Milltek exhaust / header and EVO intake

I noticed that almost all posts on exhaust sytems and ECU upgrades had the ECU modified and then the exhaust done. I recently had a Milltek full exhaust (headers & cat back) and EVO intake done at ICS Performance in Stamford, CT ( www.icsperformance.com) . I was looking for an increase in performance but did not want a major increase in sound level during routine driving. The Milltek system, if anything, seems quieter during routine daily driving (lower pitch (lower hz)) than stock, but has an agressive sound when the rpm are above 4,500. The pre-exhaust dyno (dynojet) showed 261/229 hp and torque respectively. This works out to about an 11.5% loss at the rear wheels compared to the reported stock 295 hp at the flywheel. After the full exhaust and intack the dyno showed 284 / 244 or a jump of 23 hp and 15 ft.lbs. This was right in the upper range that most people were reporting 20-25 with the better exhausts (and which I was skeptical about). (SEE IMAGE) The Milltek shows excellent workmanship and the headers/cat back blend well with the car (SEE IMAGE FROM BELOW). There is a respectable increase in performance and the sound is agressive when you want it to be but very liveable day in and day out. After the install and testing, we then did a GIAC ECU upgrade and did not notice any change in the dyno numbers. This was after multiple runs, fans blowing into the intacke, etc. After a number of days and no change, the original programming was returned. The change of 23 hp / 15 ft lbs seems as good as most are getting with the ECU/exhaust/intake. Why we did not get any change with the ECU modication is not known, except that ECU modes in a normally aspirated car running stock premium fuels is usually very limited. For any one looking for a reasonable increase in prerformance without any bothersome drone during normal driving the Milltek seems like a excellent choice.

Congrats on the new Milltek system. Those results are right in the range of what other members have seen from their systems I believe. Good numbers. After much deliberation I am going to pair the Milltek headers with the AWE Catback:cheers: Two great products that have produced excellent returns when combined, and the AWE sound is more to my liking over the Milltek sound...just a little louder and more aggressive. Your report on the GIAC flash was interesting, and reconfirms my decision not to get the engine flashed due to poor results from the NA motor.

Thanks for the post MWB! This is exactly what I'll be ordering next month, and in Stamford, CT as well, but at Performance. Nice to get a heads up on what to expect.

I have an EVO intake and Miltek headres ans catback. In K-man S' article he gains maybe 4 to 5hp at high RPM. My thought has been I like some of the gain to be at the lower range and $1,000 for 1 to 1.5% gain did not impress me. I have never gone ahead with the chip flash, because I thought I would gain very little. You just confirmed that suspicion, and validated my decision.

I also just had the Milltek installed and agree that it has made a major difference. It seems to me to be quieter in the lower ranges as well, but above 4000 RPMs it get's very throaty and sounds awesome. Even my wife likes it! :dance:

By the way, I paired the Milltek with the GIAC Chip and the EVO V-Flow. It is an awesome combination. :banana:

Mike thanks for the informative and objective post.... two things I would like to add are: 1) comparing peak HP gains for a chipped NA vs chipped FI application is apples and oranges. You cannot conclude that because a chip in a turbo app makes 40hp and one in a NA app makes 10 peak hp that the later is not worth it. It is two completely different applications that do entirely different things. You have to compare one chip on a NA vs another, or no chip vs chip...which I guess was the final point made in the orignal post, but was glossed over by some of the replies. 2) peak HP is only one small part of the equasion to consider. Much more important is total area under the curve. Maybe the GIAC after exhaust didn't show significant peak gains, but did it show any gains in more usable regions of the graph. I'd take a loss in peak hp for a gain in midrange in most street cars... do you have both graphs for us to look at. One with just the boltons and one wth boltons abd chip?? dw

I concur with DaveW that the GIAC program (it isn't a chip it is a new program for your existing chip) may only produce nominal peak gains 5-7hp in my instance, but that it does produce more gains in torque and hp under the curve for a broader range of power. Unless you compare the entire graphs it is hard to understand the differences. I think CaymanW posted some nice comparison graphs awhile back. I'm not saying should do the chip flash, just stating that looking at peak hp gains only is selling it a bit short...

I will be upgrading to a fabspeed header (no cats) + tubi catback + revo tecknic stage 2 remap + EVOM + de-snork in next 10 days. I will of course share my results with you. I considered GIAC but it sounded like a waste of money based on the reward v outlay. Revo are looking at around 25bhp for the remap alone. Theoretically I hope to be +50 bhp on OEM. Will keep you posted...

To K Man S and Dave W To K Man S and Dave W I did not keep the chip v. unchip graphs but I was not looking at just peak HP and actually had little interest in just peak numbers (you can gain peak HP just by increasing the rev limiter, which is pretty useless). I posted the before and after dynos becuase the Milltek / Evo shows impressive gains in the useful RPM range. When all the intake and exhaust was done, the graphs with and without the GIAC programming were almost superimposed over the entire RPM range. I just thought that it was curious. I realize this is not what most are reporting. I would have been happy with no change in peak numbers if the overall curves put more usable power in the lower range. That did not occur. The other point I was tyring to make was that the gains with the full Milltek system were very impressive and I, for one, appreciate the more restrained sound during routine use and the agressive exhaust note when pused.

Michael, Thanks for clarifying and what you are seeing is that the Milltek and other mods free'd up most of the HP that would have been received via a flash alone so the flash on top would have little effect in your situation. This was true of the default GIAC flash on my car after Milltek+EVO install until I had the the GIAC flashed tweaked for my car specifically and netted out another 5-7hp. Those who do just say the EVO intake and GIAC will see healthy gains across the power band and if they then put on an exhaust will see more gains but less than they would have seen from the exhaust had they just done that first and alone with no other mods. I hope that makes sense, we really are saying the same thing...

From the Revo flash alone!? That sounds high for a NA motor? Let us know the results when you finally have them.

Hi Michael, I have exactly the same setup and also considered that the ECU enhancement(?) to be minimal and comparatively expensive for the result as well. Considering the end task is a few minutes of reflashing time, I figure something like $200 is way more realistic, then they may sell 5 or more times as many. Some "opportunistic" selling going on here I suspect in this ECU aftermarket business.

I don't know what's involved in making these programs, but it's possible that the high prices are due to the need to cover up-front investment costs like R&D.

It was a pleasure to work on Michael's beautiful Cayman S . Being a dealer for all the above mentioned lines of equipment, we use the Milltek systems when a client wants to be on the softer side of sound. The car really wakes up with the better breathing from the headers/exhaust and intake and we expected to see some gains from the software which didn't happen. We went back and forth w/GIAC and believe this was an isolated case of the ecu/vehicle not responding to the software. There was no lack of effort on this portion of the build and all parties did what they could to make it right but sometimes it just doesn't work out, we gave it a hell of a try.....Anyway, when APR gets the Cayman SW going, we will give that a shot. All in all, the mods done worked well together and if anyone has any questions, feel free to contact me directly. Brian Rosenberg ICS Performance

the majority of the R&D is in reverse engineering the OE program, breaking the encryption codes, and locating the maps and other controls (multiple rev limits, throttle maps etc...) in the binary code. Then writing all new software to circumvent all this without triggering factory scan codes. Its no easy task and can takes months of work. Most developers are still figuring out cartaian parts of the 997TT code. Its a nightmare. Nobody is getting rich off the markup, believe me. dw

No easy task indeed... and every so often they change ECU part numbers and move certain tables around etc... so there are several version of files for the same year car. On the 997TT Garret is actually now at the "switching" stage for 91,100 etc... Right now we have single programs though. That particular program was the most complex of all. The EGT sensors would shut things down in a real hurry...

Brian, I have bookmarked your web site - once spring comes will give you guys a call to talk about mods to my CS. (live just over the RI border in MA). Graham March 06 Black/Black

Looks like hapiness in general with the Milltek system. We have a louder version up our sleeve this Spring for those that want it. -Pete, Stratmosphere. [phone removed]

Pete, How about an 'Adaptive' system? One that can be electrically changed from normal to loud? Sort of like the Porsche Sport Exhaust, but with the benefit of more horsepower. I think that would be a winner and if priced reasonably I would be very interested.

Whats up with all that huge numbers?? my car dyno result shows only 228.9 hp i have miltek catback, Vvlow intake, desnork, custom ecu remap. is that because its a triptonic car?? so i lost alot of power??

Statix, As I've said before your dyno numbers by themselves mean nothing. I suspect the dyno you ran on is very inaccurate and in need of calibration, but since you didn't do before and after runs with your mods there is no way to tell what effect they had on your car. I would hope that with the Milltek catback, V-flow and ECU tuning that you'd gain 20hp at the rear wheels making your numbers somewhere around 285'ish on a Mustang or DynoJet dyno. I could take a magical dyno and produce charts that show your car puts out 1000 horsepower, but is my magical dyno accurate? No, probably not, but if that is the only number you have in a vacuum then it doesn't mean much. In my opinion you wasted your money if you just got this one dyno run. At a minimum you should have had before and after runs with respect to your mods on this dyno to find out what the delta is, or you should go put your car on some other dyno where other Cayman owners have taken their cars to see how it compares. Right now you are in a vacuum and your numbers have no meaning.

I find it very misleading to see such a broad range of dyno-results. I fully appreciate that there is a good reason for this - however, its less than helpful especially when it appears at face value that you have low results. Having studied all the articles and spoken to the engine tuning companies it appears that the total bhp gain to be expected for re-map/exhaust/air-filter and de-snork is circa 25(pure)bhp up on stock. It does indeed appear that the re-map in combination with the aforementioned tweaks has more of a tendency to alter the torque characteristics as opposed to 'pure' bhp gain. My revo re-map delivers thumping torque in the mid-range which according to a local independent porsche race specialist considered almost 'abnormal' compared to other re-maps they had tested. However, the dyno figure is merely 25bhp up on stock. It sure as hell feels quicker and a day on track last weekend proved this point as the cayman out-gunned standard C2 and matched C2S along with other serious machinery (e.g M3 CSL). It would be very interesting to have a dyno day where we all turn up - and at the same venue - blast away an afternoon to compare figures vs various modded cars. In fact I might just go ahead and arrange this asap here in the UK.......

Where can I get the Milltek exhaust here in Texas? I plan on doing my own install... thanks.