I bled my brakes today using the Motiv bleeder. I have never performed a bleed before today. I followed the recommendations found here. I did nit put the fluid in the motive and just used it to pressurize the system. I used 8 psi. I seemed as though if I opened the bleeder valve 1/4 turn, air bubbles could be seen continuosly through the nipple tubing. If I opened about 1/8 turn the fluid still drained but without the bubbles. I went back and rebled each caliper with 1/8 turn to assure only fluid w/o bubbles was being released. I took the car out and did some hard braking and the pedal is firm and did not feel mushy at all. Is it possible to open the bleeder valve too much so that air entered at the tubing attachment to the nipple? I made sure the master cylinder remained above minimum throughout the process. I checked the master cylinder frequently. Also is there a torque setting to be used on the bleeder valve?
Any input would be appreciated.:thanks:
Did you pinch the hose at the nipple attachment point while bleeding? It's not always a snug fit and air could be sucked in at that point making it look like there was air in the system.
I had the same problem when I did mine. Wiggling the hose attached to the bleeder nipple sometimes stopped the air. I think it is getting in between the nipple and the hose. One suggestion I haven't tried yet is to have the catch bottle above the nipple to keep some pressure in the line.
http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxster-tech/34394-crush-washer-extraction-2.html
Thanks for the quick responses and the link. It was scary seeing all that air in the drain tube but I feel much better now. BTW I used RBF 600 which was the same color as the
Porsche
fluid.. Does the RBF 600 come in a different color?
An even better solution is to raise your bleed/catch bottle and hose above the bleed screw. This will ensure that the bleed hose is under positive pressure at the screw. When the screw is loosened, air can leak in (or fluid leak out) around the threads. By raising the hose/bottle, you ensure that a tiny amount of fluid leaks out at the threads vs. air leaking in.
P997S:
Call me crazy, but I don't see a problem here. Bubbles in the tubing AFTER the caliper nipple? So what?!!
The air is coming from some small leak at the hose to the nipple or the threads. It's not going to leak into the caliper. The fluid is under pressure inside the caliper, not under pressure in this catch tube, so where is the air going to go?
Yes? Johnnie? That's right! Into the tubing!!!
Why won't it go into the brake system? Suzie? Correct! Because the brake system is under 8psi of pressure from the bleeder pump device!
The only time you could have a problem is if you don't tighten the nipple back down before removing the pressure. If you do that, it's possible...Possible, not likely...that you could bleed a little air back in at the nipple after a few seconds.
I've used a vacuum bleeder for years. They work basically the same except that you don't pressurize the inside of the system, you put a vacuum on the nipple side and suck the fluid through. I always see air in the hose. It leaks in from around the nipple or the threads but never gets into the caliper...unless you shut down the vacuum before you tighten the nipple down.
The only other rule is "don't introduce air from the top reservoir". That could happen with my vacuum system if I let the level get too low in the reservoir. Same could happen with pressure bleeder if you let level get to low or even if you pressurize too much. Just follow directions on that and you're golden.
As to the two color system...It doesn't work. Super Blue stains the lines and you get light blue for two more changes. Also stains your bleeder tank.
Read the one about the guy who went into the
porsche
dealer for a new abs unit under warranty and they wouldn't do it because he had blue brake fluid. You want argue that point for a month? Enjoy. It's not worth it.
Just use the clear stuff. If you like ATE, and I do (for DE's on a street car), use the Type 200...Same stuff but clear. It's supposed to be used between Super Blue changes, but really, the blue dye doesn't really work and stains everything. I just use 200.
It's not necessary to get every ounce of fluid out of the system...just the wet stuff in the caliper and near the rubber lines. The upper part of the system doesn't get hot enough to boil. Using teflon/braided brake lines really cuts down on water contamination in the system over time as well.
The point of all this brake bleeding is to make sure you don't go out on the track with 2 -5 year old brake fluid that's been
next
to rubber lines and seals. There's water in that. Water turns to steam, a gas, at 212. This results in brake pedals going to the floor with no braking whatsoever...not a good feeling in Turn 1, I can tell you...
(I've got stories about DE students that will curl your hair...but that's another tale for another day.)
..but it's not one of those hyper-critical operations where you need to get every drop of the old out. Just the parts near the brakes.
It's my experience that contaminated fluid is a little darker in color anyway, so you know when that's gone.
If you run a liter of fluid through your brake system on one of these little cars from Yurrop, you've done enough. If you're doing this more than once a year, you've certainly done enough because the "old" stuff won't be very old. If you're boiling fluid after regular changes of 1 liter, you have another problem, like no brake cooling, too small brakes, wrong pads etc.
-Six
Prepping my own cars for track use for over 20 years without problems.
Yes, although I've never heard of anyone actually torquing them.
It's 6 - 9 ft/lb.
Six's comments re: air bubbles are right on. Not a concern, your Motive has the system pressurized. However, I find alternating between ATE 200 (amber) & ATE Blue easier, but YMMV.
BTW, try higher pressure (I use 12psi) in the Motive for faster, better flow. If you'll be using it empty (as I do), install an inline plastic valve in the outlet line so you can remove the MC cap without losing pressure in the Motive. Saves time and effort.
I torque them properly every time using a crows foot and the wrench set to 96 lb-in.
Cheers,
My dealer actually puts ATE blue fluid in for me. The service manager is a track guy himself.
