981 S - Ride - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

I test drove a 981 S yesterday and came away disappointed. It was extremely brittle, incredibly hard and tiring to drive - so tiring I noticed it on a short test drive on back roads. Potholes made the entire car shudder and rattle. I want the car for European road trips and I was left with the impression that a Cayman would be a bad choice. I far prefer my 987 Boxster. Am I looking at the wrong car? Will I get used to the ride? Are they all that noisy and do they all rattle? This car has no PSE, 20” wheels and no PASM. Was it the wrong spec? I really wanted to like it, but it felt really inappropriate for the purpose to which I wished to put it. Constructive input most welcome!

Sounds like you tested a dog in need of some suspension work. They’re brilliant for long trips. Firm, but not overly so, and certainly not crashy. I do several hours in mine on our pock-marked uk roads with none of the above. Mine is on 20s with PASM. I flit between the two PASM modes depending on my mood and the road. In its former setting, it is stiff but not crashy. PASM is excellent - but I’ve limited experience of passive dampers on 981s. I personally would want it, along with PSE, sport chrono and PTV. Edited by Royal Jelly on Sunday 16th April 08:07

I found my 987's more crashy than my 981's to be honest and both my 981's have been non pasm cars. Something not right if you think your 987 ride quality is better than 981

Doesn’t sound quite right. Owned and driven several 981s and I would say the ride is well judged. Assume it was standard and unmodified? If so, sounds like a poor example. Could be old tyres, and the X73 Sports Suspension isn’t to everyone’s taste. The best handling/riding 981 I ever drove had PASM, 19” wheels and GY F1s. However, the biggest issue may well be the terrible state of our decaying UK roads. I think they are in the worst condition I can ever recall, with no prospect of improvement - just patching up. Fortunately European roads are much better, which is the whole point of owning a Porsche and doing Euro-tours.

Non PASM passive suspension cars are set up to be slightly firmer than PASM cars in comfort mode I believe. That said I’ve always found the 981 quite disappointing when compared to earlier or later versions, particularly the first edition epas (which is often commented on.)

My 987 on 19's didn't have PASM and was fine. My 981 on 20's has PASM and is fine too. I think seat height can make a difference though - try raising it and lowering it to see if you feel more or less. Agree with others you could try another to be sure, but don't think having PASM is going to make much difference.

My Boxster is on 17s, and it’s relaxing and really fun to drive. It seems almost all 981s are on 20s. I drove a 718 boxster (also on 20s and no pasm and the ride seemed fine. I’m keeping the 987, btw. It’s the SL I want to change.

Yep, sounds like the car may have had a problem. Our 981 is on 19" without PASM and 718 is on 20" with PASM and I can drive both for several hours without issue. Contrast that with my old 987 on 18" without PASM which in the end gave a bad back after anything more that 2 hours driving.

Good intel, folks. Thanks. I’ll try another car before I rule out a 981.

I have a 981 GTS on 20s, and an Audi TTS on 20s. The GTS has PASM which I rarely use. Even with the Audi in ‘comfort’ suspension setting, it’s much harsher than the GTS. So I suspect there’s something wrong with the car you drove. Shop around.

Definitely something wrong there, the 981’s ride brilliantly especially as a car for long trips. Even my GTS with X73 suspension on 20” wheels was still not harsh, brilliant sports cars.

jimmy p said: I found my 987's more crashy than my 981's to be honest and both my 981's have been non pasm cars. Something not right if you think your 987 ride quality is better than 981 The EPAS was completely fine. It’s definitely not one of the weak points of the car.

What tyres did it have and how old were they from the date stamp as that can make a lot of difference. I got some 20” wheels which had N rated P Zeros with loads of tread but the tyres were 6+ years old and i found the ride hard, crashing and heavy steering and got the Ackerman effect a lot. A new set of N rated Michelin PS4S made a world of difference and now the ride is far far better, the heavy steering gone and rides over bumps much nicer. Ackerman effect has gone too. No PASM btw.

stabilio said: What tyres did it have and how old were they from the date stamp as that can make a lot of difference. I got some 20” wheels which had N rated P Zeros with loads of tread but the tyres were 6+ years old and i found the ride hard, crashing and heavy steering and got the Ackerman effect a lot. A new set of N rated Michelin PS4S made a world of difference and now the ride is far far better, the heavy steering gone and rides over bumps much nicer. Ackerman effect has gone too. No PASM btw. Interesting. They were, indeed, P. Zeros; quite worn but not particularly old. I’m also happy to agree that Michelins are always a good answer.

Don’t think you’ve mentioned the age or mileage of the car you drove - if it’s an early car it could be over 10 years old now so maybe due a suspension refresh. My money though would be on tyres; either old, incorrectly inflated or possibly even the wrong sidewall spec for a mid engined car. My Spyder is on the widely derided (20”) Pirelli N1s with passive suspension and rides brilliantly IMHO - N0 version not great but unlikely the car you drove would still be on those. Tyre age really does make a difference, more so than manufacturer in my experience - you can feel the squidge in a new set.

Agree. My experience of Pirelli has been excellent, although a big fan of GY Eagle F1s for low noise and compliant ride. It’s ‘age’ that deteriorates the quality of tyre performance, whatever the manufacturer.

elisered said: Don’t think you’ve mentioned the age or mileage of the car you drove - if it’s an early car it could be over 10 years old now so maybe due a suspension refresh. My money though would be on tyres; either old, incorrectly inflated or possibly even the wrong sidewall spec for a mid engined car. My Spyder is on the widely derided (20”) Pirelli N1s with passive suspension and rides brilliantly IMHO - N0 version not great but unlikely the car you drove would still be on those. Tyre age really does make a difference, more so than manufacturer in my experience - you can feel the squidge in a new set. 13 plate, 60k, coincidentally the same mileage as my 2010 Boxster.

fozzymandeus said: 13 plate, 60k, coincidentally the same mileage as my 2010 Boxster. I’d imagine at that age/mileage the suspension would benefit from some attention if that’s not already occurred.

Owned a 981CS for nearly 6 years and did 5 euro tours in it. My car had 20's and PASM and I found the ride excellent, particularly abroad. It rode better than my 996 turbo on 18's. I switched P zeros to PS4S which also helped a bit. Makes a great car for touring, try another one.

Very sensitive to tyres being over inflated.

fozzymandeus said: Am I looking at the wrong car? Will I get used to the ride? Are they all that noisy and do they all rattle? This car has no PSE, 20” wheels and no PASM. Was it the wrong spec? The quality of the ride on my no PASM 20” wheels on PZeros is excellent for a sportscar, or would be if we had half decent roads. So the PASM would not be a deal breaker for me, unlike the PSE which would be. The only slight problem with the 981S as a touring car is the rear tyre noise. It may have been just the ones I drove but I found it worse on Caymans than my Boxster, maybe the better sealed solid roof doesn’t help? PZeros certainly don’t help, IMO Goodyear Eagles F1s are better in every way including quieter. Try another car.

anonymous said: [redacted] Is this because you can’t hear the tyre noise over the wind noise from the canvas roof?

fozzymandeus said: anonymous said: [redacted] Is this because you can’t hear the tyre noise over the wind noise from the canvas roof? There is no wind noise from the canvas roof on a 981, I dare say it isn't as well insulated from external noise as a steel roof would be though. The main source of noise in any 981 cabin is the rear tyres.

elisered said: My money though would be on tyres; either old, incorrectly inflated or possibly even the wrong sidewall spec for a mid engined car. Ditto, if the PZero are 2/3 years old or more. I've had both N0 and N1 replaced by Pirelli. I preferred the N0 when they were new, although I know the consensus on here is the N1 is better. When the first set hardened the ride was awful, but the change was so gradual I didn't realise it was the tyres until I put the set of winters on and the car came alive! :-) On PS4S now although only 2 years in... still seem good though. S

TTmonkey said: I have a 981 GTS on 20s, and an Audi TTS on 19s. The GTS has PASM which I rarely use. Even with the Audi in ‘comfort’ suspension setting, it’s much harsher than the GTS. So I suspect there’s something wrong with the car you drove. Shop around. Definitely.. I have a 981 GT4 and a TTS on 20s. The TTS does not ride as well. My previous 981 S on 20s and PASM was exceptional considering the wheel size.

I have a 718 on passive, i.e. no PASM. It is firm. When I had a loaner with PASM I have to say even with 20"s it worked exceptionally well on the UK's pot-hole infected roads and was a bit softer in normal than mine; and also a bit firmer in sport. If ordering a new one now it's one of the few options I would consider adding - I think is probably a necessity for larger wheel sizes.

My 981 S with PASM was good.

fozzymandeus said: anonymous said: [redacted] Is this because you can’t hear the tyre noise over the wind noise from the canvas roof? I think Boxsters suffer slightly less road noise than the Cayman, although the space above the engine bay is very practical for extra luggage space in the Cayman it does seem to amplify the tyre roar. I see steering mentioned again - I will say after driving an Emira with proper hydraulic steering the difference is night and day compared to EPAS, even in the 718 I found it dull and lifeless in comparison. I can certainly see why people coming from a 987 say would notice the difference.

Well I've owned numerous 987's and whilst I'll agree there is more feel in them, the 981 isn't that bad in comparison. A 981 with pse on will make you forget any issues you may have with the steering imo. Been out today in it, roof down, pse on, it's fabulous

jimmy p said: A 981 with pse on will make you forget any issues you may have with the steering imo. Been out today in it, roof down, pse on, it's fabulous So many people seem to lose sight of what this is all about, there will always be faster cars, there will always be better cars but the object of the excercise for me is to enjoy what you choose to own and drive. Some on here seem to think it is their right/duty to tell others what they should or shouldn't enjoy owning and driving - it isn't

981Boxess said: jimmy p said: A 981 with pse on will make you forget any issues you may have with the steering imo. Been out today in it, roof down, pse on, it's fabulous So many people seem to lose sight of what this is all about, there will always be faster cars, there will always be better cars but the object of the excercise for me is to enjoy what you choose to own and drive. Some on here seem to think it is their right/duty to tell others what they should or shouldn't enjoy owning and driving - it isn't Agreed. I was amazed at how competent and fast a 718S is, the engine is super sharp and responsive. The exhaust noise is pretty good when compared to other turbo cars too. Yet so many say it’s terrible because of the engine sound. It’s just a different car! Alright it’s nit just as good a sound track than a 981 with PSE, but it’s definitely a better drive in real world (ie, U.K. roads). I also suspect that a 718 2.5 GTS is probably more responsive than a 718 4.0 GTS and a better drive.

Billy_Whizzzz said: Very sensitive to tyres being over inflated. Just reiterating this after my experiment today: inflated aftwr winter to 2.1 / 2.2 bar front / rear when cold. This translated into 2.4 / 2.5 when warm which was WAY to hard. Reduced to 2.2 / 2.3 warm and it is perfect. It’s a Spyder in X73 but should be same as S…

Billy_Whizzzz said: Just reiterating this after my experiment today: inflated aftwr winter to 2.1 / 2.2 bar front / rear when cold. This translated into 2.4 / 2.5 when warm which was WAY to hard. Reduced to 2.2 / 2.3 warm and it is perfect. It’s a Spyder in X73 but should be same as S… What brand tyres? My new Goodyear Eagle F1s feel fine when warm at 2.4 However the previous tyres which were old, 8 years old, did feel harder.

I had a 981GTS PASM 20" wheels on Goodyears and I was impressed with how it rode to be honest, PASM would make it too crashy on the road, probably perfect on track. Must be something amiss with the car you've driven.

anonymous said: [redacted] Normal in engineering, or are you upset he didn’t specify whether it was absolute or gauge? I’m wondering now whether what I really want is a 991 Edited by fozzymandeus on Tuesday 18th April 16:31

I have a 981 GTS on Pilot Sport 4s's. Its got PASM, dynamic engine mounts etc. It's fab, very compliant and not crashy at all. I went to a Spa trackday last year and it was pretty grippy and predictable. Not sure what anyone would expect as an improvement given the cars price point and spec. There is a reason they consistently get excellent reviews.

anonymous said: [redacted] Default setting on PCM and in my daily BMW. And every Google search for tyre pressures seems to default to bar… and bar rather than psi on label in door!!

anonymous said: [redacted] You realise it was a joke, yes? Crikey.

anonymous said: [redacted] The car has the pressures printed inside the door. The sticker is in bar, not lbs. The TPM monitor is set to display bar pressure readout. When I go to the air machine, default reading is in bar, you have to use the button to change it to lbs. So there seems little point in fighting it.

I measure lumps of wood in m/cm/mm, and tyre pressures in PSI, always have and probably always will - might be age related? But then I have EPAS, if I had hydraulic I would use Bar because Bar would give better feedback

anonymous said: [redacted] So the default readout at all air vending stations is in lbs? That’s interesting. It’s changed here in England, you usually have to press and hold the button to change to lbs now. It’s a pain in the ass. That’s on electric air pressure ones obvs.

TTmonkey said: The car has the pressures printed inside the door. The sticker is in bar, not lbs. The TPM monitor is set to display bar pressure readout......... So there seems little point in fighting it. My car sticker has both PSI and Bar figures on it and the TPM lets you choose whichever you prefer. And yes there seems little point in fighting it

Psi all the way - who the hell uses bar? Still not a fan of the 981 steering tho…

Just a reminder that this is about 981 CS ride. Everything else is barred.

anonymous said: [redacted] Every one in Northern Ireland I’ve used has a button to swap over to bar.

anonymous said: [redacted] Fascinating stuff.

anonymous said: [redacted] Max pressure 140psi - bit of a clue there

anonymous said: [redacted] Next thing to try is a 991

Having driven many generations of Porsche, one thing that they all need is a decent set of aftermarket suspension to suit the crappy U.K. roads. Stock they only seem to get nice above 50mph. Decent coils will smooth the low speed ride and lock it down further the faster you go.

jayxx83 said: Having driven many generations of Porsche, one thing that they all need is a decent set of aftermarket suspension to suit the crappy U.K. roads. Stock they only seem to get nice above 50mph. Decent coils will smooth the low speed ride and lock it down further the faster you go. You can play about with the suspension to dumb down its sportscar settings for ideal smooth roads to compensate for our moon surface roads but once you start off with 20" wheels and 35 profile tyres you are on a hiding to nothing IMO. Between the higher tyre pressures and harder sidewalls the suspension doesn't stand a chance. To put that theory to the test I bought a set of 18" OE winter tyre wheels, put the same width 45 profile summer Goodyear F1s on them, with the correct corresponding lower tyre pressures and the improvement is considerable to both comfort and tyre noise, the F1s are quieter than Pzeros anyway. The 20" look better and perform better than 18" on smooth roads but there isn't as much difference in performance as you might think on average road surfaces. With the state of the roads as they are today for me the 18" are currently the better option overall.

Yeah the smaller rims ride more nicely but higher profile is a lot squishier on the corners. Just wish they would sort the roads as it’s definitely the worst I have ever seen. Not just on the side of the road now, full on craters in some places scattered throughout a lane!

jayxx83 said: Yeah the smaller rims ride more nicely but higher profile is a lot squishier on the corners. Just wish they would sort the roads as it’s definitely the worst I have ever seen. Not just on the side of the road now, full on craters in some places scattered throughout a lane! My Boxster is on 17s(!) and ride/handling compromise is very well judged. I tried a 991 Carrera 3.4 today; no PASM and 20” wheels with PZeros. Ride was much better than the Cayman. Overall driving experience met my needs far better too, so I’m going to try to secure one of those. Budget is limited so it’ll have to be an entry level one, but it’s definitely the car for me.

fozzymandeus said: My Boxster is on 17s(!) and ride/handling compromise is very well judged. I tried a 991 Carrera 3.4 today; no PASM and 20” wheels with PZeros. Ride was much better than the Cayman. Overall driving experience met my needs far better too, so I’m going to try to secure one of those. Budget is limited so it’ll have to be an entry level one, but it’s definitely the car for me. Where in the world are you? Welcome to try my 981 on tiny 18 inch wheels with skinny tyres and standard passive dampers.

You need 18" wheels... lower peak grip but wider grip window. My 981C can leave my 981Cs and 911/991s friends on 20s miles behind on average roads in Peaks and elsewhere... they particularly have to slow for pot-holes, broken surfaces and cattle-grids. Their 20s might have a slight advantage on circuits, if they have the skill to exploit the narrower but peakier grip window... but I've found at 'Combe that Quarry can send their cars on a skittish slide that Porsche stability finds hard to correct. 18s are more resilient on road surface defects. BTW... lumpy steering on full lock is due to *modified* Ackerman, designed to give higher grip levels during high speed, high load cornering. Pure Ackerman would not have lumpy steering on full lock.