Running costs for a 15 year old 996 - Page 4 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Afternoon, I'm considering a 1998 996 3.4 Tiptronic with 100k on the clock for just shy of £10k. Insurance is around the £600 mark so that's ok but how common do you lucky owners find horrendous service bills, engine refreshes and so on? My heart's telling me to buy but the tight-arse monkey part of my head thinks I'll be spending £5k a year on engine and suspension work. Any real-life experience to warn me off? thanks Spanky.

spanky3 said: Afternoon, I'm considering a 1998 996 3.4 Tiptronic with 100k on the clock for just shy of £10k. Insurance is around the £600 mark so that's ok but how common do you lucky owners find horrendous service bills, engine refreshes and so on? My heart's telling me to buy but the tight-arse monkey part of my head thinks I'll be spending £5k a year on engine and suspension work. Any real-life experience to warn me off? thanks Spanky. Have you done your research on the M96 engine? If not, I suggest you have a root around as that may give you an idea of what to (potentially) expect to replace on a 100k tiptronic 996.

Hi, thanks for the quick reply. I've read a bit about issues with the first water-cooled engine but not sure know how big a problem it is in reality. As an example I've owned a couple of 2 litre BMWs with the 'infamous' N47 engine without issue - I always wonder if problems like that appear to be more common than they are as only angry customers post on forums. I'll do some more reading and see if it scares me off,...or makes me look for something air-cooled.

Have you read the poverty pork thread yet? http://www.pistonheads.com/GASSING/topic.asp?h=0&a... The 996 sounds a bit dear, but it might be a great example. Things like rads, condensers and coil packs are possible expenses. I did those plus clutch and DMF on one of my 996s. Get a sorted one and you'll be ok for a few years. Find someone to help you look after it.

I ran mine (996 C2 Manual) from 98,000miles to 126,000miles in circa 18 months and the expenses have been: Discs and pads (300) - front Discs and pads (220) - rear IMS bearing replacement with oil change and Pelican Parts bearing (500 all in) 2 front tyres (200) Falken, very good 1 light bulb (7.99 Halfords, rip off) Major service @ OPC Porsche (399 fixed cost) then MOT and insurance. I hope this helps. FYI, the best car I have ever had and I will never sell it. (Now it's in storage until I move back to the UK) edited to add (Miles instead of KM) - Sorry for not using the pound sign but my keyboard does not have it. Edited by stuckmojo on Friday 20th June 03:27

It's worth spending a bit of time finding a nice car which the current owner has done all the jobs on. - IMS - Rads - Brakes and pads - Tyres Worth getting an independent inspection as a few issues will cost you far more than the cost of the inspection and you can always use it to negotiate on the price. Plus I'd suggest going for a manual C2 coupe as historically they hold their value best!

The very first 1998 and 1999 M96 cars had a double row IMS bearing and a piston coating that was discontinued. At some point around 2000 Porsche changed to an inferior IMS bearing which has led to all the hoo-ha about IMS bearings blighting the M96. This is evidenced in the US class action case which shows the failure numbers for each year of production. Around the same time the piston coating was changed to an inferior plastic coating (for H&S reasons in production), this inferior coating breaks down more easily and has led to the reputation of the M96 scoring its bores (more prevalent on the 3.6). So the earliest appear to have the most robust engines, however these are all likely 100k+ miles by now, and an engine of that mileage could fail for any number of reasons (chain tensioners worn etc) so go into ownership with you eyes open. The M96 is an utterly fantastic engine - I drive a 1999 3.4 on 117k. FYI I do all my own servicing and repair work and I have spent £1800 in a year getting my car perfect (suspension refresh etc) but the initial cost of the car reflected this. I don't expect to spend any more for a while. The 996 makes a lot of sense - a lot of parts are shared with the Boxster and then sold millions of them. This means parts prices are MUCH cheaper than previous Porsches, inline with mass produced cars. Edited by was8v on Friday 20th June 09:56

g7jhp said: It's worth spending a bit of time finding a nice car which the current owner has done all the jobs on. - IMS - Rads - Brakes and pads - Tyres Worth getting an independent inspection as a few issues will cost you far more than the cost of the inspection and you can always use it to negotiate on the price. Plus I'd suggest going for a manual C2 coupe as historically they hold their value best! - suspension arms, dampers, droplinks, aircon condensers

Some links to backup what I said: M96.1 (3.4 cars) have a more robust dual row rather than single row IMS bearing: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=87529&highlig... Piston coating (see bazhart from hartech's posts): http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=90714 bazhart said: What he did not mention is that apart from a very small production run of forged pistons with ferrous coatings (the coatings that were on all the cast pistons and that never caused bore scoring) all subsequent forged pistons had a "plastic" screen printed coating that is non metallic in M96 and M97 engines and Cayenne's. The plastic coating applied has a lower surface hardness than a ferrous coating and the bonding to the piston surface is different than an electroplated one and we all know from experiences with coated sauce and frying pans that the bonding life is limited with heat being a contributory factor (which does not affect ferrous coatings the same way). As I say though, an engine can fail for hundreds of reasons, and the 3.4 is not perfect! Early in production they had problems with a few porous blocks leading to "D chunking" of the cylinder wall - however after 15 years and 100k miles that will have shown itself! Inspect well and buy the nicest car you can afford Don't let the internet and "Porsche Paranoia" put you off. Edited by was8v on Friday 20th June 10:16

Hello all, thanks for the useful responses which has given me enough info to do some more reading. I had a read through the 'poverty porker thread' (not all of the 75 pages but most), lots of interesting stuff but still set on a 911 of some sort. My plan is to replace the wife's car with the 996 so we end up with one sensible family car and a 2+2 that I can still pick the kids up in occasionally. I'm also happy doing routine and some not so routine servicing myself so brakes, suspension etc are probably ok although I haven't looked up spares prices yet. It's really the catastrophic engine failure scenario that worries me given I'll only be looking at high milers. An IMS replacement at around £1500 doesn't sound like a bad insurance policy but good advice about trying to find a ready-sorted car. Interesting that the earliest ones are possibly the more robust, too. I'll look into that. thanks all, James.

Just to follow up on the last couple of posts - Stuckmojo, thanks for list of your servicing costs, they look pretty reassuring. Agree about 'Porsche paranoia' - it's easy to get scared off by horror stories but as I said earlier, happy people rarely feel the need to tell their story. And finally - yes, 2d coupe is what I'm after but unfortunately the wife can only (barely) drive an auto. The 320d family car has the towbar for my bike trailer so there will be occasions we have to swap cars - that rules out a manual.

Basic DIY suspension refresh (low control arms and coffin arms) @ £250 and then alignment @ £85. IMS replacement, I had a cylindrical roller bearing and oil pump modification carried out. Since they were removing the exhaust, the exhaust flange gaskets and exhaust clamps/bolts were also replaced with stainless ones. Total cost was £730 (Does NOT include labour to remove engine and gearbox as this was paid for by the warranty company repairing the gearbox). Oil pressure sender - £50 (common failure) Minor service - £235 DIY Low tone horn replacement - £25 (common failure)

Had my 3.4 C2 manual for 5yrs now, I budget £200pm for servicing, maintenance, tyres etc. Just picked it up from local Indie this morning having passed another MoT & with a small service the bill was under £250.00 big 4yr service is about £500 from memory as it needs belts etc. Coolant & brake fluid changed every 2 years as per schedule, probably doesn't need it but I'm quite anal about things like that. In 5yrs it has had: 6 x coilpacks (warranty), 1 x battery, 1 x clutch (£700), header tank (£200ish), waterpump (approx £500), aircon condensors (£500ish), front brakes (£500), 1 x coffin arm (250ish). Two full sets of tyres, rear MPS2's last approx 6k mls, fronts much longer. Just had insurance renewal, £375 before haggling, aged 44 in a good area, kept on drive with full NCD & clean license. Have been advised on MoT it needs exhaust (quoted £1200!), front brake pipes & possibly front brake discs at or before next MoT. Fantastic cars, we have 2 kids aged 13 & 10, they sit in the back for several hours sometimes with no complaints, sure that will start to change as they won't stop growing! I only do 2-2.5k mls per annum, probably double that in the 1st year of ownership.

Hi, thanks for taking the time to reply. That all sounds ok and your situation's not that dissimilar to mine. I do now have a car in mind but am 50/50 on whether its service history is a good thing or not. It's a 1998 Tip C2. Current owner bought it a couple of years ago, took it to a well know specialist and found it wasn't as good as he hoped. The 'sorting it out' bill was about 8k, including uprated IMS bearing, various seals including gearbox ones, various bushes, control arms, drop links, brake pipes, hacksawing through corroded bolts etc, tyres, 96k service etc. The workshop notes mention it having a non-standard exhaust. Part of me looks at the list and thinks 'great, all the bits that wear out have been sorted and anything else I buy will probably need this lot doing to it.' and the other half of me think 'Previous owners neglected it and it will turn into a money pit'. Decisions, decisions.

spanky3 said: Hi, thanks for taking the time to reply. That all sounds ok and your situation's not that dissimilar to mine. I do now have a car in mind but am 50/50 on whether its service history is a good thing or not. It's a 1998 Tip C2. Current owner bought it a couple of years ago, took it to a well know specialist and found it wasn't as good as he hoped. The 'sorting it out' bill was about 8k, including uprated IMS bearing, various seals including gearbox ones, various bushes, control arms, drop links, brake pipes, hacksawing through corroded bolts etc, tyres, 96k service etc. The workshop notes mention it having a non-standard exhaust. Part of me looks at the list and thinks 'great, all the bits that wear out have been sorted and anything else I buy will probably need this lot doing to it.' and the other half of me think 'Previous owners neglected it and it will turn into a money pit'. Decisions, decisions. Try to speak to the specialist & see if they'll give you an honest opinion of it, may need the sellers permission 1st?

I have stacks of paperwork which came with my 2001 car which I put into a spreadsheet for fun(!). Turns out it averages at £1126 per annum (probably more for tyres and other bills too but not everything is recorded). That is excluding the cost for one new engine via Porsche and one engine rebuild of said engine by Hartech! Since the rebuild in early 2012 it has averaged costs of £1800 per year. For a car that has averaged 7000 miles per year. In my year of ownership it has cost me a grand in servicing, MOT and tyres. Are these unusual costs - well other than the engine issues I don't know as this is my first 911. When you put the various invoices into Excel it becomes fairly terrifying, thank god it isn't me that has been footing the bills! Would be interesting to see if anyone else has done similar?

mikeyr said: Since the rebuild in early 2012 it has averaged costs of £1800 per year. For a car that has averaged 7000 miles per year. In my year of ownership it has cost me a grand in servicing, MOT and tyres. Are these unusual costs - well other than the engine issues I don't know as this is my first 911. Would be interesting to see if anyone else has done similar? That's sounds about right. I do 7-8k a year and, though I haven't done a spreadsheet to get exact costs, I reckon my annual costs have been similar, excluding the Hartech rebuild 18 months ago. That includes getting the oil changed every year using Millers Nanograde - expensive stuff at around £75 per 5 litres. Many would consider that overkill but Hartech specify it as a warranty condition and I'm inclined to carry on doing it. I've had a pair of coffin arms replaced and new aircon condensers. I'm not including optional costs in the above estimate (short-shift gearchange, leather refurb) and costs related to the targa roof (water leakage fix, plus expected roof cables replacement in the near/mid future).

Ultimately, it's a high end sports car, so won't come with Ford Fiesta running costs. Take the plunge though, and you soon get wrapped up it's personality and anything you need to spend will be a pleasure as each spend makes it better and will keep it running for a long time. Think of it as an ongoing renovation project, when something breaks or wears out, you'll replace it,so the car gets better and better as it gets older. It's a 911, it'll never age, unlike pretty much everything else, however old it gets, it'll still be a 911,and that means special.

Shurv said: Ultimately, it's a high end sports car, so won't come with Ford Fiesta running costs. Take the plunge though, and you soon get wrapped up it's personality and anything you need to spend will be a pleasure as each spend makes it better and will keep it running for a long time. Think of it as an ongoing renovation project, when something breaks or wears out, you'll replace it,so the car gets better and better as it gets older. It's a 911, it'll never age, unlike pretty much everything else, however old it gets, it'll still be a 911,and that means special. Good point, well made Shurv. I agree with you.

LordHaveMurci said: aircon condensors (£500ish), front brakes (£500), 1 x coffin arm (250ish). These look like OPC prices, I appreciate some people like the car to have full OPC history etc but on the other hand they are reasonably simple if you are handy with a spanner. E.g. A oem quality coffin arm is £70 + DIY fitting + £80 alignment, aftermarket air condensors discussed recomended by another member here are £65 each + £60 regas. I think whether you are going to use OPC, indie or diy should be considered by the op as it makes a huge difference to the running costs.

Had a 996 C2 manual for 5 years. Started with me 8 years old, ended 13yrs old. Mileage went from 40k to 60k in that time. No problems at all. Just tyres, brakes, exhaust, one condenser, a battery plus servicing at a respected indy (which was cheaper than daily hack). Didn't have warranty after the 1st year. Did have the money to pay for an engine rebuild should it let go, but obviously it didn't. It was a great car and thoroughly enjoyed owning it. Never once let me down apart from flat battery after 3 weeks of no use in a cold spell. N

It's one of the easiest cars to service that I have ever owned. Oil and filter, air filter, cabin filter and fluid checks and top ups are all straight forward. An indie air con re-gas costs about £70 on your own driveway. Disc pad changes are easy and so is bulb replacement for back and front. I recently changed an air con rad and condenser with the parts costing just about £70 from an indie source as they are generic. A mass air flow sensor is straight forward to change. Plugs are a bit less straight forward and you might want to book it in for that job. After buying the car I did have some big bills as the coolant reservoir needed changing and so did an alloy coolant return pipe. I had the air/oil separator done at the sane time and also changed the alternator and oil filler tube. My local indie did that at a cost of £1400 all in. A set of four tyres costs about £750 to £800 but you should get 10k from normal motoring. My 996 will do 33mpg but generally the final figure turns out about 27/28mpg. The great thing is it's a 911 and they are always in fashion and they share many common parts with the Boxster, VW and Audi. Good luck H

Hi, I'm completely new to Piston Heads but saw this thread and thought I'd join in. I've had a '99 Carrera 2 Tip for about four or five years. I love it. Best car I've ever bought and I'll never sell it. I have a two kids, 10 and 12 who fit in the back no problem and my wife has used it for the school run. It makes me smile every time I get in it (I drive it daily to the station) and when I want to take it for a blast it's plenty fast enough (though most modern German metal will probably be just as fast). It's now done 93k. And I've lost about £4-5k in value since I bought it. I have spent a fair amount on in it over 4 years. Biggest bill was £1,800 when I first got it and had several bits sorted. Things I've had done are pretty much regular. Coil packs do go, air con condensors and radiators also go. I've had much of the suspension re-bushed. New tyres all round. New MAF sensor. New discs and pads all round. A change of oil at least once a year. A couple of big services. I budget at least £1k a year but it probably costs more like £1.5k. Brake lines usually need looking at at this age. I'll have mine done soon. I'm trying to get the whole car up to scratch but completely original. I'm due to have wheels refurbed and a bonnet respray soon. I'm also thinking of sticking a low temp thermostat in as several owners swear by them. Porsche paranoia does occasionally get to you but honestly, I'm less worried as it's already reached a high mileage, it's an early car, a 3.4 and I've heard tips are also less likely to suffer problems as they are harder to over rev (this could be a myth). My local Porsche Indie also said he hardly ever sees IMF problems despite a huge customer base (though he said he sees more on 997s). Buy it, enjoy it, know that it will cost a bit to run but you get a lot of smiles per pound. It's a special car and to me, the pure shape of the early C2s, without all the frippery of wings etc. is starting to look quite classic.

edh said: g7jhp said: It's worth spending a bit of time finding a nice car which the current owner has done all the jobs on. - IMS - Rads - Brakes and pads - Tyres Worth getting an independent inspection as a few issues will cost you far more than the cost of the inspection and you can always use it to negotiate on the price. Plus I'd suggest going for a manual C2 coupe as historically they hold their value best! - suspension arms, dampers, droplinks, aircon condensers All good advice but would you realistically find one for £10k after all this had been done ???

t08yg01 said: Hi, I'm completely new to Piston Heads but saw this thread and thought I'd join in. I've had a '99 Carrera 2 Tip for about four or five years. I love it. Best car I've ever bought and I'll never sell it. I have a two kids, 10 and 12 who fit in the back no problem and my wife has used it for the school run. It makes me smile every time I get in it (I drive it daily to the station) and when I want to take it for a blast it's plenty fast enough (though most modern German metal will probably be just as fast). It's now done 93k. And I've lost about £4-5k in value since I bought it. I have spent a fair amount on in it over 4 years. Biggest bill was £1,800 when I first got it and had several bits sorted. Things I've had done are pretty much regular. Coil packs do go, air con condensors and radiators also go. I've had much of the suspension re-bushed. New tyres all round. New MAF sensor. New discs and pads all round. A change of oil at least once a year. A couple of big services. I budget at least £1k a year but it probably costs more like £1.5k. Brake lines usually need looking at at this age. I'll have mine done soon. I'm trying to get the whole car up to scratch but completely original. I'm due to have wheels refurbed and a bonnet respray soon. I'm also thinking of sticking a low temp thermostat in as several owners swear by them. Porsche paranoia does occasionally get to you but honestly, I'm less worried as it's already reached a high mileage, it's an early car, a 3.4 and I've heard tips are also less likely to suffer problems as they are harder to over rev (this could be a myth). My local Porsche Indie also said he hardly ever sees IMF problems despite a huge customer base (though he said he sees more on 997s). Buy it, enjoy it, know that it will cost a bit to run but you get a lot of smiles per pound. It's a special car and to me, the pure shape of the early C2s, without all the frippery of wings etc. is starting to look quite classic. Sorry to break this to you but I believe the Tip's are more prone to things like bore scoring than the manuals.

LordHaveMurci said: Sorry to break this to you but I believe the Tip's are more prone to things like bore scoring than the manuals. Oh well, still not going to sell it! I'll just prioritise that low temp thermostat.

All very interesting. In 3 years of ownership my C2 2002 has needed new discs and pads all round, a new water pump, 2 front springs and I've just ordered 2 coffin arms cos I cant stand the creaking any longer! It will need a new exhaust in the foreseeable but not yet. Services always seem to come in at about £250. Insurance is about the same - I am old - tyres last quite well unless you hoon them. Consumption about 28 mpg depending on conditions. This car is no more expensive than my L200, the mustang it replaced, a mercedes C class and sitch like. Plus it's for the most part quite easy to work on. If the engine explodes so be it but I am not gonna worry about it. Can I just add, this car has never used any oil or water - I replaced the pump before it let go - the levels remain rock solid. I might install a low temp thermostat however. Can some kind soul tell me where I can get one. And anyone know how to fit the coffin arms? it looks straightforward but it would be nice to confirm no pitfalls

Coffin arms very easy to fit, access to turn the chassis bolt is a little difficult and you will probably need a ball joint splitter for the hub. I changed the adjoining control arm (£80 for two genuine trw parts on fleabay) at the same time since its only one more bolt. You might as well check the tie rods while your down there and replace if neccesary. The more you can do at one time, the easier it is and then you only have to pay for the tracking once rather than replacing piece by piece and getting the tracking done each time. If you have Xenons/Litronic headlights, just don't do what I did and yank at the coffin arm with the levelling sensor still attached to the nearside coffin arm! First thing to do once the wheel is off is disconnect it from the coffin arm before it gets forgotten (a SNAPPING noise will be the next time its remembered other wise). Andy

Ive been running my 2002 996 gen2 for nearly a year now, using it as a daily driver and its been a superb motor. It had done a whopping 169,000 miles on purchase. Its a tiptronic model and is still on original engine and gearbox. Full Porsche main dealer history and every trip from the previous owner was main dealer at the same Porsche dealer, tyres, mots, everything. This gave me confidence in the car had been looked after by the lady who i bought it off, she bought it 18 months old from the same dealer. Not saying indy serviced cars any worse/better off, just with the very high mileage it made me think it was defo worth a look at. I hope to run the car for £83 per month, (currently at 85.21 per month) you can follow my story so far at... http://www.project3000.co.uk Hope this helps with your search for a 911, 996's are superb value for money, i just think you need to buy a nice well looked after example and you should be fine.

Any 996 could be perfectly reliable, or the engine could grenade at any time (however well maintained/serviced). Simple fact of ownership and something to bear in mind. I had a '99 996 C4 tip for almost 9 years (2001 to 2010). Porsche warranty until it's 10th birthday, full PMDSH. Always driven sympathetically, warmed up, She'll V-Power, no expense spared, etc. It still went pop at 151k miles (bought at 40k miles). Scored bores/ oval cylinders or some such. Anyway, not economical to repair at that age/ mileage. At least I drove the thing and got several years of pleasure from it. Lovely car to drive though - wonderful analogue steering and brake feel, and sublime handling. Still miss it. I would never buy another one though, knowing what I know now about the poor engine design/ risks.

Wouldn't worry too much, I drove a late 3.4L Cab C2 manual as daily from 2001 to 2004, put on 120tkm and only had regular maintenance on the car. Always warm and only good fuel, but I don't spare the car, it took a fair amount of regular abuse, it even saw a few tracks as well. Take your time, narrow cars down and get a specialist to check the car so you know what you go into. Cheap cars will often have lacked maintenance and eventually prove not to be cheap. Good luck with your search and your "new" 911.

Good afternoon, I'm in a similar position to the OP and viewed a 996 Tiptronic convertible yesterday. It's going to be my partners car to replace her Golf so I have to be honest and let her know what we are getting into i.e small risk of engine problems. This particular car we looked at a local dealer is a 2001 with 65k on it. I asked to see the service history and had a brief look through the stack of invoices...all Porsche service apart from last one at a specialist. The previous owners address on the paperwork tells me that she is probably reasonably wealthy and won't have skipped any servicing or remedial work. The fact that it's got 4 decent Continental Contisport tyres with plenty of tread also gives me a positive feeling. Obviously I'm hoping that the previous owner lavished care and attention on it and did not get rid because of the prospect of some hefty bills. The proprietor of the garage won't REALLY know whether it's a great car or not so he's quite happy for me to have it inspected so I guess I can either have it taken to an OPC or find a specialist that can travel to it and use their ramp to inspect it on. I'm guessing the profit in the car for the dealer precludes me negotiating much off if an inspection reveals a long list of required work. It will be more the case we just walk away if it's anything more than minor issues. For the sake of a few hundred pounds potentially saving us from a costly mistake though, I'm more than happy with this. Running costs as described on here sound 'ok' I guess. I had Nissan Skyline GTR for 10 years so have ran a sports car before. Parked next to it at the dealer is a 120k mile 135 m sport convertible BMW which my missus likes also (same price). My point to the dealer is that in 6 years/30k miles time, the BMW is going to be a hard car to sell with that mileage. The 911, however, I can't see getting much cheaper so potentially higher running costs could be offset by the higher value of the car in a few years time. I guess I'm a bit nervous as the missus will be paying for most of it and I'll feel a right git if I recommend a car to her and then it lands her a massive bill. regards Ben

anonymous said: [redacted] Z4 sounds exciting. Yawn.

I've got a tip 996 Cab and, whilst I don't have any experience with a manual Porsche, there are times I wish I had gone the manual route. However, MOST of the time I'm glad it has the auto box as it makes real life trundling around so much more relaxing. If you like the roof down experience (and I'm firmly in the "yes" camp) then a 996 cab offers a nice mix of performance and cruiser. Be intrigued to know how much the one you've seen is up for as I will be selling mine at the end of August after it has one last swansong across Europe - prices seem to vary from suspiciously low to crazily optimistic! If you want an owners perspective I, along with many others, have contributed to plenty of running cost threads on here

Ta for the responses...cmoose, was your car listed on a 911 forum? I'm sure I spotted that username against an advert a few months ago. Any road, we've looked at all the usual suspects i.e Z4's, TT's and my partner has decided she wants a sports car that can occasionally involve the whole family. We have 20 month old twins so the two small rear seats are ideal. We also discounted the C4 due to decreased boot space. If you are prepared to use tyre foam and lose the space saver, the front recess it's actually quite reasonable i.e you could go away for a weekend away once they are out of the buggy. She also wants a convertible and it's her preference to drive an auto. Principally it's going to be her car and she values these criteria above any degradation of driving dynamics which is fine by me. I have a wonderfully communicative Megane RS Cup for trackdays and, dare I say it, a very nice handling Mk1 MX5 for when I want that uninterrupted analogue driving experience. I've spoken to three specialists now and for that early 3.4 engine, two said risks were low and the other accused me of spending too much time on the internet reading horror stories from people who don't actually own the car. Of course though, I am aware of the risk Mike, I've had a read through some of your posts...good info ta. This particular example I'm looking at is up for 13k which seems about right judging by low mileage, it comes with a hardtop and service history looks spot on. Of course, height of summer...prices are at the top end but c'est la vie. Current plan would be to trailer the car to Autostrasse for an inspection as my colleague has his 993 looked after there and rates them very highly. regards Ben

turboslippers said: Current plan would be to trailer the car to Autostrasse for an inspection as my colleague has his 993 looked after there and rates them very highly. I love my 3.4 and after owning it for just under 18 months it's running like an absolute peach. It makes a comfortable and easy daily drive, but when you take it out for a proper run the car is a wonderful experience. Having said that, I've spent a large amount of money on the car during my relatively short ownership. Nothing to do with engine blow ups, just replacing worn, rusted or failed components with their stock equivalents. Only the exhaust back boxes I've spent money on for an upgrade. The point being, many people on the forums speak of the possible engine expenses and forget all the other things that will genuinely cost you much money. A thorough PPI has to be very important, especially as I'm sure there's going to be an increasing number of cars for sale that haven't undergone the expensive routine maintenance these cars can sometimes require.

IknowJoseph said: I love my 3.4 and after owning it for just under 18 months it's running like an absolute peach. It makes a comfortable and easy daily drive, but when you take it out for a proper run the car is a wonderful experience. Having said that, I've spent a large amount of money on the car during my relatively short ownership. Nothing to do with engine blow ups, just replacing worn, rusted or failed components with their stock equivalents. Only the exhaust back boxes I've spent money on for an upgrade. My 3.4 will need new exhausts soon, what did you go for out of interest?

LordHaveMurci said: My 3.4 will need new exhausts soon, what did you go for out of interest? I went for Dansk Sports Stainless, largely because they were recommended by my local (well known) indie, they were well priced and they are a Porsche OEM supplier. The first pair spat out all the wadding quite quickly and became far too loud. Had them replaced under warranty ("We've never seen this before on any of our exhausts sir") and the second pair have been really good. There are louder exhausts available, but I've really come to enjoy the sound mine makes as the boxes have bedded in. I'm told that there's a wait to get the Dansk boxes now as they're unable to keep up with demand, but obviously I've not tried to get another pair since.

anonymous said: [redacted] Ooh, Vanos death by fireball is imminent

IknowJoseph said: I went for Dansk Sports Stainless, largely because they were recommended by my local (well known) indie, they were well priced and they are a Porsche OEM supplier. The first pair spat out all the wadding quite quickly and became far too loud. Had them replaced under warranty ("We've never seen this before on any of our exhausts sir") and the second pair have been really good. There are louder exhausts available, but I've really come to enjoy the sound mine makes as the boxes have bedded in. I'm told that there's a wait to get the Dansk boxes now as they're unable to keep up with demand, but obviously I've not tried to get another pair since. Thanks, have heard of Dansk before, they are on eBay for about £700 I believe. My local Indie has quoted me c£1200 fitted for 'Cargraphic type' exhaust, just need to weigh up my options before shelling out that kind of cash.

anonymous said: [redacted] Big bills, and whatever you do don't Google Z4 engine knock

anonymous said: [redacted] No, planet earth.

LordHaveMurci said: Thanks, have heard of Dansk before, they are on eBay for about £700 I believe. My local Indie has quoted me c£1200 fitted for 'Cargraphic type' exhaust, just need to weigh up my options before shelling out that kind of cash. I was quoted: Dansk Sports silencers £556.00 + VAT Fitting Kit £145.00 + VAT Labour £258.00 + VAT Total fitted inc VAT = £1150.80 Have no experience with Cargraphic, or "Cargraphic type" exhausts, but as I say, am very happy with what I have now. Having said that, there's Milltek boxes available for c.£100 a pair more than the Dansk, which I would have been tempted with if I wasn't already spending enough money on the rest of the car.

anonymous said: [redacted] Would you really take an old 996 to an OPC for an engine problem? Hartech plan, enjoy Don't believe the internet...

anonymous said: [redacted] Hey, it's your residuals you're kicking, fill your boots

Moving slightly back on topic before this descends into another one of THOSE threads... * My top tip for turboslippers (or any new cab owners) is make sure your handbrake is on when trying to open the roof. Parked up for a week or so and left the handbrake off so the brakes didn't bind ... I found myself helplessly pressing my roof button whilst the warning light flashed away at me. It was only an hour or so later (after much wailing and sobbing thinking about repair bills) that I thought to go back and try it again... But then it did take me 6 months to find the "secret" door bins yes, I KNOW it STARTED as one of those threads anyway

Cheers all, yup, the reason for having the inspection is not really engine related as don't think anything bar a look down the bores will tell me much. It's more about, in an experts opinion, which bits need replacing soon i.e exhaust, shocks, bushes, rads etc etc. I can then make a sensible decision on whether to proceed with the purchase. I'm an automotive engineer and reasonably handy so minor things likes brakes etc I can do myself...it's just the fettling/yearly service and other stuff that I'd like to have a specialist I could trust. Yes, of course it COULD blow up and there are a myriad of other cars that are less risky. There are a myriad that are MORE risky as well though. Engine rebuilds on my Skyline GTR weren't exactly cheap either so understand the concept of pain in that area! Mike, thanks, I will pass on this top tip to the missus as, no doubt, I WILL get a phone call from her saying the roof is bust. A bit like the call I got a month ago saying the MX5 was 'dead' outside her gym. After listening to the symptoms (which sounded just like rarely used immobilizer kicked in) I told her to press the arm/disarm on the immobiliser keyfob and it would then start. Nope, it wasn't that...definitely not...not stupid etc etc. So I drove round there, leaned through window, disarmed immobilizer on the fob and started the car. I then got back in my car and drove off without saying anything with the sounds of 'but but but, I did that....' trailing off in the distance..

turboslippers said: drove off without saying anything with the sounds of 'but but but, I did that....' trailing off in the distance..

anonymous said: [redacted] I was only joking

One thing I've noticed with these cars is that (from what I've seen) they are pretty good for lack of rust? I'll admit the first time I Went out in a 996 years ago I was surprised at the road noise and then tapped a few panels, only to realise they are not of the same thickness of a 964...different era of build quality (my mates 993 has THE best door 'clunk' closing noise ever). Haven't seen any 996 with rusty arches though? Same can't be said for the E46 BMW, which has put me off 330's/M3's a bit in the past as a reasonable number seem to succumb to bubbling arches within 10 years. My old E36 328 went that way whilst my Saab 9-5 (or any of my saabs) have never ever shown a hint of rust on the bodywork.

Drove two today...both tiptronic 3.4. First one was a bit 'boring' as totally standard 62k car and i didn't get chance to open it up. Second one was the full 3k carbon pack and gt3 kit, 996 turbo alloys, reversing cameras etc etc. Also had a Jaz exhaust...it sounded outrageous. It also had brand new pirelli p-zero's and pads/discs but the history file with partial engine rebuilt/new gearbox made for uncomfortable reading. It was a very early S/98 996 and it's too risky for me. Also, all the carbon trim was cracking which appears to be common and tap all you can do about it... This other 996 is a very nice (if quite sober) example. Partner is interested as long as it can be 'tweaked' to make special. Amusingly she preferred the 98k S reg one as it wasn't so 'hard work'. What she meant was that it was a bit sloppy around the center. I am still trying to explain that the wonderfully 'darty' steering on the 62k example was a GOOD thing...

I've had quite a few 996 of various specs and my daily driver is a 1999 narrow body C4 3.4. I do a lot of miles and it is also used as the chase car/fire tender when we are testing. To say it gets well used is a bit of an understatement having done 18K miles so far this year. It's not that standard but maybe more importantly for your decision the engine and box is, indeed it's still on it's original clutch at 117K miles. Oil consumption is in the region of 150ml per 1000 miles on 0W/40, I borescoped it in May when it had a big service and all is still fine in there, even on bank 2 where there is scuffing which I consider minimal for the miles (and some would say abuse). The early 3.4 engines do seem to be much, much stronger than the later 3.6, specifically due to the dual row IMS bearing and ferrous piston coating, bore scuffing on the 3.4 with ferrous piston coating is pretty much a none issue vs the 3.6 where it seems to kill the most engines. Biggest expense I find is fuel (at 95 quid a fill as it has the original tank and a 20ltr ATL aux tank), servicing and parts are comparitively dirt cheap and certainly no more than a similar age BMW M or Merc AMG. Mine does run some more expensive than OE 342mm floating rotors but these seem to last 15-20K miles or so with quite aggresive pads hence on a per 1K miles basis are pretty cheap for the performance they provide. I do have the dampers off every year or 20K miles for a quick check over but again if you're on standard bits this is not a requirement and at 80K miles the standard stuff on mine still felt pretty good. Coffin arms and bushes are needed every 100K miles or so (some say sooner), wheel bearings seem to last forever even with big temperatures going into them and in my experience the shells never seem to rust in any major way. M96 lumps do seem to get a fair bit of stick but I've had three M96 powered cars and have done over 150K miles in them in total without any engine issues greater than a coil or MAF. My gear linkage did fall apart yesterday which meant a drive to work this morning with 1st, 3rd and 5th missing but as it was a 5 minute fix and I've now lock wired it to stop it happening again I think I can let it off that - afterall there aren't many 15 year old cars that will do 170mph and that you can pile 750 miles a week on with pretty much zero hassle ;-)

I hate these threads. I always start looking in the classifieds again! Then I stop.... Engine might blow up. Then I start again... Are we saying that the 3.4 is slightly safer then?

5678 said: I always start looking in the classifieds again! If only there was someone selling one with a Hartech rebuild...

Guessing it's a cab? I'd want a coupe unfortunately!

Sadly yes. But you still still go looking in the classifieds right now, plenty of coupes out there!

I've Had my car serviced at a local garage every two years has less than 40k miles runs brilliantly . Thinking of switching into an aircooled 993 or 964 who's best to speak to on these cars ?

mikeyr said: Sadly yes. But you still still go looking in the classifieds right now, plenty of coupes out there! Theres a few potentials near me too. I'm going to speak to Northway about what inspection service they offer.

Good stuff - they seem to have a good rep at Northway so I'm sure they would be a good choice for any inspection.

I keep coming back to this! http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... Never thought I'd like a yellow car though!

5678 said: I keep coming back to this! http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... Never thought I'd like a yellow car though! Hmmmm

Or this... http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...

I don't haaaaaaate it but I'm not sure whether I could live with it. Might be better in the flesh - the black stripe up the back is...err...interesting? Not a lot in the ad about the service history (and seems it is due one!) and with the colour I'd expect a bit of movement on the price. Important thing is if YOU like the colour. If so then go for it!

mikeyr said: I don't haaaaaaate it but I'm not sure whether I could live with it. Might be better in the flesh - the black stripe up the back is...err...interesting? Not a lot in the ad about the service history (and seems it is due one!) and with the colour I'd expect a bit of movement on the price. Important thing is if YOU like the colour. If so then go for it! We won't need to call custard!

That second one is a lot of car for the money. Like the looks too although as a Lapis Blue owner I would!!!

lol! Yellow cars have always been a "like, but not sure I'd want to own" thing... It's probably going to stay that way!

I'd have a Speed Yellow GT3, maybe even a C2 in SY but that colour, especially with the decals is 'interesting'.

I like the blue but sitting in a traffic jam with a grey interior would give me depression.

R26Andy said: I like the blue but sitting in a traffic jam with a grey interior would give me depression. Grey interior is actually nice, much less gloomy than black! Was worried about mine when I bought it, 5yrs later I'm still happy with it

I like mine too - think the leather pack is a necessity!

The 996 4s looks amazing in blue but I dismissed it as they all seemed to have grey interiors, perhaps I should have gave it a whirl. I have to admit the the black interior does need lifting, that's why I ended up painting my PCM facile and other centre console bits.

We discounted a very clean silver/dark blue 996 convertible as the missus basically said it didn't feel special enough sitting inside it. There was no ali, just dark plastic, black dials, old school original stereo etc. I then found a full tinsel one and my missus fell in love with it. I have no idea what colour the interior is...it's almost like duck egg blue. Not entirely sure it goes with a black steering wheel and my 993 owning mate described the whole car as 'overdressed tat' which I thought was amusing and harsh in equal measures. Either way, you could never describe the cabin as boring.