Helping me like the 986S - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Hi, you may recall me looking for a 986S in the "Poverty" forum. I've had it a few weeks now and for whatever reasons I'm not "gelling" with it like I thought I would. Can't put my finger on it totally, I know the tyres want replacing, 5 years old but cracking around the treads, Potenza S02A (which were never popular with the TVR crowd). Think it's the height of the steering wheel that just bugs me. It seems high compared to everything else I've driven over the last 52 years. It only adjusts in and out not up and down. Is there some form of "bracket" or spacer like used to be sold for minis and Imps to lower the column? Or do I try and raise the seat - spacers under the runners? I drove the car 550 miles home after I bought it and have done a few trips out up here but when I had a 500 mile round trip a couple of weeks ago I took the old Lotus Excel rather than the Boxster.....

There is a mod to remove the lower middle dashboard area,

Will that lower the steering wheel/column a little?

The last thing you'd want to do is raise the seat. It's already too high in the 986.

Most people want the option to raise the wheel or lower the seat in a 986/996 as the wheel is too low for many. I'm only 5'8" but find the space between wheel and thigh too small even with seat on its lowest. Definitely replace the tyres and consider getting the geo checked.

New tyres (I've been using Nankangs on 17" for years now. I need something when I couldn't find "N" rated in stock at the time). Geo set-up. Read and reset any codes. You aren't revving it high enough. The excitement starts when it starts to howl.

I've sold my Boxster now but I'm about 80% sure that the steering wheel went up and down as well as fore and aft.,

A dished Momo steering wheel might solve the driving position problem if you can live without the airbag. I was underwhelmed by my 996 when I first got it and didn’t understand why everyone raves about Porsches - it was crashy over almost any road and the steering was vague. Then I committed to refreshing the suspension components - it wasn’t cheap but was good value as it completely transformed the car and my enjoyment. It might be that your car is in a similar way. The M030 kit was surprisingly low cost from the dealer and I got an independent to fit it as well as replace coffin arms and bushes. It cost ~£2-3k about 8 years ago but still feels fresh after 35k miles so cost per smile is very low. My view is spend at the beginning of ownership and enjoy a properly set up car rather than replacing key components at MOT failure/end of ownership - the components degrade a long time before they fail. You may not need to replace all at once and could perhaps do it gradually but my experience is these things are only as good as their weakest part.

Cheers, new tyres should be the first move as the cracking was picked up on the MoT before I bought it and I'm well aware old tyres are a nightmare (TVR experiences!) What's the preferences here? Currently Potenza SA2A at 225/40ZR18 & 265/35/ZR18, I remember Potenza on my first TVR 20+ year ago, they were OK but thought more recent versions weren't so good?? A lot of folk recommend the Pilot S4. I'm west coast Scotland and while it's not out that often in the rain we do get more than our fair share. Anyone tried Rainsport 5? Thanks

I’m in SW Scotland and use Michelin PS4 - haven’t found anything better for any car.

Yourmumsmum said: A dished Momo steering wheel might solve the driving position problem if you can live without the airbag. I was underwhelmed by my 996 when I first got it and didn’t understand why everyone raves about Porsches - it was crashy over almost any road and the steering was vague. Then I committed to refreshing the suspension components - it wasn’t cheap but was good value as it completely transformed the car and my enjoyment. It might be that your car is in a similar way. The M030 kit was surprisingly low cost from the dealer and I got an independent to fit it as well as replace coffin arms and bushes. It cost ~£2-3k about 8 years ago but still feels fresh after 35k miles so cost per smile is very low. My view is spend at the beginning of ownership and enjoy a properly set up car rather than replacing key components at MOT failure/end of ownership - the components degrade a long time before they fail. You may not need to replace all at once and could perhaps do it gradually but my experience is these things are only as good as their weakest part. Can I ask what milage / age the car was at when you replaced and noticed the difference?

Yourmumsmum said: I’m in SW Scotland and use Michelin PS4 - haven’t found anything better for any car. Thanks, note there's a PS5 now I think, seems to use some reclaimed stuff??

Skyedriver said: Can't put my finger on it totally, I know the tyres want replacing, 5 years old but cracking around the treads If my experience was anything to go by those tyres will be ruining the whole thing. Mine was on old P Zeros at the front. They were perished, feathered, cracked, hard, and horrible. They were so loud at speed I thought it had a knackered wheelbearing. I fitted new fronts (replacement P Zeros, everyone gets so upset about n-rated tyres on older cars but I couldn't get 4 michelins at the time and the rear Pzeros were still young so I kept it all matching), had a 4 wheel alignment done, and honestly, you wouldn't have known it was the same car when it came back. It made me laugh because based on the folder of receipts and the age of those tyres, the last two owners will have had absolutely no idea how the car was actually supposed to feel. Skyedriver said: Think it's the height of the steering wheel that just bugs me. It seems high compared to everything else I've driven over the last 52 years. It only adjusts in and out not up and down. I also found that a bit weird - the wheel is a bit bus-like - but got used to it pretty quickly. I fitted a Momo Mod07 which helps a little bit (dished, and a few mm smaller).

Skyedriver said: Yourmumsmum said: I’m in SW Scotland and use Michelin PS4 - haven’t found anything better for any car. Thanks, note there's a PS5 now I think, seems to use some reclaimed stuff?? I've got Goodyear Asymmetric 5's which are a little cheaper and also seem to get very good reviews. Think the 6 is now available too. New tyres will make all the difference.

BS62 said: Skyedriver said: Can't put my finger on it totally, I know the tyres want replacing, 5 years old but cracking around the treads If my experience was anything to go by those tyres will be ruining the whole thing. Mine was on old P Zeros at the front. They were perished, feathered, cracked, hard, and horrible. They were so loud at speed I thought it had a knackered wheelbearing. I fitted new fronts (replacement P Zeros, everyone gets so upset about n-rated tyres on older cars but I couldn't get 4 michelins at the time and the rear Pzeros were still young so I kept it all matching), had a 4 wheel alignment done, and honestly, you wouldn't have known it was the same car when it came back. It made me laugh because based on the folder of receipts and the age of those tyres, the last two owners will have had absolutely no idea how the car was actually supposed to feel. Skyedriver said: Think it's the height of the steering wheel that just bugs me. It seems high compared to everything else I've driven over the last 52 years. It only adjusts in and out not up and down. I also found that a bit weird - the wheel is a bit bus-like - but got used to it pretty quickly. I fitted a Momo Mod07 which helps a little bit (dished, and a few mm smaller). Thanks, saw the Goodyear 5 & 6 getting decent reviews. would save about £20/corner. is it worth the saving I wonder? Similar price to Rainsport 5s. Need a couple of tyres for wife's Mini & a couple for the Excel too. And some stuff to get the old Volvo through an MoT - there's a lot of spend this next couple of months. Have just looked into the Momo wheel kit from Design 911, the smaller wheel will drop the top a little, make it more comfortable, wonder what the dish does don't want it too close to the chest. Need to sit in the car and think about that. Edited by Skyedriver on Monday 10th October 15:03

If you're worried about dish bringing the wheel out you could get a prototipo which is more or less the same wheel, just flat. It's what I was originally going to buy, then I realised the Mod07 has a yellow 12 o clock marker on it, and because my car is yellow I was swayed by the tart factor. The dish isn't bad at all though, I'm quite an arms-out driver and it didn't make it feel too close at all.

BS62 said: If you're worried about dish bringing the wheel out you could get a prototipo which is more or less the same wheel, just flat. It's what I was originally going to buy, then I realised the Mod07 has a yellow 12 o clock marker on it, and because my car is yellow I was swayed by the tart factor. The dish isn't bad at all though, I'm quite an arms-out driver and it didn't make it feel too close at all. Thanks, Design 911 had a kit for sale about £375 or just a wheel £190 or the prototipo £218 . Assume I need the full kit.

Skyedriver said: BS62 said: If you're worried about dish bringing the wheel out you could get a prototipo which is more or less the same wheel, just flat. It's what I was originally going to buy, then I realised the Mod07 has a yellow 12 o clock marker on it, and because my car is yellow I was swayed by the tart factor. The dish isn't bad at all though, I'm quite an arms-out driver and it didn't make it feel too close at all. Thanks, Design 911 had a kit for sale about £375 or just a wheel £190 or the prototipo £218 . Assume I need the full kit. Yes, you'll want a kit including the correct boss. I bought a bundle from this chap: https://www.bellavolante.co.uk/ It came with the resistor you need to keep the airbag system working and prevent error lights, the connector you need to make the horn work with the boss, and I bought a horn button from him as well. Would recommend, as it's everything you need in one hit. Edit: Almost everything. You will need to sort out some wires for the horn and the resistor when you remove the clockspring. There are guides on rennlist and youtube, and the kit came with some too. (https://rennlist.com/forums/993-forum/667291-993-rs-steering-wheel-installed-wiring-photos.html This is basically what I did, and shows you a good wiring solution. The only bit to add to that is to remember you have a UK car, so turn the ignition switch to the on position (dash lights on, don't start the engine) then remove the -ve lead from the battery - if you do it with it switched off you'll trip the alarm. And put a towel or something through the bonnet catch - you do not want that being accidentally closed with the battery disconnected....) Edited by BS62 on Thursday 13th October 13:21

I enjoyed my 986 - There were many things I loved but a few things I didnt 'love', although these are easily fixed (see below). I can well imagine, how someone might not immediately 'get' it and wonder what the fuss is all about. From my experience: Tyres Suspension Componentry (everything, the whole lot). Geometry Makes a huge difference. Just as it does with every older, driver focused sports cars. Semmelweiss said: I need something when I couldn't find "N" rated in stock at the time). Firstly forget the N rated nonsense. Yes its important on your 4 year old Approved Used Carrera T. Its not important on a 20 yyear old 986. The 'current' N rated tyre for this model is a Pilot Sport 2, whereas the world has now moved on to the PS5. Premium tyres from Michelin, Goodyear, Continental etc will be fine. I went with Yokohama Advan V105 - which are incidentally used from factory on the 4cylinder 718 models. Check whats available in your sizes. Geometry setup - these have full adjustable camber/caster/toe front and rear. It needs knowledge and skill to setup. It is NOT 'tracking' . If you havent done it in the past year or so, it'll need doing. SE24 said: Can I ask what milage / age the car was at when you replaced and noticed the difference? My car was on around 130k when I eventually replaced the entire suspension: Damper (Koni Actives) Top Mounts EVERY suspension arm, 3 per corner IIRC Track Rods Drop Links Springs Engine Mount Gearbox Mounts Now, beforehand the car was 'fine'. No visible play, no clonks, no MOT fails, leaking dampers or coil spings. But the difference was remarkable. It cost me about £2-2.5k all in if i recollect, but I did it all myself. Semmelweiss said: You aren't revving it high enough. The excitement starts when it starts to howl. This. What I never did with my car was allow it to sing more often by changing the exhuast and intake. I should have. I am still tempted by another Boxster and if I do, it will definitly be getting this treatment.

Skyedriver said: BS62 said: If you're worried about dish bringing the wheel out you could get a prototipo which is more or less the same wheel, just flat. It's what I was originally going to buy, then I realised the Mod07 has a yellow 12 o clock marker on it, and because my car is yellow I was swayed by the tart factor. The dish isn't bad at all though, I'm quite an arms-out driver and it didn't make it feel too close at all. Thanks, Design 911 had a kit for sale about £375 or just a wheel £190 or the prototipo £218 . Assume I need the full kit. Measured existing wheel today, it's only very slightly larger than the Momo about 380 v 350mm diameter

Skyedriver said: Measured existing wheel today, it's only very slightly larger than the Momo about 380 v 350mm diameter In numerical terms that may not seem like a huge difference, but the Momo wheel will feel much smaller in subjective terms.

It really does. I had a similar moment when mine arrived, holding them up against each other thinking "This is practically the same size" but it's different enough to feel pretty amazing without being so small it's like trying to drive with a go-kart wheel. The size change brings the top of it down just enough to not obscure any dials for me, and just enough to make it feel a bit less like a massive wheel off a pirate ship (which is how the oem one always felt...I know, I'm a bit odd). Edited by BS62 on Monday 17th October 09:48

"and just enough to make it feel a bit less like a massive wheel off a pirate ship" Made me laugh. Trying to get prices for PS4 or PS5 at the moment. Contacted a couple of places, one local and one in Glasgow. No response from either since Thursday. Might be a Black Circles/ My Tyres job but I know the local fitters don't like working with them - no profit on the tyre, don't pay for a valve etc etc apparently.

Had a quick read through and not sure if anyone has mentioned the standard steering wheel is offset. So as you spin it the rim moves around relatively. This makes it a little higher in the straight ahead position. Obviously most momo type wheels are dead centred but you can buy an offset spacer to replicate this. I had one of ese spacers and removed it. The other main difference with the momo wheel is reach or the dish. Everyone seems to go for the dished 07 which adds around 2 inches of reach and you feel this when reaching for the indicator with your finger tips. Obviously irrelevant when you're having a hot lap. You can still adjust some of this extra reach out using the standard adjustment. Finally on wheels some people get concerned about losing the airbag if you go after market and I still get gremlins with the horn deciding not to work occasionally. You can get something much much cheaper on alibaba if you just want to try it out. The standard 986 and 996 seats do not sit you as low as a 987 / 997 seat. These are an easy swap depending on your spanner ability. The newer seats also give you a tiny bit more legroom too as they sit you slightly further back. I might try recaro buckets in my 986 just to see if they give me much more legroom. I'm not really in love with my 986 too. But I'm not expecting lotus ability like you. I just think mine needs some money throwing at it and I'm still not sure if this is worth doing as I have way too many cars right now. The standard 986 setup is quite soft. Even the standard bushes when new are soft. This seemed to be the design back then. They wanted a compliant suspension setup. I'd recommend you try a 17 inch wheel and tyre setup. I think the massive 18 setup is way way too over tyred. As an experiment I drove mine around wearing 4 x 17 inch front wheels wearing skinny 205 50 tyres all round. The car felt much more nimble and I think much better suited to the standard compliant suspension setup. I'm currently in the process of sorting a setup with 17 front and 16 rears so 205 50 17 front and then 225 50 16 rears. I'm still tempted to try 205 55 16 rears but I doubt I'll be able to tell the difference.

Thanks ATM combination of a week away and rain for weeks up here, so the 986 is parked up. Did wonder about the dish on the wheel pushing it closer to me, Or too close. I notice it's offset from the drivers centreline which is a little uncomfortable. Anyone got a Momo 07 complete set up they want to sell? To try? And it's the wheel feeling high to my arms that is uncomfortable, as if I want to lower the wheel or raise the seat. Thought: previous owner was a big bloke, could he have lowered the seat somehow? Booked in for a full PS5 set on Thursday to replace the cracked Bridgestones.

Skyedriver said: Thought: previous owner was a big bloke, could he have lowered the seat somehow? Sit in the pass seat and see if it feels different. I've read that sometimes the webbing can get damaged [or deliberately butchered] which could make the seat sag.

ATM said: Skyedriver said: Thought: previous owner was a big bloke, could he have lowered the seat somehow? Sit in the pass seat and see if it feels different. I've read that sometimes the webbing can get damaged [or deliberately butchered] which could make the seat sag. Good idea. Actually took the car out this morning (and it rained). After a driving the old Volvo Estate for over a week on holiday (I've driven old 940's for near on 20 years and they're like putting on a favourite old coat) the Boxster actually felt quite comfortable. But then after a while I started to notice the offset pedals/wheel/seat thing again. Guess I'm just going to have to get used to it but it niggles.

Update: Yes the driver seat has sagged very slightly over the 64K miles of the previous drivers but what I discovered was that the rise/fall of the seat wasn't allowing full movement. A bash & wiggle while not sitting on it got the seat fully up which is a great improvement. My arms are so much more comfortable. Even the wheel will probably be OK now. Did a couple of hundred miles yesterday, much more comfortable but started to look at the seat/wheel/pedals miss-alignment. There's space between the accelerator pedal and the wheelarch. Right foot on the right hand edge of the pedal brings everything more natural. Don't know if there's any adjustment side to side but going to have a look at this. (When it stops raining).

I dont think you can do anything with the standard pedals. The 2 on the left are one assembly and hinged from above and the throttle is another assembly and hinged from the floor. All have fixed positions. Even if you could move them you would need to move both these separate assemblies if you want to maintain the gap between brake and throttle for heel and toeing. Personally I never heel and toe but you may be a driving god. If you just want the throttle over to the right a bit you could add some form of pedal extension which is wider than the standard pedal.

ATM said: I dont think you can do anything with the standard pedals. The 2 on the left are one assembly and hinged from above and the throttle is another assembly and hinged from the floor. All have fixed positions. Even if you could move them you would need to move both these separate assemblies if you want to maintain the gap between brake and throttle for heel and toeing. Personally I never heel and toe but you may be a driving god. If you just want the throttle over to the right a bit you could add some form of pedal extension which is wider than the standard pedal. Yes, I'm a driving dog The extension was what I was thinking as I drove home at 2.30am this morning.

Anecdote: I've grumbled about the pedals being offset to the left (centre of the car). Took the Lotus Excel out today, never noticed but the pedals are actually offset a little to the right (outside of the car). Jumped in, couldn't depress the clutch - it was the brake pedal. Approaching a T junction with a car in front slowing I couldn't hit the brake pedal, I could have won a dancing competition the way my feet were moving.

Skyedriver said: What's the preferences here? Currently Potenza SA2A at 225/40ZR18 & 265/35/ZR18, I remember Potenza on my first TVR 20+ year ago, they were OK but thought more recent versions weren't so good?? A lot of folk recommend the Pilot S4. I'm west coast Scotland and while it's not out that often in the rain we do get more than our fair share. Anyone tried Rainsport 5? Thanks Am I too late? Rainsports in the past have very soft sidewalls, and this is not 'fun'. Dunno where the 5 sits with this. Which 18" wheel do you have? The Turbolooks, or the MY02s? The Turbolooks are very very very very heavy, and this will make a big difference.to your enjoyment. The MY02s are much lighter. But as someone else said, consider sourcing some 2nd hand 17" wheels - the car will dance rather than plod (if on the 18" Turbolooks) though you do have less choice in the rear size, 17 vs 18.

Rainsport 5 is an excellent tyre - on my Diesel estate car. Its quiet, soft, comfy and decent on a minging wet motorway, aswell as good value. Wouldn't put it anywhere near a sports car. Pilot sports, Conti Sport Contact or Eagle F1s are the default premium sporty tyre choices for good reason. An excellent, slightly better value alternative is the Yokohama Advan V105. These were OE fit on some. 718s, Lotus used them, and I thought they were excellent on my 986 too.

hanks for the tyre info, wheels are "turbolook" 18" I assume from 2004 the same as the car. Haven't looked for a date on them. Purchased as set of PS5 on Thursday

Apologies if my post was not clear - date of the wheel is not important - the 'MY02' is the name of one of the other styles of 18" wheel commonly fitted to the 986, and this wheel is much lighter than the Turbolook. But the MPS5 will be an excellent tyre. Edited by Orangecurry on Sunday 30th October 08:57

I'll have to save up for the swop to 17" wheels especially after shelling out for the PS5s Interesting though, I've had Lotus 7/ Caterhams for more years than I care to mention (sold my Caterham a month ago) and they always go best on 13" wheels. Folk have tried 14", 15" etc but the 13" is always the best option, less unspring weight mainly. Tyre options are limited though.

Every car it seems has a sweet-spot wheel (and tyre) size and width. As ATM said above, these cars seem to suit narrower and lighter, but this doesn't look as good, and the fronts especially look a bit too 'inboard'. Enjoy your MPS5s and over the winter months look for a set of the lighter versions of 17" as fitted OEM? OEM sizes were 7J front (for both) and 8.5J rear for the Boxster and 9J rear for the 996 - they are all physically interchangeable. Here is your bible http://www.944racing.de/wheelweights.php ...personally, although light, I think the 'Boxster S II' wheels look awful in the metal, so if I were you I'd look for '996 Carrera 2' if you want cheap, '996 10-spoke' if you want the lightest, or IMO hold out for 'Sport Classic' which look fantastic. Even though they are a pain to keep clean, they are the 2nd lightest, and if you are psychopathic like me, you can find them in 8.5J and 9J and stick the 8.5J ones on the front with 225/45..... Edited by Orangecurry on Sunday 30th October 12:22

Orangecurry said: ...personally, although light, I think the 'Boxster S II' wheels look awful in the metal, so if I were you I'd look for '996 Carrera 2' if you want cheap, '996 10-spoke' if you want the lightest, or IMO hold out for 'Sport Classic' which look fantastic. Even though they are a pain to keep clean, they are the 2nd lightest, and if you are psychopathic like me, you can find them in 8.5J and 9J and stick the 8.5J ones on the front with 225/45..... Edited by Orangecurry on Sunday 30th October 12:22 The 10 spokes look good, the Sport Classics are a no purely on the keeping clean, Carrera 2 I'm not sure on the looks. Thanks for the info.

Skyedriver said: The 10 spokes look good I'm up to 3 sets of these now so even though you live in the middle of nowhere if you ever do get down to where the rest of us live and want to try a set on your car to see how they feel then let me know.

ATM said: Skyedriver said: The 10 spokes look good I'm up to 3 sets of these now so even though you live in the middle of nowhere if you ever do get down to where the rest of us live and want to try a set on your car to see how they feel then let me know. Thanks, appreciate the offer.

Just thought I'd resurrect my old thread, it's taken a while but the love is coming, think it's just so different to most stuff I've owned/driven. (Caterham/TVR etc) Lacks the theatre and limited carrying capacity of the TVRs, it needs to rev to get movement rather like my Excel, it's taken a while to get the seat/wheel positioning right but yes I'm understanding it now. Haven't changed the steering wheel but the PS5 tyres make a difference. Thanks guys Perseverance has paid off. Happy Easter

Good news Surely we should see pics of this beast now?

Will do, needs a wash, was trying to shift the top nut on the front shock this morning to change a spring. Socket fits OK but I can't then get an allen key onto the post to hold it. Impact gun hasn't the strength to shift it. Will try for a double offset ring spanner at the local tool shop.

How about these two taken last year for Insurance purposes: