PCGB TRACK DAY DONINGTON PARK - TUESDAY 15TH - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Who’s going?

Yep.

Me ...

I’ll be there

Yep

TDT said: Who’s going? Save me a garage space

23wn_4f2 said: Save me a garage space Sure thing.

What is the score with garages?

First come, first served

TDT said: First come, first served Cheers! Easy start then

Anyone know if it’s the GP or National layout?

rrroro said: Anyone know if it’s the GP or National layout? Usually the National

Twinfan said: rrroro said: Anyone know if it’s the GP or National layout? Usually the National Nice one, I hope so

Cracking day yesterday - perfect weather, track not too busy (especially in the afternoon) and pretty good driving all round. Blummin' loved it Good to see you T, as always

Yes the day really quietened down in the afternoon but there were parts of the day that I thought were quite busy ... There were some very fast cars there and I am guessing it could have been a bit of a challenge for some of the slower / less experienced / new drivers ... who if they waited into the afternoon would I am sure have had a lot more fun. I think with the latest GT cars the range of performance has become much wider so I do wonder if we are moving more towards sessioned days .... or half days driving but full days looking at cars and chatting when not on track ? I know that Steve Kevlin did try a day where he asked people not to overtake from the lift for Craners right through to Macleans, but for many that just ruined the circuit. The good news was that the weather was good, there were no red flags and apart from tyre wear and the fuel cost at 50p per litre more than supermarket, it was another tremendous day.

Never been to a PCGB track day but it has always been surprising that they don't run sessions either by class or experience. Thought that was pretty standard on most track days. Should at least let the newbies get out & get used to everything rather than a massively busy track

Some events they session. Others they don’t. Depends on circuit limits and number of people booked on. The club has also arrange dedicated newbie days.

Yes PCGB days are the most well mannered days and kindest on beginners , which is great as no one going for a time really it is meant to be the fun factor and banter....... those in the know always stick it out for that last hour for a bit of extra pace

Sessions would ruin it IMHO, and I'm a relative newbie to track days. Open pit lane for the win.

Twinfan said: Sessions would ruin it IMHO, and I'm a relative newbie to track days. Open pit lane for the win. Much more fun for you this year than your first time at Donny, right?

TDT said: Much more fun for you this year than your first time at Donny, right? Just a bit! I'm a little bit more used to the car, traffic, track days, track driving etc now plus there were definitely fewer cars than 2 years ago. I had a belting day, really really good.

ChrisW. said: Yes the day really quietened down in the afternoon but there were parts of the day that I thought were quite busy ... There were some very fast cars there and I am guessing it could have been a bit of a challenge for some of the slower / less experienced / new drivers ... who if they waited into the afternoon would I am sure have had a lot more fun. I think with the latest GT cars the range of performance has become much wider so I do wonder if we are moving more towards sessioned days .... or half days driving but full days looking at cars and chatting when not on track ? I know that Steve Kevlin did try a day where he asked people not to overtake from the lift for Craners right through to Macleans, but for many that just ruined the circuit. The good news was that the weather was good, there were no red flags and apart from tyre wear and the fuel cost at 50p per litre more than supermarket, it was another tremendous day. Lift?

and TTIUWP

Changes do need to be made. I was removed from the afternoon session given the reason “you’re too fast for the day and these days are not designed for you” an absolute joke tbh. A Porsche only track day whilst driving a Porsche. I wasn’t flagged once by track officials so there was not one incident of dangerous driving observed by experienced staff. I have to say that there was some really poor driving on track and multiple drivers not checking mirrors etc. I have attended my fair share of track days over the years and I must say I have never experienced any such drama before or a bulk of slow drivers thinking they are quick. No wonder Clio drivers on other track days think they can take down Porsche’

992RS said: Changes do need to be made. I was removed from the afternoon session given the reason “you’re too fast for the day and these days are not designed for you” an absolute joke tbh. A Porsche only track day whilst driving a Porsche. I wasn’t flagged once by track officials so there was not one incident of dangerous driving observed by experienced staff. I have to say that there was some really poor driving on track and multiple drivers not checking mirrors etc. I have attended my fair share of track days over the years and I must say I have never experienced any such drama before or a bulk of slow drivers thinking they are quick. No wonder Clio drivers on other track days think they can take down Porsche’ I think the reason you were given, or how you've interpreted it, was incorrect as I believe the PCGB team received quite a few complaints about your driving standards from attendees. Overtaking without the clear consent of the driver in front, for example. This is a firm safety-based rule on PCGB days due to the very mixed levels of ability and experience. Other days of course may, and probably will, vary in how they operate with regards to overtakes. I certainly didn't appreciate finding you squeezing between me and the pit lane entrance/pit wall (with no signal from me for you to do so) while I was taking the first opportunity to move to the left and overtake a car that had taken the final chicane pretty slowly. I nearly drove into the side of you as we ended up three abreast.

992RS said: Changes do need to be made. I was removed from the afternoon session given the reason “you’re too fast for the day and these days are not designed for you” an absolute joke tbh. A Porsche only track day whilst driving a Porsche. I wasn’t flagged once by track officials so there was not one incident of dangerous driving observed by experienced staff. I have to say that there was some really poor driving on track and multiple drivers not checking mirrors etc. I have attended my fair share of track days over the years and I must say I have never experienced any such drama before or a bulk of slow drivers thinking they are quick. No wonder Clio drivers on other track days think they can take down Porsche’ Have you asked for a refund? I would know this isn’t really helpful but it really goats me when I’ve done PCGB day that you just think they can change the format on the day. Out of interest where you in a 992 RS and what sort of lap times did you manage? My 997 GT3 can manage 1:19 but expect your will be closer to 1:10 or less which is huge difference but no more than a radical

Twinfan said: I think the reason you were given, or how you've interpreted it, was incorrect as I believe the PCGB team received quite a few complaints about your driving standards from attendees. Overtaking without the clear consent of the driver in front, for example. This is a firm safety-based rule on PCGB days due to the very mixed levels of ability and experience. Other days of course may, and probably will, vary in how they operate with regards to overtakes. I certainly didn't appreciate finding you squeezing between me and the pit lane entrance/pit wall (with no signal from me for you to do so) while I was taking the first opportunity to move to the left and overtake a car that had taken the final chicane pretty slowly. I nearly drove into the side of you as we ended up three abreast. I have watched all my footage back and I think you’re dramatising me passing you a little bit! I’m guessing you’re in a yellow GT4. It was nowhere near three abreast, in fact you had pulled out far too early to pass the car in front, and you put yourself in that position. You mentioned indication which you didn’t do yourself to indicate you were passing a car in front but you was expecting me to do it?! The chap in the briefing said not to indicate, which I don’t tend to do anyway. I think it’s always obviously that a car closing you down quickly wants to be past and I always personally move out of the way. It goes back to track experience and different abilities. Honestly I have never once felt the need to go and tell tales even when I have been pissed off, what a load of old fish wives people are. The way most talk on here I thought there would have been more decent drivers tbh!

[quote=FL Racing] Have you asked for a refund? I would know this isn’t really helpful but it really goats me when I’ve done PCGB day that you just think they can change the format on the day. Out of interest were you in a 992 RS and what sort of lap times did you manage? My 997 GT3 can manage 1:19 but expect your will be closer to 1:10 or less which is huge difference but no more than a radical Thanks! Yes I was in a 992 RS, it was far too busy to get any real clear laps in, in the morning. I was looking forward to the afternoon session to push it but it never happened. As for timing it isn’t allowed

992RS said: I have watched all my footage back and I think you’re dramatising me passing you a little bit! I’m guessing you’re in a yellow GT4. It was nowhere near three abreast, in fact you had pulled out far too early to pass the car in front, and you put yourself in that position. You mentioned indication which you didn’t do yourself to indicate you were passing a car in front but you was expecting me to do it?! The chap in the briefing said not to indicate, which I don’t tend to do anyway. I think it’s always obviously that a car closing you down quickly wants to be past and I always personally move out of the way. It goes back to track experience and different abilities. Honestly I have never once felt the need to go and tell tales even when I have been pissed off, what a load of old fish wives people are. The way most talk on here I thought there would have been more decent drivers tbh! Yep, that was me and I don't need to indicate left to overtake. I should indicate right to tell you that you can overtake me, and I always do, that's how it works. Chris from PCGB clarified this after the MSV guy said indicating to allow a pass wasn't needed. The MSV guy was wrong, PCGB rules were clarified immediately afterwards. So you misread and misunderstood my post above re. indication and the same goes for the track day briefing on the day. I guess this is why people were unhappy with your driving.

Twinfan said: Yep, that was me and I don't need to indicate left to overtake. I should indicate right to tell you that you can overtake me, and I always do, that's how it works. Chris from PCGB clarified this after the MSV guy said indicating to allow a pass wasn't needed. The MSV guy was wrong, PCGB rules were clarified immediately afterwards. So you misread and misunderstood my post above re. indication and the same goes for the track day briefing on the day. I guess this is why people were unhappy with your driving. Don’t worry I won’t be doing a PCGB track day again so you’re safe, as I don’t want to be around drivers like yourself who are slow and unpredictable. I am happy to send you the footage to review that you had ample time to let me past and still pass the car in front of you which you in fact did. There was no issue with the stewards at the circuit etc. You just felt the need to go off moaning like your other cronies- talk about a bunch of old women! As I have said I am very experienced on track and have NEVER known this to happen before. PCGB have reacted to complaints from inexperienced drivers rather than being updated by Marshall’s who clearly didn’t have or see anything out of the ordinary. Go and figure. I’m not getting into this with you all day as I can tell the character you are and it’s not worth my time. Cheers

992RS said: Don’t worry I won’t be doing a PCGB track day again so you’re safe, as I don’t want to be around drivers like yourself who are slow and unpredictable. I am happy to send you the footage to review that you had ample time to let me past and still pass the car in front of you which you in fact did. There was no issue with the stewards at the circuit etc. You just felt the need to go off moaning like your other cronies- talk about a bunch of old women! As I have said I am very experienced on track and have NEVER known this to happen before. PCGB have reacted to complaints from inexperienced drivers rather than being updated by Marshall’s who clearly didn’t have or see anything out of the ordinary. Go and figure. I’m not getting into this with you all day as I can tell the character you are and it’s not worth my time. Cheers And you clearly think bullies in faster cars should have priority over everyone else. I don't. Have some respect for others who, as Chris from PCGB said, have paid the same as you for the opportunity to enjoy their car on track - whatever that car and their skill level may be. I may be slower than you, and that's down to both car and driver, but I'm not unpredictable. Tim Harvey had no issues passing me a couple of times and I'm pretty sure he can drive quicker than you. After I had passed the car in front of me I would have moved over for you but you didn't give me chance. You didn't understand the rules and made up your own, then proceeded to have two complaints against you followed by warnings in the morning and then two back-to-back straight after lunch. That's at least four people who thought you weren't driving to the correct standard and you did not change your driving after being spoken to. That's not cricket IMHO.

Twinfan said: And you clearly think bullies in faster cars should have priority over everyone else. I don't. Have some respect for others who, as Chris from PCGB said, have paid the same as you for the opportunity to enjoy their car on track - whatever that car and their skill level may be. I may be slower than you, and that's down to both car and driver, but I'm not unpredictable. Tim Harvey had no issues passing me a couple of times and I'm pretty sure he can drive quicker than you. After I had passed the car in front of me I would have moved over for you but you didn't give me chance. You didn't understand the rules and made up your own, then proceeded to have two complaints against you followed by warnings in the morning and then two back-to-back straight after lunch. That's at least four people who thought you weren't driving to the correct standard and you did not change your driving after being spoken to. That's not cricket IMHO. I bet you haven’t got a fit Mrs!

992RS said: I bet you haven’t got a fit Mrs! Losing the argument and can't play the ball so tries to play the man instead eh? Top work

992 you can always give the Carrera Cup a go where timing is everything , these track days are for everyone and been super safe and successful for that reasons because they are well monitored . This has been learnt over 40 years , and faster cars/drivers know this and respect it .

Twinfan said: Losing the argument and can't play the ball so tries to play the man instead eh? Top work I disagree with you, I just don't want to play internet tennis when we clearly won't see eye to eye. As said MSV staff were happy with my driving (not communicated otherwise)and unfortunately the fish wives and cronies were not and they went off to tell the teacher.

hunter 66 said: 992 you can always give the Carrera Cup a go where timing is everything , these track days are for everyone and been super safe and successful for that reasons because they are well monitored . This has been learnt over 40 years , and faster cars/drivers know this and respect it . Totally agree the days are heavily monitored by marshalls and on camera by MSV and there were no issues raised by the professionals. Other than hear say from disgruntled drivers who probably don't do many track days and truly know how to drive on them. I had offered to share my footage with PCGB but they were only interested in hear say and not the actual facts to determine any fair outcome.

992RS said: I bet you haven’t got a fit Mrs! I'm always impressed at how some people (presumably functioning adults but maybe not) can behave on forums.....

To be fair to teacher, he's dealing with a mixed ability class. It's no an easy job. Bottom line, he just has to take everyone's money and get them on track. Sounds easy, but it's nigh on impossible to do without upsetting someone. TBF I wasn't there, but seen it all before. That said, IME a bit more specific coaching about blue flags and the subtle, but noble art of lifting to let cars that are persistently in your mirrors (yes, definitely look at those) past, would not hurt or add too much time to the briefing. See also anticipating that just because you are catching a car does not mean they are not similarly lining-up an overtake on the car they are catching too.

Well, at least there were no Red Flags!

TDT said: Well, at least there were no Red Flags! Yep, it was great to have a totally flag free day wasn't it?

Twinfan said: TDT said: Well, at least there were no Red Flags! Yep, it was great to have a totally flag free day wasn't it? Getting a place on the day would have been a start. This was one of the various PCGB days that, as I was otherwise occupied in early December, I missed out on booking. I did get a reserve space email. On the day... unfortunate. First world problems etc.

Digga said: To be fair to teacher, he's dealing with a mixed ability class. It's no an easy job. Bottom line, he just has to take everyone's money and get them on track. Sounds easy, but it's nigh on impossible to do without upsetting someone. TBF I wasn't there, but seen it all before. That said, IME a bit more specific coaching about blue flags and the subtle, but noble art of lifting to let cars that are persistently in your mirrors (yes, definitely look at those) past, would not hurt or add too much time to the briefing. See also anticipating that just because you are catching a car does not mean they are not similarly lining-up an overtake on the car they are catching too. Yep, this is all spot on. Lifting to allow another car to overtake was covered, and I do this quite obviously, but not everyone does it quite enough. When there are lots of similarly powered cars around you can't just floor it and get past. Anticipating should definitely be covered too, I agree.

I love doing PCGB track days but it can be a problem when the really fast GT cars try and bully the not so fast cars. It happened to me at Anglesey, with GT3's overtaking in braking zones and not giving the slower cars chance to pull over safely. It does put me off doing them a bit now. I think drivers have every right to complain if other drivers are being dangerous.

Drivers have every right to complain, whatever the situation, if they are not happy. It's then up to the TDO to asses whether the problem is as the driver sees it, or if, in fact it's they who is the problem. Everyone pays the same money.

À la recherche du temps perdu. PCGB. Brands May 2007. Friendly people, circuit not too busy, 260bhp more that enough for a good day out.

isaldiri said: I'm always impressed at how some people (presumably functioning adults but maybe not) can behave on forums..... Fair enough it was a low blow! There are always two sides to every story and I can't be doing with all the tell tales and their cronies ganging up with the organisers who clearly all know one another well, either in person or on forums. What was clear is that PCGB are totally unprofessional telling members that I had been warned numerous times and on a final warning etc- only for one of them to then go and report me again knowing it would have me removed for absolutely NORMAL track day driving on any other day. I even had comments at lunch by fellow drivers (banter) that I was a naughty boy etc and needed to slow down or was getting kicked off. I honestly don't know what the big deal was and why such a drama was created and also why PCGB would be so unprofessional in disclosing information. I would literally do a session and 10 minutes later after getting back to the pits, the organisers would warn me without any such evidence all based on hear say. If it was actually anything that didn't meet track standards I would of been flagged in there and then... It is that simple.

lowndes said: À la recherche du temps perdu. PCGB. Brands May 2007. Friendly people, circuit not too busy, 260bhp more that enough for a good day out. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

992RS said: hunter 66 said: 992 you can always give the Carrera Cup a go where timing is everything , these track days are for everyone and been super safe and successful for that reasons because they are well monitored . This has been learnt over 40 years , and faster cars/drivers know this and respect it . Totally agree the days are heavily monitored by marshalls and on camera by MSV and there were no issues raised by the professionals. Other than hear say from disgruntled drivers who probably don't do many track days and truly know how to drive on them. I had offered to share my footage with PCGB but they were only interested in hear say and not the actual facts to determine any fair outcome. If only circuit staff did monitor more closely,we had some dicks on our annual rs day,running 22 years with out little trouble,just need a couple of hotheads to spoil every ones day,they are now banned.Track days are for all especially novices/newcomers at our rs day,it dont take much to give them space or allow them to make a mistake or two. Pcgb normally run a good day and have witnessed some big accidents over the years,especially the gt2 that left the circuit at combe because of another car crossed its path,but i wonder who was at fault!

Ref driving standards and etiquette… I can appreciate both sides of the discussion. That said, on a club day. If you’re quick or have a quick car. Just be chilled in the AM. Have fun. Be quick where you can and then wait for happy hours in the afternoon. As others have said, the club days choose to try to cater for a wide range of ability and pace… and inevitably there will be mainly figurative ‘clashes’. The club does now offer novice/newer driver days. Maybe we can suggest they also do a handful of faster pace days with freer overtaking…. Still left side only maybe. Fast guys can then book on those. But if newer/slower drivers choose to also book on those and then take issue with being passed or ‘close-followed’, then they forfeit their rights, as it’s their error of judgement. It’s fine balance really. From the faster guys POV… I can imagine they might say why are they being pushed out of club days?… and the newer/slower drivers also lose out as they then don’t have anyone to learn /pick up tips from. Also the faster cars tend to be some of the more special ones… so you lose those from club days also. Edited by TDT on Thursday 17th August 16:22

992RS said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpzl9hUe6tE This was my last session and the reason I was kicked off... I was actually going a lot easier than the morning due to the request of PCGB, hence my frustration and disappointment. On any other non novice track day- and I have done many this wouldn't of been an issue. Not much wrong with that,apart from tidying your lines up surprised you got kicked off with that especially with so few cars on track,i did skip some of the vid though!Maybe send to pcgb and ask why. Shame those cars are automatic.

[quote=Yellow491] Not much wrong with that,apart from tidying your lines up surprised you got kicked off with that especially with so few cars on track,i did skip some of the vid though!Maybe send to pcgb and ask why. Shame those cars are automatic. Cheers Senna

TDT said: Personally saw no issues there at all - apart the Red 997 not recognising that I was fully pulled over to the right on a go slow due to technical issue and had indicator on - and still wouldn't pass me - causing a frustration to you. I could see both him and you in the mirror and expect them to pass me before the corner and that would free the road for you - instead they loitered and made a pigs ear of it for all three of use - I took to the inside just to try to be clear out of the way. He did eventually indicate and move over Yeah that is what it is! You were one of the good ones there in my eyes- my friend in the black 4RS said you had a great battle together. Edited by TDT on Thursday 17th August 17:15

992RS said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpzl9hUe6tE This was my last session and the reason I was kicked off... I was actually going a lot easier than the morning due to the request of PCGB, hence my frustration and disappointment. On any other non novice track day- and I have done many this wouldn't of been an issue. Personally saw no issues there at all - apart the Red 997 not recognising that I was fully pulled over to the right on a go slow due to technical issue and had indicator on - and still wouldn't pass me - causing a frustration to you. I could see both him and you in the mirror and expect them to pass me before the corner and that would free the road for you - instead they loitered and made a pigs ear of it for all three of us - I took to the inside just to try to be clear out of the way. He did eventually indicate and move over Edited by TDT on Thursday 17th August 17:22

992RS said: TDT said: Personally saw no issues there at all - apart the Red 997 not recognising that I was fully pulled over to the right on a go slow due to technical issue and had indicator on - and still wouldn't pass me - causing a frustration to you. I could see both him and you in the mirror and expect them to pass me before the corner and that would free the road for you - instead they loitered and made a pigs ear of it for all three of use - I took to the inside just to try to be clear out of the way. He did eventually indicate and move over Yeah that is what it is! You were one of the good ones there in my eyes- my friend in the black 4RS said you had a great battle together. Thanks - Yep the little tussle we had was great fun. Shame we couldn't go to the championship rounds in the afternoon. Another time.

992RS said: Yellow491 said: Not much wrong with that,apart from tidying your lines up surprised you got kicked off with that especially with so few cars on track,i did skip some of the vid though!Maybe send to pcgb and ask why. Shame those cars are automatic. Cheers Senna Your welcome If you can be bothered i would send it to them,afterall you are a customer.

TDT said: Personally saw no issues there at all I'd agree with that as well per the posted video but also worth noting that sometimes to those who don't do quite so many trackdays, closing speeds like at times in the video and sitting close to wait to nip by can probably be a little bit unsettling which can get some people a little antsy so a bit of circumspection on everyone's side perhaps would help I suppose....

PCGB rules are overtake by invitation. I didn't see any invitation to cut the nose off the red 997 at the chicane at 12 mins-ish? That may have caused the driver some concern, there had been a bit of traffic and I assume they were hoping to get back on line at some point.

Twinfan said: PCGB rules are overtake by invitation. . I understand what you’re saying. But with the best will in the world, taken to its logical conclusion with some of the egos… a club day could quickly turn into a day of processional parade laps, as nobody will indicate to allow another to overtake. It bad enough when we have people thinking that +500hp means that nothing else could possibly stick with them for 3 laps straight, and therefore will not lift to allow a safe pass.

Twinfan said: PCGB rules are overtake by invitation. I didn't see any invitation to cut the nose off the red 997 at the chicane at 12 mins-ish? That may have caused the driver some concern, there had been a bit of traffic and I assume they were hoping to get back on line at some point. I thought passing you was the initial issue? As you can see you are offline for overtaking so it’s on you that one!

Can't see anything wrong with the camera cars driving. Perhaps the other drivers should be penalised for driving so slow (read poorly), and impeding the progress of others?

BucksFizz said: Can't see anything wrong with the camera cars driving. Perhaps the other drivers should be penalised for driving so slow (read poorly), and impeding the progress of others? It's an all comers track day, not a quali session...

Twinfan said: It's an all comers track day, not a quali session... Out of interest how many none PCGB track days have you done?

I did overs 100 TDs by other organisers before a mate dragged me a long to a PCGB day at Anglesey a few years back. I was surprised how slow most cars where. Don’t consider myself quick, just arrange but a lot of nice cars been driven well within there limits. If you haven’t done other operator day May pay to give one a go to expand your view what is safe or not, can’t see anything wrong with 992RS driving apart from using a GT car as intended.

Twinfan said: It's an all comers track day, not a quali session... Correct and the quicker cars have paid the same money as others and why should they have there day ruined by people who can’t use their mirrors

Yellow491 said: Looking forward to it mate,its a tuff track to learn,did we get a nice place with a pool etc. Yup , House and a flat nearby .........last sector is the tough bit

FL Racing said: Twinfan said: It's an all comers track day, not a quali session... Correct and the quicker cars have paid the same money as others and why should they have there day ruined by people who can’t use their mirrors If its caught you up, its quicker than you, so let it past. It's a simple track day rule to live by, unfortunately too many people have their thumb up their arse and their mind in neutral.

992RS said: Twinfan! I got in trouble for this too, I hold my hands up that passing on the right isn’t allowed but I thought you were going off track and me nipping by was the safest option! Get some camber on the car (friendly smiley face) https://youtu.be/jc_VcE9ZDWo I remember that and thought it was you that did it - I'd outbraked myself at the end of the straight. I had no issues with your overtake, I'd clearly screwed up and you took advantage. If someone took offence at it that wasn't me

Yellow491 said: DMC2 said: cseven said: Good grief why do people buy gt cars when their abilities are so low? I was tempted to do a pcgb track day but these videos have really put me off. If I wanted to follow a pipe and slipper brigade for lap after lap I’d simply sit on the m25. Better off buying a much slower/cheaper car and getting instruction on how to actually drive than owning a GT product Why are you all so tough on the slow cars,they have a right to learn and to improve.I remember my first track day,i was almost to scared to take my eye off the track to look in the mirror, and im sure some of you would have been the same. It’s normally a good idea if first time at the circuit to have a instructor out with them,and or session the first hour,so that all the senna wannabes can have a session to wear off some of there ego or drive faster,and the newcomers have a chance to learn to make a better day for all. A first timer at donny, has to try and learn the lines, watch out for the faster cars, learn to exercise his peripheral vision and also indicate, thats a steep learning curve for most folk. Yes everybody has a right to learn, but my issue is with people buying a GT car (which is a weapon) when they would be better is something more to their skill level. And learn to drive. GT cars seem to have become the posers car of choice. All race boots and no talent.

FL Racing said: Twinfan said: It's an all comers track day, not a quali session... Correct and the quicker cars have paid the same money as others and why should they have there day ruined by people who can’t use their mirrors It works both ways though doesn't it? The novices or those who can't/won't/don't drive at the highest speeds shouln't be made uncomfortable while enjoying their cars. As isaldiri said earlier, on PCGB days you have to realise that the two ends of the scale are quite extreme and there has to be tolerance from and to all.

FL Racing said: I did overs 100 TDs by other organisers before a mate dragged me a long to a PCGB day at Anglesey a few years back. I was surprised how slow most cars where. Don’t consider myself quick, just arrange but a lot of nice cars been driven well within there limits. If you haven’t done other operator day May pay to give one a go to expand your view what is safe or not, can’t see anything wrong with 992RS driving apart from using a GT car as intended. I think you may be misunderstanding what happened. I didn't say 992RS wasn't safe, or driving well, I said that I thought it was contrary to the rules in place on that specific day. Comparisons to the Nordschleife or an RMA day at Spa aren't really relevant.

DMC2 said: Yes everybody has a right to learn, but my issue is with people buying a GT car (which is a weapon) when they would be better is something more to their skill level. And learn to drive. GT cars seem to have become the posers car of choice. All race boots and no talent. Not untrue but equally, people who do end up buying nice cars because, er they can, I suppose shouldn't be faulted for wanting to start somewhere in learning to drive that car well. Not everyone will have the time or space to buy, say,a caterham on top of said nice car to get acquainted with track driving until they becomes 'worthy' of driving a GT car on track for instance. Slower drivers on track are just a fact of life for those with more experience going faster - as long as they aren't being actively difficult to others (or have been total braggarts on forums like some previous PH posters....) I think one should live and let live. I won't fault someone for at least using his car on track.

Over the years , tyre and car performance of road ( Track focused ) cars has leapt , to what we have now which are more like race cars , performance wise . And yes anyone can buy one , the Porsche club days are for the benefit of the many so yes letting them use their cars legally to a higher level. If you want to push harder, traffic is always an issue as it is about linking all the corners and there are specific tracks days for these , sadly these now have many GT3 race cars so to stakes are raised . It is what it is .

I personally do not have a problem with slower drivers on track and credit to anyone taking out their pride n joy- certainly better than having a garage queen. I have plenty of patience for slower drivers whilst they learn and do actually try to make sure I get past in a reasonable way (for one I don’t want to trash my car), but I can’t hang around forever when there is an opportunity to pass safely just because they have not indicated to let me past. It’s very obvious that my approach speed is higher and had they of been checking their mirrors it’s normally clear that I’m wanting to come past. What boils my blood is when novice drivers in numbers run off to the TDO to make complaints, when it’s they who are in the wrong most of the time for not checking their mirrors and track position and then they blame the other driver because they get startled! It’s time for people to grow some balls and use common sense on TD’s. If you can’t I’d suggest novice only days or airfield days until your confidence grows and you actually learn right from wrong. This is the process I followed back in the day. I also agree about drivers getting experience with other TDO to see what the differences are- no disrespect but if you are wanting to find the limits of your car and get better you’re wasting your time with PCGB. If you want your eyes opening closer to home rather than on TF at the ring try Cadwell Park with Javelin. If you think passing at Donington is too close for comfort wait for a track width just enough for two 911’s and fast drivers in Clio’s and Evo’s hunting you down- you may then realise how respectful I was on the day! Because in truth I was on my best behaviour and it still wasn’t up to the fanny standards of PCGB… My next day out after my hols is at SPA with RMA - talk about one extreme to the other after Donington Park with PCGB! Disclaimer - This is my general thoughts not targeted at any one individual.

In defence of pcgb days,they have run some great days,and to get donny as empty as in the vid can be a great bonus.My last rma day i said never again,there were more red flags than a bullfight, along with some wreckless driving,one reason alot pcgb members choose to do the club days as it’s normally a safer day for the pride and joy. Good on them to take a gt on track for the first time,as the club says there is always a risk involved If you want to get near race pace all day,just get a race licence and do some test days,some of the donny noisy test days are great,out with some great company on track and not many red flags normally.

Yellow491 said: In defence of pcgb days,they have run some great days,and to get donny as empty as in the vid can be a great bonus.My last rma day i said never again,there were more red flags than a bullfight, along with some wreckless driving,one reason alot pcgb members choose to do the club days as it’s normally a safer day for the pride and joy. Good on them to take a gt on track for the first time,as the club says there is always a risk involved If you want to get near race pace all day,just get a race licence and do some test days,some of the donny noisy test days are great,out with some great company on track and not many red flags normally. There are pros and cons with everything. If it wasn’t for the BS removing me from the day it would have been fine. I could have complained after every session about driving standards - but I’m not like that. But I suppose that’s the members complaining rather than the day itself. As for test days I agree to a point but what’s the point of the RS? I’d might aswell buy a cup car and go all out. Surly the the RS is designed to be driven hard on a track day rather than on test/race days? It can all work in harmony with common sense which a lot are lacking. I do stand by my comments that if you want to improve and your objective is to be a decent track day driver you need to look elsewhere- as you will find yourself removed for over taking people unless they indicate on an PCGB day. But if you want to potter around it’s a great day but it needs to be advertised this way.

TDO’s have the impossible job of pleasing everyone. IME it’s far, far more likely that the slower drivers complain to them. It’s understandable - it’s probably far more of a deal being scared by an overtake than slightly frustrated about a car not allowing you past safely.

992RS said: Yellow491 said: In defence of pcgb days,they have run some great days,and to get donny as empty as in the vid can be a great bonus.My last rma day i said never again,there were more red flags than a bullfight, along with some wreckless driving,one reason alot pcgb members choose to do the club days as it’s normally a safer day for the pride and joy. Good on them to take a gt on track for the first time,as the club says there is always a risk involved If you want to get near race pace all day,just get a race licence and do some test days,some of the donny noisy test days are great,out with some great company on track and not many red flags normally. There are pros and cons with everything. If it wasn’t for the BS removing me from the day it would have been fine. I could have complained after every session about driving standards - but I’m not like that. But I suppose that’s the members complaining rather than the day itself. As for test days I agree to a point but what’s the point of the RS? I’d might aswell buy a cup car and go all out. Surly the the RS is designed to be driven hard on a track day rather than on test/race days? It can all work in harmony with common sense which a lot are lacking. I do stand by my comments that if you want to improve and your objective is to be a decent track day driver you need to look elsewhere- as you will find yourself removed for over taking people unless they indicate on an PCGB day. But if you want to potter around it’s a great day but it needs to be advertised this way. I get all that for sure,thats what rma used to be good at having fast days,overtaking both sides but not being a dick.I dont agree with indicating either as its something else for the new person to think about and do,when just moving over is sufficient. Just saying a noisy test day at donny is a good place to be normally with a fast car. Anyway enjoy your car and dont get to frustrated with it all

992RS said: As for test days I agree to a point but what’s the point of the RS? I’d might aswell buy a cup car and go all out. Surly the the RS is designed to be driven hard on a track day rather than on test/race days? I'd usually have agreed with that but tbh the 992rs has made that different in today's world. The capability of the car and especially the way it delivers that performance ie braking and cornering is such that your closing speeds and esp where you close up to other 'normal' cars at a trackday becomes quite different. Ok with cup2r admittedly but a 992rs isn't all that far off cup car pace (which is quite frankly astonishing) so for a capable driver, a test day might now be a much more natural environment in mixing with other cars of similar performance/mentality.

I agree, I think you have to match the car and driver combo with the day. In today's world I suspect this may be more important that it's ever been? PCGB days aren't really going to be the best match for a fast driver with the very latest kit who wants to get consistent fast laps in. That's not what they're about: https://www.porscheclubgb.com/motorsport/track-day... "With Porsche Club trackdays you can forget about the restrictions of the public road and enjoy your Porsche in a safe and controlled environment. Above all, they provide an opportunity for owners to have fun and enjoy their cars at a speed they find comfortable. There is never any pressure to go faster, just to enjoy the experience."

isaldiri said: 992RS said: As for test days I agree to a point but what’s the point of the RS? I’d might aswell buy a cup car and go all out. Surly the the RS is designed to be driven hard on a track day rather than on test/race days? I'd usually have agreed with that but tbh the 992rs has made that different in today's world. The capability of the car and especially the way it delivers that performance ie braking and cornering is such that your closing speeds and esp where you close up to other 'normal' cars at a trackday becomes quite different. Ok with cup2r admittedly but a 992rs isn't all that far off cup car pace (which is quite frankly astonishing) so for a capable driver, a test day might now be a much more natural environment in mixing with other cars of similar performance/mentality. This is partly why stuff like Radicals are banned on many road car track days. Their pace and also their low height (makes them very hard to spot on corner entry/apex in an ordinary car) combine to be a sub optimal mix.

Digga said: his is partly why stuff like Radicals are banned on many road car track days. Their pace and also their low height (makes them very hard to spot on corner entry/apex in an ordinary car) combine to be a sub optimal mix. I once took my radical Sr3rs on a Dony track day with BaT I think. What a stupid idea. Of course not a single clear lap all day. Just to the other point about where to run a 992 RS, can it run on a test day, does it have enough stuff to qualify as a race car?

BertBert said: I once took my radical Sr3rs on a Dony track day with BaT I think. What a stupid idea. Of course not a single clear lap all day. Just to the other point about where to run a 992 RS, can it run on a test day, does it have enough stuff to qualify as a race car? I thought you could run anything you wanted on a test day. Typically not a road car as you'd be swamped but if you wished, don't think it's an issue?

Goldtrack day a few years ago.

Digga said: This is partly why stuff like Radicals are banned on many road car track days. Their pace and also their low height (makes them very hard to spot on corner entry/apex in an ordinary car) combine to be a sub optimal mix. Yep. Well remembered.

isaldiri said: 992RS said: As for test days I agree to a point but what’s the point of the RS? I’d might aswell buy a cup car and go all out. Surly the the RS is designed to be driven hard on a track day rather than on test/race days? I'd usually have agreed with that but tbh the 992rs has made that different in today's world. The capability of the car and especially the way it delivers that performance ie braking and cornering is such that your closing speeds and esp where you close up to other 'normal' cars at a trackday becomes quite different. Ok with cup2r admittedly but a 992rs isn't all that far off cup car pace (which is quite frankly astonishing) so for a capable driver, a test day might now be a much more natural environment in mixing with other cars of similar performance/mentality. Having never owned either I suspect the Cup car is a long way from arrive and drive.

Test days are different again IMO, and don’t you have to have ARDS? I’m not sure they are suitable for road cars… and 992 3RS is still a road car. Ultimately it’s about picking the right kind of event for the car and driver. Bit of trial and error involved. Most people have no idea about formats before venturing onto their first track day. My 1st trackday driving my 981 GT4 at the time was back in 2018. I wrote about it here https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... PCGB trackday. I was a member, but I just rocked up, with no helmet or any gear. I asked if I could driving me in the afternoon and they said yes and let me book on. They had a stall selling equipment so I bought a helmet on the spot and asked for an instructor. We went out. Baptism of fire. Nervous, intimidated and excited all at the same time, and haven’t looked back since. I did a few more club events, BUT it was once I did trackdays with other organisers that my eyes were opened. So we all start somewhere, I found the club days to be a good starting point and continue to support club days because of the start they gave me. I leave my ego at home on trackday, as there is always a bigger fish. I take joy in trying to go fast and lap by lap trying to extend my personal boundary and limit and learning from others. Edited by TDT on Saturday 19th August 12:22

As one of the slower cars on Tuesday the tussle of the two RS cars was inspiring to watch. But being slow can also be frustrating when caught by a string of other cars and just when you feel you’ve a nice line you feel you should pull over to let them through and you lose half a lap with your indicator on. But at least then you’ve someone to chase after to try and improve. Everyone had to learn at one time and overall the PCGB days offer a great experience. Edited by Sawfoot1 on Saturday 19th August 12:32

BobToc said: Having never owned either I suspect the Cup car is a long way from arrive and drive. Oh it most certainly isn't but my point was about outright on track pace

isaldiri said: I thought you could run anything you wanted on a test day. Typically not a road car as you'd be swamped but if you wished, don't think it's an issue? Test days on most circuits require- Race license MSA approved spec car MSA approved protective clothing ie full face suit As said for that hassle I would just use a trailer and use a cup car- yes more prep but so is the day it’s self. The 992 RS isn’t too fast for track days it’s just too fast if you’re a fast driver in it and around slower cars with inexperienced drivers. PCGB isn’t for me but it is for plenty of others. Pretty confident that I have interpreted Mandy’a email to me correctly which implied I’m not welcome again anyway even though I’m a PCGB member No love lost there for me so it won’t be awkward for anyone concerned. As said there were plenty of slower sensible drivers on track with good etiquette and a good few faster drivers which had high experience. It was just spoilt for me by some clueless drivers that thought I was to blame for moral track day driving. God knows what the novice days must be like. Edited by 992RS on Saturday 19th August 12:49

There are ways to address the concerns here about novice drivers gaining experience in a 'safe' track environment. I am involved in organising and running trackdays for another car club and we take this very seriously. Three examples: In our season of around ten trackdays, we dedicate two per year to novice or inexperienced drivers. We structure those days so as to make sure that all novices get at least one instructor session per day (most get more) and we operate in small sized groups and sessions for most of the day. The final hour is a true OPL format (often mixing with more experienced participants who we run in separate, parallel sessions through the day) so the newcomers - having started the day as novices - go home having 'graduated' via a full-on OPL session. Most of our other events start with sessions in the morning (novices in one group, more experienced drivers in the remaining groups) but move to OPL either late in the morning if participants agree or, latest, after lunch for the duration of the afternoon. This approach gives everyone time to find their feet (or burn off excess enthusiasm, whichever...) without materially affecting anyone's track time. On some circuits where speeds are high or other considerations come into play, we advertise the event as being suitable for experienced track drivers only. That works well for everyone. We've found it's very important to encourage novices to gain experience in a safe environment and for them to feel confident about progressing further. Where else will the next generation of paying trackday particpants come from? As far as I know, though, PCGB tends to open the doors to all-comers on most of their trackdays which can have unwanted consequences, as this thread demonstrates. James Edited by short-shift on Saturday 19th August 13:16

992RS said: The 992 RS isn’t too fast for track days it’s just too fast if you’re a fast driver in it and around slower cars with inexperienced drivers. Fair enough I didn't realise the requirements apart from race licence on a test day. I wonder how a friend took his road car on track one time long ago then but nevermind. Regarding the above....well ymmv I guess. I still think the way the 992rs delivers it's capability on track makes for a more difficult time on most 'general' trackdays as compared to something that does lap very quickly but does so at least partially with the advantage of a lot of straight line speed. Good that your usual ones are fine though and it is a pretty neat car that you have.

short-shift said: There are ways to address the concerns here about novice drivers gaining experience in a 'safe' track environment. I am involved in organising and running trackdays for another car club and we take this very seriously. Three examples: In our season of around ten trackdays, we dedicate two per year to novice or inexperienced drivers. We structure those days so as to make sure that all novices get at least one instructor session per day (most get more) and we operate in small sized groups and sessions for most of the day. The final hour is a true OPL format (often mixing with more experienced participants who we run in separate, parallel sessions through the day) so the newcomers - having started the day as novices - go home having 'graduated' via a full-on OPL session. Most of our other events start with sessions in the morning (novices in one group, more experienced drivers in the remaining groups) but move to OPL either late in the morning if participants agree or, latest, after lunch for the duration of the afternoon. This approach gives everyone time to find their feet (or burn off excess enthusiasm, whichever...) without materially affecting anyone's track time. On some circuits where speeds are high or other considerations come into play, we advertise the event as being suitable for experienced track drivers only. That works well for everyone. We've found it's very important to encourage novices to gain experience in a safe environment and for them to feel confident about progressing further. Where else will the next generation of paying trackday particpants come from? As far as I know, though, PCGB tends to open the doors to all-comers on most of their trackdays which can have unwanted consequences, as this thread demonstrates. James Edited by short-shift on Saturday 19th August 13:16 This is very good, and PCGB do operate sessions on a case by case basis dependant on circuit and number of cars… but then also had push back that people like OPL. The other thing is that people would need to be completely honest about their experience and be in the appropriate group. I mentioned this in an earlier post. If you find yourself in the wrong group because you weren’t true to yourself about your level. You lose your right to complain.

This is worth a watch and appropriate.

This was my last session and the reason I was kicked off... I was actually going a lot easier than the morning due to the request of PCGB, hence my frustration and disappointment. On any other non novice track day- and I have done many this wouldn't of been an issue. Edited by 992RS on Saturday 19th August 13:33

Twinfan! I got in trouble for this too, I hold my hands up that passing on the right isn’t allowed but I thought you were going off track and me nipping by was the safest option! Get some camber on the car (friendly smiley face) Edited by 992RS on Friday 18th August 21:40 Edited by 992RS on Saturday 19th August 13:34

This has been an interesting thread to follow… it can be a tricky balance when you mix road cars and race cars on slicks. I remember going to the Goldtrack organizers and saying it would be better to have sessions due to the speed differences (GT3 vs radical at Silverstone maybe 10 years ago). Since then I’ve learned to live with this (and im probably a bit faster myself too…) 992RS said: My next day out after my hols is at SPA with RMA - talk about one extreme to the other after Donington Park with PCGB! Guess I’ll see you there (silver GT4, Swiss plates) Michael

992RS said: isaldiri said: I thought you could run anything you wanted on a test day. Typically not a road car as you'd be swamped but if you wished, don't think it's an issue? Test days on most circuits require- Race license MSA approved spec car MSA approved protective clothing ie full face suit As said for that hassle I would just use a trailer and use a cup car- yes more prep but so is the day it’s self. The 992 RS isn’t too fast for track days it’s just too fast if you’re a fast driver in it and around slower cars with inexperienced drivers. PCGB isn’t for me but it is for plenty of others. Pretty confident that I have interpreted Mandy’a email to me correctly which implied I’m not welcome again anyway even though I’m a PCGB member No love lost there for me so it won’t be awkward for anyone concerned. As said there were plenty of slower sensible drivers on track with good etiquette and a good few faster drivers which had high experience. It was just spoilt for me by some clueless drivers that thought I was to blame for moral track day driving. God knows what the novice days must be like. Edited by 992RS on Saturday 19th August 12:49 Chris talks some sense in the pod cast, especially with new comers,i remember chris and wheel tourque days,great fun,lots of drinkies and good food toped off with some great driving. The rs day at oulton we run,its around chris ethos of a good day, friendly,its not just for fast guys as the internet says, as we welcome new folk to keep the flow of folk coming.It was interesting this year with a cup car on its roof at the end of the pit lane,and some insta person doing a video while answering the phone on track,which is not conducive with the rs day,but fair do to the cup car it was back out on track in the afternoon. For test days,yes you need a ards licence minimum,race gear which a lot of folk have,any clubsport spec car will suffice,no one inspects the cars and its down to you to have the appropriate safety. The latest cup cars now have big service intervals,they dont have to be on slicks,and are a real occasion to drive,a ball ache for some to trailer to a event,hence where a rs steps in.

992RS said: This is worth a watch and appropriate. Yep. When it all started kicking off on this thread I did think back to this. Very timely!

isaldiri said: BobToc said: Having never owned either I suspect the Cup car is a long way from arrive and drive. Oh it most certainly isn't but my point was about outright on track pace Oh sure, maybe I shouldn’t have responded to your post, but was making a point about why OP might want to take an RS on a test day instead of a Cup.

Although as OP has pointed out, road cars aren’t allowed. Oh well.

asbi said: PCGB rules are clear and should have been stated - overtaking on the left by indicated consent and a lift….. Only issue is this doesn’t practically work in reality, and if strictly enforced will turn the events into processions. People fail to indicate and worse, people don’t lift to allow themselves to be overtaken and would rather demonstrate their….poweerrr (sp), in a straight line. Digga’s video exemplifies it… I have plenty of video also showing this type of behaviour. It needs to cut both ways.

[Image-only or quote-only post; no author-written text.] https://thumbsnap.com/sc/VYgbi2CX.jpg

TDT said: asbi said: PCGB rules are clear and should have been stated - overtaking on the left by indicated consent and a lift….. Only issue is this doesn’t practically work in reality, and if strictly enforced will turn the events into processions. People fail to indicate and worse, people don’t lift to allow themselves to be overtaken and would rather demonstrate their….poweerrr (sp), in a straight line. Digga’s video exemplifies it… I have plenty of video also showing this type of behaviour. It needs to cut both ways. But the rules are the rules, you can't just choose to ignore them. If they don't suit you there are other days you can attend. (I'm talking generally here T, not about you directly ). If the rules are that bad, then people need to feed back to the PCGB team.

The rules are not working. If you run a day to that letter it’s at the pace of the lowest common denominator. You end up with stuff queued up behind the slowest cars and, as with your 3-wide situation, you get close calls. It has to be a matter of both push and pull. The faster car always needs to create the safety, but slower cars must actively work to allow cars past safely. That does, unfortunately, mean using mirrors and having some awareness of the fact your car/driving may be faster on a straight than another, but much slower over a lap. If TDOs absolve slower cars of any responsibility then it stops working.

Digga said: The rules are not working. If you run a day to that letter it’s at the pace of the lowest common denominator. You end up with stuff queued up behind the slowest cars and, as with your 3-wide situation, you get close calls. It has to be a matter of both push and pull. The faster car always needs to create the safety, but slower cars must actively work to allow cars past safely. That does, unfortunately, mean using mirrors and having some awareness of the fact your car/driving may be faster on a straight than another, but much slower over a lap. If TDOs absolve slower cars of any responsibility then it stops working. Corrects and ultimately this is the spirit of what was said at the briefing.

Digga said: The rules are not working. If you run a day to that letter it’s at the pace of the lowest common denominator. You end up with stuff queued up behind the slowest cars and, as with your 3-wide situation, you get close calls. But if everyone followed the rules then you wouldn't get a 3-wide situation unless someone went against them? And if someone's consitently not moving over then tell the TDO to have a word with them. I think that's what PCGB is trying to get people to do but IMHO the briefing at Donington wasn't the clearest on this or the overtaking that we've discussed ad nauseam. There was some disconnect between the MSV guy's instructions and those of Chris from PCGB. The PCGB rules could work if they're followed by everyone but I fully accept I'm not the fastest driver, I don't have the fastest car and I'm not in a rush to get my skills up to racing standards so my expectations of the day are probably different to others and more in line with the Club's website blurb I posted earlier. Edited by Twinfan on Saturday 19th August 22:53

I think the OP probably had an unlucky day....everyone should be looking out for each other on the club run days - BMW Car Club runs a very well organised set of days and they have very few instances where they send people home early and they have a wider range of cars than the PCGB with full on race cars joining the normal ones. BMWCC operate like PCGB in that they are clear is it overtaking only to the left and on straights with prior notice from the car in front. Donny is a track that sadly shows the speed differential more than the likes of Oulton Park and unfortunately if you’ve so many cars attending it is often difficult to go out when the track is quieter as these instances are few. Nice car OP btw and I think you’ve made the right decision to find alternative track day organisers to go with. As others may have said, “you can’t please everyone all the time” but importantly no cars or people were damaged and some of the clubs can be a bit like being back at school (I’m no longer a member of PCGB btw).

Twinfan said: But if everyone followed the rules then you wouldn't get a 3-wide situation unless someone went against them? And if someone's consitently not moving over then tell the TDO to have a word with them. I think that's what PCGB is trying to get people to do but IMHO the briefing at Donington wasn't the clearest on this or the overtaking that we've discussed ad nauseam. There was some disconnect between the MSV guy's instructions and those of Chris from PCGB. The PCGB rules could work if they're followed by everyone but I fully accept I'm not the fastest driver, I don't have the fastest car and I'm not in a rush to get my skills up to racing standards so my expectations of the day are probably different to others and more in line with the Club's website blurb I posted earlier. I have attended numerous of those briefings. IMHO, whilst the faster cars have the greater responsibility (plus, if you are quick, you should also have the skill and capability) to manage situations as they arrive at them, there is simply insufficient emphasis on the courtesy and nuance of being the overtakee, as opposed to overtaker. You could have as big a skill and power difference as you like between two cars, but there is no ‘safe’ means of getting past a car that doesn’t think it needs to cooperate. Worse yet one that, for whatever reason, decides it is their ‘right’ to not be overtaken. That’s not what it’s about.

I totally agree with you Digga. The briefings should be clearer on that for sure.

Exactly. And this is hardly a terrifying ‘3 abreast almost into the wall’ that was reported to Chris. At this point, Twinfan, you would have see the RS in your mirrors anyway, so, let him past and all this aggro would have been avoided is how I see it. Anyway, we live and learn. Separately, looking forward to SPA with RMA in September. Hopefully see a few of you guys there

PGNSagaris said: Separately, looking forward to SPA with RMA in September. Hopefully see a few of you guys there New brake setup bedded in? Edited by TDT on Sunday 20th August 10:45

TDT said: New brake setup bedded in? Edited by TDT on Sunday 20th August 10:45 Have asked RPM to do as per your suggestion. Collecting in ten days or so after holidays and then probably going to get a sneaky day in ahead of SPA. When you out next?

PGNSagaris said: And this is hardly a terrifying ‘3 abreast almost into the wall’ that was reported to Chris. At this point, Twinfan, you would have see the RS in your mirrors anyway, so, let him past and all this aggro would have been avoided is how I see it. Anyway, we live and learn. We do indeed, but if you read my posts again you'll see that: a) I never said that b) I had seen 992RS c) He'd only just arrived behind me d) Several other drivers had spoken to Chris and Mandy and must have expressed their views way more vociferously than I did e) I have indeed chalked it up as experience but I still believe the rules of the day should be follwed by all attendees

PGNSagaris said: TDT said: New brake setup bedded in? Edited by TDT on Sunday 20th August 10:45 Have asked RPM to do as per your suggestion. Collecting in ten days or so after holidays and then probably going to get a sneaky day in ahead of SPA. Excellent. I’ve got a little break now myself. PGNSagaris said: When you out next? Next out at Castle Combe in Sept, then Goodwood and finish up at Spa in October.

Perhaps it would be better if PCGB Track Days were run like Bike Track Days, where they have groups for Novice, Intermediate, and Advanced riders. This way everyone is happy, get plenty of track time, less traffic with lesser hold ups.

I’ll just leave this here, oldie but relevant to this thread https://youtu.be/b7iUKaPlBl8?si=4iY90xVts31fEJU9

Twinfan said: PGNSagaris said: And this is hardly a terrifying ‘3 abreast almost into the wall’ that was reported to Chris. At this point, Twinfan, you would have see the RS in your mirrors anyway, so, let him past and all this aggro would have been avoided is how I see it. Anyway, we live and learn. We do indeed, but if you read my posts again you'll see that: a) I never said that b) I had seen 992RS c) He'd only just arrived behind me d) Several other drivers had spoken to Chris and Mandy and must have expressed their views way more vociferously than I did e) I have indeed chalked it up as experience but I still believe the rules of the day should be follwed by all attendees Just catching up. I’m not looking to get into it again but keep reading the same old comments.. “But if everyone followed the rules then you wouldn't get a 3-wide situation unless someone went against them?” As said before we wasn’t 3 abreast and PCGB’s note to me about your complaint may of been exaggerated by them but your initial one was pretty wrong also. I’m sure I would have got blasted by everyone on here based on your claim if I wasn’t fortunate enough to have video back up. So it’s always better not to make big claims or exaggerate as there are always consequences for someone involved. “I certainly didn't appreciate finding you squeezing between me and the pit lane entrance/pit wall (with no signal from me for you to do so) while I was taking the first opportunity to move to the left and overtake a car that had taken the final chicane pretty slowly. I nearly drove into the side of you as we ended up three abreast” Edited by 992RS on Sunday 20th August 18:56