price check 996 993

I have a choice between a 95 993 tip with 50,000 miles and a 99 996 stick with 40,000 miles. Both with little options both clean but the 95 is very clean. how much more is the 996 worth.

Although I cant really suggest how much one is worth over the other, I will say to drive both, back to back if possible. Then drive them back to back again and you should have an idea to which car strikes-your-fancy Condition and history play a huge role IMHO.. Biggest difference between the two is trans type's...

Talk about apples and oranges. Tip. vs Stick- 993 vs 996. Only you can make a decision like this for yourself, regardless of the price question. Two completely different rides. As to price difference, it should be fairly easy to determine the value of the 996. The '95 tip is more of a challenge. You might ask on the 993 board, I personally haven't a good feel for the tip. market, though I'm told those that want a tip will pay a premium to find one.

The Tip in the 993 is a surprisingly fun drive. The 996 you're mentioning has plusses and minuses. Today, in early '04, the 996 might be worth a penny more. But not much. And by the end of '04 or some time in '05, the 993 will likely be ahead or at least have lost less in depreciation than the '99 996. If you're comparing them as a driver, then drive both and go with the car that rewards you as a driver. If you're thinking of track days, go with a manual/sitck transmission. If you commute and you've driven the 993 Tiptronic, then choose it. In any case, for both cars, get an independent pre-purchase inspection. Both cars can be very cheap to run, but again, both cars can be horribly expensive to own if they're hiding dark secrets. All that said, I'd go look for a '95 C2 6spd and forget the 996. If you want to really set up a track car and maybe you don't have a 911 background, the 996 could be the better starting point. Cheers,

IMHO? The 996 is worth about $35k-$37k right now, at a fair private party SELLING price (more if purchased from a dealer, a few thousand less at wholesale auction). The 993 coupe with tip? Very clean in a desirable color, probably $25-27k. Will take longer to sell, as the seller will need to find someone looking for a tiptronic. Not much price difference between tip and stick, just time needed to make the sale. 964 coupe prices all begin with a $2, except for RSAs and those that begin with a $1. Figure to add $5k-$8 for a '95 993, compared to a 92-93 964. As for depreciation? There is a bottom to the market. If good SCs are going for $10-$13k, then 3.2 Carreras are not going to be had for less than $15k-$19k, and 964s then will be $20k-$30k, and 993s will be $23k-$35k (excluding widebodied and turbos etc.). And that in turn means that it'd be tough for early 996s to fall much below $35k. Remember, our own John Dunkle bought a 993 Carrera 4 with 106k miles, needed some minor work, for $16k. Yes, $16k. Just my $.02. vty, --Dennis

some say that a early 996 will even out with a early 993 in price even fall below how realistic is this.

Not very realistic, IMHO. A beat-up, higher mileage early '99 996 may already be cheaper than a mint, low mileage '97 993C2. But all other things being equal (mileage, condition, location, options, color), the 996 will always be worth more. For example, when the 964 came out, a whole bunch of 911 traditionalists cried foul and claimed that the 3.2 was the ultimate evolution of the 911 tradition. And today, a nice 89 3,2 is worth more than a used-up 89 964C4. But compare a nice '90 C2 with a nice 85 3.2, or a nice '94 with a nice '89, and the 964 is worth more. vty, --Dennis

Dennis, You and I appear to agree on fewer and fewer points pertaining to Porsche and the 911. What are you thinking? What is there to suggest that a mass produced and poorly received 996 will "always be worth more" than a 993 of equivalent condition and history? This is preposterous! In a 2004 market, the '02 updated 3.6 996 is ahead of even the nice '98 993's but the trend curves on the two vintages suggest that is just a matter of time. I suppose one could build spreadsheets and generate depreciation curves and find various likely scenarios like a technical day trader trying to predict the unpredictable. At the end of the day, will history record the 993 as the last of the 911; I think so. And will history record the 996 as another Porsche counting time until they moved on to the next epoc; again, I think so. Sadly, the 997 is little more than another appropriately timed cosmetic lift (as was the '02 change) but we're all waiting for the 998. Let's hope it's worth our loyalty.

Preposterous? Perhaps you're arguing from emotion, loving your 993 as much as you do. While I truly enjoy driving my wife's 996, especially at the track, I'm fairly pragmatic about values. The prices I cited in my prior post are real-world prices from actual transactions and wholesale auction results. Where are you getting your numbers from? It's not enough to just look at "asking" prices in the back of magazines. Tell me, do you think Bruce Anderson is "preposterous"? In the most recent 993 price guide (Excellence #126), he wrote: "Prices for late-model 911s, especially 1995-98 993s, have dropped yet again since last year, when they saw their first major decrease. So 993s are finally falling into 'normal' depreciation after enjoying years of very high resale values. The coupes have lot a little ground, but the final air-cooled open cars seem to be falling even faster - and these are great, fun drivers! The oft-overlooked 964s continue along their depreciation curve, so some even better values can be had here." His opinion alone isn't enough for you? Let's look at the numbers. According to Bruce's database, a 1995 993 is worth between $24,210 and $36,850 today. Whereas a 1999 996 is worth between $34,295 and $52,200. Looking back to 2002, the 993 was $26,863-$40,888 and the 996 was $38,621 and $58,784. In 2001, the 993 was $35,361-$47,338, and the 996 was $45084-$68,621 In all three years, the 996 has been worth more than the 993. Wanna do some extrapolation? Between 2001 and now, the 993 has lost 31.5%-29.7%. In contrast, the 996 has lost 23.93%-23.92%. So the "trend curve" you want to cite actually FAVORS THE 996 (though, it must be said, that extrapolating forward is a very, very tricky thing to do). I'll say it again. Only in a handful of instances in the luxury car market does an all-new model ever depreciate to a point where it costs less than a comparable older model. This ain't one of them. Cheers! Kindly note that this is not a debate about which is a better car, or which is a better 911, or how many angels can dance atop a pin. I'm merely answering the question put to me - which car is likely to be worth more later? From the evidence, I'd have to conclude it's the 996. vty, --Dennis

If you want to look at convenient time frames, statistics could be manipulated to suggest either vintage will hold higher resale percentages. While Bruce Anderson is, let's say "famous" for market commentary and often gives debatably low numbers, I read his 993 comments and thought he was quite right. I think it's obvious the 993 has, just in the last year or so, finally started to show weakness. In sharp contrast, the 996 has been weak almost from day one and will soon fall into "old model" status with the 997 and, I expect, will vanish in history as the 998 arrives. I'd be interested to see a comparison of "all new" models and the models they replaced in terms of resale value over six or eight years.

While you guys argue about the rate of depreciation between 993 and 996, you agree that virtually all go down in value over time. My usual advice is: Mass produced Pcars are for driving fun, not investment. Pick the one you want to be in and can afford to pay for, not the one that you think will save you $ depreciation over the long haul.

It is possible the 964s and 993s will look very dated by the time the 998 comes out. This assumes the 911 continues to evolve. Most people I work with or know who are in the Porsche market prefer the newer body style. They are probably not considered an enthusiast like those on this board so this board may not be an accurate reflection of those in the position/market for newer Porsches. They are not really into the old style and care less about air cooled v. water cooled.

A nice 1998 C2S widebody is still worth well over $60K....I would suggest that would make a favorable comparison against almost any car.

I have test driven both a tip and a 6 sp manual. I would never personally own a tip at any price!!! So, this is a no brainer,, get the 6 sp 996. A real oxymoron to me is an "automatic Porsche" ,,, just goes against the grain.

Hurley Haywood prefers the Tiptronic Turbo on the track...he made this point at the Porsche Driving Experience.

The latest tip is meant to be very good (I haven't been in any aside from an early 993 example and it was easy to keep up with the pack and obviously works well as a daily driver) but Porsche has already changed their tune (again) on shift-o-matics. Conventional automatics (with a torque-converter) can't spin at the rpm required to make horsepower in forthcoming engines (8000rpm) and while they've previously said the Audi/VW DSG (a robotic gearbox with twin clutches) was too heavy, I think that pertained to earlier examples and in racing conditions. I hope to see more "incremental" stuff from Porsche in the 997 including the Porsche version of DSG. If you go drive it in an Audi TT, I think you'll agree it's come a long way. Again, I'm a bit old-school and enjoy controlling a conventional manual box, but I could well be pursuaded to have a daily driver with DSG even if only for the novelty of pretending to be Schumi ... trail-braking downshifts ...

<grin> I prefer the fun of rowing the gears myself...and I can certainly understand how some would choose to spend their money on a tip. The SMG tranny in the BMW is kind of cool - give it a few more years and we will see that in many cars.

A friend recently drove a Ferrari 360 F1 (paddle-shift) at Thunderhill and didn't like it much. I've driven that car (sedately) on the street and loved the feel of the car but couldn't see myself paying close to $200K for something that hasn't had the bugs worked out. I should clarify I haven't driven the Audi TT with DSG, but I've heard two reports that it makes the car a lot more fun than the conventional manual. I think a play in the Audi is on my calendar.

Just a note from my observations at retail: I have been shopping around with two different buddies who have been searching for cars. Both have been flip flopping between air cooled or water cooled. My kitchen research with dealers: Most '99- '02 996's have been selling at or below the price of comparable '97 and '98 "s" models. This is perhaps just a snapshot of current conditions due to lease cycles winding down combined with the demand for air cooled cars. I can only recommend to them, like others here, to drive both, although I we have been using my car for test drives since almost all 993's we've called on to check out are usually sold by the time we get to the dealer.