Bleeding Clutch 987.2 factory procedure?

Hi all, I think I have some with air in my clutch hydraulics. Over the weekend I started experiencing some clutch shudder with the car on and shifting into third and fourth gears. I searched here and found many threads including this one http://www.planet-9.com/987-cayman-...er-service-and-tech/85606-clutch-shudder-6mt.html?highlight=clutch+master+bleed . ... what I experienced is similar to as described in that thread. Then I remembered them last time I bled my brakes I saw air get into a small tube about two thirds the way up from the brake fluid reservoir, which at the time I thought went to the brakes, but now I know goes to the clutch master cylinder. Dumb I know. Live and learn. I hope I do not have a bad clutch master cylinder or slave cylinder and it's just some air in the clutch lines. So, question is whether someone has the proper porsche recommended procedure (from the shop manual, etc.) to bleed the clutch master and slave cylinders ... I.e., keep clutch pedal depressed, pump the clutch pedal, how much fluid to flush, etc. There seems to be some disagreement on this in this forum, and I rather follow the procedure recommended by the factory. I know there is a bleed "nipple" on top of the tranny that looks similar to the bleeding nipple for the brakes, which is where I attach the catch can for the old draining fluid. I plan to do the "dry" method with a Motive bleeder with fresh ATE gold 200 brake fluid. Thanks for the help! :cheers:

Here's the steps for a 987.1 Porsche service manual. I cut and pasted it here. I doubt it is any different for a 987.2 . You can probably find the PDF in the Files section. 1. Remove the cover over the brake fluid reservoir. Fill reservoir to its top edge with new brake fluid. Connect the bleeding device to the brake fluid reservoir. --> See Fig. 1. NOTE: In general, a minimum filling time of 90 seconds must be observed. Use only new Super DOT 4 class brake fluid. This brake fluid is available under the following part numbers:  Container quantity 1 litre = 000.043.203.66  Container quantity 30 litres = 000.043.203.67 2006 Porsche Cayman S TRANSMISSION Clutch, control Automotive-Manual.net 2. Switch on the bleeding device and set an overpressure of approx. 1.3 bar. 3. Open the bleeder valve -arrow- on the clutch slave cylinder. See Fig. 2. 4. Move pedal extremely slowly to the "Pedal fully depressed" position. When doing so, guide the pedal by hand so that it does not move forward abruptly. 5. Allow the brake fluid to rinse through for 30 seconds. 6. Afterwards, activate complete pedal travel manually very slowly for a further 60 seconds. After about 10 to 15 pedal strokes, leave the pedal in its normal position. Once this filling period has elapsed, check that no more bubbles appear at the bleeder valve (use a collecting bottle with transparent hose). Then close the bleeder valve. 7. Switch off and disconnect the bleeding device. Check the brake fluid level. It should not be above the MAX. mark. 8. Activate the clutch pedal slowly, five times. 9. Fit the cover over the brake fluid reservoir. I'm curious how you got air in the clutch line by bleeding the brakes. The reservoir has a divider to keep the clutch fluid from getting low while bleeding brakes. Also - where are you getting fresh ATE Blue? They stopped selling that in the US around 5 years ago.

Thanks RS!!!! I'm looking for that PDF with pics as we speak (if you have it handy, pls link it). I wonder how much fluid it will take using the recommended pumping the pedal method and bleeding for 60 seconds? In other words, if I fill the reservoir to the max, will i need to stop halfway to refill it? this is now definitely a two person job. I'm not sure how i managed to screw it up, but in my car, the brake reservoir has a little tube down on the side. I took out too much fluid out with my turkey baster and air got in there. I saw it happen. Being the stupid person I am, I did not realize at the time this went to the clutch, so I figured the air would come out once I bled the brakes. But alas, I did not bleed the clutch last time so I think it's likely my current clutch issues are related to this (I hope). Otherwise, I have a bad clutch master or slave. But I'll try the bleeding first to see if it solves the issue. ps. and you are right, I use ATE type 200 gold (no idea why my itchy little fingers typed blue -- i edited it). thanks!!!

What does this mean, exactly? Do it once for 60 seconds, then do it normally 10-15 times? Or do it 10-15 times within 60 seconds, which does not seem "very slow" at all?

So I bled the clutch today. Fairly straight forward procedure thanks to RS's posted instructions. The bleeding screw on top of the transmission was a huge PITA to open with a wrench. So I used a 11mm socked with a 3 inch wobble extension to loosen it up until I could use my fingers to open it all the way. VERY little space up there to work in. I filled up the brake reservoir all the way to the top with fresh fluid and then pressurized it to about 18-19 psi using the "dry" method with the motive. Then I connected the flexible tubbing from the motive catch bottle to the bleeding nipple and opened up the bleed screw so fluid steadily but slowly flowed. I followed the pumping procedure posted above for 60 seconds. Filled about half the motive catch bottle. I did have to depressurize the motive half way through and replenish the brake fluid (conservative but did not want to risk it going below the clutch fill tube). Results: omg, feels like a different car. Problem solved. My clutch pedal is great now. Smooth with perfect engagement. I must have been riding on a crappy air filled clutch for a while. Moral of the story: if you feel the clutch not perfect of feel some chatter at clutch engagement bleed your clutch fluid!!! Night and day. While I was at it, I also changed my engine air filter. A bit more involved in the boxster given the convertible top on the way and the bose , but that was also easy peasy. Easier than I thought it would be, although fitting the air filter inside the housing is a 10 minute exercise in frustration. After a few cuss words I got it in. Also checked the power steering fluid (might as well), and Noticed it was low. So I added a bit of the required pentosin 202 (I did have to walk around the block to buy a bottle at the auto parts store). I feel accomplished today. Time for a few beverages.

When I did my clutch I let it get too low and had to re-bleed. It's a job that is easier with another person helping. On the PS fluid - I just want to make sure you knew that the marks on the dipstick are NOT min/max. They are cold/hot levels. You don't want to overfill because any leaks are bad on rubber hoses and paint.

Thanks RS. I did not know that re the PS fluid, thanks. I filled it to the intermediate point between both marks but there was still lots of "room" in the reservoir. I also did spill a bit when pouring the fluid in the reservoir and cleaned up in the immediate area but I'm sure some must have leaked down. I'll get under car now to see how much of a mess I did. Rinse off with water, I suppose. Thanks.

Updating this thread. Issue came back over the weekend. I re-bled the clutch slave and no cigar. No leaks on master cylinder , so that may good. But I either have a bad slave, bad master, or the clutch itself (thinking pressure plate or throw out bearing) is toast. It feels like clutch pressure plate is not disengaging fully when clutch pedal returns to resting position. in neutral, I can feel the clutch grabbing a bit and making some noise. Calling indy shops and dealers to get quotes. I'm expecting it to be a ~$3,000 nut. I can do most maintenance work on the car, but dropping the tranny is not one of them. Ugh.

My guess would be that your clutch pressure plate has given up. Unfortunately you won't know for sure until the tranny has been removed.

cross posting to an older thread made years ago I had forgotten about, for reference... the issue came back. http://www.planet-9.com/987-cayman-...d-boxster-problems-and-complaints/59315-6spd-not-shifting-into-3rd-4th-5th.html could be a $8K fix...douh!

8k ?. Holy moly

2011 Boxster S Good information on the procedure. If I flush the brakes followed by the clutch slave cylinder how much fluid should I have on hand?

The problem with a guess-timate is the unknown of how much "extra" you end up bleeding. For example, my owner's manual says my 2010 brake fluid contains .39 liters. I assume that does not include the clutch (since many cars have PDK ). So I thought I was safe just buying two 500ml cans. But I blew through both on the brakes and had to go get another to do the clutch. So to be safe, I'd get double what you think you'll need. The problem is that unless your old fluid is filthy, the only way to tell it a line is flushed is to measure how much came out at each corner. Assume rears need to bleed more than fronts. For the slave, clutch, I can only guess.

How do you know that you got all the air out of it? If you are sure that you felt a difference in the clutch pedal after you bled it the first time, then you certainly had air in the line. I bought one of these about 12 years ago. I've used it on about 4 of my cars since then to bleed clutch and brake lines (not the 981 though - haven't had a need) and it works infinitely better than the getting-the-wife-to-press-the-pedal-as-you-bleed-from-under-the-car method. Granted, it may not do as much to cement your marriage, but I've had very stubborn air that I just couldn't get out until I go this. I recently replaced both calipers on my Citroen and lost a lot of fluid from the lines (pain in the butt job). I used this, and eradicated all the air, like a pro. I just couldn't get it all out by manually pressing and holding the brake pedal. https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwabe...der/007237sch01a/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2IXf9drz2AIVR7jACh3kcQC7EAQYAiABEgJDxvD_BwE

The clutch slave bleed is in a tight location and a regular 11 mm flare nut wrench won't work. A 3/8 flare nut crows foot might work, but a 1/4 would be better--but I couldn't find one. My solution, shown in the photograph was to take a 9mm/11mm flex crows foot and run a bolt through 9mm side. I could then take a 13mm ratcheting wrench and turn the assembly. This kept the turning forces pretty much in plane and worked well. Once the valve was loose, it could be opened and closed by turning the assembly by hand and then the ratcheting wrench used to finish the procedure. The flex crows foot is a Gearwrench unit available from Amazon , although anything about the same length should work. 2102 Cayman R (modified)

Clever solution, thanks for sharing it!

Sorry to bump an old thread here, but I'm going through this process and I don't know if the whole pumping the clutch pedal process is necessary. Seems that pumping the clutch pedal it's really not needed for routine maintenance if you're using the power bleeder as I think most of us are. If you're changing out the slave or master cylinder and have air in the lines, then yes I understand why you'd pump the pedal. Otherwise, I've read that it's fine to just crack the clutch bleeder valve and leave the pedal alone. Can anyone chime in who has done this?

I followed the factory procedure the last time I changed the fluid. You definitely get fluid flowing without pumping the pedal however, so I assume you can replace "most" of the fluid without pumping. The bleeder is a real pain to get to. I ended up breaking it loose with a very short flare nut wrench (that I bought specifically for this one bleeder) and then using my fingers. A normal wrench won't get in there. A crow foot might work (also see the contraption above).

Thanks for the input, I may try it without all the pumping nonsense and just give it a shot. No real clutch issues other than a minor squeak which I think could either be something with the pressure plate/throw out bearing, or maybe some air in the cylinder. And yeah I’m not looking forward to that bleeder valve, was just in there doing transmission cables so I know how much of a PITA it is. Hoping a crows foot flare nut wrench will make the job easier.