Close to buying my first Porsche (GT3)...

I am SERIOUSLY considering buying my first Porsche 911. I've owned a lot of cars, mostly BMW M3's, and most recently, a 2012 Nissan GT-R. However, I've always wanted to feel the visceral feeling of a 911, specifically either a Turbo or a GT3. After reading countless articles online and forum threads, the general consensus seems to be that the 911 Turbo is for people that want the 'easy' way to go with a 911 super car and the GTs being the more 'involved' and 'demanding' way to go. So, after owning a GT-R, I've come to realize that while power is definitely an important factor in the overall driving experience, it is not a substitute for a 'pure' driving experience. The GT-R, in my opinion, is too perfect and shields the driver from the involvement and intimate dynamics of making the car do what it is capable of. I don't know much about the nuances of Porsche GT3's, aside from what I've read, so I'm looking for some advice before I make the leap. I'm looking at two different GT3's and both are 2010 models with around 8,000 miles and CPO. The options are similar between the two, with the exception that one doesn't have NAV (not a big deal). One is white with black interior and the other is red with black interior. The condition on both is excellent, save for a small paint chip on the rear spoiler of the white one and an almost microscopic chip on the upper left windshield of the red one. I plan to keep the car for no more than 2 years and my preference is to lease the car through Porsche. I've heard that the residual and money factor through Porsche for used cars is not great. They are offering 2.9% for 60 months if I finance but I'm not sure if that is the best route to go. I have my own company and I could write off the lease if I can get a decent residual/money factor. Lastly, the asking price for both is $103K, which seems to be fair considering that KBB has them going for $110-113k on retail market. Any feedback would be appreciated!

More info on both cars: The Red one: Has 8900 miles and comes with PCM 3.0/NAV/Sport Exhaust The White one: Has 6600 miles and does not have PCM 3.0/NAV Sport Exhaust

Having driven my brother's 996TT and recently an 07 GT3, they are certainly very different cars. The TT feels heavier, and the AWD is very noticable pulling you our of corners, while at the same time the power delivery will just shove you into the seat. The GT3 does not have the raw power (but more than enough to get your adrenelin pumping), but simply feels much more responsive, and steering inputs are instantaneous. The GT3 has a very heavy clutch, and a very low nose - just buy the lower spoiler lip in bulk, as you will replace it regularly. The gearbox in the GT3 is the best I have felt other than a Honda S2000. However, they are both total overkill on the street, much as I assume your GTR was. You just can not use that power unless you plan to make jail your second home. And with that, the difference in feel driving within a normal sanity level on the street is not really discernable. For a street car, I do think the turbo is a better car, for the track, the GT3 no question; on the other hand, I think both are way over most people's limits on the track anyway, but you sure will sound cool talking about your lap times (driving at 8/10ths). If you are not going to track it, and want something that drives incredibly well, and is not totally insane, and you can drive in a more "legal" mode on the street and still get a thrill, um, get a CaymanS or CaymanR............ If you just want a GT3, well, go get it; it is an inccredible car!

I appreciate the comparison between a 996TT and a GT3. However, my question and dilemma above is regarding which 'GT3' should I get. Can you review the information and provide feedback? Thanks!

Don't see any significant difference between the two cars, particularly since you are only planning to lease for two years. From your post I am not sure why you want a GT3 other than you have not owned one and it has a reputation, it is not my idea of a desirable daily driver and is best suited as a track car.

What are your thoughts on a GTS as a daily driver?

VAUROS, I enjoyed reading introduction... It felt like you're embracing a new faith as you move from GT-R to GT3 Since you have the GT-R, then the GT3 will give much more different feeling as its a very different animal. Like everybody said, it's more track oriented. And the reason they're highlighting this is because some chased the GT3 emblem just to sell it shortly afterwards. Simply because the GT3 isn't as comfy on the streets as the turbo, GTS, Carrera, Cayman or Boxster. Nevertheless, in answer to your question there's not much difference between the two except the color. I'd go for red in a blink for IMO it's the color of the beasts GT2 and GT3. If you want to go more hardcore, check the GT3 RS... no other Porsche comes close in terms of involvement!

Great choice as a DD. The GTS is much closer to a standard Carrera S than to a GT3 in terms of character and livability. Porsche put a lot of goodies into the GTS at a very attractive price. Personally I think it's one of the best 911s in recent memory.

I don't think it really matters as both would be in my rear view mirror at the track. :hilarious: However, if I had to choose, I'd probably pick the red one because it has the sports exhaust and I wouldn't be as inclined to modify it during the 2 year period of ownership. I would check with 3rd party leasing companies for better rates, or your credit union, etc. for better rates if you are going to buy as I've never seen a "deal" from Porsche financial unless they are trying to unload some new car that is sitting around (basically adding trunk money).... Buy an extra seat cushion sized piece of foam padding to use under your butt when driving the GT3 on the street, it helps a little...

I appreciate all of the replies. My motivation to get a GT3 came from watching countless review videos on YouTube, reading countless review articles and my desire to get into a car that is not too easy to drive. The GT-R I had was a Black Edition model and the Recaro seats are STIFF. My *** was hurting for the first 500 miles but the bolsters broke-in shortly after that. Either way, the GT-R is a stiff car even with the comfort suspension settings. I know that the GT3 is even more stiff/tight and as long as I don't end up with back problems I should be ok. Also, I don't think it would make much sense to go from one AWD/Turbo car to another AWD/Turbo car. The reason I sold the GT-R is because I want NA/RWD and Manual trans. The only other car that I would consider getting is a used Audi R8, but I don't want something that exotic at this point.

Have you considered a Jaguar E-Type? - naturally aspirated, RWD, and not nearly as easy to drive fast as a 2010 GT3. Great exhaust note and you'll get lots of stares. Are you tracking this car or just for street use? I've never understood people wanting to drive cars that are "difficult" to drive as if the challenge of getting 1 good lap out of 10 was rewarding. Personally, I'd rather have a car that is set up well, say like a mid-engine Cayman, and learn to drive it fast by doing all the "little" things well, the things that make a real difference in honing your skills. I don't see any ALMS drivers asking for a difficult to drive car. Again, this is assuming on the track. I could see where a GTR on the street would become tiresome after awhile of letting the tranny shift gears for you and punching it from one stop light to the next. On the track I think it is a different story. I've passed GTR's on the track driven by drivers who while they have a fast car that saves their butt for them in most situations they haven't got a clue how to wring the most out of the car. Conversely, I've gone up against a GTR drive who does know how to eek out the nuances of the car and I can't touch him on the track. Maybe since you are keeping the car for only 2 years it doesn't really matter to you, but knowing how much track time, if any, you plan to spend with the car would influence my decision a lot more than some YouTube videos. As for comfort, I'm assuming you are going to actually drive a GT3 before buying so you can see what it's like. While not as comfortable as a "regular" 911, the GT3 is still going to be more comfortable than say a 1960's Corvette and probably easier to drive too as some of those old 427 cars had trannys that were just awful to drive but I digress... any time I think the Cayman is a "raw" sports car, or even a GT3 for that matter, I jump into my father's XK and have no power steering, no power brakes, no disc brakes, no synchros in some of the gears. That's "raw" and "involving" to drive, but I don't think I'd want to use it as a daily driver.

As Ken mentioned, how you intend to use the car--DD or occasional toy--would seem to be the big question. As a DD and if you drive any amount in the city, you might get tired of that clutch and suspension after a short time--or not . Sounds like you need an extended drive in one of those cars in the environment you'll be using it. Maybe a trip to barber might solve it.

I completely understand where you are coming from. The thing that I know for sure, is that I haven't been connected to a car since my E46 M3 days. I had a E92 M3 for a few months before the GT-R and it doesn't have the same soul as the E46 M3. IMO, BMW went a little 'soft' with the E92 M3 compared to the E46 M3. I know I can get this from buying a Cayman R, but I still want some super car elements like power and addicting sound. The GT3 just seems to fuse all of what I want into one car.

Interesting conversation... good luck on your new car As the new guy here... what's the basic concept/differences between the GT3 and GT2? (I've always heard that both don't come alive until you get to the track). I just assumed the GT2 is track only, and the GT3 is both street/track. I ask, because a local guy just traded in a low mileage GT3 for a Cayman R because he said it was too fast for street use... and he wasn't having any fun holding it back all the time (I've never heard that before??? LOL)

I never understood why people here prefer a NA engine over a turbo charged one until I turbo charged mine... In my case I say it's the heat. If I lived in Europe I'd pick a GT2 but in the Middle East, you only make use of it in the winter while the GT3 can flame its tires all year long. One more thing, if you live in a big city with disturbing traffic jams I think any car more than a Carrera is too much.

Get the GT3. I think every man SHOULD experience a gt3 once in his life. You only live once, and let those next 2 years be in a GT3.

Vauros - I had an E46 330ci, basically a Dinan S2 without the diff and rear trunk brace, plus some UUC goodies, and that I tracked quite a bit. While not an E46 M3, it was similar enough that when I drove an E46M3 when I was considering the CS, it just was not "that different" to me for to really consider it. Do yourself a favor, and go drive a CaymanS or R, and a 997S before you jump on the GT3. I think you will be very pleasantly surprised of how different these cars are to the M3 or the GTR. And, much more reasonable for a "street car". While I agree that the difference in a new $80k CaymanS/R vs. the $100k for a used GT3, particularly when you lease may not be that much, but look at what you can get for $50-$60k ($70k for the 997), and you may reconsider given that you are not a track junkie. As noted in a previous post, there are a lot of used low mileage GT3s that the owners realized were not really suitable for just driving around town in (nor do they really like to be driven that way; i.e. those advertised as "never tracked"). A good friend of mine had an 07 GT3 that while he did track it, it was also his primary driver. It just did not work........ In the meantime he has had CaymanSs (2) and a BoxsterS, and he did just get another GT3, but he now has another "daily driver" and an 80s 911, so the "new" GT3 has a very specific role in his stable.

I've owned/tracked the 996 GT3, 997 GT3 and 997 GT3 RS 3.8. You should first drive each of the GT3's and start to develop a feel and preference for the car over the last 8 years. Not just a dealer "demo" drive up the freeway and back, but a real drive. Take it for a drive from the dealer to work and then to home and back. Of course, this is probably 25+ miles and not to be done in a pristine showroom car, but in a 5K or 10K mile used, three year-old car, well worth the investment. In the last 20 years, I've seen drivers tend to "gravitate" towards the 911 they really like. Some like the Carrera. Some like the '04 GT3, others like the '07. Some really like or dislike the '10 GT3, but it's still a "new" car, so it's hard to say -- Porsche devotees tend to be a bit reluctant to like the new one. : ) If you settle on the 2010, great. Prices you quote for a 6K+ mile car are too high. Forget lease products for now. Definitely get a lease, but that can come from anywhere, not just a dealer. And CPO is good, but it's not a 100% bumper to bumper guarantee of anything, just a way to spend money up front to defray the statistical exposure to risk of costly repairs. Realize the GT3 is sitting on $2000 in tires that will wear out in 8K miles. Insurance is higher, perhaps double of a Carrera and equal to a GTR. A service could be $500 or $2000 or more. So the CPO might protect you from a factory defect, but I read a lot about GT3 and RS owners and I don't read a lot about expensive operating costs. But there is one point of weakness in the 2010 GT3 -- it has centerlock wheels. These have become a question mark for Porsche. On track, they have a way of wearing and even failing. I can only encourage you to do some homework and know what's up and be sure the given car you choose is not already showing signs of warranty issues around the centerlocks. For your first GT3, especially if it's a 997.1 or 996 GT3, a CPO is good, but don't let it sway your decision too far when you find a good one. A lease is a sound financial decisions, especially when interest rates are near zero and the lowest all time levels. Just don't let a lease tease you into buying more car than you'll be able to enjoy or afford. There's a lot of fun in driving a $50K car that becomes an inhibition and no fun in a $100K car. Whatever 911 you choose, turbo or naturally aspirated, noisy and exciting GT3 or fast and smooth Carrera, once you're in a 911, you'll be very unlikely to look back to a GTR or M3 or whatever. So buy a good one. To find a good one, you'll have to drive each type and more than once, and find a private sale. In my experience, the only way to get a really good car is to buy from the person who owns it. Not a dealer or trader. First owner, good. Second owner, fine and probably just as good. Judge the car by the owner. Ask questions. Get to know them and the car and the experience of owning the car. If you're hearing excuses and stories, if it's hard to get straight answers and see a tidy record of the car, just shake hands and say goodbye. If you're hearing facts and details, if you're getting candid information and straight, upfront discussion from someone who clearly cares and knows how to own a car and is not an *** in other aspects of what you see around the car and around where the car stays, you're on to "a good one" and it's time to ask to take up more of the seller's time, take a drive, pore over the records and photos of the cars life, the copies of service records and alignment work, the receipts for "little things" and the attention to detail of having the car in good condition, ready for sale. You're off to a good start -- as you find cars, post all the information about them. Dont' be afraid of "if I let others know this car is for sale, they might buy it before I get a chance" ... every car for sale is already advertised and others like you have already found it. You have the advantage of posting to Web forums and checking the facts, getting advice and learning about the cars.

The 3.8 kicks out a good amount of welly and it is the last of the true rear engined 911's and is much quicker round the track than the 997.1 GT3, and on par with 997.1 Turbos!! And in two years time you should be ready for the next 991 GT3 which will be even quicker. Any 996 GT3 owner who wouldn't rather have a 997 GT3 is either lying or had one too many offs into the gravel trap and against the Armco, that they have some serious head trauma now! The 997 GT3 is a treasure to drive and it simply got better with the gen 2, which maintains character but gets rid of some of the not so nice traits of the prior models.

Very good discussion going on here. To qualify before I add, currently own 2010 GT3. Seriously considered a GT-R when looking...until I drove one on track. Before that owned a 2009 CS which I tracked quite a bit. Owned a lot of other high performance cars too. My thoughts: 1. All the reviews and articles are right. The GT3 is an amazingly special car. A year after purchasing, I still smile when the garage door opens or when I push the car hard. 2. It takes a special kind of crazy to enjoy DD'ing this car. It's incredibly low (without front lift); has a heavy clutch; consumes $2500 Pilot Sport Cup tires in 4-6K miles; depreciates like a stone after 10-20K miles. 3. For any of us to better help you, I would suggest you define your use better (100% street; 80/20 street track, etc). For me, this is the perfect car for weekend drives, track and fun. DD - not with my 1hr average commutes; no way. 4. The center lock wheels of the .2 cars are a serious concern IF you track or do your own maintenance and aren't crazy anal. There is also the GT1 block coolant pipe issue with all GT3/GT2/turbo cars. Seems to be faring better with the .2 cars but it could just be mileage (as they haven't accumulated as many yet). 5. I second the recommendation that you test drive a .2 turbo, .1 GT3, .2 GT3 and a Cayman R and 991 CS. That spectrum of cars will give you a clear leader for which car suits you. All are fantastic and just different shades of the same greatness IMHO. If you have any other specific questions, feel free to ask away and I'll try to answer. Best of luck finding the right car.

To be completely honest, I'll probably get to track the car twice a year. The majority of the time the car will be driven on the weekends and occasionally during the week to run errands. My only true worry is depreciation on the car over the next two years, especially after the 991 GT3 comes out. I normally don't keep cars longer than 1-2 years and I know I'll want to upgrade to the 991 GT3 within the next 2-3 years. I'm really trying to force myself to get the GT3 with no regard for any other 911, because I want the purest drive and connection I can get.

I think what I might do is wait for the new 991s to drop and see what the consensus is between the 997 and the 991. If the general consensus is that the 997 is the best iteration of the GT3, then I'll probably go for a GT3 RS which is what I truly want. After depreciation hits after the 991s are out, I'll be able to get a GT3 RS at GT3 prices.

For 2 track days a year a gt3 rs is a bit of an overkill. Even a gt3 as a dd is frankly a bit uncomfortable, a cayman of any stripe will be superior on that. Having said all that a gt3 on the track is one of the best weapons u can lay your hands on.

I've recently faced a similar decision myself when researching the purchase of my first Porsche. Like many here, I looked at GT3s, GTSs, and lastly the Cayman R. The purpose of the car is for track days, autox, hill climbs and the occasional back road blast. In the end, I went with the Cayman R. While the R is more civilized that a GT3, I see little attraction in daily driving the R. Its loud, low, and has a firm ride that does wear on you on a longer drive where road are less that perfect. I suspect I will, eventually, own a GT3; for the now R is more than sufficient and its performance envelope is far above my own driving skills and, realistically, the car really needs to be on a track to approach its limits in a sane manner. Cheers, DJM

Porsche is bringing PDK with the 991 GT3... No more excuses to DD it, except for the ridiculous tag price

Here's where you realize that you are finally talking truth to yourself and glimpse that you almost bought a car you really didn't want. "Red or white"--they're both wrong for the right reasons!