GT3 - buy a 997.2, or buy a 997.1 and save £20k? - Page 5 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

I'm new to 911s so hoping to pick your collective brains please. I'm in two minds - it seems 997.2 GT3s are around £85k-£90k currently, and 997.1s are around £65k-£70k (I know, I should've bought one or other of them a year or two ago). £20k isn't a trivial sum, but if the Gen2 will hold its value better, maybe it's money well spent? Aside from the obvious fact of being newer & probably with fewer miles on, what are the benefits of the 2 over the 1? People talk about an improvment in build quality, but 7.1s seem ok to me. 7.2s have LEDs & a better satnav & bluetooth etc, but anything else I should know? Mechanically, aesthetically, whatever? I'm seeing 5 on Thursday, 3 Gen1s & 2 Gen2s - should be an interesting day! Thanks in advance for your comments & advice.

andywaterfall said: I'm new to 911s so hoping to pick your collective brains please. I'm in two minds - it seems 997.2 GT3s are around £85k-£90k currently, and 997.1s are around £65k-£70k (I know, I should've bought one or other of them a year or two ago). £20k isn't a trivial sum, but if the Gen2 will hold its value better, maybe it's money well spent? Aside from the obvious fact of being newer & probably with fewer miles on, what are the benefits of the 2 over the 1? People talk about an improvment in build quality, but 7.1s seem ok to me. 7.2s have LEDs & a better satnav & bluetooth etc, but anything else I should know? Mechanically, aesthetically, whatever? I'm seeing 5 on Thursday, 3 Gen1s & 2 Gen2s - should be an interesting day! Thanks in advance for your comments & advice. I have a 2007 997 GT3, its awesome! ......... never driven a 997.2 GT3 so..... mine is the best GT3 I have ever driven As a side note, are they really going for £65k now?

Also, I am assuming you have done all your research on the GT3 and rev ranges and OPC 111 point checks and warranty questions etc etc If not, let me know and i'll dig out some links to threads for you.

http://press.porsche.com/vehicles/10_press_kits/pd... Brakes are crap for track. So that requires upgrade but that's about it. I did Alcon on all 4 corners.

Cheers mate, done a fair bit of homework (including reading some of your posts here) so I think I'm up to speed, but always welcome more info so yes please, I'd like to see the links if it's not too much bother! 4 of the 5 I'm seeing are at official dealers, the other's at Nick Whale Sportscars, so scans & warranties should be ok. Hey, see you on the Petrolhead Nirvana Alpine South tour!

you do realised 997 GT3s have manual gearboxes, and not DCTs like you have on the M3

All GT3's are great, you won't feel short-changed with any... http://www.evo.co.uk/features/features/289996/pors...

andywaterfall said: Cheers mate, done a fair bit of homework (including reading some of your posts here) so I think I'm up to speed, but always welcome more info so yes please, I'd like to see the links if it's not too much bother! 4 of the 5 I'm seeing are at official dealers, the other's at Nick Whale Sportscars, so scans & warranties should be ok. Hey, see you on the Petrolhead Nirvana Alpine South tour! Are you coming too? Brilliant! Are you hoping to get the GT3 before you go? Would be great to see (and hear) another one on tour Links - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=111... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... You may have read through those threads already but if not they should keep you busy

997.1 is amazing... Good question, is the gen 2 worth 20K more than this leap! "Four years in the evolution of the 911 didn’t used to be a very long time, but in the last decade or so the pace of development has been staggering. Want proof? Hop from a 2003-spec 996 GT3 to a 2007 997 GT3 and prepare to have your mind blown. Every dynamic element of the package is transformed – power, torque, agility, stability, body control, grip, braking performance… The new car moves the game on to such an extent it beggars belief. We’ve had the sweet, lithe feel of the original car, the more aggressive and focused second generation and now we get the two expertly mixed but with everything turned up to 12, maybe 15..." The write up for the gen 2 car doesnt convey such a significant leap. I know we'd all like the latest / last version of the manual GT3 but does it justify £20k plus...? Not sure. I do personally prefer the cosmetic tweaks, rear spolier and alike... From an investment point - yes. In 20 / 30 years it will be advertised as THE last of the manual great cars, and thats where I think you'll see the most back from your £20k investment not so much in the drive...

worth the leap imo newer cars means less parts to replace.

mrdemon said: worth the leap imo newer cars means less parts to replace. & if same mileage?

mrdemon said: worth the leap imo newer cars means less parts to replace. What does this mean?

SFO said: you do realised 997 GT3s have manual gearboxes, and not DCTs like you have on the M3 Ta for the heads-up, I'm doing the left leg & arm exercises as I type

mm450exc said: http://press.porsche.com/vehicles/10_press_kits/pd... Brakes are crap for track. So that requires upgrade but that's about it. I did Alcon on all 4 corners. Excellent, thanks - just what I've been looking for without success.

V8KSN said: Are you coming too? Brilliant! Are you hoping to get the GT3 before you go? Would be great to see (and hear) another one on tour Links - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=111... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... You may have read through those threads already but if not they should keep you busy That's the plan - I've taken the M3 on loads of tours with PHN & it's been ace, but I figured it was time for a change. Those links are also excellent, thanks - I went back a few pages but obviously not far enough!

So the differences... 1) 3.8 vs. 3.6 2) PCM3 on gen2 (Full post code with update) 3) Rear wing - more downforce on gen2 4) PSM and PTM (Gen1 only has PTM) 5) Larger brakes on gen2 6) VarioCam Plus on intake and exhaust (gen1 only intake) 7) Better audio - you can actually hear the radio!

435 -v -415ps Centre lock - v- 5 stud

1) 3.8 vs. 3.6 - check 2) PCM3 on gen2 - check 3) Rear wing - more downforce on gen2 - check 4) PSM and PTM (Gen1 only has PTM) PSM on Gen 1 not PTM 5) Larger brakes on gen2 - Go for Ceramics (same on both / better performance / no 'DUST' 6) VarioCam Plus on intake and exhaust (gen1 only intake) - check 7) Better audio - you can actually hear the radio! - Who cares about the wireless!

I think it's all down to personal preference at the end of the day. Sure, the 3.8 is better on paper, but in the real world, I'm not sure there's a massive difference (bar the greater convenience and slight increase in power/torque). Of more relevance (and it hasn't been mentioned yet) is the comparison between the Club Sport cars and the 'Comfort' cars. Generally, the market favors the former as it adds that bit more driver appeal to what is ultimately Porsche's rawest expression of a road car (RS notwithstanding). With the Club Sport you get a half cage (bolted in), carbon backed fixed buckets on the Gen 1 (the Gen 2 got either fixed back or folding buckets), a fire extinguisher and battery cut out. The 'Comfort' cars by comparison, got the Sports seats from the Carrera range, which to my mind at least look and feel incongruous in a car with such focus. As I say, personal preference. If I was shopping again, I'd pick a Gen 1 Club Sport over a Gen 2 'Comfort'. Also, PCCBs are a nice option, but they have their critics. For heavy track use, you'll want a steel disc'd car instead. Investment wise, I'd hope that both are a safe bet. The Gen 2 will always command more, but not exponentially so, I shouldn't think. History will view the 997 GT3 as the last of its kind; not whether you get significant benefit from PCM4 relative to PCM3 etc. After all, you could take your £20k and invest it to far greater effect elsewhere in my humble opinion. The Gen 2 certainly isn't £20k more car than its forbear.

Negative. The gen1 only has TM. gen2 was the first gt3 with PSM.

Got to be worth getting the Gen2 for the rear bumper alone. Doesn't have the double chin effect of the earlier car.

I used to love, love, LOVE the look of the Gen 1. Then the Gen 2 came out and, somehow, i couldn't want a Gen 1 any less! Some bloody clever designers they have there... So yeah, i'd do what i could to stretch for the Gen 2!

Mermaid said: & if same mileage? nope as rads and exhausts rot though on older cars in the corner even if same milage :-) infact some times lower miles cars are worse on some items.

GreatPretender said: I think it's all down to personal preference at the end of the day. Sure, the 3.8 is better on paper, but in the real world, I'm not sure there's a massive difference (bar the greater convenience and slight increase in power/torque). <snip> Investment wise, I'd hope that both are a safe bet. The Gen 2 will always command more, but not exponentially so, I shouldn't think. History will view the 997 GT3 as the last of its kind; not whether you get significant benefit from PCM4 relative to PCM3 etc. After all, you could take your £20k and invest it to far greater effect elsewhere in my humble opinion. The Gen 2 certainly isn't £20k more car than its forbear. Slickhillsy said: 997.1 is amazing... Good question, is the gen 2 worth 20K more than this leap! "Four years in the evolution of the 911 didn’t used to be a very long time, but in the last decade or so the pace of development has been staggering. Want proof? Hop from a 2003-spec 996 GT3 to a 2007 997 GT3 and prepare to have your mind blown. Every dynamic element of the package is transformed – power, torque, agility, stability, body control, grip, braking performance… The new car moves the game on to such an extent it beggars belief. We’ve had the sweet, lithe feel of the original car, the more aggressive and focused second generation and now we get the two expertly mixed but with everything turned up to 12, maybe 15..." The write up for the gen 2 car doesnt convey such a significant leap. I know we'd all like the latest / last version of the manual GT3 but does it justify £20k plus...? Not sure. I do personally prefer the cosmetic tweaks, rear spolier and alike... From an investment point - yes. In 20 / 30 years it will be advertised as THE last of the manual great cars, and thats where I think you'll see the most back from your £20k investment not so much in the drive... That's decided then, Gen 1 it is, it's awesome and the Gen 2 doesn't add £20k of value. Then I read: Magic919 said: Got to be worth getting the Gen2 for the rear bumper alone. Doesn't have the double chin effect of the earlier car. hondansx said: I used to love, love, LOVE the look of the Gen 1. Then the Gen 2 came out and, somehow, i couldn't want a Gen 1 any less! Some bloody clever designers they have there... So yeah, i'd do what i could to stretch for the Gen 2! So now I'm back to square 1! Seriously, thanks everyone for the advice, all views welcome. I guess I'll have to drive them both on Thursday (confession - I've driven a few boggo 911s & they aren't quick enough, but never driven a GT3. I'm hoping it'll do the trick) & report back.

It is a bit tricky for anyone other than yourself to decide whether the extra 20k is worth it. That said, speaking for myself I would go for the gen2 everytime. The 7.1 gt3 is a good car to drive but the 7.2 is a really good car IMO.

isaldiri said: It is a bit tricky for anyone other than yourself to decide whether the extra 20k is worth it. That said, speaking for myself I would go for the gen2 everytime. The 7.1 gt3 is a good car but the 7.2 is a really good car IMO. But thats the point... Gen 2 is the way to go. Question is... is it worth the extra £20K? If they were the same price point, no brainer - but...

I've had a Gen2 for some years now. However, if I was to buy one today, I'd probably go for a Gen1 if it was £20k difference like for like. I'd ignore the Porsche warranty and make a few sensible mods to suit the need. However... I'm not sure they are actually selling £20k apart. Nic Gen1 cars are in the £60ks aren't they? Then most Gen2s seem to be high £70s, perhaps low £80ks. I think the high £80k cars are just people chancing it.

andywaterfall said: GreatPretender said: I think it's all down to personal preference at the end of the day. Sure, the 3.8 is better on paper, but in the real world, I'm not sure there's a massive difference (bar the greater convenience and slight increase in power/torque). <snip> Investment wise, I'd hope that both are a safe bet. The Gen 2 will always command more, but not exponentially so, I shouldn't think. History will view the 997 GT3 as the last of its kind; not whether you get significant benefit from PCM4 relative to PCM3 etc. After all, you could take your £20k and invest it to far greater effect elsewhere in my humble opinion. The Gen 2 certainly isn't £20k more car than its forbear. Slickhillsy said: 997.1 is amazing... Good question, is the gen 2 worth 20K more than this leap! "Four years in the evolution of the 911 didn’t used to be a very long time, but in the last decade or so the pace of development has been staggering. Want proof? Hop from a 2003-spec 996 GT3 to a 2007 997 GT3 and prepare to have your mind blown. Every dynamic element of the package is transformed – power, torque, agility, stability, body control, grip, braking performance… The new car moves the game on to such an extent it beggars belief. We’ve had the sweet, lithe feel of the original car, the more aggressive and focused second generation and now we get the two expertly mixed but with everything turned up to 12, maybe 15..." The write up for the gen 2 car doesnt convey such a significant leap. I know we'd all like the latest / last version of the manual GT3 but does it justify £20k plus...? Not sure. I do personally prefer the cosmetic tweaks, rear spolier and alike... From an investment point - yes. In 20 / 30 years it will be advertised as THE last of the manual great cars, and thats where I think you'll see the most back from your £20k investment not so much in the drive... That's decided then, Gen 1 it is, it's awesome and the Gen 2 doesn't add £20k of value. Then I read: Magic919 said: Got to be worth getting the Gen2 for the rear bumper alone. Doesn't have the double chin effect of the earlier car. hondansx said: I used to love, love, LOVE the look of the Gen 1. Then the Gen 2 came out and, somehow, i couldn't want a Gen 1 any less! Some bloody clever designers they have there... So yeah, i'd do what i could to stretch for the Gen 2! So now I'm back to square 1! Seriously, thanks everyone for the advice, all views welcome. I guess I'll have to drive them both on Thursday (confession - I've driven a few boggo 911s & they aren't quick enough, but never driven a GT3. I'm hoping it'll do the trick) & report back. Only you can decide if the Gen 2 is worth the greater investment. For me, I only had one choice as I couldn't stretch to a Gen 2. For what it's worth however, if I could do so, I'd have gone for a Gen 1 RS. The Gen 2 is undoubtedly a 'better' car in the same way that a Samsung ZX2000 is better than the ZX1000 it replaced. It was ever thus. But, for those of us not fortunate enough for money to be inconsequential, I'd maintain that as a value proposition, £65k of 997.1 GT3 is more satisfying than £85k of 997.2 GT3. After all, £20k into a mortgage is arguably a better bet than an extra £20k tied up in an already expensive car. The bottom line is, you can't really go wrong with any GT3; they were all brilliant and I'd be comfortable in the knowledge that all of them hold one way tickets to the Porsche hall of fame stratospheric values Happy hunting.

Slickhillsy said: But thats the point... Gen 2 is the way to go. Question is... is it worth the extra £20K? If they were the same price point, no brainer - but... Was I that unclear in my post Is the 7.2 worth the extra £20k? I definitely think so personally based on how much I liked the 7.2 to drive over the 7.1 but whether anyone else would think likewise is quite an individual thing I guess.

andywaterfall said: So now I'm back to square 1! Seriously, thanks everyone for the advice, all views welcome. I guess I'll have to drive them both on Thursday (confession - I've driven a few boggo 911s & they aren't quick enough, but never driven a GT3. I'm hoping it'll do the trick) & report back. a 997.1 with power pack is quicker than a GT3 to about 90mph :-) you don't buy a GT3 for the out and out speed.

mrdemon said: a 997.1 with power pack is quicker than a GT3 to about 90mph :-) you don't buy a GT3 for the out and out speed. Sorry quick was shorthand. I really meant interesting/exciting/involving.

Interesting thread...

If it was my own money I would be looking for the nicest 997.1 Clubsport that I could find.. Unless you could stretch to an RS... Failing that anything with GT3 on the back would do nicely.

What are you going to use it for? The gen 2 is a better out of the box road car, but if you are buying for the track you only have to throw a few grand at a gen 1 to get it to a very similar place handling wise. The Gen 1 is cheaper and doesn't have the centre lock wheel overheads. The price spread doesn't currently show much sign of changing so unless you are planning to be buried in it, the more expensive car to buy will return much of the premium on resale if that is a factor. There are other preference factors though. The folding bucket was not available on the gen1, but to me are miles more comfortable than the fixed back seats (comfort seats are missing the point in either). The low end torque and flatter power curve of the 3.8 over the 3.6 is also tangible. If you want sat nav at all then you want gen 2 as well - in a gen 1 you are better off with the basic stereo and a TomTom. Also - IIRC the TPMS system was optional (and often not selected) on the gen 1 and standard on the gen 2. It is well worth having IMHO. The counterweight is that the centre locks are just a pain. Have you also ruled out the 997.1 RS? If one could be acquired for sensible money it would be worth looking at simply due to the greater potential for medium term value increase. Just a thought. But if you just want a straight opinion - when in your position a bit under 3 years ago, I bought a gen 2.

They are all great, 20hp more and more torque low down on a gen 2, and an arguably better looking rear spoiler, but let's face it they all look ok... Edit to add, I do get the bucket seat thing, I really do, they look good, but I've got the adaptive sports seats and they are excellent. I've just done 2500 miles around Europe in mine and not once did I feel I needed to be in a bucket seat. Though I am 6ft 2 and a bit of a lump so the buckets might be a bit snug on my shoulders. Oh and hi Ian, I hope you are well mate. Edited by pete a on Tuesday 29th July 21:10

Thanks everyone for some fascinating insights. I guess the answer was obvious from the start - only I can decide if the extra £20k is worth it to me. Without having driven either, I'm veering from one to the other with each new post on this thread, but I'm hoping a drive will make it all clear. Guess I'll find out in a couple of days!

DiscoColin said: What are you going to use it for? The gen 2 is a better out of the box road car, but if you are buying for the track you only have to throw a few grand at a gen 1 to get it to a very similar place handling wise. The Gen 1 is cheaper and doesn't have the centre lock wheel overheads. The price spread doesn't currently show much sign of changing so unless you are planning to be buried in it, the more expensive car to buy will return much of the premium on resale if that is a factor. There are other preference factors though. The folding bucket was not available on the gen1, but to me are miles more comfortable than the fixed back seats (comfort seats are missing the point in either). The low end torque and flatter power curve of the 3.8 over the 3.6 is also tangible. If you want sat nav at all then you want gen 2 as well - in a gen 1 you are better off with the basic stereo and a TomTom. Also - IIRC the TPMS system was optional (and often not selected) on the gen 1 and standard on the gen 2. It is well worth having IMHO. The counterweight is that the centre locks are just a pain. Have you also ruled out the 997.1 RS? If one could be acquired for sensible money it would be worth looking at simply due to the greater potential for medium term value increase. Just a thought. But if you just want a straight opinion - when in your position a bit under 3 years ago, I bought a gen 2. I doubt I'll track it, it'll be too valuable/costly. I've got an Elise for that anyway. It'll be for touring with the Petrolhead Nirvana gang, and Sunday morning hoons, and looking at. Thanks for the straight answer at the end of your post!

pete a said: They are all great, 20hp more and more torque low down on a gen 2, and an arguably better looking rear spoiler, but let's face it they all look ok... Simply stunning Pete.. gorgeous arse Was a pleasure to follow you in the Alps, You are a very lucky man.. Bet your glad you bought it when you did rather than at today's prices. Edited by mr sagman on Tuesday 29th July 22:42

andywaterfall said: Thanks everyone for some fascinating insights. I guess the answer was obvious from the start - only I can decide if the extra £20k is worth it to me. Without having driven either, I'm veering from one to the other with each new post on this thread, but I'm hoping a drive will make it all clear. Guess I'll find out in a couple of days! Andy, whichever one you get you have to get the Hayward & Scott exhaust on it. Its only £400 odd quid and it sounds amazing! If you are in Berkshire at any point when doing your search, PM me on here and we will arrange a time you can take mine out for a drive.

hondansx said: I used to love, love, LOVE the look of the Gen 1. Then the Gen 2 came out and, somehow, i couldn't want a Gen 1 any less! Some bloody clever designers they have there... So yeah, i'd do what i could to stretch for the Gen 2! For me it was this..... I still love, love, LOVE the look of the Gen 1! Then the Gen 2 came out and, somehow, i couldn't quite justify another £20k to buy one! Some bloody clever man-maths required there... So yeah, I bought a Gen 1 and I am very happy with it! Edited by V8KSN on Wednesday 30th July 10:14

andywaterfall said: , and looking at. ! they do excel at that :-)

I've spent far too much time in front of Kul's, Sean's, Peter's and Simon's 997 GT3s - it's nice to see the back of one for a change. And Andy, i think you should buy the blue one and then bring it on ALS (especially since we already have 5 E92 M3s booked!).

A thought from left field. Would you consider LHD? There is a gen 2 clubsport on mobile.de for less than €80k (£64k).

Gen 1, albeit the RS, has been over the past 18 months since I bought it, the most thrilling car I have ever owned. Just a joy and such a friendly feeling car, it always seems to be on your side. Buckets amazingingly comfortable as you can pad out and adjust for your perfect seat, including 2500 mile across the alps with V8 KSN. Just cannot imagine that a mere 20HP can make such a difference, but then again not driven a Gen 2. All advice I had when I bought mine was not worth the extra 20 k. Just personal opinion but I think you would need to be after 10ths on track for it make sense. However in the end it depends how wealthy you are and i suspect if you are asking the question this is a consideration. Gen 1 and gen 2 surely amazing but not 20k difference amazing.

Capability aside the gen 2 997 gt3 is one of the best looking mass produced Porsches of all time. For that reason it deserves it's place in the half of fame, the fact that it is also one of the best drives is the icing on the cake. Gen 1 is no doubt a great car but will always now be in the shadow of the gen 2. Worth £20k extra? The riviera blue one was.

The extra 20k isnt _so_ large when you look at it in percentage terms, added is the risk that sitting in a 997.1, looking at a 997.2 - will you regret not getting the car you really wanted in the first place...

This might help, Alex knows his stuff! http://sharkwerks.com/porsche/porsche-modification... So you've settled on what is perhaps our favorite platform: the Porsche 997.1 GT3 / GT3 RS. At SharkWerks we've owned every GT3 variant/model to date but there's something magical about the 997.1's lighter-weight 3.6 pistons/internals and the way it revs versus the 3.8L Mk2 GT3. On this GT3, you have started with the most highly tuned sport suspension, brake and chassis set up from the factory, the most exciting flat-6 Porsche engine to date (plenty of power/acceleration), and with some terrific aero fine-tuned at the 'ring.

GT3andy said: Just personal opinion but I think you would need to be after 10ths on track for it make sense. Actually it is the opposite - I found that the advantage of the 3.8 is mostly felt at the bottom end and not while trying to wring every last horse out of it. In a straight drag you are only talking a few car lengths over the entire length of the main straight at the 'ring. On the track the benefit is marginal except for a few places where you can get away with using 3rd instead of kicking it down a cog, but for drivability as a road car I find it better than a 3.6 (pulls better at the bottom end and is more linear in its delivery). The Gen2 also has stiffer springs and a better front end out of the box (the presence of PSM - which I now have to recommend turning off on track - means that it comes with less factory understeer), but as I said earlier they are little different once properly set up. On the subject of the seats - if you fit in the gen 1 buckets then you are golden and can't go wrong. Most people that I know don't though - if broad across the hips or shoulders... The best seat for comfort and for the widest range of people that fit it is still IMHO the 996 bucket. The next best is the 997.2 folding bucket. The other fixed 997 buck is usually okay for people who are built for speed, but if you (or any potential occupant of your passenger seat) are on the weights or the pies it is far from optimal. The OP will know when he goes car viewing if that matters to him. What I will add though is that if you have a Bell helmet/HANS bag, the folding buckets are the only way that it is going to be transported behind your seats. Stowing things behind the seats with those is a night and day convenience improvement. Edited by DiscoColin on Wednesday 30th July 22:22

Cant go wrong with either really

Come on then op.. How did you get on ? I've had butterflies all day and I don't even know you.

Well that was straightforward. I drove a 7.1 club sport first thing, and (no offence to 7.1 owners here) I wasn't keen on the interior which seemed a bit of an old design, which I guess it is. The bucket seats didn't suit by bum either. So I cancelled the drives in the other two later in the day. Then it was off to see a white 7.2 comfort, which was awesome & quite scary. I wasn't 100% on the white though, so carried on to see a black one, same spec but newer, with fewer miles & owners. It was the one I'd had my eye on from the start, but hoped I wouldn't like as it was naturally the most expensive. No ceramics, front lifter, chrono, nav, just what I was after. They offered me low on my car, but full price on the GT3. Worth a try I s'pose. I made them a low counter-offer which I thought they'd say no to - and they did. I was secretly relieved as it's a shed load of cash, so I dug my heels in & said that was my best offer. The nice sales guy went off to see the sales manager, as they do, and came back with a deal £500 away. Close enough that I had to say yes really. Picking it up Monday. Crap!

mr sagman said: Come on then op.. How did you get on ? I've had butterflies all day and I don't even know you. GLOL

Forgot to say, thanks everyone here for all the excellent advice. When it came to it though, there was no substitute for personal experience & preference. Really looking forward to the Alps with PHN now!

V similar to mine so great choice!

andywaterfall said: Forgot to say, thanks everyone here for all the excellent advice. When it came to it though, there was no substitute for personal experience & preference. Really looking forward to the Alps with PHN now! Looks absolutely fantastic mate.. I look forward to seeing it in the flesh on the PHN trip in September, Many congrats.

andywaterfall said: Well that was straightforward. I drove a 7.1 club sport first thing, and (no offence to 7.1 owners here) I wasn't keen on the interior which seemed a bit of an old design, which I guess it is. The bucket seats didn't suit by bum either. So I cancelled the drives in the other two later in the day. Then it was off to see a white 7.2 comfort, which was awesome & quite scary. I wasn't 100% on the white though, so carried on to see a black one, same spec but newer, with fewer miles & owners. It was the one I'd had my eye on from the start, but hoped I wouldn't like as it was naturally the most expensive. No ceramics, front lifter, chrono, nav, just what I was after. They offered me low on my car, but full price on the GT3. Worth a try I s'pose. I made them a low counter-offer which I thought they'd say no to - and they did. I was secretly relieved as it's a shed load of cash, so I dug my heels in & said that was my best offer. The nice sales guy went off to see the sales manager, as they do, and came back with a deal £500 away. Close enough that I had to say yes really. Picking it up Monday. Crap! Congratulations Car looks awesome! Are you going to give it a service and oil change etc before the tour? If so, I would recommend you take it over to JZM or PARR or someone who has experience of working on GT3's and get the geo checked too just to make sure all the wheels are pointing straight. If you have time and you like a bit of noise, get yourself a Hayward & Scott exhaust too as they sound incredible! Cant wait for the PHN tour myself now, another GT3 to chase

andywaterfall said: Then it was off to see a white 7.2 comfort, which was awesome & quite scary. Congrats sir, car looks great - the wait is the most painful part! #sleeplessnights One question... You mention the non bucket / comfort 7.2 was more scary than the (more hardcore) clubsport 7.1? Would have thought the rawness / observation would have been the other way round no??? Comfort spec (espec seats) generally take the edge off the ride...

I have a 997.2 in comfort spec which I use as a daily. There is no way I could use a clubsport as a daily. You won't regret the MKII over the MK1, I am glad I got the MKII. Good choice OP.

Slickhillsy said: andywaterfall said: Then it was off to see a white 7.2 comfort, which was awesome & quite scary. Congrats sir, car looks great - the wait is the most painful part! #sleeplessnights One question... You mention the non bucket / comfort 7.2 was more scary than the (more hardcore) clubsport 7.1? Would have thought the rawness / observation would have been the other way round no??? Comfort spec (espec seats) generally take the edge off the ride... Thanks all. Trying to set up collection for tomorrow now... I don't know if the particular 7.1 I drove was a bit tired or something, or maybe I was over-awed by the whole GT3-ness (as it was my first drive in one) and wasn't extending it properly to the top of the rev range, but it just wasn't as quick as I'd been expecting. Whereas the two 7.2s definitely were, and then some.

andywaterfall said: I made them a low counter-offer which I thought they'd say no to - and they did. I was secretly relieved as it's a shed load of cash, so I dug my heels in & said that was my best offer. The nice sales guy went off to see the sales manager, as they do, and came back with a deal £500 away. Close enough that I had to say yes really. good on you Quite a common dance for buying any car

very very very cool Andy! I'm pretty sure Pete's going to be badgering me again now.......

andywaterfall said: I don't know if the particular 7.1 I drove was a bit tired or something, or maybe I was over-awed by the whole GT3-ness (as it was my first drive in one) and wasn't extending it properly to the top of the rev range, but it just wasn't as quick as I'd been expecting. Whereas the two 7.2s definitely were, and then some. As I alluded to earlier, it is the bottom of the rev range where the 3.8 gives the most benefit. If you were spooling them out beyond 8000rpm in 3rd on the way to wholly illegal velocities then you wouldn't have found the 3.6 lacking I reckon. But road driving out of the bottom of the torque curve, the 3.8 is the better road car. Personally I would always go for the folding Gen 2 buckets myself, but for your intended use you have bought a truly awesome way to travel. Congratulations and welcome to the asylum

Harsh said: very very very cool Andy! I'm pretty sure Pete's going to be badgering me again now....... Best be quick, they're going up daily! You can have mine for £200k after the Alps :-)

andywaterfall said: Best be quick, they're going up daily! You can have mine for £200k after the Alps :-) you won't want to sell after the Alps ...

SFO said: andywaterfall said: Best be quick, they're going up daily! You can have mine for £200k after the Alps :-) you won't want to sell after the Alps ... This.

I sold my 7.2 GT3 and regret it so much that I'm looking to buy another one. I'm really keen on any in black and clubsport. Just the perfect Porsche.

Don't worry Jamie I'm looking after it. It was round Curbourgh on Thurs...

Jamie why not just use the RS or is it a case of too much value to use regularly now?

Fish said: Jamie why not just use the RS or is it a case of too much value to use regularly now? Good question. Comments about the car being worth £500k one day soon surely influence?

The GT3 is a better road car. Narrower and the engine is better for not going into warp speed all the time. Nothing to don with value, it's all meaningless as I won't sell it no matter what the price becomes to.

pistolp said: The GT3 is a better road car. Narrower and the engine is better for not going into warp speed all the time. Nothing to don with value, it's all meaningless as I won't sell it no matter what the price becomes to. Does the gt3 really feel that much smaller on the road as one does read that quite often. Per specs it is ~5cm narrower but actually is the same width with mirrors included. Having only pretty limited experience with the gt3, i have to admit at the time I thought the car didn't feel very different at size wise than the rs.

isaldiri said: Does the gt3 really feel that much smaller on the road as one does read that quite often. Per specs it is ~5cm narrower but actually is the same width with mirrors included. Having only pretty limited experience with the gt3, i have to admit at the time I thought the car didn't feel very different at size wise than the rs. If you are backing up or navigating in an area with a narrow (but low) access those 2 inches matter Having said that the 991 GT3 is the same body width as the 997.2 GT3RS (1852mm) and is 26mm wider with the mirrors at 1978 ( 1952) - about a foot wider than the 964RS.

Fish said: Don't worry Jamie I'm looking after it. It was round Curbourgh on Thurs... Was looking very good on Thurs & sounded great. Shame I didn't get a chance for a ride, but maybe that would have made my Boxster feel just so inadequate...

Hope you had a good time shame it started to rain..

Mermaid said: If you are backing up or navigating in an area with a narrow (but low) access those 2 inches matter Having said that the 991 GT3 is the same body width as the 997.2 GT3RS (1852mm) and is 26mm wider with the mirrors at 1978 ( 1952) - about a foot wider than the 964RS. Hm, was more thinking at reasonable speeds on a b road. In that case max width of the car (ie mirrors inclusive) is what matters the most, at least for me.

To me its very noticeable, hence why I want another! Its not night and day obviously but its worthwhile

mm450exc said: So the differences... 4) PSM and PTM (Gen1 only has PTM) PSM is Porsche stability management and the Porsche name for ESP? But what is PTM? Is there also an option on the PSM to make the ESP a little more lose (like on the BMW M3 M-dynamic mode)…?

V8KSN said: I have a 2007 997 GT3, its awesome! ......... never driven a 997.2 GT3 so..... mine is the best GT3 I have ever driven As a side note, are they really going for £65k now? Awesome indeed, as for price I sold mine last week to OPC Edinburgh: http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

FlopperV60 said: Awesome indeed, as for price I sold mine last week to OPC Edinburgh: http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... They have it up for £74,000 - what did you sell it for?

65? As a guess ?

R1nur said: They have it up for £74,000 - what did you sell it for? Even with OPC tax, that is a very encouraging trade price

GreatPretender said: R1nur said: They have it up for £74,000 - what did you sell it for? Even with OPC tax, that is a very encouraging trade price Probably not fair to disclose what they paid for it but I was happy with the number it was more than I bought it for from them last year. I am just gutted to lose it, the financials just helped to take the edge off of it. It is a cracking car which wants for nothing I'd have it back in a heartbeat if money wasn't an issue. It was going to be a keeper but a property we have wanted for a long time has come onto the market and I have to scale back to be in a position to make an offer.

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Franzino said: mm450exc said: So the differences... 4) PSM and PTM (Gen1 only has PTM) PSM is Porsche stability management and the Porsche name for ESP? But what is PTM? Is there also an option on the PSM to make the ESP a little more lose (like on the BMW M3 M-dynamic mode)…? Porsche Traction Management In Sport mode the PSM will be a bit less active. Always turn it off on track as it's hard on the rear brakes.

mm450exc said: Porsche Traction Management In Sport mode the PSM will be a bit less active. Always turn it off on track as it's hard on the rear brakes. Is sport mode something that is standard on a 997 GT3 MK2, or is it part of the sport-chrono package?

Franzino said: Is sport mode something that is standard on a 997 GT3 MK2, or is it part of the sport-chrono package? It's standard. There are no performance options on any GT3 as far as I'm aware.

Interesting thread for GT3 chit chat so thought I'd throw this out there... I'm just about the advertise my 2007 997.1 gt3 - white with black wheels (great spec) - ceramics - carbon leather seats - other spec detail on request If you're interest before it goes to market this week please pm me... Thanks. Mark.

Slickhillsy said: Interesting thread for GT3 chit chat so thought I'd throw this out there... I'm just about the advertise my 2007 997.1 gt3 - white with black wheels (great spec) - ceramics - carbon leather seats - other spec detail on request If you're interest before it goes to market this week please pm me... Thanks. Mark. Purely out of interest what's the mileage ? I bought v similar car but with buckets CS spec last week, Good luck with the sale. Btw I don't accept pm but if u wanted me to PM u with my email just say and I'll give u details of mine

V12DRC said: Slickhillsy said: Interesting thread for GT3 chit chat so thought I'd throw this out there... I'm just about the advertise my 2007 997.1 gt3 - white with black wheels (great spec) - ceramics - carbon leather seats - other spec detail on request If you're interest before it goes to market this week please pm me... Thanks. Mark. Purely out of interest what's the mileage ? I bought v similar car but with buckets CS spec last week, Good luck with the sale. Btw I don't accept pm but if u wanted me to PM u with my email just say and I'll give u details of mine Thanks mate. 34k - I have a ball park I'm looking for, open to offers. Hope you enjoy the car, they are epic drives...

Slickhillsy said: Thanks mate. 34k - I have a ball park I'm looking for, open to offers. Hope you enjoy the car, they are epic drives... No prob happy to give u a guide if you wanted it all that's all. You'll miss it if u sell it &#128512;

V12DRC said: Slickhillsy said: Thanks mate. 34k - I have a ball park I'm looking for, open to offers. Hope you enjoy the car, they are epic drives... No prob happy to give u a guide if you wanted it all that's all. You'll miss it if u sell it ?? Not what I'm getting in to i won't! ;-)

Slickhillsy said: Not what I'm getting in to i won't! ;-) C'mon spill the beans! Mexico Blue 4.0 RS??? Cheers Slodge

slodge said: Slickhillsy said: Not what I'm getting in to i won't! ;-) C'mon spill the beans! Mexico Blue 4.0 RS??? Cheers Slodge Lol... Nope this one's red! :-)

Slickhillsy said: Lol... Nope this one's red! :-) Nice they look good in red Cheers Slodge

lol Not quite!

Slickhillsy said: Not what I'm getting in to i won't! ;-) Go on then get the fezza it won't start :-) Edited by V12DRC on Sunday 10th August 22:43

V12DRC said: Slickhillsy said: Not what I'm getting in to i won't! ;-) Go on then get the fezza it won't start :-) Edited by V12DRC on Sunday 10th August 22:43 lol Don't want to drive it just want to look at it!!! :-)