i know this is a no-no

guys i know this is definitely a no-no but i've got to know why other than completly disgracing what porsche stands for, but there's a 1980 911 targa with a LS1 VETTE motor in it for sale for $25,000 only has 27,000 miles on it, don't have any pictures, but i know to porsche enthusiasts this is a disgrace, but it wouldn't cost $1,500 for a tune, if motor blows up it wouldn't cost $15,000 - $20,000 to replace, the original motor has no power, etc... i know this is a stupid question but why is this so bad & i don't want you to say well if you don't know i'm not gonna tell you! i don't care about the price or miles, i just want to know WHY this is just not accepted in the porsche community.

Well...we're talking air cooled 911 here right, not liquid cooled 996. If you've never owned or really lived with an air cooled 911 then it will be harder for you to understand, but I'll try. The Porsche 911 is an historic car (in the very real sense of the word) because it is an engineering triumph. It is a motoring icon because the whole is more than the sum of it's parts. It all works together like magic. A HUGE part of that magic is the air cooled flat six motor. That motor that has won more races than any man can count. It may not be the most powerful motor (although the twelve cylinder version made 1000+ horsepower back in the 1970's before anyone thought it was possible) but the engine is a jewel. It's air cooled, it's dry sump, it's horizontally opposed....it's a true thoroughbred engine and it is at least 75% of the reason that Porsches are as important to the motoring world as they are today. Porsches reputation not just on the street, but on the track was earned with that engine. The style of the 911 is neat and all, pretty maybe, but that's not why they are great. It's all about the motor. So, replace the heart of a 911 with a transplant and you've pretty much lost the reason for owning a Porsche. You might as well brive a Corvette. Sure you can pose away with your V8 911, no one will know the difference just by looking at it. You will also almost certainly win all the stoplight drag races if you ever find another 911 dumb enough to drag race in the first place. That is missing the point of a 911 entirely. Anyway - it really does come down to the "if you have to ask then you won't understand" thing. I know it's a chicken **** answer - sorry. Finally - a tune up shouldn't cost you $1500. If that's what you are paying then you're doing it wrong. You're not taking it in to the dealeship are you?!?

Why not simply buy a 'Vette?

I wouldn't do it to an air cooled Porsche, but if my 996 engine ever expired, I'd sure think about it. All the plumbing is already there.

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jasper, you did a very good job of why not to do that, i just knew that it is no-no but didn't know exactly why, i'd heard that the 1978-83 911 sc engines were really the best of the best, that they are pretty much bullet-proof, on the other hand you need to read my other post (does anybody have any k-y) i posted it yesterday, that is one that i should have asked up front, but no it was done by an indy, the dealership was 100 miles, just read it, thats kind of why i asked about the vette motor thing, i've had a vette, don't want another one, especially the newer ones, they just don't have an identity to them, thx for the explantation.

I think jasper's answer about covers it. For a true enthusiast the magic of the 911 is that air cooled motor. Lots of history and racing pedigree in it. To take that out and put in ANY other motor would ruin the point of the car. Just my 2 cents....

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Who says it is not accepted? At least someone accepted it enough to have it done. Different strokes for different folks. I don't know how the car behaves, handles with that engine, and I don't know the quality of the engine install -- saw a Pontiac Solstice with a 6.0l V8 in it with the engine installed by Mallett Cars back east (I spotted this Solstice at Santa Row in San Jose months ago) and the installation was factory, better than factory, but if the installation is as professional as the Solstice then the car I think would be pretty impressive. Doesn't mean I would want one, but impressive nonetheless. Sincerely, Macster.

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grant911, i sent you a pm, first time i've done that, let me know if you didn't get it.

Ah - just read your other post. I see why you're a bit put off. I don't think the answer is to buy a franken-car though. Everything from the motor mounts to the ignition to the cooling system would be custome built so fabrication shop prices if you're not doing your own service. Personally - I do all my own work and for those jobs I can't do myself...I have good relationships with shops, friends with more resources, or *gulp* paid professionals. I simply don't trust other people to work on my car, never mind the cost - I can't be sure the job is done right unless I see it with my own eyes. Here's a quick story - good buddy and I were out just yesterday for a tear in the mountains. He's in an '89 Carrera in fact. 3.2 litre air cooled car. 230 hp. He could not keep up on the open stretches but I could not shake him in the twisties. Anyway - towards the end of the run he develops a brutal misfire with a ppfft sound. We pull over and scratch our heads. He says he had just taken the car in to an indy for plugs, wires, cap etc. The guy worked cheap and fast apparently. I know this indy though and I'm pretty sure he's a crack head, so I suggest that one of the spark plugs may not be torqued down and has come loose. Sure enough...#4 and the associated wire were all the way out and rattling around on the engine tin. We borrowed a socket and ratchet from a passing motorbiker and bob's you uncle we're back on the road, no harm no foul. So lesson 1 - do not trust even the professionals to do the job right. They'll take screw you *and* take your money. Lesson 2 - air cooled 911 engines are easy to live with. Simple and effective machines. I personally *will* have another air cooled 911 one day. They are great cars.

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macster, he's fooled with cars all his life & he bought it already installed, just put headers & renegade kit on it (i don't know what that is) but he said it runs like a scalded dog, & he's not a porsche guy, actually he does some wheelin-n-dealin

I can't help but think that if you don't want a Corvette, then you also won't want a b@stard 911 with a chevy motor cobbled into the back. There's a reason you don't see many of these conversions around. Besides the number one point, that the 911 motor is plenty good, the V8 Porsches are sure to run hot and make the cars behave very un-911 like. One of the attractive things about the 911 is that the flat six has a very low centre of gravity. The V8 changes that balance. I can't say the V8 is heavier, it may or may not be, but where it carries the weight is the point. It is believed that the high performance rear engine layout of the 911 works only because a group of pig headed and very determined German engineers refused to give in to the laws of physics. They overcame what some would say is a serious design flaw, but only just. Mess with the balance and it won't work, at least not as well as intended. I personally have taken all of my Porsches right to the limit - did this just yesterday in fact - and yeah - this is not something that can be achieved with a U-build chassis. Finally - as far as running like a scalded cat...lot's of cars do that but not very many also handle like precision instruments. Take the Corvette - plenty fast, and they even handle well, but you won't catch me wanting one (never actually driven one so I'm being careful here). You said yourself that you don't want another Corvette...ask yourself why not and you may have your answer.

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Its very accepted as long as you keep it inside your house and never tell anybody what you did. I think your house and car are protected in the States by the Bill of Rights and Provisions Relating to the Right of Privacy.. : )

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Got it.. PM Sent.

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i've always loved the older body style porsches alot better than the newer ones, actually lookin at a few 993's right now, the 98" preferbly, cause of widebody & suppose to be best of that class, at least thats what i've heard, i just think you don't have all of the issues with that chevy motor & there's a hell of alot more indys around here, one for the porsche & he ripped me a new one, next closest is 100 miles & its a dealership, but parts are alot easier to get also, i mean i still have my 02 996 which i love, i didn't even realize it was a porsche the first time i saw it, so i would have one of each (could have my old bodystyle i like & the newer one 996 for different kind of ride) i would get rid of my lambo (replica) but thats the only reason for the vette motor & porsche body.

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yeah but - the rest of the car and parts are still Porsche, like your ignition switch (a $30 part at VW by the way and 30 minutes to install). The Chevy motor doesn't change any of that. More so the transmission and clutch. Which I'm guessing you'll be shredding to pieces about 3 months after you start driving that freak show of a car. About the only non Porsche parts you'll be buying for your truck motor VW will be fan belts, frost plugs and rocker cover gaskets. OMG! I didn't realize OMFG!! Yeah ok - I see where you're coming from now. Ummm, that V8 Porsche might be *just* the car for you after all. Forget all that heritage crap I was rattling on about earlier. Fairy tales, nothing more.

thanks jasper, you've been sweet, forget about that stigma about porsche owners, i didn't realize how much you knew about american made vehicles too!

This is silly. Not the Porsche with the GM small block, but the snobbery that exists that someone has "disgraced" the community with a project like this. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one that doesn't treat the ownership of a car like some kind of religion. I say more power to the guy that got off his *** and actually created something, even if it's not my cup of tea.

a lot of talk and I admit, I read up to the V8 Porsche FrankenVette part and tuned out.... but HAAHAA at Jasper, I read his post

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Yeah and the rest of us here that think that is a bad idea and a mechanical disgrace to match a one ton v8 behind the rear wheels of a light car, pray everynight under the icon of Saint Ferdinand Porsche and every year on September 3rd we visit Maffersdorf town where we was born and light candles and dance around a fire. Come on. No snobbery from my side at least. I mean F Porsche and all their shareholders yes but I just don't like the idea as an idea. And the got off his *** to create something bravo to him can be said for anyone doing anything is not an excuse for a bad concept. John

I think thats my "exit" cue

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

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A one-ton V8? If there's no snobbery on your part, then it's safe to say that I wasn't referring to you. As far as "bad concept" goes, though, you have a little more work to do to convince me of that. Nobody here has driven, much less even SEEN the car in question, yet you're quick to dismiss it as a "bad concept". For all we know this is the slickest engine transplant ever done and it drives like a lightweight 997TT. Especially hilarious to me is this "air-cooled heritage" talk going on in the forum of the first water-cooled 911 models. There's something of a "hierarchy of hate" amongst Porsche owners and this is just another example...air-cooled 911 owners make fun of all the other Porsches, 911 owners hate on the Boxster/Cayman, Boxster/Cayman guys make fun of Panameras and Cayennes, and Panamera/Cayenne owners make fun of all the other makes. CGT owners would probably find something to hate if they weren't busy spending their money. I'm not saying that anyone should be expected to like the modification, but the negative talk about something nobody's even laid eyes on is pretty telling to me.

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Ok 486 pounds but you got the point. It�s not mechanically clever. Maybe if you see the ridicule you�ll start praying with the rest of us. I think the Barnard phrase "A picture is worth a thousand words" is appropriate. About the civil war between Porsche aficionados I agree with you and also I couldn�t care less. People tend to do these things in all aspects of life. Let them be. John

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tooloud, i knew this was gonna **** off some of the porsche die-hards, but i just had to find out why, they think that the porsche is to be idolized & its a disgrace to change one thing on this car unless its oem, or at least it suits them, i just like cars it DOESN'T necessarily have to be a porsche. i'm gonna quote rayS, i think this sums it up, (the fastest race cars & the fastest street cars porsche has ever produced have 1 thing in common, they were all WATER-COOLED, porsche has a great history of air cooled cars, but it is just that a history. like it or not air cooled is a part of porsches past that will probably never return, i never could understand those enthusiasts who could never see past the air-cooled cars)imo the ones that are offended are the air cooled. but some people will always live in the past, by the way ivangene, would you pick me up on the way out

You can do anything you want to these cars. However, once something other than a Porsche engine is installed they are not considered 'Porsches' anymore.

we could turn this into the "most modified P-car thread.... no matter how you gfeel about it, its cool that people do "stuff" and I admire them rather I would or would not do it.. just because I would not do it doesnt mean I dont think its cool they did.... and rather its an old Model T or a 2011 Porsche GT3RS.... having the ***** to modify something is what makes the world a cool place to be. also I have zero input because I have never done those things... In high school I had a buddy put a 396 into a Datsun B210... yea, crazy (scary) but there are always people wanting to do that sort of thing...

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edgy01, thats what one of my porsche old die hard buddies told me when i put WATER in mine, but as far as the other car, no it still has porsche on the title, & you can't tell the difference going down the road, it may sound a lil' meaner

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ivangene i just sent you a pm

^ Johnny listen every time you send a PM you don�t have to announce it. If you keep it a secret it�s ok. John

Besides engine weight and torque to road for the cornering aspect of things, $25k is BS.

JR2010, Would you put that same Chevy engine in the red car in the back of your avatar? If the roles/price were reveresed, would you put the Porsche engine in your Vette?

I think he did......he said it was a replica.....

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yes thundertub, its a replica, but its just a toy, something to play with, i don't get serious about it, i own a business & it attracts a crowd, it serves its purpose & it gets 10 times the looks my 996 or H2 gets, my little boy gets a kick out of it when i take him to school in it & we actually use it for some school functions, but it is what it is & nothing else, i like nice cars & i don't care if its mixed & matched as long as its nice & its not my MAIN ride. but guys i just wanted to ask this question to get an idea, i'm not BUYING this car, i said i had seen it and wanted to get some input & it turned out like i thought it would, there were some that said whatever floats your boat, some that said wtf, some that thought it wasn't a crime, & then theres some that well are jerks & i really don't give a crap what they think, but for the ones that took it for what it was, thank you for taking the time to explain it to me. now let me go find my picture of ferdinand & say my prayers.

Always fun to read as post-911 owners talk like purists. Once you dip your toe in the dirty water, does it really matter how far in you go?

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Can u post some pics? Would luv to see them.

Wow, let me get this straight: the Porsche owner that started the thread about how the installation of a GM engine has disgraced everything Porsche stands for owns a replica Lamborghini? You can't make this stuff up, folks. EDIT: Sorry, Johnnyreb, not trying to sound rude but having a difficult time biting my tongue this morning.

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Is there a list of these rules someplace? Who sets them? Bingo. I'm not surprised that you "get" it, Ed.

Umm for 5k more you can buy my 79 930. I GUARANTEE it will run circles around this V8 powered car. I have got over 15k in just the suspension alone. Hell I want to buy a 02 996 so I might be up for a trade. For more info go to www.porsche930forsale.com . Sorry for the plug but I would hate to loose out on a sale to a V8 powered 911. Scott

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tooloud10, i started the thread & i do have the replica! what i said was that i know that the porsche purists would think that it would be a disgrace, i just wanted to know why. i love porsches but i'm not a porsche purists, i mean i have a 996 for gods sake. isn't that bad enough for a purist. i can appreciate any nice ride i don't care what brand it has on it. but thanks for your understanding, i think your one of the very few that gets it or don't get it, i don't know but i think we're in the minority here. but most of the answers is what i expected!

cardsrule thats a beauitiful car but i use mine for daily & semi-daily driving. i will probably get a 98' 993 next, thats what i was actually looking at when i bought the 02' 996. i think the older (wide body) cars look better but i wanted something a little newer & a few more hp is why i went with the 996. i don't think you'll have any problem with selling it, good luck

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Nicely said, I 100% agree with you

I think the price is too much for a chopped car. Other than that you would have to test drive the car with real driving to find out how it handles at speeds the original car was designed for. Braking, cornering and all the wild ideas of hard handling the originals can deal with. You never know what ugly problems an off the standard design might give. Not the thing to find when set up for a deadly crash if there is a problem in there.

I think if I was ever to swap another engine in that was not a Porsche engine, I would consider the Subaru STI's Boxer 4. You can make 400 wheel very easily with one of these.

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Yeah, I was also confused there, ha.