Cayman GTS on Top Gear - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Hammond tests it on the track with a Corvette. See here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05469cm

On in 5 mins on BBC2 (repeated salt flat documentary earlier was worth a watch too, pt 2 next week).

Glowing brake discs!

I'm still wondering why they spent half the show talking about s t pugs rather than a more in depth review of either the corvette and gts. Also worth saying that I personally (apart from price) didn't see the point in comparing a ~600bhp car vs ~340bhp. Would have been better to compare to other cars in same class. Super cool would have been clarkson reviewig it against the gen 1 coxster to see if his views had moved on. Rather disappointed with top gear this series

Trotmant said: I'm still wondering why they spent half the show talking about s t pugs rather than a more in depth review of either the corvette and gts. Also worth saying that I personally (apart from price) didn't see the point in comparing a ~600bhp car vs ~340bhp. Would have been better to compare to other cars in same class. Super cool would have been clarkson reviewig it against the gen 1 coxster to see if his views had moved on. Rather disappointed with top gear this series Agree. The drag race as pointless as it was, wasn't totally embarrassing. I was rather surprised

Its the same price, the new Vette is clearly excellent. Why would you not think its a reasonable comparison??? And its the regular Vette with 460bhp not the Z06 which has been jousting against 991 GT3s in the press.

Trotmant said: I'm still wondering why they spent half the show talking about s t pugs rather than a more in depth review of either the corvette and gts. Also worth saying that I personally (apart from price) didn't see the point in comparing a ~600bhp car vs ~340bhp. Would have been better to compare to other cars in same class. Super cool would have been clarkson reviewig it against the gen 1 coxster to see if his views had moved on. Rather disappointed with top gear this series Didn't they test the 460bho version?

sidicks said: Trotmant said: I'm still wondering why they spent half the show talking about s t pugs rather than a more in depth review of either the corvette and gts. Also worth saying that I personally (apart from price) didn't see the point in comparing a ~600bhp car vs ~340bhp. Would have been better to compare to other cars in same class. Super cool would have been clarkson reviewig it against the gen 1 coxster to see if his views had moved on. Rather disappointed with top gear this series Didn't they test the 460bho version? Maybe I was dreaming, but I swore they said it was 600 something bhp or was that the torque?

Trotmant said: Maybe I was dreaming, but I swore they said it was 600 something bhp or was that the torque? I'm pretty sure they referred to 460bhp and the same amount of 'torques'...

Agree. The drag race as pointless as it was, wasn't totally embarrassing. I was rather surprised [/quote] Yeah agree. I was willing it on with its lap time, Mrs was looking at me weird shouting at the TV. Thought it lost it on the last two corners. I wonder what spec they were running i.e. with PVT or without

You're shocked that Top Gear do something pointless?

Is the Corvette available in RHD? It did seem a contrived comparison. The Peugeot bit took labouring a point to a new level. I'd just have shown more of Salonen, Vatanen and Kankunnen in the T16 - proper drivers in a proper car.

sidicks said: Trotmant said: Maybe I was dreaming, but I swore they said it was 600 something bhp or was that the torque? I'm pretty sure they referred to 460bhp and the same amount of 'torques'... Well I think my point is still valid, i.e. its carrying an +100bhp lets be honest a 911 s would have been a better comparison for power to handling (states vs. Euro).

miroku said: You're shocked that Top Gear do something pointless? I don't mind pointless they've always done that, but the car reviews on this series seem really wooly. In the past I feel they have been much more holistic i.e. you only have to watch the gen 1 cayman s review, where to be fair apart from Clarksons own views, its a very fair reflection of the car imo. (and i used to own one so would agree with the pro's and con's.) with tonights episode didn't really explore this. They keep putting james may in cars also, he is the worst. I wish they would stop this.

That brief shot of the 405 Mi16 twanged at my heart strings - I had a red one back in 1990 as a Company steer - loved it.

The news 'banter' ended up being a bit painful, switched off a bit for that. Peugeot segment could have been much better, although funny in parts, the poor driving bit was stretched to the max. I do wonder how they get away with the driving standards on open public roads though. Like others have said, more of the cayman/corvette or the La Ferrari would have been good. I did assume it was the Z06 on test, but if it was the normal one, I'm quite impressed. I do like the idea of one (the v8 rumble at Le mans does that), but just not brave enough and then there is the image. How fast is the Z06 then!

DS240 said: I do wonder how they get away with the driving standards on open public roads though. Pretend they're in Bradford? Problem with TG is that the car reviews are woefully behind the times and it's all been done by better people on You Tube already and the "silly" bits are, well, just plain silly. They once did relevant reviews, then they did entertaining stuff, now they seem to be lost in between.

What I couldn't get my head around with the Corvette review was that hammond was changing gear manually, and then in other shots the wheel he was holding had paddles. It was interesting during the oversteer shots, the Cayman was oversteering but its nose always hit the apex, the corvette on the other hand looked absolutely all over the place. I would really struggle to throw a vette round on the road in that manner, while I would feel incredibly comfortable doing it in the Cayman Also thought the manual gearbox in the vette looked incredibly agricultural when Hammond was shifting.

While I don't have much (normally not any) time for Top Gear, if there is any relevance in their tests, it begs the question of whether the Corvette is faster than a GT4 as well. And if it was how many potential GT4 owners would cancel their orders? Very few, I suspect, if only because most of their other halves would baulk at co-habiting with a lap dancer....

bcr5784 said: While I don't have much (normally not any) time for Top Gear, if there is any relevance in their tests, it begs the question of whether the Corvette is faster than a GT4 as well. I suspect the Corvette and GTS were running Michelin Pilot Super Sports, the GT4 comes with Sport Cup 2 standard. Put those tyres on the GTS and it'd be as fast as the Corvette, that doesn't even account for the larger tyres, higher power output, different aero and modified suspension on the GT4.

straightsixmik said: What I couldn't get my head around with the Corvette review was that hammond was changing gear manually, and then in other shots the wheel he was holding had paddles. I noticed the paddles on a manual car! I could only think that they saved costs by not developing 2 steering wheels for manual and auto so stuck the same one on manual which for a £65k car is disappointing! Re. GTS.. 1.21 time with only 335 bhp in a road car is a very respectable time!

Of course it is a relevant comparison - 2 seater sports cars of similar price ! How else would you decide on a comparison ? But it was actually impressive how close the Cayman was in both drag race and lap time. When you take into account residuals, interior etc the Corvette really doesnt figure for most people I imagine.

sootyvrs said: straightsixmik said: What I couldn't get my head around with the Corvette review was that hammond was changing gear manually, and then in other shots the wheel he was holding had paddles. I noticed the paddles on a manual car! I could only think that they saved costs by not developing 2 steering wheels for manual and auto so stuck the same one on manual which for a £65k car is disappointing! Re. GTS.. 1.21 time with only 335 bhp in a road car is a very respectable time! I noticed the paddles on a manual car! Would have been better to have either both with a stick or brought a GTS with PDK. As for rubber my GTS came with P0's as standard not cup tires, maybe PGB shafted me

EricE said: I suspect the Corvette and GTS were running Michelin Pilot Super Sports, the GT4 comes with Sport Cup 2 standard. Put those tyres on the GTS and it'd be as fast as the Corvette, that doesn't even account for the larger tyres, higher power output, different aero and modified suspension on the GT4. But if that is the case put those tyres on a Corvette and what happens? If they really are worth a couple of seconds a lap round the TG circuit it would put the Corvette in some very rarified company.

My CGTS came with Goodyear Eagles!! If the TG car was on those I'm surprised it was just over a second slower.

bcr5784 said: But if that is the case put those tyres on a Corvette and what happens? If they really are worth a couple of seconds a lap round the TG circuit it would put the Corvette in some very rarified company. We'll find out when the Z06 does the lap. There's little doubt in my mind that it'll post 991 GT3 times for a price cheaper than the Cayman GT4. But quick lap times aren't really the point of the GT4, are they ... On the topic of tyres, in my opinion most of the gains in lap times between new and old models as well as "budget" and "expensive" trim are from tyre technology these days. Companies and reviewers are using tyres to change the times at their own discresion because nobody seems to question which tyres were used. It's the same with carbon ceramic brakes. The sportauto 911 comparison had the regular C2S on Pirellis with steel brakes and the GTS on Super Sports with carbon ceramics... coincidence? I think not. Put every car on the list on the same rubber and do it again, the picture would be quite different and without a doubt far less effective for the marketing department. The fact that Porsche only honors warranty for older cars when they run older tyre designs really says it all. Edited by EricE on Monday 23 February 10:27

So other than similar costs they pit two cars against each other with monumental HP/Torque figures differences??? Why not test the GTS against another Euro car? However, that said didn't they test and M3 against an i8 last week two completely different cars and what £40K difference? TG never does a level playing field test to be fair.

Freakuk said: So other than similar costs they pit two cars against each other with monumental HP/Torque figures differences??? Why not test the GTS against another Euro car? However, that said didn't they test and M3 against an i8 last week two completely different cars and what £40K difference? TG never does a level playing field test to be fair. Thought that was the point, it was a case of heres £65k to spend, this is what you could get and heres an alternative left field choice thats awesome?

Bring back Tony Mason ; I want a car prog not another light entertainment waste of time

Bring back Tony Mason ; I want a car prog not another light entertainment waste of time

bcr5784 said: While I don't have much (normally not any) time for Top Gear, if there is any relevance in their tests, it begs the question of whether the Corvette is faster than a GT4 as well. And if it was how many potential GT4 owners would cancel their orders? Very few, I suspect, if only because most of their other halves would baulk at co-habiting with a lap dancer.... Someone will always have a faster car. Not buying a car because it's not the fastest is pointless willy measuring. I'll be very interested to see how many GT4's end up on the track and how many become garage queens in that respect. It's built as a track car. Timing, to a degree is irrelevant because it's NOT a race car. Which is the only time timing actually matters. People put far, far to much relevance on how fast a car is and have forgotten that outright speed is not the only, or even the most important consideration when it comes to how much fun and how satisfying a car is to drive. Which is why the market is awash with insanely quick, stupidly capable and ultimately unsatisfying road cars. The GT4 at least has purpose, and I love that they've not concentrated on the figures. I genuinely hope that puts the willy measurers off, so the people who are lucky enough to be able to afford one, buy it and track the s t out of it.

Trotmant said: As for rubber my GTS came with P0's as standard not cup tires, maybe PGB shafted me The GTS doesn't have Cup tyres, it's the GT4 that will have those.

juansolo said: Someone will always have a faster car. Not buying a car because it's not the fastest is pointless willy measuring. I'll be very interested to see how many GT4's end up on the track and how many become garage queens in that respect. It's built as a track car. Timing, to a degree is irrelevant because it's NOT a race car. Which is the only time timing actually matters. People put far, far to much relevance on how fast a car is and have forgotten that outright speed is not the only, or even the most important consideration when it comes to how much fun and how satisfying a car is to drive. Which is why the market is awash with insanely quick, stupidly capable and ultimately unsatisfying road cars. The GT4 at least has purpose, and I love that they've not concentrated on the figures. I genuinely hope that puts the willy measurers off, so the people who are lucky enough to be able to afford one, buy it and track the s t out of it. Agree with much of that, certainly for road cars, though the fact that the Cayman has (until now) always been kept below the 911 in power is precisely because Porsche fear willy measuring - and now by quoting Ring times for the GT4 ARE actually trying to appeal to willy measurers. I certainly don't think for a second that the GT4 will put them off doing that. I think to many GT4 fanciers lap times will be a consideration (even if they can't match them themselves). In any case performance is AN issue on the track. A standard 125bhp Caterham is great fun on the road, but gets rather lost down Hanger Straight. My Cayman S feels much much slower or the track than on the road, so straight line performance is a factor. But it's the balance between power/grip/delicacy that is important (for fun). Whether the GT4 has got that right remains to be seen. But the point remains that the Americans are really starting to get their act together when it comes to handling, and can now be taken seriously (especially when VFM is in the equation).

This is true. They'll still not make it RHD which ultimately shags it here. I still stand by that if you take that 125hp Caterham and stick s tty narrow tyres on it then try to drive it properly, you'll have every bit as much fun as the guy in the R500 with sequential box on slicks. You'll be going nowhere near as fast. But your power to grip ratio will keep you plenty busy/entertained. Straights just give you a bit of time to relax

sootyvrs said: I noticed the paddles on a manual car! I could only think that they saved costs by not developing 2 steering wheels for manual and auto so stuck the same one on manual which for a £65k car is disappointing! On cars with manual transmissions, the paddles are used to enable/disable the auto-rev matching. Though yes, not having two steering wheels is an old-school GM move if there ever was one.

lemmingjames said: Thought that was the point, it was a case of heres £65k to spend, this is what you could get and heres an alternative left field choice thats awesome? Agreed, thought it was a great comparison if not terribly well executed. The more competition and variety available the better.

Goofnik said: On cars with manual transmissions, the paddles are used to enable/disable the auto-rev matching. Though yes, not having two steering wheels is an old-school GM move if there ever was one. That is horrendous. I would hate having the paddles there with a manual box. Juansolo were you on the Mr2roc per chance?

straightsixmik said: That is horrendous. I would hate having the paddles there with a manual box. Juansolo were you on the Mr2roc per chance? A long, long time ago, yes! Been through several cars since the MR2. Good forum MR2ROC pleasant lack of BS (at least back in the day).

Ah! So was I - username MRmike! Small world

straightsixmik said: Ah! So was I - username MRmike! Small world Ha, it is indeed! *doffs cap*

EricE said: It's the same with carbon ceramic brakes. The sportauto 911 comparison had the regular C2S on Pirellis with steel brakes and the GTS on Super Sports with carbon ceramics... coincidence? I think not. Carbon ceramics won't make any meaningful improvement in lap time. They may improve consistency in some cases.

The Corvette, I have to agree, is an eye-catcher. Very striking looks However, the premise of the piece was the CGTS and Stingray are similar in price. But they are not. The base price of the Corvette, before any configuring, is 65.5k. That's over 10k more than a Cayman GTS sub 1.22 is a quick time, faster than a lot of very expensive cars, including Ford GT & Merc SLS Edited by BGHughes on Tuesday 24th February 20:16

BGHughes said: The Corvette, I have to agree, is an eye-catcher. Very striking looks However, the premise of the piece was the CGTS and Stingray are similar in price. But they are not. The base price of the Corvette, before any configuring, is 65.5k. That's over 10k more than a Cayman GTS sub 1.22 is a quick time, faster than a lot of very expensive cars, including Koenigsegg and Zonda Configure a GTS to the same level (if you can) and you'll find the Stingray is a similar price and probably better value.

bcr5784 said: Configure a GTS to the same level (if you can) and you'll find the Stingray is a similar price and probably better value. I hadn't looked before, the Corvette has quite a nice basic spec - excellent value for the money STINGRAY COUPE • 19" front and 20" rear silver-painted alloys • 6.2 litre V8 engine • 466 PS, 630 Nm of torque • 7 speed manual transmission • Magnetic Selective Ride Control • Performance Handling Package • Head-Up Display • Drive Mode Selector • Full leather upholstery • Rear view camera • Navigation system Option

dtriggs said: Of course it is a relevant comparison - 2 seater sports cars of similar price ! How else would you decide on a comparison ? But it was actually impressive how close the Cayman was in both drag race and lap time. When you take into account residuals, interior etc the Corvette really doesnt figure for most people I imagine. +1

dtriggs said: Of course it is a relevant comparison - 2 seater sports cars of similar price ! How else would you decide on a comparison ? But it was actually impressive how close the Cayman was in both drag race and lap time. When you take into account residuals, interior etc the Corvette really doesnt figure for most people I imagine. +1

But the Vette is probably the more interesting car.

What's not to like:

All personal taste....I find the Vette has terribly vulgar styling and would feel a bit silly driving it around the UK roads. Better suited to Route 66, I feel....

FrankCayman said: All personal taste....I find the Vette has terribly vulgar styling and would feel a bit silly driving it around the UK roads. Better suited to Route 66, I feel.... I feel much the same about the GT4's rear wing. Interesting that TG preferred the looks of Corvette, categorising the Cayman as dowdy (librarian). Personally think that the standard Cayman has very tasteful styling. All depends on whether you want to make a STATEMENT or not. Personally I'd rather not and prefer something innocuous looking that goes like stink. (I've always rather fancied an ex John Haugland Skoda or one of those 135bhp Austin A35s.)

Despite the Top Gear antics (they are a light entertainment show after all) I actually think the CGTS came out of the comparison rather well. Had it been a PDK using Sports Plus and launch control the drag race would have had an entirely different result, and possibly also the lap time. Not too shabby for a car with a 125HP deficit!

koorby said: Despite the Top Gear antics (they are a light entertainment show after all) I actually think the CGTS came out of the comparison rather well. Had it been a PDK using Sports Plus and launch control the drag race would have had an entirely different result, and possibly also the lap time. Not too shabby for a car with a 125HP deficit! + 1

I also think they are trying a bit harder to sell themselves (Top Gear) to the American Market, they have attracted a good number of 'A' list celebs of late. The GTS did what it was supposed to do for this comparison. If I lived in the US I would have one or a Mustang, and would probably even accept calling it a Vette or Stang. Naughty librarian is fine with me.

I know it's a well worn topic but when watching the comparison of the Corvette and the new Cayman I was left thinking - as ever - what might be possible if Porsche weren't so fixated on preserving their halo car's status. IME the Cayman is such a perfectly refined car, save for the power output. It isn't bad, but I can't shake the feeling that it could easily be knocking on the door of 400-420+ BHP without any compromises being made.

FrankCayman said: All personal taste....I find the Vette has terribly vulgar styling and would feel a bit silly driving it around the UK roads. Better suited to Route 66, I feel.... I concur.

Durzel said: I know it's a well worn topic but when watching the comparison of the Corvette and the new Cayman I was left thinking - as ever - what might be possible if Porsche weren't so fixated on preserving their halo car's status. IME the Cayman is such a perfectly refined car, save for the power output. It isn't bad, but I can't shake the feeling that it could easily be knocking on the door of 400-420+ BHP without any compromises being made. Porsche have started to "promote" the status of the Boxster / Cayman with the GT4.....