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YOUR RESEARCHI'm going to Dynojet the B&B Series 2 w/ Header
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dyno or dyno operator error, he needs
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He got some anomalous readings that don't jive with what anyone else has gotten so I suspect a dyno or dyno operator error, he needs to sanity check it, just takes time/money to do so.
Leading evidence: 'dyno or dyno operator error, he needs' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'dyno or dyno operator error, he needs' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Replace from the stock headers' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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This was before we had run the car enough for the computer to "re-learn" the settings so I don't know what the final results will be.
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Suggestion
I don't have a run completely stock on the local DynoJet dyno.
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It certainly gives the appearance that the Milltek+AWE combo is more efficient than the B&B combo, but without further testing I wouldn't make that a definitive statement.
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The intitial dyno test showed less than I expected but it was in the 5-6 HP range (I expected 8, don't ask me why) with cats and mufflers (Champion exhaust pipes I believe).
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dyno or dyno operator error, he needs
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Suspected cause
He got some anomalous readings that don't jive with what anyone else has gotten so I suspect a dyno or dyno operator error, he needs to sanity check it, just takes time/money to do so.
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B&B said it will take 2 weeks to build & ship but when I get it I will dyno on our dynojet 248c.
At the wheels
Stock.....................................260
Evo Intake & Revo Software.......270
Evo,Revo & Full B&B..................?
Stay Tuned.....
Hey Metalman, when you do DynoJet, see if you can get them to supply you with the actual drf data file or files on a disk. If you'll post those to the list, we can overlay the data with other modifications etc.
see, e.g. the drf files attached to the RedRocket thread at
http://www.planet-9.com/showthread.php?t=6922
I’m curious as to what local of the Country you reside in, that you’re having the pre and post dyno done? I’m here in SoCal and had a pre and post DynoJet executed on my CS for my headers & AWE cat-backs with very questionable results. Good luck.
zornet
He got some anomalous readings that don't jive with what anyone else has gotten so I suspect a dyno or dyno operator error, he needs to sanity check it, just takes time/money to do so.
Dyno info answered...
I live in Dallas but have all my cars dyno'd at Ross Motors in Ft Worth & they have been doing HIGH powered Supras for years & we ALWAYS get consistent runs w/ others who know what they are doing around the country.
Anyway the B&B came in today & the cat back has 100 cells on it & the header is nice also but just not quite as nice as the rest of the exhaust ie finish work is below that of the cat back. Anyway, all that is not important. What is important is the final dyno numbers.
PS Mantis also overnighted me their pulley so as to prevent anymore boiling over & melting of the Power Steering fluids & lines.
I will get on the dyno next week, stay tuned....
I am installing the b&b exhaust & headers/Springs/ECU etc on the 15 Dec for Mike Z (Team245) If it's OK with Mike I might also dyno the car on a dyno jet.
Neil
Done, Dyno'd and happy......for now
I Dyno'd the B&B Series 2 exhaust w/ 100 cell cats & headers on our dynojet 248c.
At the wheels
Stock.....................................260
Evo Intake & Revo Software.......270
Evo Intake, Revo Software,
Mantis Pulleys & Full B&B...........283
We are going to do some tuning w/ the Revo software & see if we can get more stay tuned again.......................
metalman,
Thanks for sharing, please feel free to post a dyno chart here or in the gallery. The 10HP gain from the EVO intake and REVO software is about what I would expect and inline with others who have an intake and ECU tuning. However, the 13HP gain from the full B&B system is a bit less than other systems (ie. Milltek or AWE) and I think less than they advertise on their website. It may be that some of the gains with the intake and ECU actually robbed what the exhaust system alone would have reported but one would hope these would work in concert. Still nice to see gains though across the board, yet another confirmation that gains can be found by swapping exhaust systems!
I have the BB system on my CS... I love the exhaust especially the way it looks... I was going to go with the headers soon but the numbers posted does't seem to justify the expense... I feel the only way to get the gains I'm really looking for is by means of a supercharger or turbocharger... So considering the expense involved, I'll hold off for a while unless I want to go through a divorce...
K-Man's dyno
I believe my 260 baseline & my 283 final numers were in line w/ the numbers that (you) K-man got on the Dynojet so I figured they were right in line. I am confident that the exhaust alone would do what they said & the software & intake only make it better, but having said that the car FEELS MUCH Stronger after the headers & exhaust were installed. We will get torque numbers & I will share those the next time on the dyno as we ran out of time.
Can you post a picture of where you picked up the torque wire, I know it is green but where is the easiest place to tap it?
http://www.planet-9.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=3&limit=views
http://www.planet-9.com/gallery/files/3/dyno_milltek_and_AWE_sm.JPG
http://www.planet-9.com/gallery/files/3/Dyno_Stock_sm.JPG
Revo is working on a new program & we should see 290 at the wheels when done.
We believe the car can take more timing & lean it out a little more w/ no problems so we will do that soon.
That is the benefit of going w/ the Revo software & tuning w their SPS/OBD II port tuning tool.
Just my opinion.
I never had starting numbers on the dynojet without mods, my beginning numbers on dynojet already included intake and ecu tuning so my dynojet numbers (20hp gain) were EXHAUST only. Your dynojet numbers were Exhaust + ECU + Intake.
I don't know where they picked up any wires for anything, they had some inductive wire that went around a spark plug cable I think, I didn't look down in the engine compartment to see what they put it around, there was no tapping into anything, no wires were spliced or cut.
Reason for lower dyno numbers.
Same on my e60 M5 was much bigger wheels & tires.
M5......430 stock
M5 w/ big wheels & tires.........412
I assume the same w/ the cayman s ie
CS Stock.........264-265
CS w/ big wheels & tires....259-260
A good dyno takes into account the wheel size as the car is calibrated on the dyno so larger wheels and tires should not change the dyno readings. However, if those wheels are heavier I could see where spinning the mass could take longer to get up to speed but once up to speed would also hold that speed longer during decel. The differences may be so slight as to not even show up on a dyno. The only truly reliable chasis dynos are the ones that hook up to your hubs like F1 dynos, not the wheels.
metalman, I don't share cay'y's view of your numbers but it does appear that based solely on your results and solely under your conditions that the B&B made less hp than either milltek or awe which is fine, I don't expect all exhaust systems to be the same. The bottom line is whether or not you are happy with it, and if you are, it doesn't really matter what the numbers are!
Yes I am happy but...
Not as happy as if my car dyno'd at 300 at the wheels or more.
Did you ever dyno on a dynojet w/ your setup?
You have any interest in coming down here for a day at the track & we could dyno your car on our 248c my treat for both?
disregard dynojet numbers but...
Your 283 included the exhaust, intake & ecu correct?
Forgetting the 260 was w/ ecu & intake we both ended up in the same place w/ all three correct?
I ended up with 285 with intake, ecu, milltek header and AWE exhaust on the DynoJet dyno in KC on that day and under those conditions. On the Mustang dyno with the exact same configuration I ended up at 304-305. On the DynoJet dyno the AWE catback with Milltek headers resulted in a 20hp increase at the rear wheels on the DynoJet dyno (265-285) because ECU and Intake were on for both of those runs. I don't have a run completely stock on the local DynoJet dyno.
You can't really compare one dyno to another, even the same brand, so what is important is how much HP did your car gain from which mods on the same dyno. In my instance ECU+Intake+Stock Exhaust = 265, and then with the Milltek headers and AWE = 285 so my gain was 20hp from that combo on that dyno that day.
If we both ended up at the same number (285) it doesn't tell us anything because your starting numbers were different. What you need to look at is the difference on your dyno with your mods which I think (without scrolling back to look) was a gain of 13hp for your headers and catback combo.
So we are left with saying one combo on one dyno produced a gain of 20 and another combo on another dyno produced 13. You can't really go beyond that because it wasn't on the same dyno the same day. It certainly gives the appearance that the Milltek+AWE combo is more efficient than the B&B combo, but without further testing I wouldn't make that a definitive statement. I would caveat that on X dyno on Y day under Z conditions, etc. etc. different results were achieved.
That's why I always say it comes down to whether you are happy with it or not. Zornet was not pleased with his Fabspeed header + AWE catback results, a gain of 2-4HP I think? So I recommended that he take it to another dyno and get before and after tests done there, he has half of that done currently. I also asked him if he liked the sound and it felt faster/more responsive, etc. and he said yes. So that's what it really comes down to anyway, are you the owner happy? If so, time to find something else to mod!
I respectfully disagree.
I've been doing this for 20 years & unfortunately your thinking is flawed as is mine.
At the end of the day on a dynojet w/ similar setups we both ended up w/ 283 & 285 respectfully.
BS w/ all the other stuff as the only true way to tell this is the same dyno the same day but I will tell you from toooo much experience that the Mustang means nothing & the dynojet is the only one that matters regardless of where we started b/c you can't add two & two together it's just where you end up.
As i said before I would be hapy to take you to the track down here & we can dyno your car on the same one as mine & see what we both get but I really believe they will be the same.
I just got my car from Neil Orton and I tell you this thing screams! If you want just ask Neil.
I have BB headers and exhaust and it sounds mean, this system is not for the country club group. It is a gear head dream however. I don't live near a dyno but I am a betting man and I would give odds that I would beat your numbers. I would because of the package that I have and because of Orton's reflash.
Like I said just ask Neil.
I agree... I have the BB setup also... You are so right about it not being for the country club crowd... My wife knows long before I get to the garage that I'm home... I will have mine dyno'd prior to the turbo-charger upgrade in the spring and then after the upgrade... TPC claims 510hp... We shall see... Even if it's close to that number I'll be thrilled...
Team, I'm glad you're happy with the setup... I remember when you asked that I told you it was a mean & loud system...
Headers & Horsepower
We just did a FabSpeed header set on 987C. The intitial dyno test showed less than I expected but it was in the 5-6 HP range (I expected 8, don't ask me why) with cats and mufflers (Champion exhaust pipes I believe). This was before we had run the car enough for the computer to "re-learn" the settings so I don't know what the final results will be. We did not de-snork this car or do any other mods so I am confident that this is a good baseline for headers on the Cayman S.
I did not drive the car much, but I did notice good throttle response at low RPM and a very aggressive exhaust note. Quite a change from the stock headers.
Stan
Stan,
I think it's probably my CS you're talking about wrt to the Fabspeed headers. The exhaust is actually a stock exhaust with the secondary cats removed with some custom piping done by Pfaff when I bought the car.
I can't speak to the exact numbers, but there is a very noticeable improvement in throttle response and sound. Of all the mods done to date 9UCU flash, CAI, de-snork) the headers seem (by feel) to provide the most significant jump in performance, but I can't quantify it. I have to say I'm happy with the Fabspeed headers, and maybe I've left some hp on the table by not changing the exhaust as well. Something to contemplate in the spring I guess. In the meantime, I can only hope Calabogie (and some others) relax their dB limits ....
Hey Mike I told you that it would be a blast.I am no expert on exhaust sounds and don't resell B&B but the package had one of the best sounds that I have heard.Also the flash ain't bad either.
Neil
