GT4 to 'RS too... - Page 4 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Well I've made my mind up. As many will know I have massively over-serviced whilst regularly tracking and modifying my 981 GT4 which was one of the very first cars with the advantage of the splined third gear. I have thoroughly enjoyed the journey and have deliberately kept all the original components that have been exchanged ... but after eight+ years I felt that it was time for a change. I had always thought that the logical next step was a GT4RS ... the car that Porsche would never sell me, once secondhand prices dropped down towards list prices. Before Christmas this had happened and dealers were very keen to close a cash sale before the end of the year and I came whisker close to buying a red GT4RS at Porsche Edinburgh who were very straight with me, but ... 1. Even at list price the car was £25k over the new car that I would have specified for myself 2. I do have some hearing loss and I worried about exacerbating this in a GT4RS 3. The GT4RS still has limitations with the rear suspension when compared to a GT3 ... and it also has limited down force, ... I want more in the next experience of my track car ownership 4. Build numbers / residuals ... are they still going to build 7000 of them ? So I went hunting with the negotiating advantage of the December deadline ... 992 GT3 (?) ... I didn't like the less traditional interior ... and there are so many around / residuals ... manual would be nice but maybe not on an even faster track car ... 992 GT3RS (?) not an option for so many reasons ... so no to the 992. Next up was the 991.2 GT3 RS ... very few around without Weissach which I didn't want, but I managed to find a one owner 2018 non-Weissach car with one owner, full OPC service history, 7500 miles and front tyres dated week 40 / 18. Even better it carried the approved warranty which extended this to June 2026 and all the other advantages of an approved car ... new tyres / service / mot etc. It was an SOR car and the original owner and the OPC were amazing in helping me to make it happen with a committed deposit on the 30th December and completion mid January once my source investments had been liquidated ... hopefully earlier. This should keep me happy and out of trouble for another eight years when hopefully I won't be in line for an upgrade to an off-road wheelchair ?? Question ... what to do with my modified GT4 ? Surely not to return it to standard ? The journey in full ....

Thats some advert.....

Watching with interest

awesome spec. Maybe RPM or JZM would be able to shift it fairly quickly?

Congratulations on your journey to the 3 RS Your sorted 981 Gt4 will make a fantastic buy for someone looking for such a car. Edited by GT4P on Friday 5th January 16:44

ImbackYo said: Thats some advert..... It's a question before I can think about selling it ... to sell as modified or to return it to standard and sell the bits ? The only thing I probably wouldn't change is the engine tune and the revised gearing and lightweight clutch and flywheel ... revised gearing herewith as previously posted:

ChrisW. said: It's a question before I can think about selling it ... to sell as modified or to return it to standard and sell the bits ? The only thing I probably wouldn't change is the engine tune and the revised gearing and lightweight clutch and flywheel ... I think you've got to try to see if it can go as a built car + all the original bits as part of the package - as you don't need/want to be just hosting those spares if they are no good to you. Tricky thing as ever, will be pricing, as you know the build cost - but you aren't going to be able to reclaim a lot of that in this market tbh... You have to look at the comparables... RPM Technik have a 718 GT4 Clubsport with LWFW + revised gearing, an aftermarket exhaust and MR arm kit now down to 89k - and that has been there for 6months. Also are you sure-sure you want to let it go?

Thanks T ... The new car has an OPC warranty until 6/26 which I'd rather like to retain. There is nothing wrong with the steel brakes but let's see how long they last ? The F1R wheels would I imagine be quite an easy sale if somebody wanted the cheapest car ... and I do have the original PCCB's with 9000 miles on them which could go back on the car. The alternative could be to let the 944 Turbo Cup go ... but there is something really lovely about that ... I do ask myself if it might be fun to run the two side by side making it easier to keep the GT3 completely standard which is really what I should do. Everybody worries about modified cars because they have been modified for a reason ... all I can say is that with 34,000 miles on the clock the car rarely has more than 200ml of oil added between 3000-4000 mile oil changes and the DFI engine is renowned in the GT4 Clubsports for running three years racing and being stripped to discover only that there was nothing to do ... I guess it will be very interesting to get opinions on all this ... in Germany there are no such hang-ups !

Your price will be very interesting to me owner of a 28k 981 GT4 Manthey Racing registered conversion (MR wing, KW suspension, brake lines, seats) - Cargraphics headers, Akra exhaust system and Dundon intake. I too have kept all my bits but I fear Chris that a buyer will still see a £70k ceiling on our cars.....so maybe back to standard - STs on the GT3 RS and sell the other parts to another track rat, the suspension itself is awesome. R

I think that's where I saw the car without the FIR wheels and ST discs ... but for anybody wanting a manual "GT4RS" ... ?? With everything £80k should be a bargain ... but ???

Actually, wouldn't you just move your existing ST rotors to the new 3rs (is it a pccb car btw or steels as your post implies?) and fit the 'old' original ceramics back to the gt4 when selling?

isaldiri said: Actually, wouldn't you just move your existing ST rotors to the new 3rs (is it a pccb car btw or steels as your post implies?) and fit the 'old' original ceramics back to the gt4 when selling? This is what i’d do. Not sure of the cost to change the bells/hats for 3RS fitment. But surely worthwhile looking at. But really it doesn’t really ‘need’ anything, just a nice alignment and good to go. Save the rest of money for actually running the damn thing lol.

I told a lie… If the car didnt have OEM Porsche Mag wheels, i’d also splurge for a second of wheels… namely Manthey/BBS WEC Mag Forged. I much prefer these to the OEM Mag wheel… WEC wheel has a slightly beefier design… and I’d prioritise these over doing a steel to ST conversion in the first instance, and just do pads, fluid and lines.

The discs fit, it's just the cost of the bells for centre-locks and possibly the odd spacer ... from a warranty perspective the discs can just be replaced when the car goes in to the OPC ... Regarding mags .. an 11.2kilo weight saving but at what ? cost ??? F1r's saved this at a cost of around £8k from memory ... Good suggestions ... thanks.

There is a 991 RS fitment for FI-R Edited by TDT on Friday 5th January 21:49

looks like a lovely GT3 RS

BBS FI-Rs anytime over the mag options imo. Very minor weight disadvantage but far far less hassle of not having a mag wheel (and that's even discounting the lower cost).....

I'd ask RPM or 911 Virgin to sell yours modified there will be someone out there for it. Great swap congrats.

The UV RS isn't mine ... but I think I've found a great car on a fair deal. I'll post pics once it arrives. Agreed on the F1R's ... the mags are an "amazing" price Thanks all, opinions appreciated !!

Chris all this talk and no pics,come on,congrats.I hope you jell better with your rs than i did with my rswp etc. Why do folk fall to changing brake lines,dampers ,mag wheels etc for street cars unless competing,or you just want to spend on it,great marketing going on. Just have a good geo on it,good tyres and enjoy it,and dont mess around with it

Yellow491 said: Why do folk fall to changing brake lines,dampers ,mag wheels etc for street cars unless competing,or you just want to spend on it,great marketing going on. Just have a good geo on it,good tyres and enjoy it,and dont mess around with it Hey, hey! lol … Tbf i did actually start off by saying exactly the same thing … TDT said: But really it doesn’t really ‘need’ anything, just a nice alignment and good to go. Save the rest of money for actually running the damn thing lol. Just got a bit excited for Chris and his journey and the possibilities. All fun.

ChrisW. said: The UV RS isn't mine ... but I think I've found a great car on a fair deal. I'll post pics once it arrives. Agreed on the F1R's ... the mags are an "amazing" price Thanks all, opinions appreciated !! I have a set of FI-R's that I took off my Weissach car. I don't think I will fit them on my 992 RS so I will most likely sell them...

TDT said: Yellow491 said: Why do folk fall to changing brake lines,dampers ,mag wheels etc for street cars unless competing,or you just want to spend on it,great marketing going on. Just have a good geo on it,good tyres and enjoy it,and dont mess around with it Hey, hey! lol … Tbf i did actually start off by saying exactly the same thing … TDT said: But really it doesn’t really ‘need’ anything, just a nice alignment and good to go. Save the rest of money for actually running the damn thing lol. Just got a bit excited for Chris and his journey and the possibilities. All fun. these cars are brilliant out of the box with a geo after all has settled down, just think of all those proffesional engineers and R&D that go into these cars,rather than internet engineers. Fair enough if you have rinsed the last second out of the car on a track day,and you then need to find some improvements to make you happy,which will probably be just a new set of tyres;)

Well done Chris - I think you made the right choice given your concerns. You will love it. There is huge difference between what you have now and the incoming RS driving wise. That smile is only going to get bigger !! I`d get RPM to sell yours as is first. They seem to have a few track focussed cars that come and go so they must have a suitable customer base that tolerates upgrades and modifications. Putting it back to standard is always a faff but its an option if you NEED to do it. Unfortunately , even if you go back to standard it still wont have an OPC dealer history which some will want. Everything will sell at the right price and Spring is only round the corner, heck , Opentrack have there their 1st trackday today. I`d cut my losses ( within reason ) for an easy sale so I could concentrate on the new acquisition

Yellow491 said: these cars are brilliant out of the box with a geo after all has settled down, just think of all those proffesional engineers and R&D that go into these cars,rather than internet engineers. Fair enough if you have rinsed the last second out of the car on a track day,and you then need to find some improvements to make you happy,which will probably be just a new set of tyres;) I see this regularly in the bike track world. Always makes me chuckle, a BSB spec r1m, usually a brit being whooped by a Spaniard on an old R6 held together with gaffer tape. I've never got out of my RS and said, oooh it needs more xyz. I Always think, I could of improved on AB and C. Mine has a brilliant Geo and thats it. Perfect for track days. Unnecessary bling imo.

Yellow491 said: TDT said: Yellow491 said: Why do folk fall to changing brake lines,dampers ,mag wheels etc for street cars unless competing,or you just want to spend on it,great marketing going on. Just have a good geo on it,good tyres and enjoy it,and dont mess around with it Hey, hey! lol … Tbf i did actually start off by saying exactly the same thing … TDT said: But really it doesn’t really ‘need’ anything, just a nice alignment and good to go. Save the rest of money for actually running the damn thing lol. Just got a bit excited for Chris and his journey and the possibilities. All fun. these cars are brilliant out of the box with a geo after all has settled down, just think of all those proffesional engineers and R&D that go into these cars,rather than internet engineers. Fair enough if you have rinsed the last second out of the car on a track day,and you then need to find some improvements to make you happy,which will probably be just a new set of tyres;) Now obviously mag wheels are essential for the Kings Road I agree P, my Touring I run a decent geo with RS top mounts different pad and that's it. The car is fantastic, and more than good enough for my ageing abilities. All power to guys like TDT and ChrisW for modding, I did if for years and it's a great journey. Nice to have the options.

Yellow491 said: Why do folk fall to changing brake lines,dampers ,mag wheels etc for street cars unless competing,or you just want to spend on it,great marketing going on. Why do folk fall to changing up to the next new shiny GT car? It's pretty much the same thing I'd have thought - no one needs a more powerful quicker street car as outside of the traffic light grand prix, there isn't all that much competition either. One does it because...well one can and it might be something more to your liking - similar to changing wheels/dampers etc or indeed going further as some have for more major engine etc work.....

great point. Value is in the eye of the beholder... and so is beauty. ultimately, it's because you want and you can. Full stop.

Congrats Chris, pics are needed as everyone else says…what colour did you go for?

Many thanks all, with the 30 months of warranty I will be very happy at east initially to keep it standard. It's white by the way ... which for my taste is a plus The modifications process on the GT4 started as a defensive process to avoid wearing the shoulders off half worn front tyres ... same with the PCCB brake pads to half worn lasting three to four track days ... and the mods solved both issues. Porsche wouldn't sell me a 718GT4 so that justified the engine tune, KW-3 ways were done as part and parcel of ongoing suspension work ... and they also made significant difference. The GT3RS has steels and all the above covered from the start ... I won't be changing wheels so no need for a spare set ... I'll run on PS2Cups permanently (we raced on PS Cups in all weathers in the Club Championship before Pirelli provided sponsorship) ... so my OPC will be seeing far more of me and i can ask them about the ST's if the steels prove expensive ... Now I have to learn the experience of real downforce ... I guess that will be really handy through Craners where 108 was the max I could see in the GT4 without ending up uncomfortably off-line for the old hairpin ... so a new adventure which a GT4RS would not have made possible. In fact, I was very surprised to see that even getting the best track-geo requires a chassis upgrade on the GT4RS ... go figure. Any suggestions for a good Geo in the York area ? ?? P.S. Pics will follow .... thanks again.

elitedetailer said: ChrisW. said: The UV RS isn't mine ... but I think I've found a great car on a fair deal. I'll post pics once it arrives. Agreed on the F1R's ... the mags are an "amazing" price Thanks all, opinions appreciated !! I have a set of FI-R's that I took off my Weissach car. I don't think I will fit them on my 992 RS so I will most likely sell them... Do you a swap for great set of Surface Transforms ?? Or PCCB's ??? Why not email me ?

For what it’s worth I think you have made the right call. As soon as the novelty of the engine and box wore off in a 4RS you are left with the same compromised chassis as in your GT4. Too stiff for road driving and still too fidgety at the rear on the track. All due to the fundamental design of the rear suspension. What you have now is almost as good a powertrain and a much more capable suspension. Along with better road manners. Win win. My choice would be a 992GT3 just for the double wishbone front end. It’s the only GT3 that has really given me a dusting over in the R8 on track. I really struggle to keep with them when they are well driven. In the end I am happy just to keep my R8 and enjoy the V10 soundtrack.

Sometimes wish there was a Like button on this forum. 4RS is still built to a price and position in the hierarchy. But i said before… its now no holds barred for Chris. The Proper change for a different experience.

Chris, Your GT4 sounds a really well thought out spec and whilst I agree, you won't make the money back spent on mods, it is the type of car I would buy as is, so would try RPM or JZM or get a decent advert and put on CC, maybe?

Many thanks Now I will need to take it steady and build up my understanding of a new car ... exciting and no heroics As a matter of purely academic interest I have been looking at the weights of the standard forged alloys and it would appear that they are very similar to F1R's ... it's not easy to find this information but IPE MFR-01 mags are said to save 13.8 kilos (35%) of the weight of the standard forged alloys ... hence one can deduce that the forged alloys should weigh 39.5 kilos ish. The F1R's weigh in at 37.2 kilos .... The Weissach Mags save 11.5 kilos of the weight of the standard wheels ... around 30%, which would confirm IPE's claim that their mags are lighter even than the Weissach mags ...

Just researching….. lol.

ChrisW. said: As a matter of purely academic interest I have been looking at the weights of the standard forged alloys and it would appear that they are very similar to F1R's ... it's not easy to find this information but IPE MFR-01 mags are said to save 13.8 kilos (35%) of the weight of the standard forged alloys ... hence one can deduce that the forged alloys should weigh 39.5 kilos ish. The F1R's weigh in at 37.2 kilos .... The Weissach Mags save 11.5 kilos of the weight of the standard wheels ... around 30%, which would confirm IPE's claim that their mags are lighter even than the Weissach mags ... Uh....Think IPE's maths might be a tad off. Or they are (conveniently) quoting the highest % of the wheel that saves the most weight rather than as a package. The OEM standard wheels are ~45kg. Definitely so for the .1 and iirc, no change in part numbers for the .2rs. There is no way OE ali wheels are 39-40kg imo. The weissach mags are I think a bit under 35kg. IPE might well be a bit lighter than those (like the BBS WEC ones) but at some point....you give up weight for something....

So maybe the F1R's save 7Kg's ish ? And the mags only another 5Kg's ish ?? It would be nice to have some real figures ...

993rsr said: Yellow491 said: TDT said: Yellow491 said: Why do folk fall to changing brake lines,dampers ,mag wheels etc for street cars unless competing,or you just want to spend on it,great marketing going on. Just have a good geo on it,good tyres and enjoy it,and dont mess around with it Hey, hey! lol … Tbf i did actually start off by saying exactly the same thing … TDT said: But really it doesn’t really ‘need’ anything, just a nice alignment and good to go. Save the rest of money for actually running the damn thing lol. Just got a bit excited for Chris and his journey and the possibilities. All fun. these cars are brilliant out of the box with a geo after all has settled down, just think of all those proffesional engineers and R&D that go into these cars,rather than internet engineers. Fair enough if you have rinsed the last second out of the car on a track day,and you then need to find some improvements to make you happy,which will probably be just a new set of tyres;) Now obviously mag wheels are essential for the Kings Road I agree P, my Touring I run a decent geo with RS top mounts different pad and that's it. The car is fantastic, and more than good enough for my ageing abilities. All power to guys like TDT and ChrisW for modding, I did if for years and it's a great journey. Nice to have the options. Absolutely nice to have the options,i am not knocking folk that do modifications ,i am still at it with the racers,but i dont think i have ever modified any of my pure road cars,dampers,exhaust etc as porsche know best. Learnt a lesson years ago on the 993rs fitted jrz tripples,messed with them for 2 years,refitted the standard set up and regained all the time i lost and more against the clock. If its for performance gains,rinse what you have first then you can make educated decisions on whats best for you rather than marketing clap trap.I had tractive say we can make your hillclimber quicker,”oh really,well lets fit them,i will buy them if that’s true,if not you have them back” funny enough i am still running the xtec dampers and springs and no trial! Have a great day at bicester,shame i could not get a ticket,having bust my but to get the 2.8 finished.

Thanks for the feedback ... all good. And good luck P with the 2.8 ... it must be a passionate business pushing the "old girl" so hard

Was it the white one at East London Chris? I reckon you will have got that for a keen price

Yes, do you know the car ? What did you go for in the end ?? Edited by ChrisW. on Sunday 7th January 16:50

ChrisW. said: Yes, do you know the car ? What did you go for in the end ?? Edited by ChrisW. on Sunday 7th January 16:50 Sadly I don’t know it, I guess white wasn’t for me so I never viewed the car (even though it was the closest one to me!). I bet it was ruled out by a few due to the lack of PCCB’s but you’re all over this! I purchased a lizard green one, budget went right out the window…bought from an OPC closer to you!

Nice ! I ended up doing a comparison of the GT4RS to 991.2 GT3RS ... noise / size / gearing / downforce / numbers / etc and I looked at what I would rather take from my existing car than buy ... and to be fair there wasn't much choice. On the other hand I was also willing to wait for GT4RS prices to fall ... but by the time I had finished my comparison the GT4RS wasn't what I really wanted. As mentioned there were a lot of discounts in the market and the OPC and owner were willing to help to make the deal happen, and we ended up agreeing on what I had in ISA's and premium Bonds ... I feel very excited at the change in direction ... but of course now have the GT4 less the Surface Transforms and some of the bits which people want ... to find a "somebody like me" who will love it for what it has become. Despite a few spins it's still original panels and paint ... PPF'd on the front facing surfaces ... and I just need to keep the new car on the black stuff ... Are you planning on doing trackdays ? Or loving it for what it is on the road ?

I have no doubt someone will love your GT4, the market may be smaller but there will be that person that will appreciate the work and money invested in the car. I think it’ll be mainly road, I have so much learn as it’s my first foray into Porsche. Probably start at Bedford at some point and take it slowly. I’ve not been on track for a few years and I used to have TD insurance but this time around I didn’t go with a specialist.

That's a surprise Chris, didn't think you'd change out of the GT4. What a mega spec, I wish the time was right for me as I'd snap it up but it just isn't. Congrats on the new car and with a whole new journey to enjoy. Hopefully see you on track at some point this year

Well, home at last ... herewith a quick pic of the car tucked away ...

ChrisW. said: Well, home at last ... herewith a quick pic of the car tucked away ... Beautiful

Brilliant Chris! Any movements on the GT4?

ChrisW. said: Well, home at last ... herewith a quick pic of the car tucked away ... Beautiful

Thanks ! I think I've decided that the car should go complete ... the F1R's will be on a hillclimb car this year (not me !) and I may or may not transfer the ST's onto the new car ... but a set of F1R's on the GT3 could be a better move if this leaves the 30 months of extended warranty intact ! If the OPC benefits from a few extra pad and disc changes ... in the big scheme of things that's not a massive hardship ... I'm probably showing the car to somebody on Thursday ...

Nice one Chris. Looks well. Exciting new journey ahead.

Thanks T, A new learning curve

Great looking car Chris. Do you have any pics and spec on your GT4? I remember seeing it at the Motorist and chatting briefly to you, but didn’t take it all in properly.

The history of the car is at the start of this post ... I'm trying to work out whether to put it back to standard and sell the bits or sell as-is and sell the original bits which I have ... I'm leaning towards leaving the car in modified form ...

Very nice. Will you be showing it off at the Nurburgsingh meet in March?

That's a long way for me ... so probably not ...

Congratulations Chris. Looking forward to my first p/x ride in it

ChrisW. said: Well, home at last ... herewith a quick pic of the car tucked away ... congrats, stunning car!

How are you getting on with the 3RS Chris?

Thanks for the question ... only done around 350 miles in it so far ... summer tyres and all that. It's booked in to get the new harnesses and fire extinguisher fitted in a couple of weeks ... OPC's are booking a way ahead, and I'll get the PCCB's from the GT4 tested on their Carboteq device at the same time. Then for the first proper day out to the RS Day at Oulton A new learning experience ... how about you ? Edited by ChrisW. on Tuesday 6th February 18:23

I’ve only done around 150 miles so far, am genuinely interested to know your thoughts as you have a history of the marque and I’m very much learning the car! Glad you’re ’doing it right’ with its first proper outing! I’ll get on track at some point but it’s quite the mental hurdle going on track with a car of this value….