Horrendous insurance quote for 992S - help please! - Page 4 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Hi Folks. I know there are many threads on PH regarding insuring our Porsches but I wanted to ask for some advice specific to my circumstances. I have a 69 plate 992S that I’ve owned since new. It has full PPF. I always use a broker for high value cars because in the event of a claim I want to have the broker fighting my corner rather than me dealing directly with the insurance company. The 992S is my only car. It is my daily driver that I use for commuting. I need cover for 12K miles per year. The car lives on my drive (I don’t have access to a garage) and the drive has no gates. I live in smart enough area in the suburbs of the North East. Last year I paid nearly £2K for my insurance via my broker which I thought was steep. However, the renewal quote (like for like cover but with a different insurer) has come through at a whopping £2,700. When I say like for like cover, this includes nice bits like a posh courtesy car if yours is away being repaired, fully comp cover to drive any of your mates’ cars up to a value of £80K and crucially the insurer is ok with the car having PPF. The broker also looked for a cheaper policy without many bells or whistles and that was less expensive at £2,200 but they wouldn’t insure the car in the end because it has PPF. My current broker says the premium would be significantly cheaper if the 992S were a second car and not being used for commuting. But I’m not interested in buying a second car in a bid to try to solve this problem. 911s are designed to be daily drivers and that’s why I own one. I’m not really fussed about track day cover BTW. Like I said I want to use a broker. Do you folks have any suggestions please? Thank you.

35% increase isn't unheard of in the current climate. Tried Locktons?, and are you in TIPEC or PCGB? - that buys you 10% off their prices.

Ditch the bits that cost you money - like a nice courtesy car. Raise the excess. Just Google for a quote and go direct, the broker is making money somewhere along the process of you buying insurance.

I use Nowell & Richards. I hear A Plan can be decent. Perhaps Aston Lark ( now Howdens ) also worth a call ? As others have said 35% is probably around the average increase being largely reported but obviously when your premium is already pretty high any percentage hurts !

AinsleyB said: Just Google for a quote and go direct, the broker is making money somewhere along the process of you buying insurance. Thanks, but I want a broker for if the worst happens and I need to claim, I want them to fight my corner. My excess is £1,500 which I thought was quite high anyway. Edited by johnny senna on Wednesday 20th December 12:18

AinsleyB said: Ditch the bits that cost you money - like a nice courtesy car. Raise the excess. Just Google for a quote and go direct, the broker is making money somewhere along the process of you buying insurance. The broker will indeed get commission from the Insurer selected but only if they manage to find a policy to suit. Apart from the claim side of things why wouldn't you use a broker to do all the work when it costs you nothing ?

Am I being dumb, why should PPF increase your premium, I didn't even think to tell my insurers abut it ?

My situation is not like for like, but might be worth you exploring: We have a 320d insured with Esure. I then added a 991.1 using their 'multi-car' deal via their 'First Alternative' sub brand. It only added about £150 to the existing policy, and is now £336 per year for both cars. Might be worth a punt.

Just as a price comparison, I’d recommend getting a quote direct from Admiral. When I insured my new 992S a few months ago, they were one of the few insurers willing to insure it. In contrast, everyone would insure the 996 that i owned previously. Cost was approx £700, but garaged on the outskirts of a Midlands town and is a third car. I know you plan to use a broker, but a quote from Admiral might give you confidence your broker is indeed finding the best option (or not)!).

TB993tt said: Am I being dumb, why should PPF increase your premium, I didn't even think to tell my insurers abut it ? You might want to read this https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... Sorted in the end, but I wouldn't want to go through that on a claim - tell your insurers about the PPF!

alscar said: I use Nowell & Richards. I hear A Plan can be decent. Perhaps Aston Lark ( now Howdens ) also worth a call ? As others have said 35% is probably around the average increase being largely reported but obviously when your premium is already pretty high any percentage hurts ! A Plan and Aston Lark are both now Howdens, both have rebranded recently after being acquired in 21 and 22.

gerlewis said: My situation is not like for like, but might be worth you exploring: We have a 320d insured with Esure. I then added a 991.1 using their 'multi-car' deal via their 'First Alternative' sub brand. It only added about £150 to the existing policy, and is now £336 per year for both cars. Might be worth a punt. Thank you, that sounds like a great deal, but I am not minded to buy another car.

G-996 said: Just as a price comparison, I’d recommend getting a quote direct from Admiral. When I insured my new 992S a few months ago, they were one of the few insurers willing to insure it. In contrast, everyone would insure the 996 that i owned previously. Cost was approx £700, but garaged on the outskirts of a Midlands town and is a third car. I know you plan to use a broker, but a quote from Admiral might give you confidence your broker is indeed finding the best option (or not)!). That's a good idea, thank you.

Assuming it's not already mandated based on the value of the car, a tracker could bring down the cost?

SV_WDC said: Assuming it's not already mandated based on the value of the car, a tracker could bring down the cost? Thanks, yes I have the Porsche Tracker fitted and I subscribe to it. It was mandated by my current insurance provider.

johnny senna said: SV_WDC said: Assuming it's not already mandated based on the value of the car, a tracker could bring down the cost? Thanks, yes I have the Porsche Tracker fitted and I subscribe to it. It was mandated by my current insurance provider. Try admiral, they are normally the cheapest and don’t require a tracker just read and understand the condition about participating in organised car events Your are paying for all those extras , you’ve got a drive any car policy but in reality how often do you drive your mates cars? it’s nice to have a similar car if you are without yours but would it hurt driving an normal car for a few weeks while your car being repaired. How many times have you actual used these extras you’re paying for ? Good luck finding a policy you’re happy with!

TB993tt said: Am I being dumb, why should PPF increase your premium, I didn't even think to tell my insurers abut it ? Because repairs will cost more, at a guess

Are you married? Adding my wife as a named driver reduced my policy a bit.

wong said: Are you married? Adding my wife as a named driver reduced my policy a bit. I'm not married luckily.

So after a lot of faffing about using the website, then chat function, then a good old fashioned phone call, Admiral have quoted £1,388. That does not include cover for the PPF but they have noted that the car has got full PPF and it does not then invalidate the car insurance. I forgot to ask what the excess was. I have asked them to save the quote for me. They were very clear that if the car has an accident they would not cover the cost of replacing the car's PPF. They said their position is the same for any modifications except to do with disabilities etc. I think if you have PPF installed by the factory then the policy would cover the PPF. My car's full PPF (which Porsche don't offer of course) was done at a local detailer. I'll ring some brokers next.

Your raise is in line with everyone else’s. Actually, it’s less than what many people are seeing in terms of percentages. It’s what’s happening to most of us. You can reduce by others means. Another car (you don’t have to use it,!!!!), another driver, such as wife of you have one.

mikef said: TB993tt said: Am I being dumb, why should PPF increase your premium, I didn't even think to tell my insurers abut it ? Because repairs will cost more, at a guess Only if you require the insurers to re-apply PPF, I've always assumed if I pranged and needed repair then it would be me paying for PPF.

TB993tt said: Only if you require the insurers to re-apply PPF, I've always assumed if I pranged and needed repair then it would be me paying for PPF. Says the man that's never had to remove the godforsaken stuff ...

OP, I had a car stolen off my drive last year, my broker didn't lift a finger, let alone a telephone receiver or a mouse. In my experience the days of brokers getting involved are long since gone, but that's based solely on my own experiences.

Slippydiff said: OP, I had a car stolen off my drive last year, my broker didn't lift a finger, let alone a telephone receiver or a mouse. In my experience the days of brokers getting involved are long since gone, but that's based solely on my own experiences. Thanks, duly noted!!

Slippydiff said: TB993tt said: Only if you require the insurers to re-apply PPF, I've always assumed if I pranged and needed repair then it would be me paying for PPF. Says the man that's never had to remove the godforsaken stuff ... This is true.....but has this got anything to do with insurance and telling them about it ? Do people declare to Admiral their PCCBs on their 992s (except Turbo S) ? I certainly don't so technically one would be in breach of Admiral's and presumably AXA's (the other PPF thread) requirements.....I think key is to use a more reasonable insurer there are plenty about.

johnny senna said: So after a lot of faffing about using the website, then chat function, then a good old fashioned phone call, Admiral have quoted £1,388. That does not include cover for the PPF but they have noted that the car has got full PPF and it does not then invalidate the car insurance. I forgot to ask what the excess was. I have asked them to save the quote for me. They were very clear that if the car has an accident they would not cover the cost of replacing the car's PPF. They said their position is the same for any modifications except to do with disabilities etc. I think if you have PPF installed by the factory then the policy would cover the PPF. My car's full PPF (which Porsche don't offer of course) was done at a local detailer. I'll ring some brokers next. When my wife's car was in for a light bump we asked Sytner's body shop manager where NFU came insofar as dealing with repairs. He said they were at the top. When asked who was bottom he replied "Admiral." It's not just what you pay, it's how good they are when it comes to a claim.

DJMC said: When my wife's car was in for a light bump we asked Sytner's body shop manager where NFU came insofar as dealing with repairs. He said they were at the top. When asked who was bottom he replied "Admiral." It's not just what you pay, it's how good they are when it comes to a claim. Thanks, I'll bear this one in mind!!

If you get any issues with your insurer or the other parties insurer, just warn them that if they continue to drag the issue out you’ll put it in the hands of an accident management company. Seems to get them along a bit.

DJMC said: When my wife's car was in for a light bump we asked Sytner's body shop manager where NFU came insofar as dealing with repairs. He said they were at the top. When asked who was bottom he replied "Admiral." It's not just what you pay, it's how good they are when it comes to a claim. NFU's prices for high end cars are as expensive as the rest now but i agree with the above they seem reasonable, not attempting to catch you out at any opportunity. True story I had a renewal for a G63 with them a couple of years ago and it had gone up a lot but I did a basic internet search and saw it was within ball park so renewed, a few monrhs later I got a letter from them and a cheque, all totally unprompted, saying they miscalculated it and they gave me best part of a grand back I liked that !

johnny senna said: AinsleyB said: Just Google for a quote and go direct, the broker is making money somewhere along the process of you buying insurance. Thanks, but I want a broker for if the worst happens and I need to claim, I want them to fight my corner. My excess is £1,500 which I thought was quite high anyway. Edited by johnny senna on Wednesday 20th December 12:18 What makes you think the broker will fight your corner? They probably won’t be bothered once you’ve paid the premium.

I have heard parking on your driveway increases the premium, it may be worth parking on the road across the end of your drive and getting a quote for 'parked in the street'

Curious, are 992s particularly hard to insure?

3xAAA said: Curious, are 992s particularly hard to insure? Can’t see why. Porsche in my experience are cheaper than other similar performance cars

TB993tt said: This is true.....but has this got anything to do with insurance and telling them about it ? Do people declare to Admiral their PCCBs on their 992s (except Turbo S) ? I certainly don't so technically one would be in breach of Admiral's and presumably AXA's (the other PPF thread) requirements.....I think key is to use a more reasonable insurer there are plenty about. I called my insurance after reading that thread and yes I need to declare it and my premium went up 20quid. So they would have to right to void your policy in the even if a claim. It doesn’t make what common sense says and everything to do with the wording you agreed to when taking the policy. It’s not worth the risk no declaring it!

bosshog said: I called my insurance after reading that thread and yes I need to declare it and my premium went up 20quid. So they would have to right to void your policy in the even if a claim. It doesn’t make what common sense says and everything to do with the wording you agreed to when taking the policy. It’s not worth the risk no declaring it! I’ve learnt something new also. Never in a million years would I have thought you would have to declare PPF.

85Carrera said: What makes you think the broker will fight your corner? They probably won’t be bothered once you’ve paid the premium. This is simply based on my own experience. I had a claim many years ago and the broker was fantastic and really helped settle the claim in a way I wanted. Better than speaking to a call centre and dealing with it yourself I suspect.

So it must only be me that does a comparison and buys the cheapest quote from a company I've heard of? In my mind all insurance companies are the same, if they can get out of paying they will. I'm also prepared to do any leg work arising from a claim, but I've got the time and experience whereas others may not. My daughter is with Admiral and her renewal has just come in - around 20% higher than last year even with another year of NCB added! Yet what is more bizarre is doing the usual comparison site quotes nobody can get anywhere near the renewal price - cheapest is £250 more. So Admiral it is. I have heard that you can sometimes get the insurance down by taking out a large excess and then separately insuring the excess.

johnny senna said: 85Carrera said: What makes you think the broker will fight your corner? They probably won’t be bothered once you’ve paid the premium. This is simply based on my own experience. I had a claim many years ago and the broker was fantastic and really helped settle the claim in a way I wanted. Better than speaking to a call centre and dealing with it yourself I suspect. In fairness, I had a similar experience back in 2001 when I had a rare Impreza 22b stolen off the drive. But the car was “tacked on” to my then trade policy, and the broker involved was handling the business of at least 50-75 other franchisees operating the same franchise, so he had a lot of clout with the insurance company he’d placed the policies with. He did indeed “fight my corner” and I’ve no doubt the insurance company would have wriggled out of settling the £35k claim (and in fairness, they would have had every right to) had he not fought tooth and nail on my behalf. However when my BMW was stolen last year, I called my broker, and he gave me the telephone number of the claims department of my insurer and nothing more. As for the suggestion of using the cheapest quote. Don’t. I found myself without a loan car (my insurer wouldn’t even consider paying out for 28 days “as the car may be recovered”) Fat chance of that, for it to be recovered the police would need to be doing their job properly and using their resources properly, instead I got a letter off them (less than two weeks after the car’s theft) which stated with “Dear victim” and went on to say that the case was now closed. No doubt closing the case ensures it and hundreds of thousands of other thefts every year, don’t appear as “unsolved” in the BS crime statistics published by the government every year... Left without a car, I had to pay to rent something for a month, but additionally the contents insurance only covered me up £300. I had two pairs of prescription glasses in the car, one a pair of irreplaceable Ray Bans, the other a spare pair of driving glasses, numerous jackets (one expensive), fleeces, gilet, scarves etc. By the time I’d paid the excess, I estimate I was out of pocket to the tune of over £1500 having paid a months car rental, and not fully compensated for the items inside the car. Getting an acceptable settlement figure took a further two weeks, numerous time wasting phone calls and emails to the insurer and their claim handling company. All in all a soul destroying and stressful experience that left me with little faith in the police or the insurance industry.

Slippydiff said: In fairness, I had a similar experience back in 2001 when I had a rare Impreza 22b stolen off the drive. But the car was “tacked on” to my then trade policy, and the broker involved was handling the business of at least 50-75 other franchisees operating the same franchise, so he had a lot of clout with the insurance company he’d placed the policies with. He did indeed “fight my corner” and I’ve no doubt the insurance company would have wriggled out of settling the £35k claim (and in fairness, they would have had every right to) had he not fought tooth and nail on my behalf. However when my BMW was stolen last year, I called my broker, and he gave me the telephone number of the claims department of my insurer and nothing more. As for the suggestion of using the cheapest quote. Don’t. I found myself without a loan car (my insurer wouldn’t even consider paying out for 28 days “as the car may be recovered”) Fat chance of that, for it to be recovered the police would need to be doing their job properly and using their resources properly, instead I got a letter off them (less than two weeks after the car’s theft) which stated with “Dear victim” and went on to say that the case was now closed. No doubt closing the case ensures it and hundreds of thousands of other thefts every year, don’t appear as “unsolved” in the BS crime statistics published by the government every year... Left without a car, I had to pay to rent something for a month, but additionally the contents insurance only covered me up £300. I had two pairs of prescription glasses in the car, one a pair of irreplaceable Ray Bans, the other a spare pair of driving glasses, numerous jackets (one expensive), fleeces, gilet, scarves etc. By the time I’d paid the excess, I estimate I was out of pocket to the tune of over £1500 having paid a months car rental, and not fully compensated for the items inside the car. Getting an acceptable settlement figure took a further two weeks, numerous time wasting phone calls and emails to the insurer and their claim handling company. All in all a soul destroying and stressful experience that left me with little faith in the police or the insurance industry. Thank you, that is very helpful. Lots for me to consider there. If you are happy to share the name of the broker with me by PM / email, please could you do that?

TB993tt said: This is true.....but has this got anything to do with insurance and telling them about it ? Do people declare to Admiral their PCCBs on their 992s (except Turbo S) ? I certainly don't so technically one would be in breach of Admiral's and presumably AXA's (the other PPF thread) requirements.....I think key is to use a more reasonable insurer there are plenty about. so do members declare all options on their cars? as that could amount to a very long call when it comes to Porsches as i though it was aftermarket items that needed declaring. do we need to declare PTS? etc..

Admiral you need to declare every option that is not standard other companies state if they are factory fitted you don’t need to inform them. Its a minefield. I always list everything on a phone call and note the time and person’s name as they record all calls so they can’t say I did not informed them if I ever need to claim !

ClubsportStr said: Admiral you need to declare every option that is not standard other companies state if they are factory fitted you don’t need to inform them. Its a minefield. I always list everything on a phone call and note the time and person’s name as they record all calls so they can’t say I did not informed them if I ever need to claim ! I'd put all of that in an email to the insurance company I think. Easier to share an email at a later date rather than relying on recorded phone calls. I thought you only had to declare non-factory mods such as PPF (as in my case). Thanks for the heads up regarding Admiral on this point.

ClubsportStr said: Admiral you need to declare every option that is not standard other companies state if they are factory fitted you don’t need to inform them. Its a minefield. I always list everything on a phone call and note the time and person’s name as they record all calls so they can’t say I did not informed them if I ever need to claim ! The problem is the people at the other end of the phone for the likes of Admiral know little about cars so they will box tick when you tell them your options this is problematic with things like PCCB, Carbon roof, clubsport option etc etc they simply won't have the relevant boxes listed and there is no real facility to email them, with the options, and get confirmation they acknowledge said email and options (in my experience) this is why you need to use a company/broker used to dealing with these kind of cars IMO. I once tried properly listing all mods on my 7GT2 to Adrian Flux and the guy at the other end of the phone was a "car guy" but we ran out of steam at something as simple as different camshafts, he wanted to list GT3 intake manifold as "air intake" turbo intake pipes nah, lightweight flywheel lol, rods and pistons WTF ! I tried emailing a sheet with the mods but it kind of stalled as they didn't realy know what to do with it.

johnny senna said: Thank you, that is very helpful. Lots for me to consider there. If you are happy to share the name of the broker with me by PM / email, please could you do that? PM sent

TB993tt said: The problem is the people at the other end of the phone for the likes of Admiral know little about cars so they will box tick when you tell them your options this is problematic with things like PCCB, Carbon roof, clubsport option etc etc they simply won't have the relevant boxes listed and there is no real facility to email them, with the options, and get confirmation they acknowledge said email and options (in my experience) this is why you need to use a company/broker used to dealing with these kind of cars IMO. I once tried properly listing all mods on my 7GT2 to Adrian Flux and the guy at the other end of the phone was a "car guy" but we ran out of steam at something as simple as different camshafts, he wanted to list GT3 intake manifold as "air intake" turbo intake pipes nah, lightweight flywheel lol, rods and pistons WTF ! I tried emailing a sheet with the mods but it kind of stalled as they didn't realyl know what to do with it. From my experience they want to know whether or not it's modified. Period. The scope of the modifications isn't a concern (though capacity increases make them twitchy) it is merely whether the car is modified or not, and that in turn dictates who will and won't provide cover for the vehicle.

TB993tt said: ClubsportStr said: Admiral you need to declare every option that is not standard other companies state if they are factory fitted you don’t need to inform them. Its a minefield. I always list everything on a phone call and note the time and person’s name as they record all calls so they can’t say I did not informed them if I ever need to claim ! The problem is the people at the other end of the phone for the likes of Admiral know little about cars so they will box tick when you tell them your options this is problematic with things like PCCB, Carbon roof, clubsport option etc etc they simply won't have the relevant boxes listed and there is no real facility to email them, with the options, and get confirmation they acknowledge said email and options (in my experience) this is why you need to use a company/broker used to dealing with these kind of cars IMO. I once tried properly listing all mods on my 7GT2 to Adrian Flux and the guy at the other end of the phone was a "car guy" but we ran out of steam at something as simple as different camshafts, he wanted to list GT3 intake manifold as "air intake" turbo intake pipes nah, lightweight flywheel lol, rods and pistons WTF ! I tried emailing a sheet with the mods but it kind of stalled as they didn't realy know what to do with it. Toby, You should maybe try Classic Line next year. My mods all individually 100% covered. I insured Minty and Yellow Peril (9m RS) for well over six figs (basically the cost of the mods over the years plus a good base 997 turbo/993 C2). Think it was a smidge less than £1000 for 7500 miles per year. 9e and 911 Virgin both provided a letter re valuations and I had to send copies of all the mod invoices and 5 pics of each 911. Very smooth process. [email removed] OP try A Manning (UK). Classic Line good for limited mileage policies not sure they’d stretch to 12,000 miles pa which is a shame as they’re very good.

IMI A said: Toby, You should maybe try Classic Line next year. My mods all individually 100% covered. I insured Minty and Yellow Peril (9m RS) for well over six figs (basically the cost of the mods over the years plus a good base 997 turbo/993 C2). Think it was a smidge less than £1000 for 7500 miles per year. 9e and 911 Virgin both provided a letter re valuations and I had to send copies of all the mod invoices and 5 pics of each 911. Very smooth process. [email removed] OP try A Manning (UK). Classic Line good for limited mileage policies not sure they’d stretch to 12,000 miles pa which is a shame as they’re very good. Thanks for that IM, I used Classic Line for many years and one year randomly they put on a massive increase and became very uncompetitive and wouldn't budge despite me having a few cars with them so I ditched them, I will def give them a shout come renewal. I'm dreading this year I can see it's going to be expensive

Yes I switched that year to A Manning UK they did that to me too. Normal service resumed the year after

Slippydiff said: From my experience they want to know whether or not it's modified. Period. The scope of the modifications isn't a concern (though capacity increases make them twitchy) it is merely whether the car is modified or not, and that in turn dictates who will and won't provide cover for the vehicle. In my experience, it's much more complex than this as others have said. One example I had a Caterham crossflow rebuilt from 1600 to 1700 and tried that on my insurer (in this case the dreaded Admiral). I said that the capacity had been increased to 1700 and they were stumped. We went around the houses for ages and ages them not understanding anything. I finally described that the block had been machined for larger diameter pistons to get the higher capacity. Same stroke, larger bore. That was a magic word. He said has it been "bored" I said yes the bore has been increased from a to b. Oh no, we don't insured "bored out" cars. Right I said, so if I had got to the larger capacity from a longer stroke would that have been ok? "What? he said as I hung up By the time I actually needed to get it back on the road, DVLA had managed to update the V5 to 1700 so there was no mod to declare, the insurer knew it was 1700!

BertBert said: In my experience, it's much more complex than this as others have said. One example I had a Caterham crossflow rebuilt from 1600 to 1700 and tried that on my insurer (in this case the dreaded Admiral). I said that the capacity had been increased to 1700 and they were stumped. We went around the houses for ages and ages them not understanding anything. I finally described that the block had been machined for larger diameter pistons to get the higher capacity. Same stroke, larger bore. That was a magic word. He said has it been "bored" I said yes the bore has been increased from a to b. Oh no, we don't insured "bored out" cars. Right I said, so if I had got to the larger capacity from a longer stroke would that have been ok? "What? he said as I hung up ! That's hilarious ! I had exact same with my Mezger 3.6 becoming a 3.9 but of course he couldn't use bored out because as I tried to explain they haven't been bored they are new parts which are made that way.... I just declare a few pertinent engine mods like "increased power" and run the risk, have done for about 30 years but as it seems this thread had concluded not a game you want to play with the likes of Admiral.

bosshog said: TB993tt said: This is true.....but has this got anything to do with insurance and telling them about it ? Do people declare to Admiral their PCCBs on their 992s (except Turbo S) ? I certainly don't so technically one would be in breach of Admiral's and presumably AXA's (the other PPF thread) requirements.....I think key is to use a more reasonable insurer there are plenty about. I called my insurance after reading that thread and yes I need to declare it and my premium went up 20quid. So they would have to right to void your policy in the even if a claim. It doesn’t make what common sense says and everything to do with the wording you agreed to when taking the policy. It’s not worth the risk no declaring it! They can't void the policy - new insurance rule brought in. They could charge the extra £20 they would have charged for innocent non disclosure.

IMI A said: OP try A Manning (UK). Classic Line good for limited mileage policies not sure they’d stretch to 12,000 miles pa which is a shame as they’re very good. Thank you, I'll do that. And thanks, everyone.

Slippydiff said: PM sent Thanks.

BertBert said: Slippydiff said: From my experience they want to know whether or not it's modified. Period. The scope of the modifications isn't a concern (though capacity increases make them twitchy) it is merely whether the car is modified or not, and that in turn dictates who will and won't provide cover for the vehicle. In my experience, it's much more complex than this as others have said. One example I had a Caterham crossflow rebuilt from 1600 to 1700 and tried that on my insurer (in this case the dreaded Admiral). I said that the capacity had been increased to 1700 and they were stumped. We went around the houses for ages and ages them not understanding anything. I finally described that the block had been machined for larger diameter pistons to get the higher capacity. Same stroke, larger bore. That was a magic word. He said has it been "bored" I said yes the bore has been increased from a to b. Oh no, we don't insured "bored out" cars. Right I said, so if I had got to the larger capacity from a longer stroke would that have been ok? "What? he said as I hung up By the time I actually needed to get it back on the road, DVLA had managed to update the V5 to 1700 so there was no mod to declare, the insurer knew it was 1700! On the basis of that conversation I’d suggest it is as simple as I initially suggested Try telling them the car has uprated cams with higher lift, longer duration and more overlap, allied to roller rockers, larger inlet valves and de-shrouded exhaust ports and high compression pistons, and I suspect their eyes would glaze over and they’d issue cover for no other reason than to get you off the phone Tell them you ditched the wheezy 1600 crossflow and replaced it with a slightly less wheezy 2000 Pinto, and they’d have a “Connery” before refusing cover... Edited by Slippydiff on Thursday 21st December 15:26

On my DB11 V12 I paid about £650 last year. No changes to my situation and I’ve just received a confused renewal best price of nearly £2400. It’s about time the hover stepped in to deal with this situation, be it with the CPS, police, law, or the actual insurance companies themselves. Basically the insurance companies have become legalised racketeers.

W12GT said: It’s about time the hover stepped in to deal with this situation, be it with the CPS, police, law, or the actual insurance companies themselves. Basically the insurance companies have become legalised racketeers. That would only be true if they were actually making large profits, but car insurance is actually a low margin or loss-making business. Last year (2022) the industry paid out £110 for every £100 collected in premiums and similar losses are predicted for 2023 as well. Hence why the need to increase premiums. It is a very competitive business, with a large selection of business written through price comparison websites. If the price increases were for pure profit then it would be very easy for any one of the hundreds of insurers to be slightly less greedy, price lower and scoop up market share. They don't because it isn't. The price increases are driven by inflation and the costs, delays and difficulties of repairing cars that are ever more complex, have unavailable parts or are EVs etc. Also the thefts of specific models will cause some insurers to choose to price themselves out of that car or sector. https://www.ey.com/en_uk/news/2023/06/ey-uk-motor-...

I believe one of the reasons that premiums have gone up so much is parts availability and thus lengthy repair times. It was taking months for parts to come through last year (and still is in some cases) ….with people driving round in courtesy cars all that time quite often the cost of the courtesy car was more than the repair.

Cheib said: I believe one of the reasons that premiums have gone up so much is parts availability and thus lengthy repair times. It was taking months for parts to come through last year (and still is in some cases) ….with people driving round in courtesy cars all that time quite often the cost of the courtesy car was more than the repair. I spent an afternoon at my local Porsche approved repair centre a couple of weeks ago, they had a lot of Teslas in for repair. Being aluminium, all the panels are bonded/riveted, even the slightest rear end impact requires panel replacement as the aluminium panels can't be "pulled" in the traditional manner steel can. Numerous examples were completely stripped aft of the front seats to enable rear 1/4 panel replacement, all that takes time and costs to repair them are suitably large. Someone has to pay for that, and ultimately it's reflected in everyone's premiums. Quite a few Taycans in there being repaired to, and the suggestion was that the recent drop in values over the last quarter of '23 will see them quickly become uneconomic to repair. Noteworthy too was the fact the rear suspension subframe front mounts are perilously close to the battery pack, there were two cars which had seen rear end damage and had only just escaped damage to the battery pack. Had they been damaged, they were of the opinion the insurance companies would have written them off ... Cars may be safer than ever in the event of an accident, but in the process they've become ever more difficult and expensive to repair, again that will be reflected in increased premiums. Add in the supply chain issues you've alluded to, and the unchecked theft of vehicles, and it would seem premiums aren't going to be reduced anytime soon.

Just to add i got a quote with Admiral recently fully comp on a new 992 £770 for limited to 7000miles a year. I am born before the 80's

My admiral multi quote doubled last year. After some haggling it came down by about £400. The lad on the other end of the phone sounded genuinely embarrassed. As an aside I don't buy the rental car cost nonsense. The additional cost on your premium is minimal. If it made that much of a difference we could all just ask them not to bother and save ourselves a small fortune. But that is not the case. I'm not looking forward to next May.