Cayman S underpowered??

Hi All. I'm from Oklahoma and just saw and sat in a new Cayman S at my local dealership. VERY nice. I love it. But one thing I don't understand is why All Porsches seem under powered compaired to MUCH cheaper alternatives. To me the 911 should have at LEAST 400bhp, they Cayman S- 340bhp, and the Boxter s- 295. There really just isn't enough difference in output between the powerplants to justify the cost difference. Also, anyone in one of the HEMI Chryslers or one of the new Shelby Mustangs, or even a stock C6 corvette could easily take any Porsche (except for the exotics of course). I don't want any of the other mentioned cars- they are like driving overpowered pieces of plastic and I would not compare them in any other way. It just seems like it couldn't be THAT difficult for Porsche to bump the HP on the entire line for not a lot of money. At the very least, offer a factory or dealership installed supercharger that will not void the warantee! Even Toyota and Ford do that!! That is really my only complaint with Porsche. In an age when all the sportscar styles are going to angular, robotic looking designs (350Z, Cadillac, etc.) it is nice to see such a beautiful new design with flowing, rounded shapes that is stunning! Comments??

German auto manufacturers do not give away horsepower and there is a reason why. Their vehicles have a balance of qualities and appeal that allows them to charge more. Reviews of the Cayman S agree that the wonderful chassis could easily handle 100 more horsepower, but they go on to say that the Cayman S does not feel underpowered, although it could use some more torque in the low end. Tuners are working to rectify horsepower opening left by Porsche AG. Look for 381 horsepower Caymans in 2006 from Ruf, Techart, Sportec and others. Then expect to see Porsche come to the party three years from now, the Porsche AG marketing department unable toresist makingeven more money per car on these very profitable,high horse power models. Edited by - mpollard on 12/19/2005 06:12:35 AM

The GT is not underpowered, or underpriced! Aloha Russ

The other thing is, most of these high HP cars don't put all that power on the road. In a Top Gear episode where they pitted an Aston V8, M6, and Porsche 911 against each other. The 911 had a 100HP deficit, yet it smoked both those cars. Anyone can put a big engine in a car, but it's the overall engineering that makes porsches great. My other comment would be that German horses are bigger than Japanese horses.

At first I thought this would be a Cayman bashing thread and I never heard of factory authorized, dealer installed superchargers, but that really is a good question. Porsche has historically had less HP then the competition. Obviously a company which positions itself with a bias on sport would want to have more power than the competition. Why does Porsche do that? My guess is that they simply know better. I think it's just that 'Light is Right'. I'm a motorcycle nut, I've road raced and moto-crossed many seasons. I've had many bikes but currently only 2; an FZR400 and a YZ125. Both small bikes. I don't like small bikes because they have less power, in fact I love doing burnouts and wheelies on a horizon sucking big bikes. I like them better because they are more fun. They aren't faster in a straight line, but I can ride them just as fast as big ones. These days, I'm constantly teased about about my small bikes. Like I need a rainbow tassles, a bell, and a basket with a flowers on my handlebars.... But whatever,the fewI know who are faster than me (street or dirt) aren't surprised.

Porsches don't need to join in the childish ' My engine has more horsepower than yours' argument currently been played out by many lesser manufacturerers. In this month's Car magazine a boxter S did a lap time identical to a lotus exige ( a track car) and faster than many cars with much more bhp an better straight line figures. The only reason it didn't win the car of the year was that it was too competent and not scary enough!. A footnote to the test said that had a cayman been available it would have probably won, even with its so-called underpowered engine. What we need to remember is that straight line speed is all very nice but roads are not all stright. Porsche has the good sense to give its cars great balance, a far more important attribute. If they were wrong than why is Porsche the most profitable car company on earth? The Catman will toast pretty much all rivalson a normal road. The other point is that Porsche frequently underestimate their figures. We should all be happy thatPorsche use their brains and keep making good SPORTSCARS, not drag racers.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">There is nothing wrong with more power if the chassis can handle it and the Cayman certainly can. [/quote]However, there are tradeoffs like fuel efficiency. [/quote]Having lots of horsepower is fun when you use it but unless you race, most of your driving doesn’t require all the horsepower you pay for in the form of a bigger engine and increased fuel consumption. [/quote]I have found that 0-60 in 5 seconds is plenty fast on public roads and while I would like the Cayman S to be a bit quicker, there is a limit to how much I am willing to spend for it. Porsches are about balance and the total driving experience. [/quote]They are not going to win the stoplight GP against cheaper but more powerful cars. [/quote]If you want the rush of acceleration buy a Corvette or Japanese sportbike (the Carrera GT is also nice for those with very large bank accounts). [/quote]I spent most of my life thinking like you did and I never bought a Porsche because of it. [/quote]My feelings have changed and I am now willing to give up some cutting edge power for a full leather interior, a motor that sounds like a symphony orchestra, and handling that is second to none in a very attractive package[/quote] [/quote] Edited by - BiggerTwin on 12/19/2005 03:49:06 AM

Porsche's have beenunderpowered since they began building cars after the war. The 356 was a flat 4 when Detroit was putting small block V8s in family cars. A good argument can be made for choosing a Vette, particularly a Z06, over any Porsche when it comes to 'stop light' credentials. Nobody likes to be leftin the dust of a straight line pull away, especially after spending the kind of money it takes to get into a Porsche. If other people thinking you wasted your money on an expensive underpowered car is important to you then Porsche shouldn't be on your list of sports cars worth buying. The argument for Porsche ownership really lies in theentertainment you get from driving your car under conditions that you consider sporting. This is particularly true for the Boxster/Cayman chasis which is very gratifying to drive well at whatever level of expertise you bring to the wheel. That experience comes from highly communicative steering, powerful well modulated brakes, carefullytuned suspensionw/ matched wheels/tires, near ideal weight distribution, and a willing powerplant coupled to a transmission matched to the engine's capabilities.Inthe final analysis, the person who should be most impressed by a Porsche's performanceis the owner who drives it. It's primarily an internal reward which can be the hardest to justify objectively. Edited by - DaveC on 12/19/2005 08:01:19 AM

Great replies all! My point would be that a Porsche can still be 'balanced' with another 75-100 hp. Even so, I will take a current Cayman over the look alike detroit monsters being churned out. YOu are right, it isn't only about speed or 0-60 times. I think Porsche can drop faster powerplants in their cars and still maintain the awesome handling they are known for. 'Look for 381 horsepower Caymans in 2006 from Ruf, Techart, Sportec and others' Will these be cars you must take and have modified? Or cars you can buy complete, including warantee? Does anyone know how many Cayman S production cars Porsche will make per year?

Porsche's first year production target for the Cayman is 10,000. After that probably as many as they can sell.

RUF offers a 2 year warranty on their supercharger (kompressor) AND your engine, I don't know of any others that offer that kind of warranty, although the RUF unit is also higher priced than some others. Roughly 8,000 Caymans per year right now is what has been tossed about. BTW, everyone seems to forget about 60-0 or 80-0 or 100-0 times. How well you brake is just as important as how well you accelerate, and in some situations it is the difference between saving your life and not getting in a wreck vs. plowing into something.

I never expected or thought to try and compete with a vette, but I would not like to get crapped on by a Honda, Nissan etc..I would just love to see us find a way to get back 15 or 30 of the missing ponies. Russ

Yes, overall horsepower is something that turns heads, conquors stoplights, and makes people look at the spec sheets, but I agree with the many of you that talk about the total drivng experience... including K-ManS's reminder of the brakes. I've owned 6 Porsches over the last 30 years, and I guess you could say they were all 'underpowered' (especially the 1968 911L targa with 120 hp) accept for my current 996 turbo, but they have all been a blast to drive, and once you get into a corner or two, they'll take most, if not all the 'muscle car' types. As far as the Cayman being underpowered, it has the same hp as the 1999 996 I owned before the turbo, and that car was not underpowered, with 296hp. And the Cayman will be lighter, stiffer, have a much better suspension with the engine in the middle, and the 996 didn't have the variocam plus that the Cayman will have. Following up on K-Man Ss comments, I was driving at Laguna Seca in the turbo last Thursday with a PCA group, and coming up to the famous 'corkscrew' I'm heading uphill on a straight just shy of redline in 3rd, about 90 mph, and you have about 50 feet to threshold brake and get down to about 30 mph to get through the tight left hander that begins the corkscrew. I'll bet I was pulling more than 1g in forward force to accomplish that lap after lap after lap. I defy most other 'performance' street cars to do that without their brake fluid boiling or the peddle going limp, or bringing their rear wheels completely off the ground. I find sometimes that stopping fast and grip in the corners can be more exhilerating than even the brute straightline speed of the 420hp turbo. Give me an all-around performance car anytime over straightline HEMI speed. Sorry to be so long-winded...My $.02. Brad

Other than the fact that street racing is extremely stupid, why not? The Stig got a faster lap time in the Cayman S than the C6 Corvette on Top Gear. Getting the power to the ground is what counts, not how much you have under the hood; or wherever else they happen to put the motor.

In a recent published letter to General Motors, a car enthusiast magazine encouraged GM to make the next Corvette a mid-engine design. To take the Corvette to the next level this is what they would have to do. The Cayman design makes it an ideal candidate for the comparatively easy horsepower increase and LSD modification to make it a true track star. Of course, it has often been said, that it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. So if you purchase a Z06 and don't plan to track it and you don't want it to be a garage queen, you will be driving a very fast car slow.

My last Porsche was a 1979 SC, 180 HP and 0-60mph in 7.8 sec. I actully thought it was pretty quick at that time, 26 years ago. It will be great to get back into Porsche again, and a 5 sec 0-60 will feel awesome I am sure. Russ

And if that isn't enough for you see the chance of a lifetime in my off-topic post.

Is it really underpowered? Or, is 'correctly powered' a better description? Unless your talking about the 911 Turbos or Carerra GTs, Porsche prides itself more on superior handling and braking to compete with other makes rather than relying on brute power. Traditionally, HP is not what driving Porsches is all about. If it was, there are a number of cars, foreign and domestic, for a lot less money which fit that bill and 'outpower' most Porsches. On the flip side, I got my 1998 C4S (282 hp) from the second owner in Florida who had to have a C5 Corvette because the Porsche just didn't have enough muscle! He got what he wanted and I got what I wanted! Love my 993 and will love my Cayman S when I get one.

When I started racing in the 60's, Porsche was often put down for haviing 'tiny' engines. In World Manufacturers Cup races across the globe, they were forced to copmpete in the 'Under two liter' category, giving up tons of horsepower and displacement to the BIG cars. Problem was, they always won their category, and very often smoked all of those really BIG cars. It's not horsepower that makes the car - ity's the total driving experience./fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/MWPX/drive.gif

here's the most EXTREME example of what these guys are trying to prove to you: The Ariel Atom This car only has a Honda VTEC engine producing only 220HP, and is a tad more expensive than a Cayman S. Yet, this car goes 0-60 in 2.7 seconds! To put this in contrast, the Ferrari Enzo can do so at a 3.3 seconds, with 650HP! The HP difference is 430 HP, you can make a damn good sports car with that difference!</P> And it gets much better fuel economy than your average Civic! I'll grab one of these in an instant! Too bad they're not street legal in Canada. (It is in Europe though)

I know that I was wavering back and forth between a Porsche (Boxster until I found out about the Cayman S) or C6. Friends all started telling me how much quicker their Vettes were over the Porsche. I kept reading about the way Porsches have the 'driver' feel and much more enjoyable experience of driving. Finally, went to drive the Boxster and for me sealed the Cayman S deal right then. I really enjoyed the way the Porsche drove over my experiences in the Corvettes. Although I am bias as well since I have dreamed to own a Porsche for years. I have found that I am satisfied with my choice of being of the car I WANT to drive, not what everyone else thinks I should drive for whatever reason.

Caymanites may not want to admit it but I think that every single one of us is disappointed the Cayman has been detuned _on purpose_ by Porsche so that it doesn't cut too deeply into Porsche's cash cow 997/997S sales. We want more power!!! Its absurd when we seriously consider paying RUF $24K for 80 more HP for a Kompressor. Don't misunderstand, I prefer the mid engine feel of my 987 over a 997, butdetuning the Cayman has me on the horns of a dilemma between a 997/997S and a Cayman S. I am tired of avoiding old bald guys in Jags or young guys in FWD ricers who want to drag race my Boxster and it won't happen with my next vehicle purchase. Porsche needs to finally acknowledge the superior mid engine layout, get rid of the near useless 911 back seats,quit being so stingy with HP and give us the option of a factory 3.8L 381 HP mid engine (Cayman) world beater. Here's hoping the 998 or a future Cayman version (don't hold your breath, never happened with the Boxster) willanswer many wishes ...

I just sold my 2004 911GT3 to buy the CaymanS. Yep, sure did. I ahve about 40 track days with the porsche club at various east coast circuits. I started with a boxster non s. Let me tell ya. I kept up with alot of 996's, boxster s's and 993's. I got to the point where I was finally cooking the brakes and nearly overheating the engine (red light on). I went for the gt3 for obvious reasons. Now with 395hp and no driver aids ( no aids on the boxster as well) we are talking awsone. The point is I did 6 track days and simply could not handle the hp. The rear engine and awsome HP required lots of throttle modulation while trying to figure out the car. I decided to dump the car and go with a Cayman s 'package' It should be much more drivable, forgiving etc. I forgot to mention that my lap times with the gt3 where generally a second or two slower than my lowly boxster (except for one memorable lap). I think the package is the point since very few of us will EVER be able to drive the Cayman S to the Limit even in its 295hp guise.

I suppose I still don't understand why a 381hp Cayman S can't be just as 'balanced' and 'driveable' as the 295 hp one? Seems that the tranny can handle it so why not? I'm not suggesting it have 500 hp and run with a Viper. I just want the HP to be within the 'sweet spot' of the car.

It probably could be but isn't an option because Porsche marketing wants the 911 to be the faster car. I am sure the engineers aren't happy designing a car with one hand tied behind their backs either.[/quote]

My last full blown race car was a mid engined '67 Beach Formula VEE with 60 HP. My lap times on most tracks would put me about mid pack with vintage large bore machines (Vettes, cobras, Shelbys, etc.). It was more fun on the track than my '81SC PCA racer. It's the feel and overall performance that counts.