it for the 997.1RS so fitted exactly the same engine, when they needed an upgrade for the 997.2 they had to up the displacement to 3.8 to get that bit extra. I'd agree with this. It's probably not entirely rational and doesn't affect how well the car drives but it's hard to get past the idea the gt4 isn't the best it could be even given the price differential. Which is probably the opposite of what the 7.1 gt3 is/was.

For me this is a mind-set thing. Do you care more about trend setting and being seen as having the latest gadget... There really is no comparison with the Metzger engine so it is pointless to even consider them is the same sentence. Purely the price point is enabling the comparison of the two. Nobody is wrong is whatever of the 2 options they go for; this is an emotive choice of what best suits the individual needs of the purchaser. The cars are miles apart in most respects. Good to see the manual sticking around and hopefully an indication of the future ethos for the more trick Porsche models. I'll stick with my old Metzger

7.1 GT3 and GT4 is a false comparison, one is at least 7 years old, the other not even built.

SFO said: 7.1 GT3 and GT4 is a false comparison, one is at least 7 years old, the other not even built. not for people with £75k to spend tomorrow though the 997.2 GT3 is the biggest draw though, but none for sale

Voted GT4 but I'll be keeping the 997 RS to keep its young brother company

pete a said: The GT4 looks fantastic, will drive well I'm sure and will be a huge success, "BUT" The idea that you pay £75-£80k and get a de-tuned 991 Carrera S engine just annoys me too much. Why not just fit the standard 400ps Carrera S lump or better yet the 430ps power kitted engine, why go to the trouble of making something less than it already is? One of the things i love about my 997.1 GT3 is that the 415ps 3.6 Mezger lump is as good as it could possibly be, they couldn't improve on it for the 997.1RS so fitted exactly the same engine, when they needed an upgrade for the 997.2 they had to up the displacement to 3.8 to get that bit extra. ^This. Some proper mentalists on PH Spunk £80-85k on a chavved up Cayman with a chocolate 911 engine stuffed up it's chuff along with some further parts bin engineering courtesy of a few choice 991 GT3 bits. Or : http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... Hmmm, proper engine, some real Motorpsort lineage etc etc. A Gen 2 435hp 3.8 litre 997 GT3 it is then .......

So much more potetial in the 997 Gen 1. The engine alone would make it a no brainer or me

Steve Rance said: So much more potetial in the 997 Gen 1. The engine alone would make it a no brainer or me Do you engine potential, or general potential in the car?

Steve Rance said: So much more potetial in the 997 Gen 1. The engine alone would make it a no brainer or me 997.2 RS with sharkwerks 4.1 :-) would be my ideal how does a gen 1 have more potential then the gen 2, or you you mean more potential than a GT4 The issue I have with the GT3 and it's well know I dislike this issue is the low down torque you are left with on UK B roads at 90 mph as its ni on impossible to rev the thing out in 3rd gear to enjoy the car. the GT4 has more torque and 1000 rpm lower than the 997 GT3 ? ie 310 lb/ft at 4700rpm vs 299lb/ft at 5500rpm now while on track the GT3 sings, on B roads it's a pain in the arse to drive just because of that single issue. while the GT4 will still do 86 mph in 2nd :-( at least when you pop in into 3rd you should have some shove there at 5k revs While I loved owning my GT3 I never enjoyed driving it because of that single reason, I have no idea why other people don't have the issue !!! The GT4 could also be annoying on B roads, but who knows till June/July ?

Mario149 said: Steve Rance said: So much more potetial in the 997 Gen 1. The engine alone would make it a no brainer or me Do you engine potential, or general potential in the car? Both, I'd say. I know they are US based but you can see what SharkWerks do with the the 997 engines - would be awesome to bring that kind of knowledge back home! - how about it, Alex! From a chassis perspective you can do what Steve is looking to do and take it to almost cup level for the road. Edited by TDT on Wednesday 4th February 12:01

PorscheGT4 said: Steve Rance said: So much more potetial in the 997 Gen 1. The engine alone would make it a no brainer or me 997.2 RS with sharkwerks 4.1 :-) would be my ideal how does a gen 1 have more potential then the gen 2, or you you mean more potential than a GT4 The issue I have with the GT3 and it's well know I dislike this issue is the low down torque you are left with on UK B roads at 90 mph as its ni on impossible to rev the thing out in 3rd gear to enjoy the car. the GT4 has more torque and 1000 rpm lower than the 997 GT3 ? ie 310 lb/ft at 4700rpm vs 299lb/ft at 5500rpm now while on track the GT3 sings, on B roads it's a pain in the arse to drive just because of that single issue. while the GT4 will still do 86 mph in 2nd :-( at least when you pop in into 3rd you should have some shove there at 5k revs While I loved owning my GT3 I never enjoyed driving it because of that single reason, I have no idea why other people don't have the issue !!! The GT4 could also be annoying on B roads, but who knows till June/July ? 997.1 torque & long gearing issues are easily fixed by a cup final drive which is about a 7% reduction, so your bum will feel like you've gained an extra 30bhp / 21lbft. If it was a £1k change rather then a £3k change to make, I'd be all over it. As it is, since you can't rag the car properly on the road anyway, I'll leave as is for the moment as the gearing works fine on track where I intend to continue taking the car a lot. As an aside, GTS manual gearing is unforgivably long in my book for the B/C GTSs, which is one of the main reasons why I'm going PDK for my BGTS

Mario149 said: Do you engine potential, or general potential in the car? The engine in the GT3 is probably one of the best engines that ever found it's way into a road registered road car. I believe it costs over £30K to replace. The chassis is derived from the 997 cup car and the 997 Cup car is a fast as the 991 cup car. Ergo as the 991 GT3 road car is quicker than the 997 GT3, the 997 road car has a lot more potential to be unlocked - which you can quite easily by fitting different dampers. You can take the 997 Gt3 all the way to propper GT racing spec without changing any of the running gear. I cannot think of any other water cooled car that you can do that to other thn a 996 Gt3. I have a 997Gt3 gen 1 clubsport and there is absolutely no way that I would even consider selling it or swapping it for the GT4. Dont get me wrong, the GT4 looks a nice car but a GT3 it is not. It's unfair to the GT4 to make the comparison. Edited by Steve Rance on Wednesday 4th February 12:48

pete a said: The GT4 looks fantastic, will drive well I'm sure and will be a huge success, "BUT" The idea that you pay £75-£80k and get a de-tuned 991 Carrera S engine just annoys me too much. Why not just fit the standard 400ps Carrera S lump or better yet the 430ps power kitted engine, why go to the trouble of making something less than it already is? One of the things i love about my 997.1 GT3 is that the 415ps 3.6 Mezger lump is as good as it could possibly be, they couldn't improve on it for the 997.1RS so fitted exactly the same engine, when they needed an upgrade for the 997.2 they had to up the displacement to 3.8 to get that bit extra. Not sure you would notice the 10 or so missing bhp from the carrera S ,(if it is missing them ..see the evo interview) ,so think more along the lines of you are getting a better car than a carrera s,with the same engine for £25k less .The lack of a proper Motorsport department engine is the only negative though for me.

Steve Rance said: The engine in the GT3 is probably one of the best engines that ever found it's way into a road registered road car. I believe it costs over £30K to replace. The chassis is derived from the 997 cup car and the 997 Cup car is a fast as the 991 cup car. Ergo as the 991 GT3 road car is quicker than the 997 GT3, the 997 road car has a lot more potential to be unlocked - which you can quite easily by fitting different dampers. You can take the 997 Gt3 all the way to propper GT racing spec without changing any of the running gear. I cannot think of any other water cooled car that you can do that to other thn a 996 Gt3. I have a 997Gt3 gen 1 clubsport and there is absolutely no way that I would even consider selling it or swapping it for the GT4. Interesting! Steve Rance said: Dont get me wrong, the GT4 looks a nice car but a GT3 it is not. It's unfair to the GT4 to make the comparison. The phrase "knife to a gunfight" springs to mind

Mario149 said: The phrase "knife to a gunfight" springs to mind not if the GT4 posts a sub 7.40 ring time

PorscheGT4 said: Mario149 said: The phrase "knife to a gunfight" springs to mind not if the GT4 posts a sub 7.40 ring time The phrase I used was in terms of what you can do to a boggo 7.1 GT3 to take it further without touching the engine (which seems unsurpassed in quality) as per Steve's post, not about ring times.

PorscheGT4 said: not if the GT4 posts a sub 7.40 ring time Did you not read my post?

Will the Gt4 to GT3 become what the M135i is to the M3? That is, a GT 'lite'. And, and this is very important, will the GT4 be allowed in the GT section of the Porsche forum.....

CheesyFootballs said: And, and this is very important, will the GT4 be allowed in the GT section of the Porsche forum..... We have a GT section?!

Mario149 said: CheesyFootballs said: And, and this is very important, will the GT4 be allowed in the GT section of the Porsche forum..... We have a GT section?! Ah, no. My eyes were deceiving me - it's a Carrera GT section! As you were..

I think the GT4 looks great from what I've read; I never found the relatively long gearing on the GT3 (996) an issue on the road - just use three gears .... The only person I knew who went for the shorter gearing actually went back to stock I think it's a shame they ditched the Mezger engine, but totally understand the reasons why (cost) but, who knows - the new GTx engines might turn out rather good in the long run. the Mezger wasn't without it faults.... GT4 fills a different niche for me - 50/50 track to road, whereas the GT3 was always 90/10 track to road or maybe that was just me

CheesyFootballs said: Will the Gt4 to GT3 become what the M135i is to the M3? hmmm - I think more like M2 to the M3/4 although the M3/4 used to be in the same 'class' as the GT3 - E46/996 Generation. The GT3 has moved up. The M3/4 in current guises are straight road cars - so unless there is a GTS/CSL variant do not line up at all. The M2 if there is a GTS/CSL variant will line up with the GT4 although the GT4 will be more expensive and the better driving tool. As AP says - no real competition - only challenge to my mind is the Lotus Exige V6 S/Cup/Cup R

red997 said: I think the GT4 looks great from what I've read; I never found the relatively long gearing on the GT3 (996) an issue on the road - just use three gears .... But you only really get to use 2 & 3/4 gears. IMO, in a sportcars meant to be driven on the road as well as track, you should be able to rev out the car in the first 3 gears without losing your licence instantly in extremis i.e. over 100mph. In a GT4 (and 997.1 GT3) you cannot. I had both my 993 and GT3 on track on Sunday. In terms of enjoyment purely considering the gear change, I would say I had more fun swapping cogs in the 993 at Brands than I did in the GT3 as there was more of it. Sure the GT3 change is sweeter, but in the 993 I could get 4th on the way up to Druids if I nailed Paddock (GT3 I could keep 3rd), I could snatch 3rd between Druids and Graham Hill (stayed in 2nd in the GT3) and could squeeze into 5th on Brabham straight if I nailed Clarke (only 4th in the GT3). red997 said: GT4 fills a different niche for me - 50/50 track to road, whereas the GT3 was always 90/10 track to road or maybe that was just me If the GT4 is 50/50 track road then it should *definitgely* have shorter gearing

red997 said: I think the GT4 looks great from what I've read; I never found the relatively long gearing on the GT3 (996) an issue on the road - just use three gears .... The only person I knew who went for the shorter gearing actually went back to stock I think it's a shame they ditched the Mezger engine, but totally understand the reasons why (cost) but, who knows - the new GTx engines might turn out rather good in the long run. the Mezger wasn't without it faults.... GT4 fills a different niche for me - 50/50 track to road, whereas the GT3 was always 90/10 track to road or maybe that was just me Exactly ,everyone has different needs ,those complaining about it are doing so because it doesn't fit their particular niche ,fair enough ,just don't bloody try to piss on the chips of those who do like the car,which really seems to a trait exhibited uniquely on ph porsche forums. I'm pretty confident it will be Porsches best car bar the 991gt3 . Vs a 997gt3 ,who cares ? Wonderful on track ,but to use every day on the road ,you've got to be a bit mental tbh.

franki68 said: Vs a 997gt3 ,who cares ? Wonderful on track ,but to use every day on the road ,you've got to be a bit mental tbh. You are aware that the GT4 has -30mm ride height, a splitter and no front axle lift...?

swimd said: You are aware that the GT4 has -30mm ride height, a splitter and no front axle lift...? ive had or driven many stupid cars ,and that's never been an issue for me,was the same with the gt3 ,that wasn't the issue .

ditto my gt3 had an affair with the road - it must have cos the splitter was always kissing it Consumables

£5000 deposit paid today. Gt4 here we come.

Configurator now on line on Porsche site.

pete a said: The GT4 looks fantastic, will drive well I'm sure and will be a huge success, "BUT" The idea that you pay £75-£80k and get a de-tuned 991 Carrera S engine just annoys me too much. Why not just fit the standard 400ps Carrera S lump or better yet the 430ps power kitted engine, why go to the trouble of making something less than it already is? One of the things i love about my 997.1 GT3 is that the 415ps 3.6 Mezger lump is as good as it could possibly be, they couldn't improve on it for the 997.1RS so fitted exactly the same engine, when they needed an upgrade for the 997.2 they had to up the displacement to 3.8 to get that bit extra. Remember the intake system and the crankcase is different so it could fit in the engine bay so just maybe that dictates the state of tune. Although the true reason is probably just because of the 911!

CheesyFootballs said: Will the Gt4 to GT3 become what the M135i is to the M3? That is, a GT 'lite'. And, and this is very important, will the GT4 be allowed in the GT section of the Porsche forum..... Not at 75k, no. The M135i was a relative bargain

As they don't put the mezger in cars now, it's probably as good as we could get. I think going by today's prices it's reasonable. My dealer had a gts for 70k. Two different markets, but compared to a basic 991 it's a bargain. Elsewhere on the forum someone said it was expensive for a cayman. I don't get that. It's basically a" mid engined 911" imo. What's the name got to do with it?

I'm really struggling with this. On the one hand, I know that I should really love the way this thing drives and I'm OK with the power output. But I'd have liked a more high revving engine. I still think it's possible that a modded CR is a better option for me. I'll sleep on it and see how I feel in the morning. Also what the hell did they do to the engine? It's around 20g/km worse than a C2S and is supposedly de-tuned version of the same engine - bizarre!

J-P said: I'm really struggling with this. On the one hand, I know that I should really love the way this thing drives and I'm OK with the power output. But I'd have liked a more high revving engine. I still think it's possible that a modded CR is a better option for me. I'll sleep on it and see how I feel in the morning. Also what the hell did they do to the engine? It's around 20g/km worse than a C2S and is supposedly de-tuned version of the same engine - bizarre! Not wishing to add to your first world problems jp but…a CR is 40k, you could easily throw 10k at it trying to turn it into something else, and its money which you will never get back and all for a car that now looks a bit, well, old hat. Personally i think a CR is not a good candidate for modding, better to have bought a base 3.4 for that. If i were in the same boat and could afford a GT4 i would have one in a flash, at the end of the day if you get it and changed your mind I'm sure there will be a rather long queue of people waiting to take it off your hands and maybe even for a tidy premium!

J-P said: I'm really struggling with this. On the one hand, I know that I should really love the way this thing drives and I'm OK with the power output. But I'd have liked a more high revving engine. I still think it's possible that a modded CR is a better option for me. I'll sleep on it and see how I feel in the morning. Also what the hell did they do to the engine? It's around 20g/km worse than a C2S and is supposedly de-tuned version of the same engine - bizarre! Is the C2S emissions value for the PDK? The manual in the GT4 will be less efficient. Actually, the manual in the C2S would be 7 speed so there's probably more economy there than the 6 speed GT4 manual as well

PR36 said: J-P said: I'm really struggling with this. On the one hand, I know that I should really love the way this thing drives and I'm OK with the power output. But I'd have liked a more high revving engine. I still think it's possible that a modded CR is a better option for me. I'll sleep on it and see how I feel in the morning. Also what the hell did they do to the engine? It's around 20g/km worse than a C2S and is supposedly de-tuned version of the same engine - bizarre! Not wishing to add to your first world problems jp but…a CR is 40k, you could easily throw 10k at it trying to turn it into something else, and its money which you will never get back and all for a car that now looks a bit, well, old hat. Personally i think a CR is not a good candidate for modding, better to have bought a base 3.4 for that. If i were in the same boat and could afford a GT4 i would have one in a flash, at the end of the day if you get it and changed your mind I'm sure there will be a rather long queue of people waiting to take it off your hands and maybe even for a tidy premium! True but then if I did mod, I wouldn't sell....ever. So cost is £10k...rather than £35k in my ideal spec. My car already has buckets, nav, telephone module, climate - the cost of these items and other essentials on the GT4 is pretty epic! Plus it has a hydraulic steering system, proper handbrake and can get to around 360hp without too much hassle and weighs only 1310kg.

J-P said: True but then if I did mod, I wouldn't sell....ever. So cost is £10k...rather than £35k in my ideal spec. My car already has buckets, nav, telephone module, climate - the cost of these items and other essentials on the GT4 is pretty epic! Plus it has a hydraulic steering system, proper handbrake and can get to around 360hp without too much hassle and weighs only 1310kg. if i was in your position id absolutely do as you say and make some top end mods to the CR and keep the thing.

Beedub said: J-P said: True but then if I did mod, I wouldn't sell....ever. So cost is £10k...rather than £35k in my ideal spec. My car already has buckets, nav, telephone module, climate - the cost of these items and other essentials on the GT4 is pretty epic! Plus it has a hydraulic steering system, proper handbrake and can get to around 360hp without too much hassle and weighs only 1310kg. if i was in your position id absolutely do as you say and make some top end mods to the CR and keep the thing. Yes that's my thinking. The other issue, is that I love doing track days. I can get the GT4 but then I'd not be able to do as many track days. Also I've never really modded a car and tried to make it my own, so that on its own is quite exciting.

J-P said: Yes that's my thinking. The other issue, is that I love doing track days. I can get the GT4 but then I'd not be able to do as many track days. Also I've never really modded a car and tried to make it my own, so that on its own is quite exciting. well funny thing I've got a very very highly modded z4m that I'm thinking about moving to the GT4 from, its pretty much modded to the hilt and a car that I've owned from sub 1000 miles old/ 8 years .... so your view really interests me. Its been modded to a standard that has been executed to oem level with the best of the best parts from 3 way track spec dampers, to 500+ hp and so on and so on, the supporting mod list is endless.. check it out as you may be interested in a similar type of focus for your CR http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&am... heres another relating to on track sprint performance http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&am... to give you an idea of how its performing. The allure for the GT4 is really strong but I'm really struggling with the price tag, with the bits i want/need I'm talking 80k, and some of those bits would definitely be required for the re-sale to be where id NEED it to be, i LOVE that this car has made it finally but damn...porsche have priced it alittle to far from reach from the target audience imo, if i had a spyder ( car i really should have purchased but never did, i kick ,myself daily) or a CR id really think about the spec, and mod to a very high standard with top tier parts and not look back, and IF 360hp is achievable from the 3.4.. damn.... Do it already. But be warned, it can be a slippery slope as my car painfully highlights, work to a point and make sure you STOP before you spend way to much money. Modding them setting up and honing has been one of the best motoring experiences I've had, i wouldn't change a second of it.

I decided not to deposit for a few reasons. I currently, as of last month run a 2014 Cayman 2.9. Primary purpose is daily-drive for the Mrs. Secondary is I like to track day it. I also tend to have a Supercar in the garage (history of Lambo's and Ferraris) which I fidget and change every 6-12 months. I wanted to have the GT4 tick BOTH boxes for me and try to settle on something that would stop me changing cars so frequently and still be perfect as a daily drive when needed. Unfortunately I feel it is probably a little bit too GT focused for the Mrs to use daily, yet not quite extreme enough to satisfy my higher end spot in the garage. I really wanted to buy this car to. But I think our sub £40k 981 is too good for the daily drive, and the GT4 not good enough for that special something. Confused!

Beedub said: J-P said: Yes that's my thinking. The other issue, is that I love doing track days. I can get the GT4 but then I'd not be able to do as many track days. Also I've never really modded a car and tried to make it my own, so that on its own is quite exciting. well funny thing I've got a very very highly modded z4m that I'm thinking about moving to the GT4 from, its pretty much modded to the hilt and a car that I've owned from sub 1000 miles old/ 8 years .... so your view really interests me. Its been modded to a standard that has been executed to oem level with the best of the best parts from 3 way track spec dampers, to 500+ hp and so on and so on, the supporting mod list is endless.. check it out as you may be interested in a similar type of focus for your CR http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&am... heres another relating to on track sprint performance http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&am... to give you an idea of how its performing. The allure for the GT4 is really strong but I'm really struggling with the price tag, with the bits i want/need I'm talking 80k, and some of those bits would definitely be required for the re-sale to be where id NEED it to be, i LOVE that this car has made it finally but damn...porsche have priced it alittle to far from reach from the target audience imo, if i had a spyder ( car i really should have purchased but never did, i kick ,myself daily) or a CR id really think about the spec, and mod to a very high standard with top tier parts and not look back, and IF 360hp is achievable from the 3.4.. damn.... Do it already. But be warned, it can be a slippery slope as my car painfully highlights, work to a point and make sure you STOP before you spend way to much money. Modding them setting up and honing has been one of the best motoring experiences I've had, i wouldn't change a second of it. Evening JP, I think that the GT4 at the price we mentioned when we met up, made sense to a degree, but a car specced up nicely rapidly starts to approach low miles, reasonable spec Gen 2 997 GT3. I know you said that selling a GT3, any GT3, to SWMBO would be a difficult sell, but if you were to consider a GT4, I think it would be remiss of you to not test drive a Gen 1 and 2 997 GT3, all the moreso in light of your comments on your GTS and the 4.0 RS. If you decide the GT4, and thus the 997 GT3, isn't for you, then carry on and mod the Cayman R. Just be aware that as Beedub has said, it's a very slippery slope you're standing at the top of if you decide on this option. But if you genuinely think the Cayman R is a keeper, you could do the the upgrades in phases. Seats ? harnesses, cage/harness bar. Suspension, brakes etc, then do lightweight flywheel, exhaust/decat, remap, throttle body. Then the diff etc etc. On the basis of your's, Cmoose's and my experience with the SVP Cayman, I think you'd be building something special by basing it on a CR. ust make sure you make all the mods reversible, and that you keep all the original parts you remove. As I mentioned to you previously, beware of the "journey" becoming more important than the "holiday" itself.

For those of you that dipped in to the other thread that J-P had running, you may find this graph I generated interesting... Here is a thrust curve comparison for the GT4 and the 997.1 GT3. Obviously I have no dyno numbers for a GT4 so its line was calculated using the dyno info I did have for a 991 3.8L C2S (and unfortunately with a bit more power than the GT4 is mooted to have). The GT4 line is blue, the red line is a stock 997.1 GT3 3.6L and the green line a 997.1 GT3 3.6L running a 4.00 final drive. Its a limited exercise, there is more to a car than "thrust" after all but it makes an interesting comparative nonetheless. For a wider lens, the 997.1 GT3 had a ring time of 7.42 set in 2006 with PASM. The GT4 is mooted for 7.40 using the advantages of 8-9 years worth of tyre development, PTV, chassis design and the rest of the improvements Porsche has brought to the table in that time. What is pretty clear is that these two cars will present quite different driving and ultimately ownership experiences. My instinct is that the 997 will still have more on the table in terms of performance level over the GT4 if one wished to tap into it but this will become clear when the actual details come out. This experience aspect may prove to form a rather tidy boundary between GT4 and 996/997 GT3 owners in the end. It will be interesting to see this develop over time once the dust settles. Edited by fioran0 on Thursday 5th February 01:45

Beedub said: J-P said: Yes that's my thinking. The other issue, is that I love doing track days. I can get the GT4 but then I'd not be able to do as many track days. Also I've never really modded a car and tried to make it my own, so that on its own is quite exciting. well funny thing I've got a very very highly modded z4m that I'm thinking about moving to the GT4 from, its pretty much modded to the hilt and a car that I've owned from sub 1000 miles old/ 8 years .... so your view really interests me. Its been modded to a standard that has been executed to oem level with the best of the best parts from 3 way track spec dampers, to 500+ hp and so on and so on, the supporting mod list is endless.. check it out as you may be interested in a similar type of focus for your CR http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&am... heres another relating to on track sprint performance http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&am... to give you an idea of how its performing. The allure for the GT4 is really strong but I'm really struggling with the price tag, with the bits i want/need I'm talking 80k, and some of those bits would definitely be required for the re-sale to be where id NEED it to be, i LOVE that this car has made it finally but damn...porsche have priced it alittle to far from reach from the target audience imo, if i had a spyder ( car i really should have purchased but never did, i kick ,myself daily) or a CR id really think about the spec, and mod to a very high standard with top tier parts and not look back, and IF 360hp is achievable from the 3.4.. damn.... Do it already. But be warned, it can be a slippery slope as my car painfully highlights, work to a point and make sure you STOP before you spend way to much money. Modding them setting up and honing has been one of the best motoring experiences I've had, i wouldn't change a second of it. Thanks for posting - very interesting

Slippydiff said: Beedub said: J-P said: Yes that's my thinking. The other issue, is that I love doing track days. I can get the GT4 but then I'd not be able to do as many track days. Also I've never really modded a car and tried to make it my own, so that on its own is quite exciting. well funny thing I've got a very very highly modded z4m that I'm thinking about moving to the GT4 from, its pretty much modded to the hilt and a car that I've owned from sub 1000 miles old/ 8 years .... so your view really interests me. Its been modded to a standard that has been executed to oem level with the best of the best parts from 3 way track spec dampers, to 500+ hp and so on and so on, the supporting mod list is endless.. check it out as you may be interested in a similar type of focus for your CR http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&am... heres another relating to on track sprint performance http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&am... to give you an idea of how its performing. The allure for the GT4 is really strong but I'm really struggling with the price tag, with the bits i want/need I'm talking 80k, and some of those bits would definitely be required for the re-sale to be where id NEED it to be, i LOVE that this car has made it finally but damn...porsche have priced it alittle to far from reach from the target audience imo, if i had a spyder ( car i really should have purchased but never did, i kick ,myself daily) or a CR id really think about the spec, and mod to a very high standard with top tier parts and not look back, and IF 360hp is achievable from the 3.4.. damn.... Do it already. But be warned, it can be a slippery slope as my car painfully highlights, work to a point and make sure you STOP before you spend way to much money. Modding them setting up and honing has been one of the best motoring experiences I've had, i wouldn't change a second of it. Evening JP, I think that the GT4 at the price we mentioned when we met up, made sense to a degree, but a car specced up nicely rapidly starts to approach low miles, reasonable spec Gen 2 997 GT3. I know you said that selling a GT3, any GT3, to SWMBO would be a difficult sell, but if you were to consider a GT4, I think it would be remiss of you to not test drive a Gen 1 and 2 997 GT3, all the moreso in light of your comments on your GTS and the 4.0 RS. If you decide the GT4, and thus the 997 GT3, isn't for you, then carry on and mod the Cayman R. Just be aware that as Beedub has said, it's a very slippery slope you're standing at the top of if you decide on this option. But if you genuinely think the Cayman R is a keeper, you could do the the upgrades in phases. Seats ? harnesses, cage/harness bar. Suspension, brakes etc, then do lightweight flywheel, exhaust/decat, remap, throttle body. Then the diff etc etc. On the basis of your's, Cmoose's and my experience with the SVP Cayman, I think you'd be building something special by basing it on a CR. ust make sure you make all the mods reversible, and that you keep all the original parts you remove. As I mentioned to you previously, beware of the "journey" becoming more important than the "holiday" itself. Hi Slippy - 997GT3 would be amazing but Mrs would never get it. I'd have more chance of convincing her of 991GTS to be honest. Modded CR would be feel first, power / looks next. So GT3 MC, Cup Cables and Suspension upgrade - then remap, exhaust (Capristo), intake, air filter and LWFW. Then finally go for paint perfection with KDS and superforgiata OZ wheels with Pilot Sport Cup 2. That's current thinking - nothing too OTT, all reversible and car will look pretty much stock but should be genuinely special, have way more feel and be able to be set-up for anybody to enjoy it. Will keep all original parts.

J-P any pics of how your car currently stands at the moment?? this is a very interesting thread BTW... I'm watching it closely with a real conundrum on my mind. I spec'd the car id want and its reached 81k nothing at all out-landish.

J-P said: Also what the hell did they do to the engine? It's around 20g/km worse than a C2S and is supposedly de-tuned version of the same engine - bizarre! I wonder if it is a clue that they shortened the gearing?

Beedub said: J-P any pics of how your car currently stands at the moment?? this is a very interesting thread BTW... I'm watching it closely with a real conundrum on my mind. I spec'd the car id want and its reached 81k nothing at all out-landish. This is mine... I managed to get spec to £73k when I did GT4 build on the configurator but it didn't have everything I'd want.

braddo said: J-P said: Also what the hell did they do to the engine? It's around 20g/km worse than a C2S and is supposedly de-tuned version of the same engine - bizarre! I wonder if it is a clue that they shortened the gearing? 7 speed versus 6 speed.

NewExigeS said: Thanks for providing this data, very interesting. How did you get it btw? You can match the dyno charts, in gear speed curves and gear ratios from the Porsche car handbooks i.e. choose the speed you're considering, match it to a gear on the in gear chart, look up the gear ratios to find find the rpm, use the rpm to get the torque, use the gear ratios to get a multiplier for the torque to get thrust. then plot the thrust (force accelerating the car) against speed. Then repeat many times for different speeds (say every 5 mph) on a spreadsheet. If you're comparing different cars you can bring their weights (masses technically) into it to account for any differences in how much they weigh e.g. for a given thrust, a car weighing 10% more will accelerate 10% less since Acceleration = Force / Mass At least that's how I'd do it!

franki68 said: So looking at that , the gt4 will accelerate in a similar manner to the 997gt3.1 ? More than adequate for my use Yeah, it looks like they should be pretty close in straight line performance. The expected ring time of 7.40 given by AP for the GT4 versus 7.42 for the 997.1 GT3 back in 2006 is really quite interesting in that light. I am looking forward to seeing what it officially posts there, though admittedly because I am a nerd. My curiousity regarding what new cars (in general) are really bringing to the table has been itching at heightened levels since the Jack Olsen video of his car and the 991 GT3 around Willow Springs raised some interesting questions. The GT4 has 8 years or so worth of advancements in chassis manufacturing/materials, tyre technology, PASM development, electronics such as torque vectoring and the likes going for it over the 997.1.

I have a rather sprawling spreadsheet that I use on my Cups. I made it up to help when looking at regearing options etc over the years though it can also be useful for knocking out stuff like the above once in a while. In short it uses the known engine power curve to calculate the force available for accelerating the car across the entire rev range, for each gear, taking into account things like gear ratios, final drive, tyre size etc. It also calculates velocity across the entire rpm range for each gear given the same data. From this one can generate a graph of force versus velocity by overlaying the data for each gear. Usually I use a graph where the lines for each gear simply show as several individual lines on the one graph. It is of course possible to make the graph type posted here where the data is shown as one continuous line by just adding in a couple of extra steps. To adjust for weight, use Force = Mass x Acceleration, the known force data and the known mass of the car to calculate acceleration across the rev range. This second graph simply had the acceleration data replace the force data used earlier. Edited by fioran0 on Tuesday 10th February 00:47

fioran0 said: The GT4 has 8 years or so worth of advancements in chassis manufacturing/materials, tyre technology, PASM development, electronics such as torque vectoring and the likes going for it over the 997.1. Just shows how exceptional the 997 chassis was. I wonder what it'll post at the 'Ring on passive dampers and the latest Cup tyres. We should set a PH challenge for Steve Rance... The 996 Cup was also very capable against much more modern machinery in its class (Maserati MC, Ginetta G50, Aston GT4) and managed to trouble the gentleman drivers in the class above (Ferrari 430 Challenge cars... before they inevitably suffered a breakdown). All without electro-trickery and flappy paddles.

With a longer wheel base than a 991 GT3, shorter over hangs, dropped by 30mm, 90kg less mass to lug around, huge Cup 2 rubber, 991 GTS suspension parts and brakes, will the GT4 handle better than the 991 GT3?, and possibly all previous GT3s?

NewExigeS said: With a longer wheel base than a 991 GT3, shorter over hangs, dropped by 30mm, 90kg less mass to lug around, huge Cup 2 rubber, 991 GTS suspension parts and brakes, will the GT4 handle better than the 991 GT3?, and possibly all previous GT3s? Possibly and I hope it does! I hope it gets rave reviews and is lauded as a great drivers car with a heavy focus on feedback as opposed to the speed it can achieve. It would mean there is a NEW Porsche to want to own, and that can only be a good thing.

NewExigeS said: With a longer wheel base than a 991 GT3, shorter over hangs, dropped by 30mm, 90kg less mass to lug around, huge Cup 2 rubber, 991 GTS suspension parts and brakes, will the GT4 handle better than the 991 GT3?, and possibly all previous GT3s? The longer wheelbase of the 991 GT3 is one of the reasons that the 991Cup is no quicker than the 997Cup. Whilst a long wheelbase is more advantageous at faster circuits like the ring, it does not suit the more typical ciruit. A longer wheelbase may help a car post a decent ring time but I'll take a shorter wheel base every day because it's much easier to rotae the car.

Harris_I said: fioran0 said: The GT4 has 8 years or so worth of advancements in chassis manufacturing/materials, tyre technology, PASM development, electronics such as torque vectoring and the likes going for it over the 997.1. Just shows how exceptional the 997 chassis was. I wonder what it'll post at the 'Ring on passive dampers and the latest Cup tyres. We should set a PH challenge for Steve Rance... The 996 Cup was also very capable against much more modern machinery in its class (Maserati MC, Ginetta G50, Aston GT4) and managed to trouble the gentleman drivers in the class above (Ferrari 430 Challenge cars... before they inevitably suffered a breakdown). All without electro-trickery and flappy paddles. Proof of this? Watched Blancpain at Spa and a like-for-like 997 (GT4) against a comparable GT4 was no quicker. Ultimately, that is the point; GT3 and GT4 are meant to be equalised. Moreover, i've raced against 996s and they have been signficantly slower than 997 Cup cars. However, the 997 Cup has way more aero than the likes of a Ginetta so is an unfair comparison. In my experience a G55 is as quick as a 997 Cup but far cheaper (they are made like s**t though).

Mario149 said: NewExigeS said: Thanks for providing this data, very interesting. How did you get it btw? You can match the dyno charts, in gear speed curves and gear ratios from the Porsche car handbooks i.e. choose the speed you're considering, match it to a gear on the in gear chart, look up the gear ratios to find find the rpm, use the rpm to get the torque, use the gear ratios to get a multiplier for the torque to get thrust. then plot the thrust (force accelerating the car) against speed. Then repeat many times for different speeds (say every 5 mph) on a spreadsheet. If you're comparing different cars you can bring their weights (masses technically) into it to account for any differences in how much they weigh e.g. for a given thrust, a car weighing 10% more will accelerate 10% less since Acceleration = Force / Mass At least that's how I'd do it! Posting here as well as the other thread for reference... Here's my effort for a version of fioran0's acceleration chart. Points to note: 1) It accounts for weight of the cars as per the other graph does 2) It uses the gear ratio figures to calculate km/h per 1k rpm, referenced on speed in 2nd gear for each car at redline (6.5k in the 993, 7.8k in the GT4, 8.4k in the GT3). I do not have gearing info for the GT4, but AP seemed to say it was the same as the GTS, so I have assumed it will do the same speed speed in 2nd gear as the GTS, just at alightly higher revs as it goes to 7.8k rather than 7.4k i.e. it has a slightly shorter final drive. If it doesn't and the gearing is *exactly* the same as the GTS, it has a very negative impact on performance so this is the "best" case 3) It doesn't account for drag, but I'm working on a rough calc to include it, not sure it'll bring much to the party though 4) Acceleration on y-axis is plotted as a percentage of the max acceleration achieved in 2nd gear in the 993 NVR - I figured that 2nd gear shove is where we subconsciously "butt dyno" a car on the road so it seemed a useful normlizing figure. 5) Torque figures used in the calcs were read off factory dyno charts from the owners manuals every 500rpm on each rev range with the 250rpm intervals extrapolated as a mid value between the 2 points either side Any questions, fire away. Enjoy.... It's not beyond the realms of possibility I might find calc errors, but will update the chart if I do. If anyone has exact gearing data for the GT4 let me know and I'll update the chart if it's diff to what I used

hondansx said: Proof of this? Watched Blancpain at Spa and a like-for-like 997 (GT4) against a comparable GT4 was no quicker. Ultimately, that is the point; GT3 and GT4 are meant to be equalised. Moreover, i've raced against 996s and they have been signficantly slower than 997 Cup cars. However, the 997 Cup has way more aero than the likes of a Ginetta so is an unfair comparison. In my experience a G55 is as quick as a 997 Cup but far cheaper (they are made like s**t though). The 996 Cup is about a second slower than the 997 on average. Say just under on a short circuit and about 1.5 on a longer one. A lot of that time is entirely down to the flat shift sequential in the 997. I drove a bog standard 996 Cup in the Silverstone 24 hours in 2008 and for most of the race we were running 3rd over all leading Moslers, 996RSR's etc.. The car didnt even have a cup engine, just a standard 996 Gt3 engine taken from a road car. The Aston GT3 car made it's debuit there. We thought 'Christ this thing looks amazing, we dont have a chance' Lovely prep, looked and sounded lovely. We ended up lapping it about 20 times. Towards the end of the race, one of our drivers had an off and we lost a lot of time. Still came 7th over all. The day after, the owner of the car did a track day in the same car. It just plodded around all day - Amazing! The 997 was quicker and easier on the tyres - but more difficult to drive. The GT4 versions are horribly compromised. They ere not designed to be competitive within those regs. If they are raced in the spec and on the tyres designed for them, they are incredibly fast. I Always managed to stick a bog standard 997 Cup on pole in the GT cup against far more exotic machinery. They are small, behave well under braking and - if you know what you are doing - easy to rotate. Devistating on exit. The 991 cup is no quicker than the 997 cup. An embarresment that this year Porsche will/must undo. Probably by stickier tyres and a different gearbox/ratios. The road 991GT3 is however much quicker than the 997GT3. The difference being mainly gearbox, electrical driving aids and a Torque vectoring diff. In standard road car spec, these advantages are substantial but whist the more analogue chasis of the 997 responds immediately to tuning, the 991 will be much less inclined to as bypassing the electronic systems will take it a step backwards so any analogue tuning solutions will need to be radical from the outset if a performance gain is viable. Take the diff on the 997 for example. A few simple upgrades to the Diff will make substantial gains in performance. There are no such gains to be made with the 991 Diff. Mess with that at your peril. I've know that there was a lot more to come from a 997 GT3 since I raced the Cup version and then jumped into the raod car. The dynamic differences between the 996 GT3 and 996 Cup are much smaller. However, the 997 GT3 has all of the basic components to be incredibly fast and much closer dynamically and in terms of performance to the 997 Cup car. But this is a different story and something that should not cloud the coming of the Cayman GT4 in any way. Surely the Cayman should be applauded for it's individuality and should be judged for what it is rather than subjectively against what it isnt. A cayman can never be a 911 and a 911 can never be a Cayman. In my opinion, it is the 991 that may be the meat in the sandwich.

While not disagreeing with anything Steve is saying, it's often difficult to make meaningful statements about the genuine pace of cars in most endurance GT racing at the GT3 level 1) Because the standard of drivers is very variable - and teams are normally not allowed to run a team of professional drivers. 2) "Gentlemen" drivers generally get closer in performance to their professional team-mates if they have ABS and sequential boxes. Professional drivers generally gain much less from such aids. 3) The organisers attempt to equalise performance of the various car models either by restricting power, raising the minimum weight, by limiting grip either by restricting ride height or suspension mods allowed BUT 4) Teams sometimes sandbag in qualifying to avoid this occurring 5) Porsches are more fuel-efficient than much of the opposition (particularly Moslers), so while often not as fast outright as some of the opposition may still outpace them overall. 6) Even in the race cars may run somewhat below their ultimate pace either for reliability reasons (keeping off kerbs, limiting revs) or tyre degradation reasons. Edited by bcr5784 on Tuesday 10th February 17:38 Edited by bcr5784 on Wednesday 11th February 07:17

Just to add in some more. Its 100% not double wishbone at the rear. Its still struts all round for the GT4 as with the rest of the range. The lower control arm got beefed up as did the sway bar mounting at the back end. No mention that the rears are split design to allow more static negative camber though. Only that the front are of a split design. The diff is also the zero preload, 27/22, do nothing diff thats in the rest of the Cayman range. (Hopefully the phone to GT gears will be heating up) The gear ratios are indeed exactly as per the manual transmission in the Boxster and Cayman GTS. Porsche figures are 4.2s 0-60 mph, 4.4s 0-100 km/h, 1/4 mile 12.5s, top speed 183 mph.

bcr5784 said: While not disagreeing with anything Steve is saying, it's often difficult to make meaningful statements about the genuine pace of cars in most endurance GT racing at the GT3 level 1) Because the standard of drivers is very variable - and teams are normally not allowed to run a team of professional drivers. 2) "Gentlemen" drivers generally get closer in performance to their professional team-mates if they have ABS and sequential boxes. Professional drivers generally gain much less from such aids. 3) The organisers attempt to equalise performance of the various car models either by restricting power, raising the minimum weight, by limiting grip either by restricting ride height or suspension mods allowed BUT 4) Teams sometimes sandbag in qualifying to avoid this occurring 5) Porsches are more fuel-efficient than much of the opposition (particularly Moslers), so while often not as fast outright as some of the opposition may still outpace them overall. 6) Even in the race cars may run somewhat below their ultimate pace either for reliability reasons (keeping off kerbs, limiting revs) or tyre degradation reasons. Edited by bcr5784 on Tuesday 10th February 17:38 Edited by bcr5784 on Wednesday 11th February 07:17 Yes agreed re endurance. My experience is mainly in sprint racing which - although it is very happy to run in endurance - is what the 996 and 997 cups were designed for. Very effective in spirit as well as endurance format.

A 54l fuel tank, is this correct?

ras62 said: A 54l fuel tank, is this correct? yeah and 64l is a no cost option.

theRossatron said: ras62 said: A 54l fuel tank, is this correct? yeah and 64l is a no cost option. That's more like it. The first tick on the option list for most people but I could see a few owners being unaware and getting caught out with the smaller tank. The default option should be the larger tank imho.

ras62 said: That's more like it. The first tick on the option list for most people but I could see a few owners being unaware and getting caught out with the smaller tank. The default option should be the larger tank imho. Apparently it's default to keep the quoted weight figures down.

hondansx said: Proof of this? Watched Blancpain at Spa and a like-for-like 997 (GT4) against a comparable GT4 was no quicker. Ultimately, that is the point; GT3 and GT4 are meant to be equalised. Moreover, i've raced against 996s and they have been signficantly slower than 997 Cup cars. However, the 997 Cup has way more aero than the likes of a Ginetta so is an unfair comparison. In my experience a G55 is as quick as a 997 Cup but far cheaper (they are made like s**t though). I can't add to Steve's response other than to say my evidence is first hand and anecdotal, and therefore not scientific in any way. Also I may not have explained myself well first time: I wasn't suggesting the 996 was as quick as the 997. I was saying the basic platform was just brilliant: brilliant enough for an 8 year old car to slug it out toe to toe against brand new cars in the same class (which obviously wouldn't include the 997).

theRossatron said: Apparently it's default to keep the quoted weight figures down. Same with CR's, just fill less.

Steve Rance said: Yes agreed re endurance. My experience is mainly in sprint racing which - although it is very happy to run in endurance - is what the 996 and 997 cups were designed for.. Just to add on to what others have said, I am about 1 second slower per lap slower at somewhere like Laguna Seca in a 996 versus a 997 Cup with lap times in the order of low-mid 1.3X's. Somewhere like Lime Rock where its sub 1 minute laps I find that my lap times are very similar regardless of which I am in. At a longer track like VIR where lap times are in the high 1.5X's I find not quite 1.5 seconds difference in my times depending on what car I am in. Quite a different driving experience between the two platforms of course but thats what I find the actual pace difference to be. This seems in line with what others are doing. This is for cars in GTC class form; ie standard Cups as delivered by the factory. The balance of performance stuff is really only needed for series where there is a need to reconcile all sorts of engine and platform differences to try and keep the racing competitive. Edited by fioran0 on Thursday 12th February 17:34

Just to add up, The GT4 does have split rear control arms to add camber at the back as well as the front. The early info wasnt clear on the rear, only the front as I mentioned earlier so I wanted to follow back around on this now that the info is out that the rears are split also in case anyone cared..

fioran0 said: Just to add up, The GT4 does have split rear control arms to add camber at the back as well as the front. The early info wasnt clear on the rear, only the front as I mentioned earlier so I wanted to follow back around on this now that the info is out that the rears are split also in case anyone cared.. Where are you getting extra info from ? 1st thing I,ll do is get the car up on ramps and check out the geo set up from factory.

Yeah, absolutely. Struts all round as per all Caymans to date. I mentioned the struts in the morass earlier but the question was still open on the situation with the lower control arm at the rear. Now that I know I wanted to put it in here and close that one off.

PorscheGT4 said: Where are you getting extra info from ? 1st thing I,ll do is get the car up on ramps and check out the geo set up from factory. I got a whole bunch of tech details and info on the GT4 via the mothership at the end of the week. I'm sure most of it will be out in the wild soon if its not already. I can tell you the geo settings that will be on the car as delivered if you like, or the steering details since I know you are interested in that specifically. Edited by fioran0 on Sunday 15th February 00:49

You have mail :-)

fioran0 said: PorscheGT4 said: Where are you getting extra info from ? 1st thing I,ll do is get the car up on ramps and check out the geo set up from factory. I got a whole bunch of tech details and info on the GT4 via the mothership at the end of the week. I'm sure most of it will be out in the wild soon if its not already. I can tell you the geo settings that will be on the car as delivered if you like, or the steering details since I know you are interested in that specifically. Edited by fioran0 on Sunday 15th February 00:49 Could I also ask what the steering setup is? Thanks.

what kind of deposit are dealers asking for to hold a delivery slot for the GT4?

None. No dealer I have spoken to this week is taking any more deposits. Most dealers have said they have taken at least twice as many deposits as they expect cars.

Pole84 said: what kind of deposit are dealers asking for to hold a delivery slot for the GT4? Your about 10 days late for a deposit and probably about a year late for letting your dealer know you were interested in one ! But for the record it's £5k .

ags11 said: Could I also ask what the steering setup is? Thanks. Steering has electric power assist with variable ratio as per the current range of cars. The GT4 will have a changed steering ratio relative to the regular Cayman though. 17.06:1 varying to 13.15:1 on the GT4 versus 16.9:1 to 12.25:1 as per the GTS etc.

fioran0 said: Steering has electric power assist with variable ratio as per the current range of cars. The GT4 will have a changed steering ratio relative to the regular Cayman though. 17.06:1 varying to 13.15:1 on the GT4 versus 16.9:1 to 12.25:1 as per the GTS etc. Ta for that. Directness won't necessarily mean anymore feel then. I'm hoping maybe the software has come on a bit. It's a bit of a balancing act, by the time the steering advances enough there'll be turbo engines for concern!

Agreed. Did you see a post I made on another thread showing a graph of measured steering force at the wheel required to turn a car until grip was lost by the tyres for a hydraulic and an electric steering system? I should dig it out and post on here as it very nicely shows why the two do not feel the same.

That's ringing a bell with me, do you remember which thread it was on? I don't have the level of technical knowledge as yourself, but I appreciate seeing what the car does or doesn't do explained!

On the subject of chassis --- sorry ! 996 Cup v 997 Cup .... but no mention of the endurance racers ... the 996 and 997 GT3R's ?? Ignoring the differences in the engine department, how do the chassis compare ?

jackwood said: None. No dealer I have spoken to this week is taking any more deposits. Most dealers have said they have taken at least twice as many deposits as they expect cars. See below, a Motoring Journo is interested in taking up the story. It may help get some more cars from Germany, please join in and contact direct chaps. Thanks Hi I believe you’ve been exchanging messages with Steve Fowler. I’m looking into this for you and will talk with Porsche about the issue. As I think Steve mentioned we had a potential GT3 RS buyer get in touch just this week over a similar issue. Perhaps you could advise other Porsche buyers on your forum to contact us at [email removed] if they’d like us to look into their case of losing out, too. Regards, Joe

ChrisW. said: On the subject of chassis --- sorry ! 996 Cup v 997 Cup .... but no mention of the endurance racers ... the 996 and 997 GT3R's ?? Ignoring the differences in the engine department, how do the chassis compare ? Hi Chris. I've driven a 997 Cup S and R but not a 996 unfortunately. Initially they had a H pattern box but then went sequential just before the 997 Cup was launched so that would confuse the comparison somewhat

NewExigeS said: jackwood said: None. No dealer I have spoken to this week is taking any more deposits. Most dealers have said they have taken at least twice as many deposits as they expect cars. See below, a Motoring Journo is interested in taking up the story. It may help get some more cars from Germany, please join in and contact direct chaps. Thanks Hi I believe you’ve been exchanging messages with Steve Fowler. I’m looking into this for you and will talk with Porsche about the issue. As I think Steve mentioned we had a potential GT3 RS buyer get in touch just this week over a similar issue. Perhaps you could advise other Porsche buyers on your forum to contact us at [email removed] if they’d like us to look into their case of losing out, too. Regards, Joe Join in Chaps.

I'm out on the basis of the order process being clearly corrupt how can we be happy to leave our money with a dealer to be told, I will do 'my best' and they get bumped and still leave em the deposit and continue to hope and pleed? and Porsche do not care and treat clients with utter contempt, how can How desperate can we be? And if we are why? Thinking about buying an Evora 400, cars are about fun and sure it might lost 30k instead of 10k over 3 years but I will be treated as a client and the car will still be v good, and made in England.

dvshannow said: I'm out on the basis of the order process being clearly corrupt how can we be happy to leave our money with a dealer to be told, I will do 'my best' and they get bumped and still leave em the deposit and continue to hope and pleed? and Porsche do not care and treat clients with utter contempt, how can How desperate can we be? And if we are why? Thinking about buying an Evora 400, cars are about fun and sure it might lost 30k instead of 10k over 3 years but I will be treated as a client and the car will still be v good, and made in England. [email removed] Email this guy, you are exactly who he wants to hear from.

Steve Rance said: Hi Chris. I've driven a 997 Cup S and R but not a 996 unfortunately. Initially they had a H pattern box but then went sequential just before the 997 Cup was launched so that would confuse the comparison somewhat Thanks Steve, of course. I think they went sequential in 2004 when the 996 GT3RS was homologated ....