30% the cost 80% the performance - Page 1 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

My 3.6 manual gen two 997 had been in our local OPC for a minor leak ( in cooling system ) covered by warrenty . I picked it up and all's well now with only a small charge for the anti-freeze top up. Well done OPC. It was a warm dry day ( for Scotland any way) and having just offloaded the grand kids after a few days of fun(?)I decided to have a wee blast. 50 miles of quiet B roads all to myself (after all,kids n' mums were back at school) whats not to like. PASM & Sport selected , 2nd 3rd and 4 gear extended up to 7k , a few rises in the road allowing the rears to spin and tyres screech as traction regained ...what fun. The abs was chattering when hard braking into the tightest corners... a superb way to wind down after a "family week" . It's hard to comprehend but this lot can be had comparitavely cheaply compared to any GTR RS . These cars are real value and in my opinion are today's bargain. Forget the monitory "gains" in value of the GT3's, if you want cheap , quality , performance look no further than the bottom end of the 997 range.!!! My car "can" achieve 35 mpg ,but on that particular day managed 17mpg , it normally gets around 25 mpg ( city/country mix) so very economic if that interest you. As a drivers car it's not in the same league as my previous ( very) early 996 or any gt3 RS for that matter but in my opinion it's fantastic performance value for money. My partner still hankers after an AM ( no doubt the better looking car ) but having been with Porsche since the millimium I doubt I will change. Our local( Edin ) OPC has been very supportive and these things do matter when running cars of this caliber. Who says cars ( or houses for that matter ) have to make a profit ..The thread title states my genuine feelings re value of these cars ,and we all have to pay for what we like!!! Best regards.....

It's a true drivers car for sure and you get to use all the power and the revs more of the time. As you say great value ATM vs other stuff out there. Do you think you could have gone any faster in another car ? Or mores the point had any more fun ? 997.2 base cars are bargains. Right car for that type of road imo.

i have always felt the 997.2 3.6 manual in poverty spec.(ie 18" wheels passive suspension)an underated car.imho its how a 911 should be!

Couple of months ago had a I fast whiz with mates ,one with 430 scud the other a 3.8 gt3 RS ( both good ,reliable and safe wheelmen) .....admittedly it was on Scottish B roads but we were all "together" during the initial ( exciting) 30 mile blast. We then ventured onto sweeping A roads and the big guns did leave me behind a bit . The throttles could be held down longer and higher? ( ..... ) speeds reached. The 997 was never outgunned during the B road stuff and comparing the monetary values per performance the 997 was the definate bargain of the day. No doubt money talks when ultimate performance is the desire...what I am trying to say is fast thrills need not be at huge, huge cost.....hope you agree......

Can't argue with that op. I'm looking at 996 C4S's and 997 C2s and they are all you need on road. Of course there's also the further argument (if you don't need the rear seats) that a £10k 987 Boxster S is all you need for on road thrills with a flat6 soundtrack. I'm a 911 guy but I am finding myself in the 987 classifieds quite a bit lately. The deciding factor will obviously be budget. I have an idea of how much I'd like to spend from the proceeds of my GT3 sale but my house/wife may have another. All great cars though and apart from not having the top end scream of a Mezger, they would be enough for most people.

Murky 911 you are in a very tricky situation...twice previously we have reverted to lesser performance cars and it was dire.....the metzger is something else , where does one go from there !!!! . Last year we tried a PDK cayman S for a day ( courtesy of our OPC) we loved it and thought the 997 felt archaic afterwards...however long term we have stuck with the 997 ( the rear seats needed with g/ kids) and think it was the right descision . Newer cars are even more digital than the car we have now and I don't want to venture down that route...the manual 3.6 997 is swift ( but doesn't have the ballistic feeling of faster Porsches ) so you may find it lacking compared to gt3. You need to try all the options available to you and then decide which you can (?) live with....good luck...

It has always been so.... Coupe RWD Manual Basic Carrera Poverty spec Motoring nirvana....

In reply to mrdemon, Yes I think any Elise or decent sized Caterham would be every bit as much fun on my east lothian ring. Although my personal choice is the 997 , as a sports car the 3.6 does lack a bit of low down grunt. I don't mind reving the thing as the engine is very responsive in the 4-7 k range. Sometimes though , when pulling away from a slow corner or junction in second gear you can have your foot to the floor "waiting" for it to accelerate. I know first gear could be faster but I feel it seriously loads the drive train. My handbook actually "suggests" you drive off in second ,not that I normally do so. As for going faster , well any car with more BHP would potentially be faster in Mph terms but would then need to stop harder. It's all choices. On my " ring" ,it's the roads that make the fun...I think just about any normal sports car/ saloon in the 300-400 bhp range would give the enthusiastic driver a fantastic day.

Polome said: ...well any car with more BHP would potentially be faster in Mph terms but would then need to stop harder. It's all choices. +1 IMHO the 997 3.6 provides a nice balance in that it has decent performance on the road but you've got to work it to access (all of) it. The more you work it, the more it gives back. Perhaps slightly over tyred at the rear, oh and I'd go for 18s not 19s (on standard dampers at least). Otherwise, spot on!

Polome said: In reply to mrdemon, Yes I think any Elise or decent sized Caterham would be every bit as much fun on my east lothian ring. Although my personal choice is the 997 , as a sports car the 3.6 does lack a bit of low down grunt. I don't mind reving the thing as the engine is very responsive in the 4-7 k range. Sometimes though , when pulling away from a slow corner or junction in second gear you can have your foot to the floor "waiting" for it to accelerate. I know first gear could be faster but I feel it seriously loads the drive train. My handbook actually "suggests" you drive off in second ,not that I normally do so. As for going faster , well any car with more BHP would potentially be faster in Mph terms but would then need to stop harder. It's all choices. On my " ring" ,it's the roads that make the fun...I think just about any normal sports car/ saloon in the 300-400 bhp range would give the enthusiastic driver a fantastic day. GT3 is worse for your low down 2nd gear grunt due to long gearing.

Polome said: I think just about any normal sports car/ saloon in the 300-400 bhp range would give the enthusiastic driver a fantastic day. I don't think you need that much.... My Clio 182Cup cost less than the option for PCM3Nav in my 991GT3. So thats less than 3% of the cost. It may have a lot less than 80% of the performance on paper but that's got nothing to do with real world usage. Useable performance is the key to a fantastic drive IMHO.

I absolutely agree with the original post. mrdemon said: GT3 is worse for your low down 2nd gear grunt due to long gearing. 997.2 does about 70mph in 2nd gear in both manual and PDK according to the charts here. PDK has a shorter 3rd but the other gears are virtually identical to the manual. http://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/588117-997-2-... What does the 996 GT3 do in 2nd at the redline? 997.1 GT3 does about 70mph in 2nd, so slightly shorter gearing than the 997.2 Carrera given the former's higher redline.

Thanks for the above link ,the gear ratio graph clearly show what I'm feeling when driving. The gap between 1st and 3rd is much larger than 3rd to 6th. This " gap " gives 2nd too much work to do. Don't understand why Porsche don't have close ratios from 1st to 5th , which would give better acceleration and leave a long ratio on 6 th to allow quiet ( economic ) cruising. Is it anything to do with emissions/economy claims I wonder...

braddo said: 997.2 does about 70mph in 2nd gear in both manual and PDK according to the charts here. PDK has a shorter 3rd but the other gears are virtually identical to the manual. http://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/588117-997-2-... What does the 996 GT3 do in 2nd at the redline? 997.1 GT3 does about 70mph in 2nd, so slightly shorter gearing than the 997.2 Carrera given the former's higher redline. those are not correct figures.