My PEC Day in the CGTS - Page 2 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

So finally my PEC day arrived - four weeks after placing my initial deposit. In the run up to the day they asked whether I was interested in a manual or PDK. I said manual but I also wanted to try a CGTS with X73 SS as I have heard so many good comments on here about that set up. The manual car has PASM but they said they could also let me try a PDK with X73 SS. So I had two cars to try out which was good. Arrived on the day at 09:00, met my pro driver Colin for the day, had breakfast & then a group debriefing about the course/track etc. Colin asked me over breakfast what I wanted to get out of the day - one of the main considerations was the X73 apart from the characteristics of the car & what it can do. Colin was quite happy to tailor the session to me & what I was particularly looking for. First up was the manual with PASM. I was really surprised how the electric damping in sports & sports+ really makes a difference around the track. I managed to almost spin out on one of the corners as i applied the power too early. Next up was the PDK with X73 SS - what I really waiting for with anticipation. It was firmer, but not too crashy & had a little more 'feel'. Colin suggested we take the car off track & spend a few minutes on public roads as the PEC track is pretty smooth. Yeah, it ok, may be a bit more 'choppy' than PASM. Having had a good chat afterwards with Colin & what I will be using the car for (my main daily car, short commute to work, weekends out, probably no track use) he thought it might be too much with SS as a daily drive & suggested for me I should go with PASM. Don't get me wrong the X73 SS wasn't too harsh (I've had a 993 & 996 turbo which were probably stiffer) but could be as an everyday car for me personally. The other great surprise was how much I was impressed with the PDK - so much better than previous Porsche tips I've owned. You also get launch control with PDK (although probably unlikely to use it on public roads). It's a fab day out; but also helped me to decide on what's right for me/my style of driving etc. There were also a few Cayman's in the fleet in different colours which was nice to see. So, before I went on the PEC day I was thinking Carrera White, Satin Wheels, manual with X73 SS. Now I'am looking more towards Guards Red, PDK with PASM. A complete change around. but that's what these sessions are all about, it helps you to spec your car.

That sounds like a very informative and positive day, as you have found out what you needed to know. I very much came to a similar conclusion, did you get to try a car with the PCCB's? As that's a whole new world of feel and performance.

AndyCGTS said: That sounds like a very informative and positive day, as you have found out what you needed to know. I very much came to a similar conclusion, did you get to try a car with the PCCB's? As that's a whole new world of feel and performance. No unfortunately I didn't try a car with PCCB's. I bet it must be impressive.

Andrew911 said: No unfortunately I didn't try a car with PCCB's. I bet it must be impressive. Good write up. Do you get a whole day with the car?

Milnsey said: Good write up. Do you get a whole day with the car? It's a half day session, which includes breakfast, a group discussion about the track etc, chat with their personal trainer (runs through some of the training they give pro race drivers), around two and half hours driving, coffee & lunch.

Great report, many thanks for taking the time to post. Interestingly on my experience session I wanted to try Boxster GTS with and without PCCB. The PCCB equipped car came with the sports suspension, the standard braked car came with PASM. Both cars had PDK. My consultant said the same recommendations with suspension, if I was planning to do any track time choose sport suspension, if not PASM. We also went for a few miles on public roads with both cars, sport suspension combined with PCCB was pretty much the same ride, dealt with rough roads about the same as PASM in sport mode, but the consultant advised me that was likely due to the 12kg less unsprung weight of PCCB helping ride quality, bump absorption wouldn't be as good on standard brakes. The latest PDK is a huge improvement on earlier versions I had on my previous 997/2 Carrera S and 987/2 Cayman S, smoother and faster shifting. So I ended up with PASM, PDK, PTV and PCCB on our Boxster. If you can justify the expense PCCB are tremendous, better ride, sharper steering feel and better brake feel. Edited by dreamcar on Sunday 22 March 10:03

Carrara White, as in Marble......

dreamcar said: The latest PDK is a huge improvement on earlier versions I had on my previous 997/2 Carrera S and 987/2 Cayman S, smoother and faster shifting. So I ended up with PASM, PDK, PTV and PCCB on our Boxster. If you can justify the expense PCCB are tremendous, better ride, sharper steering feel and better brake feel. Edited by dreamcar on Sunday 22 March 10:03 The PCCB do sound great - not just about braking but also better ride, steering etc. But spec'ing them would put up my already restrained cost up to £70K, which I don't think I could really justify.

Andrew911 said: The PCCB do sound great - not just about braking but also better ride, steering etc. But spec'ing them would put up my already restrained cost up to £70K, which I don't think I could really justify. I agree - you have to stop somewhere!! I compromised elsewhere to reduce the cost impact of PCCB, I was planning to do factory collection, deleted that saving £2.5k; I also originally specified the GTS interior pack, but having seen that on an actual car neither SWMBO or I liked the carbon, made the interior very dark, so deleted that and replaced with interior package painted and centre console trim in carrara white which we are now glad we did as the result is classy and stunning ( also saved £1.5k). I have to admit the interior package painted only really works with certain colours, I wouldn't have chosen it if my exterior choice had been silver, grey or black. So my final spec was "only" £1k over what we had originally envisaged with PCCB added. Each to their own of course, but as a sports car I gave priority to those options that improved the driving rather than expensive cosmetic extras such as the interior pack. Edited by dreamcar on Monday 23 March 11:15

dreamcar said: I agree - you have to stop somewhere!! I compromised elsewhere to reduce the cost impact of PCCB, I was planning to do factory collection, deleted that saving £2.5k; I also originally specified the GTS interior pack, but having seen that on an actual car neither SWMBO or I liked the carbon, made the interior very dark, so deleted that and replaced with interior package painted and centre console trim in carrara white which we are now glad we did as the result is classy and stunning ( also saved £1.5k). I have to admit the interior package painted only really works with certain colours, I wouldn't have chosen it if my exterior choice had been silver, grey or black. So my final spec was "only" £1k over what we had originally envisaged with PCCB added. Each to their own of course, but as a sports car I gave priority to those options that improved the driving rather than expensive cosmetic extras such as the interior pack. Edited by dreamcar on Monday 23 March 11:15 WOW. PCCB must be good. You must have really noticed a difference to give them priority.

dreamcar said: Definitely. Brake feel, improved ride, sharper steering. Added to that they look great, and come car washing time hardly any brake dust and having to drive the car after washing to dry the brakes to prevent corrosion also a thing of the past. Only downside is the cost. Ummm May have to rethink the budget then. May see if my OPC could arrange another PEC day to try them out

Andrew911 said: WOW. PCCB must be good. You must have really noticed a difference to give them priority. Definitely. Progressive brake feel, improved ride, sharper steering. Added to that they look great, and come car washing time hardly any brake dust and having to drive the car after washing to dry the brakes to prevent corrosion also a thing of the past. The two complaints I've read about - squeaking and poor bite when cold simply hasn't happened. Only downside is the cost, both initial and if you are unfortunate enough to chip a disc, there is a risk of this when wheel changing, dropping a wheel on the disc, avoided by simply buying a pair of guide studs which eliminates the risk - you never know, might have a puncture away from an OPC, or change tyres away from one, and end up in a tyre shop that doesn't realise the risk. Edited by dreamcar on Monday 23 March 11:49

Andrew911 said: Ummm May have to rethink the budget then. May see if my OPC could arrange another PEC day to try them out PCCB bears a parallel to Boxster / Cayman GTS versus the S models on which they are based IMO, with PCCB you get slightly better steering, slightly better feel and response, slightly better ride quality, they look better, last longer, are cleaner, don't corrode - but all those add up to an overall significant improvement, much like Boxster / Cayman S to Boxster / Cayman GTS , the little improvements which come with GTS makes those cars so much better. Edited by dreamcar on Monday 23 March 13:30

dreamcar said: PCCB bears a parallel to Boxster / Cayman GTS versus the S models on which they are based IMO, with PCCB you get slightly better steering, slightly better feel and response, slightly better ride quality, they look better, last longer, are cleaner, don't corrode - but all those add up to an overall significant improvement, much like Boxster / Cayman S to Boxster / Cayman GTS , the little improvements which come with GTS makes those cars so much better. Edited by dreamcar on Monday 23 March 13:30 ok I'am sold I may have to sell a kidney at this rate. Apart from the initial upfront cost are there any cons in having PCCB's? I did read on here someone said you have to be very very careful on who you choose to change your tyres/wheels in case they knock them.

Andrew911 said: ok I'am sold I may have to sell a kidney at this rate. Apart from the initial upfront cost are there any cons in having PCCB's? I did read on here someone said you have to be very very careful on who you choose to change your tyres/wheels in case they knock them. That's why I purchased guide bars (two) which screw into the threaded holes that the wheel studs fit, guide the wheels on and off and remove the risk of the wheel dropping on the discs when removing / refitting. They cost £20 from my OPC. There are instructions on using them in the owners manual. If you plan to regularly track the car this can lead to premature wear (as with iron discs - but are a lot more expensive to replace)! If you drive down gravel tracks frequently there is a possibility of getting a stone trapped between disc and caliper which could possibly take out a disc. The best advice I can give you is as per your original suggestion - ask your dealer to arrange another visit to the Experience Centre at Silverstone and have a comparison drive in cars with and without PCCB. They are an expensive option and you need to satisfy yourself that they are worth the money - or not. [ Edited by dreamcar on Monday 23 March 16:16

dreamcar said: That's why I purchased guide bars (two) which screw into the threaded holes that the wheel studs fit, guide the wheels on and off and remove the risk of the wheel dropping on the discs when removing / refitting. They cost £20 from my OPC. There are instructions on using them in the owners manual. If you plan to regularly track the car this can lead to premature wear (as with iron discs - but are a lot more expensive to replace)! If you drive down gravel tracks frequently there is a possibility of getting a stone trapped between disc and caliper which could possibly take out a disc. Edited by dreamcar on Monday 23 March 15:53 Thanks for the advice. Do you track your car? Just wondering if that played a part in deciding to go for PCCB's.

dreamcar said: The best advice I can give you is as per your original suggestion - ask your dealer to arrange another visit to the Experience Centre at Silverstone and have a comparison drive in cars with and without PCCB. They are an expensive option and you need to satisfy yourself that they are worth the money - or not. [ Edited by dreamcar on Monday 23 March 16:16 Definitely agree with that. The car I tried at the PEC had PCCBs and although they were excellent, I'm not convinced I actually preferred them to my own car (which I drove there) and has steel brakes. The instructor thought they were overkill for the road - and others have said they are a (financial) liability on the track. Ride? I couldn't say I noticed any difference, but the PEC track is very smooth - so I would suggest doing a bit of driving on the roads if you can. There are some pretty dreadful roads around Silverstone (just turn left at the gate at the first roundabout and go straight on). Steering? Not sure, again not much difference but my car is on 19s the PEC car 20. The other thing I would say is look at the tyres, a different make of tyre is likely to be as make a similar difference to steering and ride as the brakes are. There are significant (3kg +) differences in the weights of the approved tyres which can also muddy the waters. That all can make it difficult to make sensible judgements - but given the cost it's well doing your homework and testing to get the best information you can before making your final choice.

bcr5784 said: Definitely agree with that. The car I tried at the PEC had PCCBs and although they were excellent, I'm not convinced I actually preferred them to my own car (which I drove there) and has steel brakes. The instructor thought they were overkill for the road - and others have said they are a (financial) liability on the track. Ride? I couldn't say I noticed any difference, but the PEC track is very smooth - so I would suggest doing a bit of driving on the roads if you can. There are some pretty dreadful roads around Silverstone (just turn left at the gate at the first roundabout and go straight on). Steering? Not sure, again not much difference but my car is on 19s the PEC car 20. The other thing I would say is look at the tyres, a different make of tyre is likely to be as make a similar difference to steering and ride as the brakes are. There are significant (3kg +) differences in the weights of the approved tyres which can also muddy the waters. That all can make it difficult to make sensible judgements - but given the cost it's well doing your homework and testing to get the best information you can before making your final choice. Yep good advice. it is easy to go with the flow on these forums as I found out with comparing X73 SS with PASM. Most on here seem to prefer the SS set up whereas after my PEC day I'll be opting for PASM. I'll try & see if I can get another PEC day arranged.

I’ve arranged my PEC day for next week, asked for PCCB and x73 equipped CGTS and was told none available on that day. Does anyone know how many GTS’s are actually on the fleet at Silverstone?

Milnsey said: I’ve arranged my PEC day for next week, asked for PCCB and x73 equipped CGTS and was told none available on that day. Does anyone know how many GTS’s are actually on the fleet at Silverstone? I had two CGTS last friday. One manual with PASM & the other PDK with X73 which they arranged for me, neither had PCCB's. It looked like they had one other CGTS from what I could see plus at least 4 non GTS Caymans. In total they have around 100 cars in the PEC fleet. Sorry I didn't pay any attention if any had PCCB's - wished I had.

Milnsey said: I’ve arranged my PEC day for next week, asked for PCCB and x73 equipped CGTS and was told none available on that day. Does anyone know how many GTS’s are actually on the fleet at Silverstone? For the purpose of comparison it wouldn't really matter if you tried Boxster or Cayman with / without PCCB - the cars drive very similarly and it's only the difference in the brakes you are interested in. When we did our half day experience in October they had Boxster GTS with and without PCCB

Milnsey said: I’ve arranged my PEC day for next week, asked for PCCB and x73 equipped CGTS and was told none available on that day. Does anyone know how many GTS’s are actually on the fleet at Silverstone? Might be worth seeing if they have an S with PCCB, X73 and 20" wheels if you are just trying to see whether you want those two options. Should drive exactly like a CGTS apart from a little top end go.

Andrew911 said: Thanks for the advice. Do you track your car? Just wondering if that played a part in deciding to go for PCCB's. I may do the very occasional track day but that possibility didn't play any part in the choice of PCCB.

dreamcar said: For the purpose of comparison it wouldn't really matter if you tried Boxster or Cayman with / without PCCB - the cars drive very similarly and it's only the difference in the brakes you are interested in. When we did our half day experience in October they had Boxster GTS with and without PCCB Depends on whether it really is just braking power you are interested in. While the cars are very similar, the general view is that the extra stiffness of the Cayman does make the handling and possibly the ride subtly different. Given that the differences PCCBs make in this area are likely to be subtle, you might be muddying the waters a bit basing your decision on a Boxster.

Andrew911, I've gone round the houses on whether to order PCCBs on my BGTS. I've fallen into the steel camp primarily from a cost PoV as in every aspect they just seem to fall on the wrong side of VFM for me 1) bit too expensive initially for no major driving feel benefits. For me a £5k option should make the car night and day different, whereas I would suspect that most people couldn't tell the difference unless they drive one of each back to back. 2) theyre not the best option for the track unless you've got very deep pockets, which seems a bit pointless to me, and for the road the steels will more than do the job 3) replacement cost - should you be unlucky somehow and need to replace them with original items, it's of the order of £9k or so 4) come resale if selling privately, I think many people will actually be put off 981s with PCCBs as the risk of having to replace them will be a massive %tage of the value of the car in a few years time even if they go aftermarket. Even when I was looking for my GT3, I automatically discounted anything with PCCBs On the plus side they do look great and fill the wheels very well. Just too much of a whiff of form, style and prestige over useful function or me at that price and cost risk, even for Porsche

Thanks everyone so far for all the comments. Appreciate comments in favour for opting or not for PCCB's. I guess I really need to try these first before making any decision.

Andrew911 said: Thanks everyone so far for all the comments. Appreciate comments in favour for opting or not for PCCB's. I guess I really need to try these first before making any decision. PCCB can be emotive! Very much a "marmite" subject - some wouldn't have them others wouldn't have anything else - there is no right or wrong.

EVO did a test last month on steel versus carbon brakes with repeated 100 mph to 0 stops. Haven't got the mag to hand but basically until the steels started to go off through heat, which would be presumably after hard track use, the stopping distances were virtually identical. Once the steels got too much heat in them the they then took much longer to stop, think that was at about ten 100 to 0 stops. Very noticeable that the carbons were very consistent throughout although from memory the first couple of stops took longer than the steels which could have a bearing if predominant use is to be street based where you will take time to get the heat into them in the first place. Would have expected one of the main benefits to be improved wheel control with the suspension having to deal with a lot less unsprung weight.

J12KJR said: EVO did a test last month on steel versus carbon brakes with repeated 100 mph to 0 stops. Haven't got the mag to hand but basically until the steels started to go off through heat, which would be presumably after hard track use, the stopping distances were virtually identical. Once the steels got too much heat in them the they then took much longer to stop, think that was at about ten 100 to 0 stops. Very noticeable that the carbons were very consistent throughout although from memory the first couple of stops took longer than the steels which could have a bearing if predominant use is to be street based where you will take time to get the heat into them in the first place. Would have expected one of the main benefits to be improved wheel control with the suspension having to deal with a lot less unsprung weight. Yup, that's pretty much it^^. If the PCCBs behave like the jaguar ones in the test, you'll actually get a bit less braking power until they're properly hot. You'd have to be doing some pretty "vigorous" road driving to get the same heat into the discs as 2 back to back 100mph - 0 stops I imagine