Pricing / values

Hello good folks. I am in the lucky position that I can finally join your ranks. I can start shopping for my first 911 and the 996 is within reach. What databases do you normally use to research a cars value or cross reference a cars value. Kelley blue book certainly shows me what I think is a appropriate $ average based on completed eBay sales and what I�ve seen on Rennlist but asking prices on craigslist and stealer ships are in A whole other world. What�s your best suggestion? Or another way to ask is what would be a fair price for A 996 , Fairly original, not tracked, and without a sordid history with 50-85,000 miles what would you say would be a fair value for that? Im not out to insult sellers but many cars In my research most asking prices are often 20% what I�m seeing as fair market value. Thanks for the help!

one resource is bringatrailer.com. search completed auctions and you can search within the completed section for porsche. lots of 996s have traded on that site.

BAT is a place to pay top dollar. CarGurus will show you 100 of cars in various price ranges that you can negotiate with the seller. Also Craiglist.

Welcome and enjoy your search. Be picky ! Go into it with a "Pay it upfront, or pay it later" attitude and you won't be surprised or disappointed. Things like both key fobs and valet key, along with window sticker are proof that all owners have at least a little bit of passion to do right by their car. Preserving those items for nearly 20 years, for me was a positive tell tale. Owners who have done oil analysis on their cars as a tool to monitor the health of their engine is a big plus. PCA members historically have stayed up to date on issues that arise with their chosen model of Porsche and at least been aware of if not been diligent in maintaining their car. If anything, walk away from a car that does not have documented history, or a least proceed with extreme caution. I do want to address, you stated "Not Tracked" in your criteria. You are looking for a Porsche 996, a 15-20 year old sports car. With probably the most prolific European Manufacturer based club (PCA) that has hundreds of track and autocross sanctioned events every year. You are going to reduce the pool you have to choose from pretty rapidly with that criteria. I would imagine there are not many people that would want a dedicated Track Car for their first 996 for street use, but do your some research before you are concrete on that. To participate in a PCA event, every car, for every event has to go through a Tech Inspection. Those Tech inspections are much more rigorous than the average state inspection. In addition not only do those cars get driven as they were intended to be, but the maintenance by owners is generally much more extensive. It actually has to be to pass inspections. Doing are proper PPI at a professional indy or a Porsche dealership is a must. If the track use puts up a barrier for you, over revs will be part of PPI. Just my $.02, but don't be so quick to block investigating a car that has been tracked.

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eBay will probably show the lowest values if you look at actual completed sales (ignoring asking prices). PCA magazine will show a pretty wide range actually, from huge asking prices of guys who maybe don't really want to sell, to very cheap cars people are unloading. Bottom line, I bought my car 4 years ago and have been watching values for close to 5 years and I don't think they're really changing. For a base 996 C2 I think $22k is a good median *cost* to have in your brain. Not necessarily asking price, but *cost* to get it actually working well. Anything in the teens, be wary that it could be a time bomb, but there are some good deals out there and you can definitely get a nice 996 for high teens. Just be ready to spend a few thousand on all the stuff that's probably nearing the end of its life. Clutch, suspension rubber bits, brakes, tires, etc. So if you buy a $17k car, and then you spend $5k making it awesome, you're back not too far away from that $22k ballpark. Don't think you're going to buy a car in the teens and have it be perfect. Anything up in the mid-20s or higher, might be a tad overpriced, but if it's the exact configuration/condition/color/whatever that you want and it has good service history, go for it. If I'm spending $25k or more though, I'd want LOTS of stuff documented to prove that I'm not going to have to put a bunch of money into it right away as I would with a car priced in the teens. Obviously if you're looking at C4S, Turbo, etc. you pay more, and you pay more for lower mileage, later model years, etc. In the end it's worth what you and the seller agree to. But for me personally I wouldn't spend a ton because there are lots of these cars out there, so don't buy the first one you see, and don't pay a huge premium.

OP, What's your budget? I want to prepare you. The ~$20k prices you are seeing does not mean that's the price you pay and you're good-to-go. A lot of people have been bitten because they thought that. Also, this car is a better choice for people who can do perform their own repairs on most things. The biggest problem with them is the engine. It has problems, lots of them actually. I urge you to do some research on them before buying. I own lots of different cars and the 996 is not like any of them. Things can get expensive.....fast!

NYoutftr has a good point about tracking. It's not all bad. In fact it can be good. Those cars will have top-notch maintenance on fluids, brakes, suspension, etc., and people will have fixed all the flimsy stuff that might break on a racetrack. I track my car ~10-15 days a year. I challenge anybody to find any evidence of such. You honestly can't tell by looking at the car, touching it, riding in it, smelling it, whatever. When I sell it I could lie and say "never tracked", and nobody would know except by snooping me online You just gotta look case-by-case. Some people track their cars and ruin them. Other people track their cars and baby them. Same goes for street-only cars.

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Thanks DK, You stated what I attempted to say, lol If I knew how, I would start a thread with one of those response/survey pages and try to find out what percentage of us track, autocross, off-road or street only.

Without having specific examples in mind, it's almost impossible to answer this question - the range is, as you pointed out, staggering.

Thanks guys. I totally understand taking track cars under consideration. Really, what I don�t want is a car from some cheap race boy who drove it hard and put it away wet. A thoughtful individual is a whole different ballgame. Mostly it becomes quickly apparent that some of these cars have been taken care of and others have been beaten on, and it is the beaters I wish to avoid

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Racing is not cheap and you recognize a neglected car right off the bat. There are hundreds of 996's on the market right now. Have you looked at any yet?

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This is a pretty good spot on analysis. I bought my car fairly "cheap" but I have put $5k into it with refreshed suspension, correcting interior stuff, exterior stuff, oil changes, spark plugs, filters, (IMS/clutch/RMS/brakes already completed by the PO within the year), new rear tires, and now it presents as an extremely well maintained car that is worth $20-22k, and probably could sell it for that, but I'd be breaking even. Which I'm fine with. Plus I do all the work myself, probably double or triple that cost if I was paying someone.

The thing about tracking these things is that the chances of a "ticking time-bomb" grow exponentially. The first thing to check for with a car that's been tracked is Type II over-revs (in the MKI cars - MKII cars have 3 or 4 levels of over-revs) and/oil starvation (this usually shows up as bronze/copper in the oil - main journal bearing material). It's unfortunate that because the 996 is considered a "cheap" Porsche, many people buy them, beat on them for a year or so, and then sell them again. Do your homework, and your chances of getting a good one get much better.

If you don't have one yet, get a Durametric cable to check any cars you look at. I owned one for almost 4 months BEFORE I bought my 996. One dealership wouldn't let me use it...and I declined to buy their car.

I�ve seen a few and there is definitely a wide swath in what shape any car Which in turn you know equates to a great degree of variety and pricing. However, and there�s practically no hard metrics that any of these cars actually can sell in the 20 to 22,000 variety. Not EBay, not BaT, not KBB. NADA range is massive and could include values that high but NADA values includes dealerships adding fees to selling prices in order to keep the top end of the market more open to themselves. If you find the median of NADA top 2/3 to throw out Mannheim cars your still talking upper teens for well put together cars. These are actually #�s for actually sold cars

As you noted there is a big variation out there. My budget was similar to yours - I bought my 99 cabrio about a year ago. Here are the details, keep in mind this is just one data point. My car had about 70,000 miles, was basically a one-owner car that was being sold at an independent high-line dealer in the Chicago area. No service records but a good Carfax that had all dealer services shown - I was able to call the dealers and verify that they had done “full” service on the car. Had a PPI done. Car spent its life in California and North Carolina until I bought it and took it to Ohio. Paid $17,000. It needed a clutch, so I had the IMS and RMS done at the same time. Also needed front sway bar links and tires. So ended up with about $21,000 in the car with the work done. Since I have owned it the water pump failed, and I replaced the stereo and all four speakers. It will need a new top soon, but will put the hardtop on when it gets cooler and deal with the convertible top in the spring. Of course if you by a coupe that is a non-issue. Coupes typically seem to be worth about $1000 more than a cabrio, all else being equal. Maybe more if the cabrio does not have a hard top. Again - this is just one data point - but there are nice cars out there to be had. Right now I’m in to mine for close to $22k and will have more after I put the new top on it. Finding a nice one ready to enjoy under $20k seems unlikely but even BAT has had a couple of these recently. BAT has also had a $30k 2000 cabrio recently so there is a lot of pricing variation.