New Kreissieg Cat-back F1 VT Exhaust!

For those whom have never heard of them, they are extremely expensive, run $15k for a titanium version for some Ferarris. Anyway, they have a valve that is installed in the cabin, a quiet mode and a LOUD mode. I've heard them on other cars and now looks like they have a Cayman version, checkout the videos on the link. Where cost is no issue... http://www.eisenhaus.com/ehprice.ph...odel=4560&selSub=442&selPerf=1&selTip=1349#1.0#none.gif&Submit.x=36&Submit.y=13

$5568!!!!Ouch!!! way too much for just Cat-back.

the sound is the best that i've heard so far. but the price is the most expensive too. i think it's a little overpriced even though it's a stainless steel.

does it wash your car for you?? lol

Sounds awesome.....! With it's loud/quiet mode it reminds me of the PSE (Porsche Sport Exhaust) for $2,100. I wish we could find someone who has PSE that's willing to Dyno the car in both modes and report back on sound and feel.

Nobody has the PSE yet. It should be available first of the year.

I doubt that the PSE will offer any power improvements. It's just a lot of money for a lot of noise! But it is an official product so will not hurt your warranty.

Sounds good but too much money...

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Flyer, You are correct. My company makes electronics for cars so I am very familiar with the act and use it often to fight warranty denials. The dealership techs are never able to really put their money where their mouth is. But that doesn't mean they won't inconvenience the hell out of you trying. I read posts in which changing to an aftermarket exhaust can trigger check engine lights because of the less effective cat converters. Do this, and though your dealership may not void your warranty, I'd be damn surprised if they will keep clearing that error code for free when they know it's caused by an aftermarket cat converter. Maybe once or twice. After that it's going to start costing you. Also, when messing with the exhaust there are many other legalities that you are flirting with. From an EPA standpoint you are altering the noise control and emissions devices of the car. I know everyone says that the PSE adds no power (because Porsche doesn't claim an increase). I find that hard to believe. If you took the best engineers Porsche has and asked them to make an exhaust system that's louder but adds no power, I think they would struggle. To achieve more sound you need to reduce aerodynamic resistance inside the system. It's hard to do this without gaining power at higher RPMs. Why do you suppose these aftermarket cat back systems add power? Is it because the engineers in these little back town companies are more intelligent than those employed by Porsche? Or is it because they can deliver a system that is louder than the EPA mandates Porsche make theirs, and therefore can reduce that resistance which adds power? If you look at the article that K-Man S posted on the exhaust system install, I can certainly see why the headers produce more power. Many people who have the PSE on 997s, 996s, and Boxsters swear to god that they can feel an increase. Nay sayers say that it's all in their head because of the added sound. I say, slap it on a dyno and answer the question once and for all.....!

Thx, that is good to know!

Off-road use only? I dont think the Miltek or AWE says that

chows4us, I seem to recall a member here named GhostRider citing a case where BMW lost under that act or maybe it was a different case, but there have been triumphs, but as you say at what cost? Even if you get the auto maker to pay all of your expenses you are still out your time and headaches caused. Last, but not least, the audio/video file for the exhaust in question in this thread has certainly been "enhanced" through some post-processing so while it may sound good on your computer I could do the same thing to the sound clips I did for AWE, Milltek, etc. and it won't really make those exhausts any better. Hearing the exhaust in person is what counts.

Here are a few, I'm sure there are many more: 1> Razor v. Hyundai Motor Am., 349 Ill. App. 3d 651 (Ill. App. Ct. 2004): consumer prevailed against manufacturer who denied warranty coverage after he installed and aftermarket car starter. the court held in part that "Plaintiff was not required to prove the specific cause of the failure to start, only that the defect existed in materials or parts covered by the warranty, those originally manufactured or installed by Hyundai, and that there was no secondary cause for the [***26] defect. The above evidence that the problem continued after replacement of the remote starter and was not remedied until after replacement of the starter relay and trans range switch also supports the jury's apparent conclusion that the defect existed in the original parts." 2> Universal Motors v. Waldock, 719 P.2d 254 (Alaska 1986) (BMW N.A. case): dosn't involve aftermarket parts, but BMW deniad warranty for alleged overreving. Owner relied on MM Act to enforce warranty and forced BMW to prove overrevving and not other defect in material was cause. Owner won...the court held that "Once the consumer offers credible evidence that the defect is materials or workmanship related, the burden shifts to the warrantor to prove consumer abuse." 3> Cline v. DaimlerChrysler Co., 2005 OK CIV APP 31, 20 (Okla. Ct. App. 2005) similiar to above...but a dodge truck. In each, the car owner was also awarded costs and attorney fees... its not as hard as it might seem, and the weight of the case law usually makes the car ompanies cave before it gets to trial, they settle and its never reported....hence the lack of Porsche specific cases. I'll keep looking for one though... -dw

oh and eisenhaus stuff is TOP Notch, worth ever penny, their products will not be the soruce of any damage or failure. I can't wait to put a set of their Neez wheels on my car in the spring....becasue as Borat would say, their very Neez, yeah!! dw

I brought this up because one I guy know tried against BMW and gave up. Here is a few quotes: Just a note that I have retained an attorney (well, our corporate lawyer) and we are going to go after BMW NA for a MM act violation. ... they are denying warranty service on my car because they have not performed all of the work under the hood. ... My lawyer was very honest up front when he stated that the Magnussen-Moss Act, by it's very structure, favors the manufacturer. ... This means time and money, and the time aspect alone makes it difficult for almost anyone to hold out long enough to get results. Our corporate lawyers are heavy construction litigators - some of the baddest, meanest SOBs in the business - used to wringing money out of public agencies and large private clients to the tune of tens of millions of dollars. If a guy we have given business to for 30 years and who has protected my interests during 18 years of that time with a fanatic zeal tells me, "give it up Curly, it will take us 18 months and well over 12x the price of the issue to even get a shot at a resolution", I know two things - (1) the Act ain't worth the paper it's written on and (2) basic math tells me it's not worth it. Source http://www.northamericanmotoring.com THANK YOU very much!!! Been looking for just that kind of info and why I asked. The point I was trying to convey was the cost and was probably not worth the effort ... as Kman noted above.

I work for the worlds largest manufacturer of remote starts and car alarms. You can't imagine the frequency in which I see dealerships denying warranty coverage because of our devices. They never say they are going to 'void' the warranty. Even they know better. But it's pretty easy for them to do a 'warranty block' in which they deny to cover a specific repair under the warranty because of an aftermarket device. They like to do this because the warranty labor ops are very weak and a customer pay labor op is much more profitable for them. I'm not a lawyer and I have successfully used the Magnuson Moss act to get dealerships to step up and stop jerking car owners around in these circumstances. So I am pretty confident that if it ended up in court the car owner would make out pretty well. But like I said, you can't even imagine the BS that the you, the car owner, will go through before all is said and done.

I've heard of these exhausts before at the M3 forum. A few members had them. They even have a $20,000 (Ferrari?) exhaust if I'm not mistaken. They sound really good, but I just can't justify the price. I'd rather spend that money on a supercharger kit and building the engine. I'll get way more than just a nice sounding exhaust.

Davew or anybody else ... see daves note below All these cases are not involving an owner adding performance mods to their cars. Razor was dealer installed aftermarket part, not performance oriented Waldock was over revving. Does ANYBODY have a URL to go to where the plaintiff was denied warranty service due to performance mods? Ive found lots of MM cases, but non with the performance mods.???

I think it sounds a lot like Tubi IMO

I would definetly want to hear that car in person. From past experience good exhaust systems sound better in person, so you can't get the same effect your ears pick up from a video camera.