Rumours of 992.2 base Carrera with 4.0 engine from CaymanGTS - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

This has possibly been discussed/rejected historically, but if any truth to it I’d dump the order for Boxster GTS that’s looking like an £85K plus motor and order a cabriolet 911. Interesting that the current hp of base 911 is 385 and the 4.0 engine is 400 plus, so nice step up for new model.

Not surprising if it turns out to be true.

I've heard from a good source this is indeed going to happen in the 992.2T .

this is a great proposition if it happens. what's the rough weight difference between Cayman 4.0 GTS/GT4 and 992 Carrera?

Very interested if turns out true and deposit will be switched and have made my contact aware of my interest, but don’t hold out much hope tbh

The buzz word is “sweet spot”, it certainly would be…. Ironic that a NA Carrera was a given not too long ago and not the forbidden fruit of the current agenda.

rossfitz said: This has possibly been discussed/rejected historically, but if any truth to it I’d dump the order for Boxster GTS that’s looking like an £85K plus motor and order a cabriolet 911. Interesting that the current hp of base 911 is 385 and the 4.0 engine is 400 plus, so nice step up for new model. Why would one make the switch unless one wanted the extra back seats or being able to say one had a 911 (for additional cost vs the 718)?

I’m not sure why the 4L engine, with its PPFs is a step on over the much torquier 3L twin turbo. I think it’s a movement of online opinion, that’s not really born out in reality. The chassis and grip on the new cars are far too good for a naturally aspirated engine. You need the torque to challenge it and push the limits. Either go wild and look to the GT3 or RS, or go to the back catalogue if a naturally aspirated engine is the number 1 priority.

I do love these rumours, the problem is the online chatter rarely leads to actual sales…

Can’t imagine them doing anything that will increase their net CO2 emissions across a range

I think 992.2 4.0 NA is a great idea in general. We know that Safari/Dakar derivative is coming… would it make sense in that disguise? It doesn’t have a former model it has to beat by #%.

Taffy66 said: I've heard from a good source this is indeed going to happen in the 992.2T . that 992.2T is so far off. The T usually appears mid stage of the gen cycle. I'd be amazed if it shows up before 2026.

Walliser said unambiguously a year or so ago that it wouldn't happen. Of course, still could, but would be quite the U-turn, more so than the return of the manual GT3. Anyway, don't think the power / performance thing matters much. They can just call it the 'T' and it won't matter if it's a fair bit lower in the real world than the base Carrera. It'll be its own thing. Also, no doubt extracting 450hp from the 718 4.0 wouldn't be that hard. They were getting 430hp out of the old Powerkit 3.8 10 years ago, albeit without the GPF.

bigleefish said: Can’t imagine them doing anything that will increase their net CO2 emissions across a range Like replacing a 2.5l F4 with a 4.0 F6?

esotericar said: Also, no doubt extracting 450hp from the 718 4.0 wouldn't be that hard. They were getting 430hp out of the old Powerkit 3.8 10 years ago, albeit without the GPF. It'll come down to cost. The GT3/GT4RS engine can do 500bhp with GPFs but can another 30bhp be gotten cheaply enough out of the 4.0 for a non-GT car is the issue. It's probably not quite as easy as it seems, although the 911 exhaust routing will certainly help.

9A2EVO 4.0 will give easy 440hp with just a remap… Would not really take much more to get another 10hp with slight revision in exhaust or just raise the rev limit by 200-300rpm, although that’s heading toward the limit of hydraulic lifters… Suffice to say… if Porsche wanted to they could… they did the 997 GT3 4.0 more than 10 years ago… 493BHP(500ps) @ 8250rpm. I’d say a decision to put NA back into a ‘normal’ 911 is not about outright t all…. its about how that pace is delivered and putting character back into the car. Edited by TDT on Sunday 2nd October 13:09

I'll bow to your superior knowledge, T

anonymous said: [redacted]

As I posted on another thread, IMO everything that increases sales to meet those quarterly targets will be done including lots of “special” cars to create more Taycan etc sales Look at how many more specials Ferrari launched since the IPO

john41901 said: rawenghey said: Must admit I didn't quite believe you there, but according to fastestlaps.com they are indeed both listed at 11.9s @ 118mph for the 1/4 mile. Amazingly, the 718 CS with 350ps is also listed as 11.9s @ 117mph. As glorious as NA units can be, it is remarkable the effectiveness of turbo power. Edited by rawenghey on Monday 3rd October 15:13 Unfortunately the dinosaurs on here don't seem to mind mind being much slower as long as it "sounds good". Yes, it's called (hopefully) keeping your license and having to work to extract the power

Andyoz said: john41901 said: rawenghey said: Must admit I didn't quite believe you there, but according to fastestlaps.com they are indeed both listed at 11.9s @ 118mph for the 1/4 mile. Amazingly, the 718 CS with 350ps is also listed as 11.9s @ 117mph. As glorious as NA units can be, it is remarkable the effectiveness of turbo power. Edited by rawenghey on Monday 3rd October 15:13 Unfortunately the dinosaurs on here don't seem to mind mind being much slower as long as it "sounds good". Yes, it's called (hopefully) keeping your license and having to work to extract the power I hear you, but I think at the price point 911s have gone to, the expectation is near supercar performance. If you want to work hard, have more focus etc then there is plenty from the back catalogue (Porsche or other marks). A turbo engine was also fine for the 991.2 T and with plenty of aftermarket potential. If it must be new and a Porsche, then a base Cayman with a manual box probably fits the fun at lower speeds brief best of all. It’s not all about the power train. Often when driving quick the senses are too overwhelmed to be listening to the engine.

john41901 said: Unfortunately the dinosaurs on here don't seem to mind mind being much slower as long as it "sounds good". The noise is merely one aspect. Response and power delivery are other factors that the playstation kidz don't comprehend. Which is why the GT3 exists when the Turbo produces way more thrust. Have a read around and maybe get a bit more experience. The penny drops for most reasonably intelligent people eventually.

esotericar said: Have a read around and maybe get a bit more experience. The penny drops for most reasonably intelligent people eventually. your post reminds me of classic cmoose, he was certainly a prolific poster on here back in the day…

rawenghey said: Must admit I didn't quite believe you there, but according to fastestlaps.com they are indeed both listed at 11.9s @ 118mph for the 1/4 mile. Amazingly, the 718 CS with 350ps is also listed as 11.9s @ 117mph. As glorious as NA units can be, it is remarkable the effectiveness of turbo power. Edited by rawenghey on Monday 3rd October 15:13 Unfortunately the dinosaurs on here don't seem to mind being much slower as long as it "sounds good". Edited by john41901 on Monday 3rd October 20:24

anonymous said: [redacted] But it's not a leap for someone to say people are dinosaurs for liking NA engines? Care to explain the difference in sentiment? I don't actually think that - what I posted - I was just responding in kind to highlight the silliness of the original comment. The direct equivalent to calling people dinosaurs is to dismiss them as playstation kidz. But never mind, obvs a bit too subtle for you!

That would be the ideal car - for an old dinosaur like me. Manual, NA, but with all the other tech. Surely fast enough for the road - I don't do track - and with the NA engine, it will need some encouragement and engagement (which is why I like to drive cars). If they build this I'll do stupid things to buy one. (Given the usual stuff about GT3s being unobtanium and a little too hardcore and so on)

Why not just buy the Cayman GTS???

Twinfan said: Why not just buy the Cayman GTS??? Old blokes prefer rear seats to having the engine tingling on your spine and with a perfectly balanced chassis.

flatsix.ant said: Old blokes prefer rear seats to having the engine tingling on your spine and with a perfectly balanced chassis.

The above - and despite the Cayman being a great car, I personally like a 911.

To be fair, the 718 GTS is a very old car now, it's ultimately a 981.2. Interior of the 992 is a pretty big step. Not necessarily preferable, but if you want something that feels more upmarket and modern inside, well... Would be interesting to compare a 992T 4.0 to a 718 GTS for engagement. There's certainly scope for Porsche making the 992 more engaging than the 718 GTS if that's what they wanted to achieve. Just depends how much focus and precision they put into the 992T if indeed they make it. They could of course do that to the 718 easily enough, but the GTS is what it is and not likely to receive a major overhaul, though there might be one or two further 718 specials that might fit the bill.

esotericar said: To be fair, the 718 GTS is a very old car now, it's ultimately a 981.2. Interior of the 992 is a pretty big step. Not necessarily preferable, but if you want something that feels more upmarket and modern inside, well... Would be interesting to compare a 992T 4.0 to a 718 GTS for engagement. There's certainly scope for Porsche making the 992 more engaging than the 718 GTS if that's what they wanted to achieve. Just depends how much focus and precision they put into the 992T if indeed they make it. They could of course do that to the 718 easily enough, but the GTS is what it is and not likely to receive a major overhaul, though there might be one or two further 718 specials that might fit the bill. I wouldn't say the 992 interior was more upmarket, but more modern yes. If you want something more engaging, then there are plenty of options you can select on the 718 GTS or there' always the 718 GT4. I just don't think the 992 T as a 4.0 would bring anything to the party other than the 911 badge and barely useable rear seats...

esotericar said: To be fair, the 718 GTS is a very old car now, it's ultimately a 981.2. . Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the 718 and 992 both built on Porsche's MMB platform? In any case, I think that assertion is a bit disingenuous when levied at a manufacturer known for being stalwarts of evolution over revolution and for refining everything to the nth degree. Also, given the 718 is considered to be a better car in every way, except the soundtrack, than the insanely well-regarded 981, I think "old" seems like a fairly baseless/throwaway comment here. Just preferring 911s is fine Personally, I'm on the fence as to whether the 4.0 F6 would bring much to the 992. Not sure whether it's an optical illusion, but the 992 looks like a real unit and like it needs a punchy turbo engine. I think they'd need to turn up that 4.0 a fair bit to get the desired performance.

rawenghey said: Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the 718 and 992 both built on Porsche's MMB platform? That what it says in the PR presentations. But the 718 / 982 is a facelifted 981 and the sister car to the 991.2, not a new car. It's unclear if the 992 is on a fully new platform, like the 991/981 was and the 996/986 was, or whether it's a heavy update to the 991/981 platform as the 997/987 was not all new and was a heavy update of 996/986. But either way, the relationship of the 718 and 992 is not the same as that between the 996 and 986, 997 and 987 and 991 and 981. The 718 is a fairly mild facelift of a car that was launched in 2012. The 992 is broadly much newer / more modern than that.

This is from Excellence Mag, publicly available. https://www.excellence-mag.com/issues/268/articles... The part on the body comes after the engine and transmission

996Targa said: This is from Excellence Mag, publicly available. https://www.excellence-mag.com/issues/268/articles... The part on the body comes after the engine and transmission Yeah, and it doesn't really make any sense. On the one hand we're told the 992 has moved to the VW group MMB platform - in other words the 991 didn't use MMB. On the other Porsche says the 718 is on MMB, but the 718 (982) is a facelift of the 981 that was done at the same time as the 991.2 facelift. The 718 (982) is on the same platform as 981, 991.1 and 991.2. So, they must also be on MMB. Except the 992 moved to MMB. In the end, a lot of the info about platforms that is released is marketing driven. I imagine if you got underneath a 992 with the cladding removed and compared it with a 991, you'd then have a better idea of what is actually going on. You have to take the corporate narrative with a pinch of salt. Especially when it flatly contradicts itself.

Twinfan said: I just don't think the 992 T as a 4.0 would bring anything to the party other than the 911 badge and barely useable rear seats... The rear seats are very useable for young kids. It is a key part of the 911’s success for decades. An NA 4.0 will still be a quick car; I find it hilarious that people think a car that will still be sub-5 secs is too slow. If Porsche make this car there will be plenty of demand for people who want the 8000rpm noise and throttle response in exchange for 0.5 secs of theoretical 0-60 time.

braddo said: Twinfan said: I just don't think the 992 T as a 4.0 would bring anything to the party other than the 911 badge and barely useable rear seats... The rear seats are very useable for young kids. It is a key part of the 911’s success for decades. An NA 4.0 will still be a quick car; I find it hilarious that people think a car that will still be sub-5 secs is too slow. If Porsche make this car there will be plenty of demand for people who want the 8000rpm noise and throttle response in exchange for 0.5 secs of theoretical 0-60 time. The NA 991.1 cars are pretty quick. Not sure what power their S and GTS models put out, but it must be in the 400bhp ballpark.

Twinfan said: I just don't think the 992 T as a 4.0 would bring anything to the party other than the 911 badge and barely useable rear seats... Oh I don't know, a 4ltr NA brand new, personally specified 911 with a manual box and Buckets that doesn't require me to build a f king relationship with my Porsche dealer sounds pretty good to me.

Twinfan said: I wouldn't say the 992 interior was more upmarket, but more modern yes. If you want something more engaging, then there are plenty of options you can select on the 718 GTS or there' always the 718 GT4. I just don't think the 992 T as a 4.0 would bring anything to the party other than the 911 badge and barely useable rear seats... 718 GT4 with the wing and stuff is a fairly different proposition. Not something I'd particularly want to drive around in re the styling, myself. Sadly no GT4 Touring! GTS looks with GT4 hardware would be nice. It really all depends on how they set the car up if they do it. They could easily make it more much engaging than the 718 GTS if they want, though I grant that seems unlikely. But not impossible. Bringing the NA lump back would be something of a purist move and there's at least a chance they make the car fairly focussed if they do it. 718 GTS is ultimately pretty soft and filtered.

john41901 said: Unfortunately the dinosaurs on here don't seem to mind being much slower as long as it "sounds good". Edited by john41901 on Monday 3rd October 20:24 Is there any need to use derogatory terms? People are entitled to prefer normally aspirated over forced induction and vice versa. This particular dinosaur has both varieties and I'm sure that many others do too.

First Sea Lord said: braddo said: Twinfan said: I just don't think the 992 T as a 4.0 would bring anything to the party other than the 911 badge and barely useable rear seats... The rear seats are very useable for young kids. It is a key part of the 911’s success for decades. An NA 4.0 will still be a quick car; I find it hilarious that people think a car that will still be sub-5 secs is too slow. If Porsche make this car there will be plenty of demand for people who want the 8000rpm noise and throttle response in exchange for 0.5 secs of theoretical 0-60 time. The NA 991.1 cars are pretty quick. Not sure what power their S and GTS models put out, but it must be in the 400bhp ballpark. I've been mooching about at 911s a fair bit recently - the .1s are 350 / 400 / 430 respectively. So all fast cars in isolation. I just think it can be hard not to fall into the trap of "base model from X generation is as quick as a special model from Y generation."

Vincent-Vega said: Oh I don't know, a 4ltr NA brand new, personally specified 911 with a manual box and Buckets that doesn't require me to build a f king relationship with my Porsche dealer sounds pretty good to me. Which you can get by buying the GTS Cayman. So the fact it would be a 911 is what you're after. You should try the Cayman, they're great cars.

A basic 991.1 is remarkably light, too, 1,380kg DIN. The 3.4 does need revs, but if you like that kind of thing, the powertrain is pretty lovely. Rated at 287lb/ft, too, which is pretty impressive for a 3.4 lump. And revs to 7,800rpm. Pity they didn't do a 981 with the 3.4 at that level of tune! Even the 981 GTS is a bit down on both power and torque. Basic car is arguably a bit light on feel, though.

rawenghey said: First Sea Lord said: braddo said: Twinfan said: I just don't think the 992 T as a 4.0 would bring anything to the party other than the 911 badge and barely useable rear seats... The rear seats are very useable for young kids. It is a key part of the 911’s success for decades. An NA 4.0 will still be a quick car; I find it hilarious that people think a car that will still be sub-5 secs is too slow. If Porsche make this car there will be plenty of demand for people who want the 8000rpm noise and throttle response in exchange for 0.5 secs of theoretical 0-60 time. The NA 991.1 cars are pretty quick. Not sure what power their S and GTS models put out, but it must be in the 400bhp ballpark. I've been mooching about at 911s a fair bit recently - the .1s are 350 / 400 / 430 respectively. So all fast cars in isolation. I just think it can be hard not to fall into the trap of "base model from X generation is as quick as a special model from Y generation." I did a half day in a 992 Carrera S at PEC. The launch control is mental but when moving it's not that much faster than a 718 GT4/GTS (about 1 to 1.5 seconds quicker from 100 to 200 kph). Obviously the torque is different league but the 4.0 engine probably wouldn't need a huge power bump to get comparable "real world" performance (as long as you are in the right gear, otherwise ..)

Twinfan said: Vincent-Vega said: Oh I don't know, a 4ltr NA brand new, personally specified 911 with a manual box and Buckets that doesn't require me to build a f king relationship with my Porsche dealer sounds pretty good to me. Which you can get by buying the GTS Cayman. So the fact it would be a 911 is what you're after. You should try the Cayman, they're great cars. Oh I know, I've got a Cayman R, fancy a 911 as well though.

Twinfan said: Vincent-Vega said: Oh I don't know, a 4ltr NA brand new, personally specified 911 with a manual box and Buckets that doesn't require me to build a f king relationship with my Porsche dealer sounds pretty good to me. Which you can get by buying the GTS Cayman. So the fact it would be a 911 is what you're after. You should try the Cayman, they're great cars. Agree a Cayman in any shape or form are great cars.

tracydeedance said: Agree a Cayman in any shape or form are great cars. Cayman is an awesome town-car, however, for travel I need more elbow room and reclining seats for the Mrs. 911 is perfect for my travel arrangements!

Pivo said: tracydeedance said: Agree a Cayman in any shape or form are great cars. Cayman is an awesome town-car, however, for travel I need more elbow room and reclining seats for the Mrs. 911 is perfect for my travel arrangements! Personally I think they're terrible town cars, or at least the 981 is. The steering is heavy which makes the car feel heavy too. Reversing out of a driveway, especially on a cold winter morning when the tyres skip at full lock it feels like you're trying to reverse a double decker out. Get them on a clear and winding A/B road, though, and the penny drops. Then they are outstanding.

resurrecting the thread. https://youtu.be/dyAvmfg91TA?si=5faIGtZ5BjxZxBp4 apparently the 992.2 GTS will be NA+Hybrid - I remember suggesting this somewhere as a bit of a leap. I am not sure if this will pass. According to this video, they'll all have new NA engines + some hybrid and Turbos will have a totally new engine. Interesting musings nonetheless.

Thought this was worldly known that 992.2 GTS was going this way. Now you know why they bashed out so many 992.1 GTS with Turbo Engines…