Tyres Michelin v Pirelli - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

My 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS is getting close to a new set required. I have heard reports that the PS4’s are quieter than the Pzero’s But wear quicker. Interested to hear if anyone has tried both please . Must say, the P zeros have been faultless , having done 3 weeks in the alps and various road trips this year. Black circles seem to offer a fitted price of around £1355 for either sets.

I went from Pzeros to MPS4S on my 981CS and can't think of a single area where the Pzeros were better. General consensus is that the Michelin are better all round.

My view is Michelin are a better option ( less tyre roar:better wet weather performance)

Pirellis age poorly. After approx 4 years the compound is hard & grip compromised. By 5 years they are shot. This is from Chris at Center Gravity. I swopped out 5 year old P Zeros with plenty of tread on my 992.1 turbo and everything was transformed for the better. MPS4S everytime

Some useful feedback there guys, thank you. Car gets used quite a lot so ageing isn’t a problem, but interesting to hear that from CofG

Have fitted the Conti Sport Contact 7. This is on a 991.2 C2S. So far so good but have yet to give them a really solid test. Speaking of tests though... the reviews are very impressive and they compare well to the Michelin.

PS4S is better in almost every way than P Zero, although meaningless tyre tests might say they perform similarly on timed runs. Better in the cold, wet, more feel, more grip, more progressive loss of grip, better ride. Only area P Zero is better is stiffer sidewall gives it a sharper feel on initial turn in. I have swapped brand new P Zeros on cars I have bought for MPS4Ss, no regrets.

Had Pirelli on my GTS, now on Michelin. Trust the latter way more. Pirelli were not good.

We've run both and the Pirelli aren't as bad as 911 owners say and yes they do last longer. However we always choose P4S as the handling is a bit safer. I actually think the Pirelli is more fun as a tyre allows more slip.

This year’s evo tyre test https://www.evo.co.uk/tyre-reviews/18309/best-car-...

mr pg said: I went from Pzeros to MPS4S on my 981CS and can't think of a single area where the Pzeros were better. General consensus is that the Michelin are better all round. Yes, the round ones are definitely better. The Michelin square tyres I tried were dreadful.

mikiec said: This year’s evo tyre test https://www.evo.co.uk/tyre-reviews/18309/best-car-... Held at Continental's proving ground and the winner is...Continental!

Hereward said: mikiec said: This year’s evo tyre test https://www.evo.co.uk/tyre-reviews/18309/best-car-... Held at Continental's proving ground and the winner is...Continental! Read any forum and the Pirelli seems to get a lot of negative commentary, and the ps4s usually very positive.

stanlow45 said: Read any forum and the Pirelli seems to get a lot of negative commentary, and the ps4s usually very positive. Yes, quite amusing that. Quite a few keyboard warriors have promoted that. One, famously, was asked why, if Pirellis were so bad, did so many Porsches, Ferraris and other prestige sports and exotics come with Pirellis as OE. And the answer was ….. the accountants chose them

Just got some prices for the PS4S. N rated. Costco £1058. Fitted. Incredible price, but as soon as I mentioned centre locks, they declined to fit. Blackcircles were £1305 fitted Pirelli’s at Black circles £1378.

Great input guys, thank you.

Koln-RS said: One, famously, was asked why, if Pirellis were so bad, did so many Porsches, Ferraris and other prestige sports and exotics come with Pirellis as OE. And the answer was ….. the accountants chose them EXACTLY

Busa mav said: Just got some prices for the PS4S. N rated. Costco £1058. Fitted. Incredible price, but as soon as I mentioned centre locks, they declined to fit. Blackcircles were £1305 fitted Pirelli’s at Black circles £1378. I would be very very wary of having tyres fitted to a car with centrelocks at anywhere other than a very good specialist, or an OPC. I had an issue with a 997.2 GTS where the OPC had taken the wheels off to do some suspension work and two of the wheels then came loose. Once the car has been driven on with loose centrelocks you have to replace thousands of pounds worth of components. Bearings, hubs, etc etc. OPC picked up the bill in my case. Not so sure somewhere like Blackcircles would do the same.

Switched the all the Pirellis that mine came with for Goodyear Eagles as soon as the rears were worn through (including binning half worn fronts). I found it transformed the car in the wet and they were also a bit quieter. Would love to try Michelins based on the feedback but the n rated ones don't come in my size. I suppose you can choose to either take enthusiast feedback on forums from people who drive them every day and track them, or a sponsored tyre test. All I know is my personal experience of the initial N1 P Zeroes was not great.

jackwood said: Once the car has been driven on with loose centrelocks you have to replace thousands of pounds worth of components. Bearings, hubs, etc etc. OPC picked up the bill in my case. Not so sure somewhere like Blackcircles would do the same. Fair point, my car has PCCB’s , so that would have been a disaster.

Another vote for Conti SC7, superb on my 997.1

It's difficult to assess different tyres - for me anyway - because you are typically replacing an old worn set with new one, so they will always be much quieter due to deeper tread blocks, and probably perform better in nearly every way due to fresher rubber (ride quality being one notable exception). At least to start with - which is when you do the comparing.

Pirellis tend to do best when they're baking hot in my experience - Not prime for UK Conditions; And by the time you consider they are usually amongst the most expensive options, they simply don't do enough to justify the price tag for me. Michelin can be a little squishy on the sidewall (PS4, PS5 and PS4S - In my opinion!) but are a safe performer and tend to do better than most summers at lower temperatures. You'll get excellent milage out of them even if you're driving like a loon. ContiSport6's I've had in the past were stunning in handling - Closest thing to Cup2's that I've tried, but woeful in the cold and very quick to wear. I'd like to try the Conti7's, But I'm still hearing mixed opinions on wear:- The Scientific testing has been very favourable for them. Goodyear usually gets the nod from Tyre Reviews for having a slightly more handling biased construction than Michi's, without compromising too much on liveability. If it's a car that you take out for fun mostly in the summer (Probably not the case here I'm guessing), I would say it's worth *considering* Cup2's for ultimate handling and track enjoyment, but bear in mind they require warming up even in the summer, will wear poorly, and be very loud and harsh. - Handling is biblical though - You've got to try them once

Haltamer said: If it's a car that you take out for fun mostly in the summer (Probably not the case here I'm guessing), I would say it's worth *considering* Cup2's for ultimate handling and track enjoyment, but bear in mind they require warming up even in the summer, will wear poorly, and be very loud and harsh. - Handling is biblical though - You've got to try them once My son suggested CUP 2’s I don’t wish to track the car , and we don’t shy away from using it unless it’s awful out, when the XC60 or S2000 get a trip out. We had 3 weeks in the alps earlier in the year and the car was just laughing at me , and I was pushing on as quick as I have ever done, so don’t need any more performance. It’s a Carrera 4 GTS with rear axle steer and PCCB’s it was amazing, bikers saw the car and were always looking to show us the way ,not one even came close !

Hereward said: Held at Continental's proving ground and the winner is...Continental! Funny that. The CSC7 tops the list, unsurprisingly, but doesn't totally smash everything. Quite far down the ranking on the aquaplaning and road route tests. But, yes, seems like there might be a little correlation there.

mr pg said: I went from Pzeros to MPS4S on my 981CS and can't think of a single area where the Pzeros were better. General consensus is that the Michelin are better all round. Same for my Lotus and my Ferrari. Couldn't wait to get shot of the Pirelli's on the Alfa either

I went from P Zeros to MPS4S. On a super hot day I suspect the Pirellis were marginally better, but for 90%+ of UK days I’d favour the Michelins.

Grantstown said: I went from P Zeros to MPS4S. On a super hot day I suspect the Pirellis were marginally better, but for 90%+ of UK days I’d favour the Michelins. I've just done the same. It's not a fair comparison though, the PZeros were ruined so I'm trying to compare a new tyre to the memory of one that was newish when I bought the car over a year ago. The sidewalls are softer, which I'm not keen on when pushing on, I don't think there is anymore outright grip, but I'll have to wait until the weather warms up before passing final judgment. Currently I'm not sure what all the fuss it about. They Michelins do fit the rims better, so that is good! I've not driven there Cayman (GTS4.0) when it's been really wet since fitting them but never had an issue with the PZeros in the wet. I did the same swap with the Alfa (oh how I miss that car) and felt roughly the same about them then. I did drive that car in the Lakes when it was very, very wet though and do remember the Michelin's were pretty good then.

Does one get intermediate tyres for 992? I have P Zeros and I will be replacing it in summer/autumn. Our summers are relatively short and Autumn—Winter—Spring is probably better on Intermediate tyres. In-it?

‘Intermediates’ is racing terminology - between ‘slicks’ and ‘wets’.

So it’s summer or winter boots? In that case… again our summers are 3 months in a year. Isn’t it more appropriate to drive on winter tyres? I don’t see the need to keep two sets of wheels.

My view is that Michelin tyres are overhyped and “carried” by the motoring press. Yes they’re good tyres yes, but they cost a fortune due to the aggressive marketing spend. I’ve got Cup 2’s for sumner and Pirelli’s for winters. The cups are less comfortable but are better yes, but my NS2r’s on my SLK 55 are better than the Cup 2’s in my view and cost a fraction of the spend. Best to do your research and factor in the intended use of the tyre before following the herd.

Pivo-T said: So it’s summer or winter boots? In that case… again our summers are 3 months in a year. Isn’t it more appropriate to drive on winter tyres? I don’t see the need to keep two sets of wheels. I wish they had the American Pilot Sport AllSeason 4 in the UK - https://youtu.be/421HkK4Nqss Bizarre, but perfect for the UK Climate; Effectively a PS4 with All-Season compound that works in the cold - Or an intermediate in other words Considering that the rest of the year it's hovering around or below the 7c mark (Unseasonably warm this year?) and either wet or damp, they'd be the ideal. Another observation I've heard, which I'm inclined to agree with, is that muddy patches and filth on British B Roads can upset slicker tread compounds, which I am inclined to believe - That is another point in the siped tyre camp. I've swapped to All seasons for the "normal" cars; Vredestein Quatrac Pro's being the closest thing I could find in the EU Market. I use them on the Civic as well as winter tyres, but I prefer to run a more focused summer tyre when it's warmer to get a firmer sidewall and the extra dry traction. It's a bit of a catch 22 really:- Given a perfect summers day, If you gave someone a car on All seasons and sent them out for a day of driving, they'd likely have no complaints - But if you sent them out again with a PS4 / Cup2 you'd certainly notice the sharper handling and braking, Which makes it impossible for me to reccomend a 1 tyre solution for performance cars unless you're open to compromise.

Every car i’ve ever had with P-Zeros factory fitted was transformed immeasurably better by putting anything else on be it Michelin, Goodyear, Bridgestone, yokohama or Continental. They are crap in every condition, the only reason manufacturers spec them i think is because pirelli must give them away for free

The "motoring press" doesn't exist anymore, in terms of a monopolistic block of influence. Pirelli's marketing spend is the biggest of any tyre manufacturer, mainly due to what they blow on being F1s official tyre, for 13 years now. I have asked various manufacturers why they spec Pirellis and in truth in the right conditions P Zeros perform well. I have swapped brand new / just scrubbed in P Zeros on several of my fast cars for PS4Ss so like for like. Michelins better for the reasons I outlined above. I liked the Eagle F1s on my 992, also, though they didn't have the versatility of the PS4S. I have driven various supercars on the road on Cup and Corsas. They are super sharp but need the right conditions and also the right roads and the right car. A memorable drive in spring in a F12 TDF on Corsas saw the car spend more time in the air than on the ground. PS4Ss still the all round choice IMO but I am considering Cups for one of the Ferraris next time she needs a change. If I had a GT3 driven on road mainly in summer I would consider the same, but never for a DD.

Haltamer said: Pivo-T said: So it’s summer or winter boots? In that case… again our summers are 3 months in a year. Isn’t it more appropriate to drive on winter tyres? I don’t see the need to keep two sets of wheels. I wish they had the American Pilot Sport AllSeason 4 in the UK - https://youtu.be/421HkK4Nqss Bizarre, but perfect for the UK Climate; Effectively a PS4 with All-Season compound that works in the cold - Or an intermediate in other words Considering that the rest of the year it's hovering around or below the 7c mark (Unseasonably warm this year?) and either wet or damp, they'd be the ideal. Another observation I've heard, which I'm inclined to agree with, is that muddy patches and filth on British B Roads can upset slicker tread compounds, which I am inclined to believe - That is another point in the siped tyre camp. I've swapped to All seasons for the "normal" cars; Vredestein Quatrac Pro's being the closest thing I could find in the EU Market. I use them on the Civic as well as winter tyres, but I prefer to run a more focused summer tyre when it's warmer to get a firmer sidewall and the extra dry traction. It's a bit of a catch 22 really:- Given a perfect summers day, If you gave someone a car on All seasons and sent them out for a day of driving, they'd likely have no complaints - But if you sent them out again with a PS4 / Cup2 you'd certainly notice the sharper handling and braking, Which makes it impossible for me to reccomend a 1 tyre solution for performance cars unless you're open to compromise. Thanks for sharing, Haltamer The American Pilot Sport AllSeason 4 would do just great in our climate. Perhaps its time to write some letters

My R8 came on Pzeros and they were lethal in the wet and after about 18 months the inner sidewalls were cracked really badly. Bought PS4S to replace them and they were a lot better. Got some ContiSC7 for my yaris to try and they are very good but quite a different car. Seem to be getting great reviews too. But it is quite a lot newer tyre to the 4S so I expect the 5S when it comes out to be decent too.

What are the contis like on the Yaris vs the PS4? My Yaris will need new boots this next quarter I guess so interested?

Haltamer said: Pivo-T said: So it’s summer or winter boots? In that case… again our summers are 3 months in a year. Isn’t it more appropriate to drive on winter tyres? I don’t see the need to keep two sets of wheels. I wish they had the American Pilot Sport AllSeason 4 in the UK - https://youtu.be/421HkK4Nqss Bizarre, but perfect for the UK Climate; Effectively a PS4 with All-Season compound that works in the cold - Or an intermediate in other words Considering that the rest of the year it's hovering around or below the 7c mark (Unseasonably warm this year?) and either wet or damp, they'd be the ideal. Another observation I've heard, which I'm inclined to agree with, is that muddy patches and filth on British B Roads can upset slicker tread compounds, which I am inclined to believe - That is another point in the siped tyre camp. I've swapped to All seasons for the "normal" cars; Vredestein Quatrac Pro's being the closest thing I could find in the EU Market. I use them on the Civic as well as winter tyres, but I prefer to run a more focused summer tyre when it's warmer to get a firmer sidewall and the extra dry traction. It's a bit of a catch 22 really:- Given a perfect summers day, If you gave someone a car on All seasons and sent them out for a day of driving, they'd likely have no complaints - But if you sent them out again with a PS4 / Cup2 you'd certainly notice the sharper handling and braking, Which makes it impossible for me to reccomend a 1 tyre solution for performance cars unless you're open to compromise. https://www.tyre-shopper.co.uk/michelin-pilot-sport-all-season-4-tyres You mean like this?

ellroy said: What are the contis like on the Yaris vs the PS4? My Yaris will need new boots this next quarter I guess so interested? Only had them on since November but they have been great in the colder wet weather up here in Scotland. Quite noisy but I think the Yaris is noisy inside anyway.

It is that. I had a run up to the highlands in mine, the 911 was getting some work, in October when there was some snow & ice- didn’t miss a beat. Perfect tool for the job. Have you tracked it with the contis?

No never been on track with that car. I would like to at somepoint but need to look at insurance.

Tripe Bypass said: Haltamer said: Pivo-T said: So it’s summer or winter boots? In that case… again our summers are 3 months in a year. Isn’t it more appropriate to drive on winter tyres? I don’t see the need to keep two sets of wheels. I wish they had the American Pilot Sport AllSeason 4 in the UK - https://youtu.be/421HkK4Nqss Bizarre, but perfect for the UK Climate; Effectively a PS4 with All-Season compound that works in the cold - Or an intermediate in other words Considering that the rest of the year it's hovering around or below the 7c mark (Unseasonably warm this year?) and either wet or damp, they'd be the ideal. Another observation I've heard, which I'm inclined to agree with, is that muddy patches and filth on British B Roads can upset slicker tread compounds, which I am inclined to believe - That is another point in the siped tyre camp. I've swapped to All seasons for the "normal" cars; Vredestein Quatrac Pro's being the closest thing I could find in the EU Market. I use them on the Civic as well as winter tyres, but I prefer to run a more focused summer tyre when it's warmer to get a firmer sidewall and the extra dry traction. It's a bit of a catch 22 really:- Given a perfect summers day, If you gave someone a car on All seasons and sent them out for a day of driving, they'd likely have no complaints - But if you sent them out again with a PS4 / Cup2 you'd certainly notice the sharper handling and braking, Which makes it impossible for me to reccomend a 1 tyre solution for performance cars unless you're open to compromise. https://www.tyre-shopper.co.uk/michelin-pilot-sport-all-season-4-tyres You mean like this? Thanks for the reference Triple Bypass 8-]

Pivo-T said: Tripe Bypass said: Haltamer said: Pivo-T said: So it’s summer or winter boots? In that case… again our summers are 3 months in a year. Isn’t it more appropriate to drive on winter tyres? I don’t see the need to keep two sets of wheels. I wish they had the American Pilot Sport AllSeason 4 in the UK - https://youtu.be/421HkK4Nqss Bizarre, but perfect for the UK Climate; Effectively a PS4 with All-Season compound that works in the cold - Or an intermediate in other words Considering that the rest of the year it's hovering around or below the 7c mark (Unseasonably warm this year?) and either wet or damp, they'd be the ideal. Another observation I've heard, which I'm inclined to agree with, is that muddy patches and filth on British B Roads can upset slicker tread compounds, which I am inclined to believe - That is another point in the siped tyre camp. I've swapped to All seasons for the "normal" cars; Vredestein Quatrac Pro's being the closest thing I could find in the EU Market. I use them on the Civic as well as winter tyres, but I prefer to run a more focused summer tyre when it's warmer to get a firmer sidewall and the extra dry traction. It's a bit of a catch 22 really:- Given a perfect summers day, If you gave someone a car on All seasons and sent them out for a day of driving, they'd likely have no complaints - But if you sent them out again with a PS4 / Cup2 you'd certainly notice the sharper handling and braking, Which makes it impossible for me to reccomend a 1 tyre solution for performance cars unless you're open to compromise. https://www.tyre-shopper.co.uk/michelin-pilot-sport-all-season-4-tyres You mean like this? Thanks for the reference Triple Bypass 8-] Sadly, my size is not available: 245/35 ZR 20 -- 305/30 ZR 21 Thanks anyway... search continues