Chris Harris GT4 review - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Chris Harris on Cars - Porsche Cayman GT4 full test: http://youtu.be/L9-Sr8RPty4 Fill ya boots

The car looks like a riot to drive on the track in Portugal. So the big remaining question from the GT4 thread remains: will it be able to do it on a Wet Tuesday night in Stoke?

sidicks said: V8KSN said: Chris Harris on Cars - Porsche Cayman GT4 full test: http://youtu.be/L9-Sr8RPty4 Fill ya boots Great car. What was very interesting however was the statement "I wouldn't sell a 991 GT3 to have a GT4" (or words to that effect)! He seemed a bit miffed at the steering too. Not writhing around like a vintage 911 ... but then trivialised the observation somewhat. Nice car but in his own words, very obviously not a 911 substitute. Now whens the first 675LT video

V8KSN said: Chris Harris on Cars - Porsche Cayman GT4 full test: http://youtu.be/L9-Sr8RPty4 Fill ya boots Great car. What was very interesting however were the statements "I wouldn't sell a 991 GT3 to have a GT4" and "the GT4 demonstrates what an amazing car the GT3 is" (or words to that effect)! I certainly wasn't expecting that! Edited by sidicks on Monday 9th March 21:55

Evo quick review now up http://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/cayman/15134/porsche-...

Thanks for the link... 3 things... Engine sounds like a BMW S54 inside, not out.. (I have a Z4M) Ride looks choppy\bouncy even on a smooth circuit Gearing... too long... As impressive as it is.... Boxster GTS PDK for me pls.. or the new Spyder.

He's covered the steering on Boxter / Cayman in different guises before, so my take on it was it's just the same and not worth going into detail on. Sounde like he loved it. Porsche need to offer a final drive modification by the sound of it.

looks like brakes are going to be like 997 Gt3 PCCB for H&T on the street. I wonder how the non PCCB 7.2 Gt3s behave for H&T M33UFO? let em know what u think.

Not surprises it handles well, we all expected that from an already brilliant mid engine Cayman that also has many of the GT3 parts. Sounded great from the outside but I have to say a little disappointing inside the cabin and also the tall gearing he didn't seem to like for normal road driving. That said at 65k base its a great car

anonymous said: [redacted] I find myself agreeing with most of your posts recently. This is spot ....along with your comments in another thread regarding 'non' destination drives with groups of strangers!

Why is the gearing a issue on this car but not on the GT3 when I bring it up on that car ?

PorscheGT4 said: Why is the gearing a issue on this car but not on the GT3 when I bring it up on that car ? The 991 GT3 has (much) shorter ratios and (the press pack says) reaches maximum speed in 7th - or are you talking 996/997

Talking manual cars. I see a few GT3 owners comment on gt4 gearing and also a lot of people comment and argue with me when I bring it up on a 996 or 997 GT3 , but now state it is too long on the GT4 ! At least I am consistent and as Harris says the large torque does not make it an issue the only issue seems you don't change gear as much. Yes I think they are all daft doing 80mph plus in 2nd gear but at least I have always said that. Edited by PorscheGT4 on Tuesday 10th March 09:07

The reviews so far are umaminous ,they have made me look forward even more to it. Those trying to piss on people's chips need look elsewhere.

PorscheGT4 said: Talking manual cars. I see a few GT3 owners comment on gt4 gearing and also a lot of people comment and argue with me when I bring it up on a 996 or 997 GT3 , but now state it is too long on the GT4 ! At least I am consistent and as Harris says the large torque does not make it an issue the only issue seems you don't change gear as much. Yes I think they are all daft doing 80mph plus in 2nd gear but at least I have always said that. Edited by PorscheGT4 on Tuesday 10th March 09:07 I think some GT3 owners agree with you regarding the ratios but its your posting style that grates with them, also when you talk about certain roads being '80mph' roads and 'nothing much happens below 6k' with a Mezger engine that they tend to start ignoring you.

It must be difficult to be a motoring journalist and come up with something new and different every time? I would liken it to being a composer of classical music, working today against the backdrop of the huge library already in place? However, two years ago, when the 981 CS was being tested and they addressed the "problem" of the electric steering, they pretty much all said, "but ah, it delivers pinpoint accuracy". The GT4 now delivers "pinpoint accuracy", so does that now mean that the CS actually only delivers "ballpark" accuracy and is that why I am constantly under steering into the curb - if only I had known the truth?

£80k for a well specced GT4. Daft...

IMIA said: £80k for a well specced GT4. Daft... Compared to what - just asking, not as a narky question. 2 seat rear engines cars that will obliterate most things on the road. I'm thinking either lots more money or shonky (but well engineered) kit cars.

sorry £84k and thats without colour to sample in Gulf Blue so £90k in a special colour lol. This is not spec I'd go for but suspect its typical. I'd happily buy a used manual 981 Cayman for £40k if I really wanted a Cayman - it will be almost as good for less than half the cost. GT4 doesn't even look all that quick on track and whilst Harris was trying to be enthusiastic you can tell the engine was a bit of a disappointment compared to the GT3 Base price: £ 64,451.00 Price for equipment: £ 19,875.00 Total Price:* £ 84,326.00 including VAT - Please note the images displayed here may not be a complete and accurate representation of your chosen specification and so they should not be relied on. For further information on the appearence of colour, equipment, and other options, please contact your Porsche Centre. read more Generate Porsche Code Calculate monthly payment Send to Porsche Centre Continue configurationSavePrintShare Description No. Price Price Base price Cayman GT4 £ 64,451.00 Price for Equipment £ 19,875.00 Total Price* £ 84,326.00 Exterior Colour GT Silver Metallic U2 £ 1,595.00 Interior Colour Black (stitching in Platinum Grey) Leather interior 78 £ 1,344.00 Exterior Fuel filler cap with Aluminium look finish Exclusive XYB £ 89.00 Automatically dimming mirrors with integrated rain sensor P13 £ 332.00 Bi-Xenon-Headlights incl. Porsche Dynamic Light System (PDLS) in black 620 £ 477.00 Transmission / Chassis Sport Chrono Package incl. Porsche Track Precision App and preparation for laptrigger 643 £ 1,085.00 Porsche Ceramic Composite Brake (PCCB) 450 £ 4,977.00 6-speed manual gearbox 480 £ 0.00 Wheels 20-inch GT4 wheels 473 £ 0.00 Interior HomeLink® (programmable garage door opener) 608 £ 194.00 Two-zone automatic climate control 573 £ 518.00 Clubsport package 003 £ 2,670.00 Full bucket seats P11 £ 1,907.00 Interior Leather Centre console trim in leather Exclusive XHB £ 162.00 Interior Carbon Carbon interior package Exclusive EGA £ 668.00 Audio / Comm. Electronic logbook 641 £ 356.00 Six disc CD/DVD autochanger 693 £ 396.00 Online Services UN1 £ 122.00 Mobile phone preparation 619 £ 446.00 Sound Package Plus 490 £ 396.00 Porsche Communication Management (PCM) including navigation module with universal audio interface P23 £ 2,141.00 Total Price:* £ 84,326.00 including VAT - Please note the images displayed here may not be a complete and accurate representation of your chosen specification and so they should not be relied on. For further information on the appearence of colour, equipment, and other options, please contact your Porsche Centre.

What a terrible review. The car clearly does not live up to the hype. The used market will be flooded with them when owners realize this and they'll drop like a stone.....hopefully.

Asterix said: IMIA said: £80k for a well specced GT4. Daft... Compared to what - just asking, not as a narky question. 2 seat rear engines cars that will obliterate most things on the road. I'm thinking either lots more money or shonky (but well engineered) kit cars. F360 or F430 Coupe manual with less than 10000-15000 miles maybe? Still almost box fresh I bet. Yes not new etc but honestly this is what I'd have instead in a heart beat...

IMIA said: £80k for a well specced GT4. Daft... I have pretty much thrown most options at it at £73k !

PorscheGT4 said: IMIA said: £80k for a well specced GT4. Daft... I have pretty much thrown most options at it at £73k ! what carbon brakes , buckets and club sport package? thats hardly everything but this what id spec too - nothing else - maybe a funky colour actually

IMIA said: F360 or F430 Coupe manual with less than 10000-15000 miles maybe? Still almost box fresh I bet. Yes not new etc but honestly this is what I'd have instead in a heart beat... a 10 year old car with 3k services prices, chocolate manafolds and steering arms which wear out in 5 minutes ! I really quite liked the idea of a F430 but soon changed my mind.

PorscheGT4 said: IMIA said: F360 or F430 Coupe manual with less than 10000-15000 miles maybe? Still almost box fresh I bet. Yes not new etc but honestly this is what I'd have instead in a heart beat... a 10 year old car with 3k services prices, chocolate manafolds and steering arms which wear out in 5 minutes ! I really quite liked the idea of a F430 but soon changed my mind. i have no experience of Fezzes but yes read about those issues.Nothing that capristo exhaust system inc manifolds and challenge steering arms can't sort.

anonymous said: [redacted] you have no clue and have not lived with the cars and driven them like I have, you know the 981 does many more mph per gear due to the 20" wheels and the lower torque available in the R makes you never even question the gearing ! (and I do mean that, it's not an issue) you have to have driven the cars for a while to get to know them. paper stats can mean anything, it's how the cars work on the road which matters and no ones knows that till they have had them for a few months. hence cars like the 350Z, GT3 and V8 M3 did not stay very long in my owner ship, I am not scared to say how it is and just resell them on after 2 months ( 8 months for the GT3 I really tried to bond with it)

IMIA said: Asterix said: IMIA said: £80k for a well specced GT4. Daft... Compared to what - just asking, not as a narky question. 2 seat rear engines cars that will obliterate most things on the road. I'm thinking either lots more money or shonky (but well engineered) kit cars. F360 or F430 Coupe manual with less than 10000-15000 miles maybe? Still almost box fresh I bet. Yes not new etc but honestly this is what I'd have instead in a heart beat... Would have to be a 'new' comparison only. I do agree, to some degree, with your comment regarding a used CS for a lot less, after all, that's what I drive and it's still a stunning car for any money - but I can't deny I'd love to have plenty more grunt and the feeling of a GT car. I know from experience that a GT3 of comparable age to my CS isn't any faster through the twisties, even with it's Gucci tyres, but it does feel different - everything has an accuracy, tightness and solidity that is missing in the standard cars and it's hard to 'mod' that in as it's part of the integral engineering of the whole package.

IMIA said: what carbon brakes , buckets and club sport package? thats hardly everything but this what id spec too - nothing else - maybe a funky colour actually why would you add carbon brakes to a CS car ? we all know carbon for track only cars would cost you 15k after 10 track days ! so for £73k you can go CS route with no PCM, stitching etc or go full Audi up tarted route. bit like saying a GT3 is 145k no one adds every thing just because the boxes are there to tick ? most people I know are pitching the GT4 at about £71 to £73k then just add the £5k for carbons if you want them on road.

Want one!

anonymous said: [redacted] Yep, chasing the viewing figures and having to refute his real inner being in the process. I also find that his persona is being very specifically honed. His sense of exuberance, flamboyance, theatre seems to expand with each new piece. It looks as though breaking it into mainstream TV is the ultimate goal but then who can blame him, good luck to the fella. He does have a very good way with the camera.

IMIA said: sorry £84k and thats without colour to sample in Gulf Blue so £90k in a special colour lol. This is not spec I'd go for but suspect its typical. I'd happily buy a used manual 981 Cayman for £40k if I really wanted a Cayman - it will be almost as good for less than half the cost. GT4 doesn't even look all that quick on track and whilst Harris was trying to be enthusiastic you can tell the engine was a bit of a disappointment compared to the GT3 Base price: £ 64,451.00 Price for equipment: £ 19,875.00 Total Price:* £ 84,326.00 including VAT - Please note the images displayed here may not be a complete and accurate representation of your chosen specification and so they should not be relied on. For further information on the appearence of colour, equipment, and other options, please contact your Porsche Centre. read more Generate Porsche Code Calculate monthly payment Send to Porsche Centre Continue configurationSavePrintShare Description No. Price Price Base price Cayman GT4 £ 64,451.00 Price for Equipment £ 19,875.00 Total Price* £ 84,326.00 Exterior Colour GT Silver Metallic U2 £ 1,595.00 Interior Colour Black (stitching in Platinum Grey) Leather interior 78 £ 1,344.00 Exterior Fuel filler cap with Aluminium look finish Exclusive XYB £ 89.00 Automatically dimming mirrors with integrated rain sensor P13 £ 332.00 Bi-Xenon-Headlights incl. Porsche Dynamic Light System (PDLS) in black 620 £ 477.00 Transmission / Chassis Sport Chrono Package incl. Porsche Track Precision App and preparation for laptrigger 643 £ 1,085.00 Porsche Ceramic Composite Brake (PCCB) 450 £ 4,977.00 6-speed manual gearbox 480 £ 0.00 Wheels 20-inch GT4 wheels 473 £ 0.00 Interior HomeLink® (programmable garage door opener) 608 £ 194.00 Two-zone automatic climate control 573 £ 518.00 Clubsport package 003 £ 2,670.00 Full bucket seats P11 £ 1,907.00 Interior Leather Centre console trim in leather Exclusive XHB £ 162.00 Interior Carbon Carbon interior package Exclusive EGA £ 668.00 Audio / Comm. Electronic logbook 641 £ 356.00 Six disc CD/DVD autochanger 693 £ 396.00 Online Services UN1 £ 122.00 Mobile phone preparation 619 £ 446.00 Sound Package Plus 490 £ 396.00 Porsche Communication Management (PCM) including navigation module with universal audio interface P23 £ 2,141.00 Total Price:* £ 84,326.00 including VAT - Please note the images displayed here may not be a complete and accurate representation of your chosen specification and so they should not be relied on. For further information on the appearence of colour, equipment, and other options, please contact your Porsche Centre. That spec is full of meaningless tat. Low spec is £72k, high spec is £77k with ceramics. £80k with ceramics and the cage. £72k for a brand new car of this quality is an utter bargain.

IMIA said: F360 or F430 Coupe manual with less than 10000-15000 miles maybe? Still almost box fresh I bet. Yes not new etc but honestly this is what I'd have instead in a heart beat... Oh dear god. Take wither of those on a track and hammer it, and see how big your bills are...

DMC2 said: That spec is full of meaningless tat. Low spec is £72k, high spec is £77k with ceramics. £80k with ceramics and the cage. £72k for a brand new car of this quality is an utter bargain. Oh come on surely the 'online services' option is absolutley critical in a car of this nature...

DMC2 said: IMIA said: F360 or F430 Coupe manual with less than 10000-15000 miles maybe? Still almost box fresh I bet. Yes not new etc but honestly this is what I'd have instead in a heart beat... Oh dear god. Take wither of those on a track and hammer it, and see how big your bills are... If the squeaks and rattles and generally shoddily made interior doesn't get to him within a couple of hundred miles of driving prior to getting to track...

PorscheGT4 said: IMIA said: £80k for a well specced GT4. Daft... I have pretty much thrown most options at it at £73k ! I'm with you there. Mine is coming in at 71k and I feel I've got everything I need - PCM, Buckets, Leather, Carbon Bargain of the century if you ask me

Great review I thought and the car looks epic.

IMIA said: sorry £84k and thats without colour to sample in Gulf Blue so £90k in a special colour lol. This is not spec I'd go for but suspect its typical. I'd happily buy a used manual 981 Cayman for £40k if I really wanted a Cayman - it will be almost as good for less than half the cost. GT4 doesn't even look all that quick on track and whilst Harris was trying to be enthusiastic you can tell the engine was a bit of a disappointment compared to the GT3 I don't quite understand where you are going with this matey? Firstly your spec is not typical at all, its actually the most expensive I have seen anybody put together on all the various forums. £76k with std brakes or £81k with PCCB it the top end anybody is doing and realistically many are speccing strippers at around £68k. Your comparison to an old Cayman makes no sense either - its an old car. If you must make a comparison to the 981 then like for like has to be a brand new GTS at which point the price difference is minimal and 12mths down the line after the first years depreciation the GT4 is likely to end up costing far less to own. Still not sure what NEW car you think represents better value for money as a drivers car than the GT4 at this price. The GT4 was never going to be a better car than the GT3, Porsche just wouldn't want that, but it seems to me that its delivering 90% of a GT3 experience for 65% of the price. Surely that has to make it a bargain in anybody's book.

only car like this is the Evora 400 and that's more expensive.

So first time on track in a Ferrari after 15 years of Porsche ( Many GT cars, track and racing ) and what a revelation completely different way of driving , but loved it

Girls car

Steve Rance said: Girls car no bad thing

looks like a sperm whale. Nice dress though

PorscheGT4 said: only car like this is the Evora 400 and that's more expensive. More expensive without options? You have just specked yours to 73k and the Evora 400 is expected to cost 72k?

I find Chris Harris videos quite tedious, totally the same every time, fine if you like him though.

wevster said: More expensive without options? You have just specked yours to 73k and the Evora 400 is expected to cost 72k? £76k with NO options I thought and 15k lost in the 1st year of owner ship is the bigger issue it will face.

I enjoyed the video review and thought the car looked and sounded mega. I just hope they drop enough In price in a few years for me to be able to afford a lightly used one! So please all go out and buy one :-)

Haha guys but I like girls so cool with me ...... Steve even Mac loved it ..

Financial loss shouldnt be an issue to a true enthusiast and is buying a car for the experience it has to offer

PorscheGT4 said: £76k with NO options I thought and 15k lost in the 1st year of owner ship is the bigger issue it will face. I don't think they have announced a price yet but it mentions a figure off 72k here http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-britishcars/lot... Lotus residuals have always been quite good compared to other makes, obviously it's not going to hold it's value like a GT3 but then will the GT4 if they haven't limited the numbers...

lemmingjames said: Financial loss shouldnt be an issue to a true enthusiast and is buying a car for the experience it has to offer yep you do that once and then take 5 years to recover, so sorry to say for 90% of people cost is the biggest issue. I have avoided many a car to get to where I am in car land now and it was not buying new Lotus's, Alfa's and Maserati's :-)

hunter 66 said: Haha guys but I like girls so cool with me ...... Steve even Mac loved it .. He is starting to worry me.

Wish i could have had an order down for one. Went in a week after and the OPC told me to forget it as would not get one for at least 18 months earliest. Think the car looks amazing........ Still would want it in PDK form right enough...

wevster said: I find Chris Harris videos quite tedious, totally the same every time, fine if you like him though. Agreed. I had to stop watching when he started driving sideways (ie slowly) as usual.

you've got to go insane to get the car to 84k ,like most on here mine comes in at £73k ish,78k if I put ceramics on,but Im not fussed for ceramics,standard 991 gt3 stoppers will do fine for the size and weight. Its fantastic value,ranks alongside the gt3's and GTr (when it was 50k) for truly offering outstanding value.

V8KSN said: Chris Harris on Cars - Porsche Cayman GT4 full test: http://youtu.be/L9-Sr8RPty4 Fill ya boots A good review and makes the Gt4 look like great fun - at least Chris looked like he was having fun. I also enjoyed the tech details with Andreas - very interesting crawling over the detailed chassis changes for the GT4. Given all the adjust-ability in the suspension it is aimed at track junkies. Would I change my 997 Gt3 for a GT4? Would need to try one and there is no chance of that happening.

Steve Rance said: looks like a sperm whale. You have an active imagination.

Looked and didn't see this in here already. Apologies if I missed it. Here's CH writing about the GT4. Slightly different tones in each though not too surprising. Obviously the video is about maximising views and needs pitched accordingly. https://grrc.goodwood.com/road/drives-and-rides/po...

fioran0 said: Looked and didn't see this in here already. Apologies if I missed it. Here's CH writing about the GT4. Slightly different tones in each though not too surprising. Obviously the video is about maximising views and needs pitched accordingly. https://grrc.goodwood.com/road/drives-and-rides/po... watching the video ,Harris's face says more about the car than any words can do.

wevster said: PorscheGT4 said: £76k with NO options I thought and 15k lost in the 1st year of owner ship is the bigger issue it will face. I don't think they have announced a price yet but it mentions a figure off 72k here http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-britishcars/lot... Lotus residuals have always been quite good compared to other makes, obviously it's not going to hold it's value like a GT3 but then will the GT4 if they haven't limited the numbers... Exiges yes Evoras no. My full spec 60 plate would have cost about £65k new. I purchased when 12 months old with 10,000 miles and 2 year warranty for £37k (from a Lotus dealer) I sold for not that much less a few years later and depreciation curve has stopped altogether now but will loose atleast 40% in first 3 years! A good second hand buy yes, new - you'd have to really, really want one!

P155flaps said: Exiges yes Evoras no. My full spec 60 plate would have cost about £65k new. I purchased when 12 months old with 10,000 miles and 2 year warranty for £37k (from a Lotus dealer) I sold for not that much less a few years later and depreciation curve has stopped altogether now but will loose atleast 40% in first 3 years! A good second hand buy yes, new - you'd have to really, really want one! Have to agree. Until now the Exige V6 was always a bit too raw to be direct competitor for other Caymans, but not so vs the GT4. (Other) road tests say the GT4 is seriously compromised for the road because of the noise - tyre roar and gearbox whine in particular, not to mention visibility because of the wing. Just the sort of thing you might say about the Exige. Without a back to back is difficult to say which is better on track or more compromised on the road. You can be pretty sure that the Exige steering and gear ratios will be better, the gearchange itself (and residuals!!!) much worse. Residuals would doubtless make the GT4 much the more sensible buy (if you could get one) but these sorts of cars are not bought for "sensible" reasons. I don't think the Evora is a competitor for the GT4 - it isn't so track focussed.

PorscheGT4 said: All valid points though, and I only quoting what people say here . most DO say, it allows them to be able to steer the car and hit the apex ! (that's NOT me saying it, but I see that time and time again by OWNERS" which does imply in a manual, they could not get round a bend very well before ! No they don't! PorscheGT4 said: As for the "GT3 does not count" in any automatic threads seems daft, it is what it is, an automatic, if one likes it because it aids faster lap times then one buys one. If you want move interaction and still want a GT3 one buys a 997.2 RS, you can swap between the 2 these days they are the same price. It did not float my boat, I could have had a GT3, was offered one 3 times at list price, I just did not fancy an automatic how ever good it was. I think it looks great, it's amazingly fast, the PDK-S is the best yet, high resale investment, but there has to be a want to own one which for me was lacking. I could have kept my GT3 for an investment and made 30k on it very fast, but cars to me are not investments, if I don't want to drive it then it gets sold on. If people love driving 991 GT3 that's great if people love driving the new manual GT4 that's great, if people can own both that's lucky and great. seems the market is big for both as the GT3 and the GT4 both sold out in the UK. and last is NOT "but totally irrelevant for this discussion." daft on a GT4 thread which is manual only car how PDK can even be talked about ? You miss the point - presumably deliberately. You honestly think that people bought the 991 GT3 because they were too scared to drive a manual?

Another thread ruined with the tedious pdk nonsense. Back on topic , has anyone who is getting one heArd anything yet? It's all gone quiet ,I may chase them today.

sidicks said: You miss the point - presumably deliberately. You honestly think that people bought the 991 GT3 because they were too scared to drive a manual? Nope don't misquote me ;-p I am playing with you guys, but I need to go to work now, thread was tits up after page 6.

PorscheGT4 said: Talking manual cars. I see a few GT3 owners comment on gt4 gearing and also a lot of people comment and argue with me when I bring it up on a 996 or 997 GT3 , but now state it is too long on the GT4 ! At least I am consistent and as Harris says the large torque does not make it an issue the only issue seems you don't change gear as much. Yes I think they are all daft doing 80mph plus in 2nd gear but at least I have always said that. Edited by PorscheGT4 on Tuesday 10th March 09:07 Had a drive in a manual Cayman GTS yesterday on a decent B road, really enjoyed it and never felt the gearing was too long at all ?? I know in theory it probably is, but for me it seemed totally fine. If the GT4 gearing is the same it certainly won't be putting me off.

As this is a Chris Harris thread, coincidentally that reminds me it was the monkey who specifically said the PDK S box in the GT3 was superior to that in the 458 Speciale. Could hardly be the case if it was standard PDK. And which gearbox has Porsche seen fit to grace the 991 GT3 RS?.......oh yes.....the PDK S! Praise indeed. Back on the GT4, due to innapropriate gearing still hoping for a PDK on the second run.....although probably unlikely.....

PDK is a great gearbox PDK S is am amazing gearbox A manual will always be a manual All 3 are great, horses for courses!

A PDK second run of cars would suit me much better than a manual It's not to do with my driving ability, but I just prefer the modern paddle shift boxes over a manual, but that's me and everyone to their own

wevster said: You guys make me laugh, you take everything Chris Harris says a gospel. He goes to the airport in a car lent by Porsche, gets flown expenses free to Portugal and rags their new car around that track so that he can make a video/write reviews of the car to earn cash. do you think he is going to slag the car off? He also has unprecedented access to a lot of Porsche cars is he going to risk his earning potential? Even if it's a dog Chris isn't going to tell you. The guy may as well be working for Porsche... This is actually a really offensive charge to throw at someone. I'm not a fan of current established model in automotive journalism of accepting junkets (and write for an outlet that doesn't allow me to accept them, but we're in the minority). But it doesn't make a difference if Porsche pay to fly a journalist somewhere or their publication pays; in neither case are they out of pocket, and they still get to drive the cars. As cmoose points out, there are other problems with destination car launches. You don't get to spend long enough with the cars to form a real verdict and the process is obviously controlled by the car company.

av185 said: Back on the GT4, due to innapropriate gearing still hoping for a PDK on the second run.....although probably unlikely..... FWIW the report http://www.9tro.com/features/new-cars/porsche-caym... rather implies not, though the wording is rather vague, saying they would offer both boxes "next time around" whatever that might mean. It could mean the next production run of the GT4, but it's a funny way of putting it if they did.

I have always said it is largely impossible to form a valid opinion on a car for the average punter from merely driving it for hour on the road or ragging round a track as most of the journos do. Maybe an extreme example, an Aventador may be a laugh a minute driving to the pub on a nice Sunday afternoon....but living with one on a day to day basis would be no joke.

franki68 said: Another thread ruined with the tedious pdk nonsense. Back on topic , has anyone who is getting one heArd anything yet? It's all gone quiet ,I may chase them today. No real news, mine is still due in January complete with manual box

anonymous said: [redacted] There are two approaches to this debate which I dismiss/don't agree with. One is that of PorscheGT4, which is pure bulls t from start to finish... and the other is the point you make here, cmoose. You are NOT in full control of changing gear in manual boxes. The mechanism is doing that for you, in the form of syncromesh. The only way you can be in control of the entire process is to drive a crash 'box. You can tell yourself you're in full control if you like, and you can rev match til the cows come home but you never know if you've got it exactly right or not because you can't prevent the syncromesh from doing it's job and masking your input.

heebeegeetee said: syncromesh. That's getting into the semantics though - it helps with engaging the gear teeth rather than controlling the changing of gears. Given synchromesh has been an integral part of manual gearboxes for least, what, 60 years(?), I don't think it is worth mentioning. Especialy as you can't buy a vaguely modern road car without it! Wanting to ditch synchromesh is more extreme than wanting to avoid stuff like power steering, brake servos, clutch delay valves, electronic throttles, programmable fuel/spark management.... I guess there are some people who love vintage cars for that sort of reason though - controlling ignition advance on the move, driving without synchromesh etc. I guess they are at the opposite end of the spectrum to people who prefer PDKs because manuals get in the way of enjoying driving.

braddo said: That's getting into the semantics though - it helps with engaging the gear teeth rather than controlling the changing of gears. Given synchromesh has been an integral part of manual gearboxes for least, what, 60 years(?), I don't think it is worth mentioning. Especialy as you can't buy a vaguely modern road car without it! Wanting to ditch synchromesh is more extreme than wanting to avoid stuff like power steering, brake servos, clutch delay valves, electronic throttles, programmable fuel/spark management.... I guess there are some people who love vintage cars for that sort of reason though - controlling ignition advance on the move, driving without synchromesh etc. I guess they are at the opposite end of the spectrum to people who prefer PDKs because manuals get in the way of enjoying driving. Has anyone suggested this to be the case?

braddo said: That's getting into the semantics though - it helps with engaging the gear teeth rather than controlling the changing of gears. Given synchromesh has been an integral part of manual gearboxes for least, what, 60 years(?), I don't think it is worth mentioning. Especialy as you can't buy a vaguely modern road car without it! Wanting to ditch synchromesh is more extreme than wanting to avoid stuff like power steering, brake servos, clutch delay valves, electronic throttles, programmable fuel/spark management.... I guess there are some people who love vintage cars for that sort of reason though - controlling ignition advance on the move, driving without synchromesh etc. I guess they are at the opposite end of the spectrum to people who prefer PDKs because manuals get in the way of enjoying driving. The point is that the existence of synchro can not be denied or dismissed, and the synchro takes just about all of the skill out of changing gear imo. sidicks said: braddo said: That's getting into the semantics though - it helps with engaging the gear teeth rather than controlling the changing of gears. Given synchromesh has been an integral part of manual gearboxes for least, what, 60 years(?), I don't think it is worth mentioning. Especialy as you can't buy a vaguely modern road car without it! Wanting to ditch synchromesh is more extreme than wanting to avoid stuff like power steering, brake servos, clutch delay valves, electronic throttles, programmable fuel/spark management.... I guess there are some people who love vintage cars for that sort of reason though - controlling ignition advance on the move, driving without synchromesh etc. I guess they are at the opposite end of the spectrum to people who prefer PDKs because manuals get in the way of enjoying driving. Has anyone suggested this to be the case? Were I to discover that the majority of VSCC members drove pdk/dsg type thingy in their modern cars, I would not be at all surprised. And I tell you (solely for the benefit of anyone who may not know ) the machines that some of the VSCC lot drive make the rest of us look like a complete bunch of poofs. The idea that the ownership of a modern car automatically determines us as driving gods is a total b ks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfYbH7926gk

sidicks said: braddo said: I guess they are at the opposite end of the spectrum to people who prefer PDKs because manuals get in the way of enjoying driving. Has anyone suggested this to be the case? I was just suggesting that if you had a spectrum of people's preferences about the impact of gearboxes on driving enjoyment, at one end you would have someone who wants no synchros on their manual, while at the other end you would have someone who wants a 'box that does everything for them. There is no wrong preference. But what's important is that there be choice. Hence, it is excellent that the GT4 is manual-only.

koorby said: For all those who prefer manuals and say they feel more "connected" to the car - I take the exact opposite view; with a PDK I keep both my hands on the steering wheel where they belong, my left leg is relaxed and I'm much more focused on steering the car to place the nose exactly where I want on the apex etc. I can still use throttle control and ultimately it's a much safer way to travel quickly through twisty hilly roads, which I assume is why most people buy these cars.

anonymous said: [redacted] Unfortunately, there seems to be a hint of 'manuals are for real drivers' mentality on here recently (maybe because Chris Harris says so, so it must be true), so anyone stepping up and actually saying they prefer a PDK or similar paddle shift system would end up quietly ridiculed for not being a real man I think the proof is in the numbers that some other manufacturers of (italian) sports cars offered up both options, and the actual manual orders were so small that they stopped offering them at all If the 991GT3 had been manual or PDK, I'm sure the numbers of manual cars would've been similarly small In reality, everyone loves to proclaim themselves as a driving god, but in actual fact, many of us (myself included) are actually just quite average and would benefit from having both hands on the wheel in most hard driving situations I missed the boat with GT3's and then again with the GT4, so I'll probably be going V10+ R8 as my next weekend car. The choice is taken away from me there on the 15 model, but having driven both manual and DSG current V10+ models, I'd go DSG every time Had I been given the choice on my returned Gt4 deposit, then I would've gone PDK every time too, but I do applaud Porsche for making it a manual only car for no other reason than to stick out from the crowd and help imbed their 'drivers car brand' image

I would do Pskov for the sole reason that I can left foot brake. All the time. 😛