Esso to stop Ethanol Free Superunleaded - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Some of you who run older cars ( or motorcycles), may already be aware of the wonderful Esso Supreme 99+ unleaded ( which is ETHANOL FREE in the Midlands and South East of England). Esso,have decided that they are not following the industry norm,and have decided apparently for no other reasons to start adding Ethanol to their Superunleaded from September 2023. It's something they don't have to do. Those of us ,who are aware how much better our older cars run( in some cases cars than are less than 10 years old) on this fuel are trying to get Esso to change their mind . [email removed]

Well, they must have an idiot in charge. Not that I use them anyway, but another reason to avoid...

Thanks, I'll send them an email. Ethanol can cause a whole world of pain in MFI engines and the one in my RSR replica is a very expensive and very temperamental beast at the best of times.

That is very helpful to know, thank you. I use Esso Supreme in all my stuff as it is ethanol free. What a nuisance

Avgas is leaded and ethanol free and widely used in air-cooled combustion engines.

Geneve said: Avgas is leaded and ethanol free and widely used in air-cooled combustion engines. Not good if you run a lambda sensor

Jim1556 said: Well, they must have an idiot in charge. Not that I use them anyway, but another reason to avoid... Worth re-reading the issue ?

Also worth an email to Esso, different can be better from a business perspective.

I don't disagree, but it is therefore odd that someone in 'ESSO' decided to take this marketing step of adding no Ethanol into their superUL mix at the distribution points..... and now they are reverting. Perhaps it was a simple marketing test that didn't deliver a significant enough uptake in the ESSO SUL. Shame though, as my nearest petrol station is ESSO branded. Back to Tesco's best (Greenergy) next year then

I use the Esso Supreme, also as with the PCGB Wex card you get 6p off, which is always welcome. The icing on the cake was no ethanol - it changed my perception of Esso from "a bit crap" to "the enthusiasts choice". Therefore I'm obviosuly dissapointed, even though I assume it would just be a question of when. So, are there any mainstream super-unleaded fuels that have 0% ethanol now? Its impossible to tell from the pump as even the Esso Supreme ones in the SE are all labelled E5,

The lack of ethanol is one of the main reasons I only use Esso Super (though my cars are OK with E5 and some with E10; I just don't like ethanol in fuel sitting in cars I don't use much).

My petrol lawnmower loves Esso Super

Esso's Copy/Paste reply to my email (but at least they had the courtesy to reply within 24hrs): QUOTE Thank you for contacting Esso Customer Care. We are very sorry to hear that you are unhappy with the change to include up to 5% ethanol in our Esso Synergy Supreme+99. At Esso, we take the opinions of our customers extremely seriously and we have acknowledged your comments on this decision. Whilst there is no change in legislation, the general direction of travel in legislative terms in recent years has been to require additional biofuel content, and rather than be out of step with the industry we have made the tough business decision to align the ethanol content across our service station network. You may be aware that super-unleaded petrol, labelled as E5 can contain ‘up to 5%’ ethanol, so the labelling on the pumps will not change– it merely brings our fuel in line with the rest of the UK fuels market. Once again, we thank you for your feedback and will ensure that this is forwarded on to the relevant team to highlight your point of view on the decision. Regards... UNQUOTE

Hereward said: Esso's Copy/Paste reply to my email (but at least they had the courtesy to reply within 24hrs): QUOTE Thank you for contacting Esso Customer Care. We are very sorry to hear that you are unhappy with the change to include up to 5% ethanol in our Esso Synergy Supreme+99. At Esso, we take the opinions of our customers extremely seriously and we have acknowledged your comments on this decision. Whilst there is no change in legislation, the general direction of travel in legislative terms in recent years has been to require additional biofuel content, and rather than be out of step with the industry we have made the tough business decision to align the ethanol content across our service station network.? You may be aware that super-unleaded petrol, labelled as E5 can contain ‘up to 5%’ ethanol, so the labelling on the pumps will not change– it merely brings our fuel in line with the rest of the UK fuels market.? Once again, we thank you for your feedback and will ensure that this is forwarded on to the relevant team to highlight your point of view on the decision. Regards... UNQUOTE Exactly the same reply as I received. I wouldn't usually have bothered to email them but the ethanol has the potential to cause some very expensive problems in the fuel system of one of my cars.

I received the same response from their customer care office It would be great to find out who else is selling ethanol fuel

anonymous said: [redacted] AFAIK it doesn't work like that. What happens is: 'Terminal' to distribution-points - 'fuel' is pure petrol; no ethanol - no additives package. Distribution-point into branded tanker - the distribution point has the ability to add ethanol in a set percentage, and adds the additives package for that 'Brand'. The 'Brand' can make the choice of ethanol percentage at that point in the process. Therefore they can easily choose 'none'. Greenergy supply Tesco, so the only potential difference going forward will be the additives package, and I don't think there's any information in the public domain of what the differences are - for commercial reasons obviously.

Well I was told I think the above by someone who knows what they are talking about, and I'm not saying you do not, but this could all be location dependent, and definition of terms - what exactly is a terminal and what is a distribution-point, which is why above I put them in quotes. Let's just say the Majors do have a choice

anonymous said: [redacted] So as Greenergy supply (are part owned by) Tesco, then are you saying that if ESSO is ethanol free SUL then Tesco SUL (geographically dependent) is ethanol free as well? I can't see that.... but happy to be shown to be wrong. I suppose Tesco wear an ecological hat so they wouldn't want to advertise no ethanol in SUL? We're speculating

anonymous said: [redacted] ESSO is partner at the WEF, so... Do as you are told, or else. you know, for a sustainable environment...kuch. https://www.weforum.org/organizations/exxon-mobil-...

Disappointing news. Nothing we can do about it sadly other than vote with our feet. We always use Esso won’t be so fussed about using v power or tesco 99 now. Doubt it will make any difference to Esso sales as there can’t be many people who use their 99 fuel religiously like a few of us on here do.

It will curry a significant amount of dissent from the UK, multi billion pound classic and vintage car heritage industry.

astonman said: It will curry a significant amount of dissent from the UK, multi billion pound classic and vintage car heritage industry. Really? Brits are notoriously passive about expressing concern. ‘Peaved from Maidenhead’ might post on a nerdy website or grumble over their pint of beer, but we are hardly likely to show headlining dissent or blockade Esso’s refineries. Bigger issue is the decaying state of UK roads that most people have to endure every day - but it still doesn’t even rate as a political vote swinger. We just moan and accept it.

astonman said: It will curry a significant amount of dissent from the UK, multi billion pound classic and vintage car heritage industry. The "industry" might be big. But classic cars are relatively few in number. And let's be frank, don't get driven much. So, each one of this small minority of the national car fleet surely does much lower mileage than a typical daily car. And so the amount of fuel we're talking about re the "classic and vintage and heritage" market has got to be absolutely puny. Nobody is going to care. Dissent? Yep. Significant to Esso? Nope. TBH, I'm surprised high octane fuel remains as widely available as it does. That said, the premium for high octane does seem to have grown over the years, so while it must be very low volume, it is very high margin by the standards of pump fuel. I get absolutely nailed for it in my part of the country.

My other non-Porsche car is a 1980 Morgan +8 running 3.9L/290bhp on carbs. Have chronic fuel starvation issues with 97/98/99 E5 in hot weather here in UK and on the Continent.

BAMoFo said: Exactly the same reply as I received. I wouldn't usually have bothered to email them but the ethanol has the potential to cause some very expensive problems in the fuel system of one of my cars. I'm sorry to hear it could have such an impact. What are the main issues/risks for your car with fuels going to 5% ethanol? Edited by braddo on Friday 23 June 17:21

mogman888 said: My other non-Porsche car is a 1980 Morgan +8 running 3.9L/290bhp on carbs. Have chronic fuel starvation issues with 97/98/99 E5 in hot weather here in UK and on the Continent. Is that maybe a tuning issue? Maybe helped by electric fuel pumps and better fuel filters? If I still had my old Alfa I'm curious whether I would be having problems. The engine was stock on dual Dell'Ortos.

braddo said: I'm sorry to hear it could have such an impact. What are the main issues/risks for your car with fuels going to 5% ethanol? Edited by braddo on Friday 23 June 17:21 The car that I am referring to is a 911 RSR IROC replica which has a MFI fuel system that is highly sensitive, precision built mechanical fuel injection system which is over 50 years old and contains many parts that are irreplaceable. It was never designed to be used with ethanol which can negatively impact the seals amongst other things. Ethanol also increases the absorption of moisture which can cause havoc to the internal mechanisms. When the car is not in use I have to spray WD40 around the fuel system to protect it from moisture ingress from the outside. Edited by BAMoFo on Saturday 24th June 08:28

BAMoFo said: braddo said: I'm sorry to hear it could have such an impact. What are the main issues/risks for your car with fuels going to 5% ethanol? Edited by braddo on Friday 23 June 17:21 The fuel system is a highly sensitive, precision built mechanical fuel injection system which is over 50 years old and contains many parts that are irreplaceable. It was never designed to be used with ethanol which can negatively impact the seals amongst other things. I have been running mfi for years on this stuff,5%eth is not so bad,10% not so great,all parts for mfi are available,the big issue is old flexy fuel pipes, replace with ptfe lined hoses.I have had two metal flex race hoses fail,all replaced with ptfe lined.

Yellow491 said: I have been running mfi for years on this stuff,5%eth is not so bad,10% not so great,all parts for mfi are available,the big issue is old flexy fuel pipes, replace with ptfe lined hoses.I have had two metal flex race hoses fail,all replaced with ptfe lined. Same here. Fitted all ethanol resistant hoses throughout when i built my ST replica a few years back. Fingers crossed on the MFI system though.

With regard to the Morgan issues.It could be running weak on Ethanol content fuel.Ethanol containing petrol has a lower calorific value per unit volume of fuel burnt.This could lead to increased cylinder head temperature and more potential for heat related problems,like fuel vapourisation. Personally,I would try adding Tetra Boost E guard 15, to any E5 petrol that has ethanol in it.Start at the minimum recommended dose and if that doesn't work ,try a double strength dose or more. The naphtha in Tetraboost tends to increase the calorific value ,reduce vapour lock issues and increase octane. Of course,you must be very careful with it, always use disposable gloves and only use it in very well ventilated areas,eg outside. If this does fix the Morgan issues,then one really does have to laugh.Because legislation,has added ethanol for environmental issues and you are having to add lead back to cure the problems that's produced. You can only do this for cars without Catalysts and Lambda sensors of course. The only other issue that I've had personal experience of ( when using methanol for racing) was that the rubber pipes swelled up inside and practically closed off the fuel supply.Ive also had exactly the same thing happen to a fuel pressure regulator that was not alcohol compatible.This also had components that swelled up somewhere inside and reduced the max fuel supply to a trickle. Edited by astonman on Saturday 24th June 10:08

BAMoFo said: The car that I am referring to is a 911 RSR IROC replica which has a MFI fuel system that is highly sensitive, precision built mechanical fuel injection system which is over 50 years old and contains many parts that are irreplaceable. It was never designed to be used with ethanol which can negatively impact the seals amongst other things. Ethanol also increases the absorption of moisture which can cause havoc to the internal mechanisms. When the car is not in use I have to spray WD40 around the fuel system to protect it from moisture ingress from the outside. Edited by BAMoFo on Saturday 24th June 08:28 Internal components should never see moisture from the outside, the only thing you can get moisture on are external components, which dont care what fuel you have used. O-rings that aren't compatible could potentially weep out, but that's not a water moisture issue. Ethanol attacks the aluminium and o-rings in carburettors and old spec injection systems, that's where the biggest potential issue comes from for classics, it's why post use when you plan to store the car you should flush through/run the car on an ethanol free storage fuel. Anglo American make a couple of fuels specifically for this job. https://aaoil.co.uk/product-category/racing-fuel/s... They also sell a range of products designed to protect your old school injection system and carburettor which you add during your fuel fill. https://aaoil.co.uk/?s=defender&post_type=prod... As to water absorption, it should not be happening in your fuel tank at any rate worth considering. Modern cars used sealed systems, so no water can get in. An old system that vents to atmosphere can enable some absorption, but there is only 0.0094 litres of water in 1 metre cubed of 100% water vapour saturated air at 10 degrees C, which should tell you the amount of potential water you can get into a fuel tank. Store your car in a dry environment and you will see zero water. Storing it outside all year round, keep your tank full and if totally paranoid, convert it to a sealed system with the required fuel cap that has a blow off valve built in, in case you cook the car and the fuel needs to vent as pressure builds.

It's a lot easier to simply use ethanol free petrol.

astonman said: It's a lot easier to simply use ethanol free petrol. And when you can't buy it? Which is what this thread is about and why i posted the helpful info.

Some great information there thanks. Good to hear that there are workarounds.

V Power is more consistently its advertised octane then either Esso or Tesco. Or buy 95 and add an octane booster.

Oh!Ethanol Free petrol will always be available.

popeyewhite said: V Power is more consistently its advertised octane then either Esso or Tesco. Or buy 95 and add an octane booster. This discussion is about ethanols, not octanes. Whatever happened to the parrot whooshy thing?

Koln-RS said: astonman said: It will curry a significant amount of dissent from the UK, multi billion pound classic and vintage car heritage industry. Really? Brits are notoriously passive about expressing concern. ‘Peaved from Maidenhead’ might post on a nerdy website or grumble over their pint of beer, but we are hardly likely to show headlining dissent or blockade Esso’s refineries. Bigger issue is the decaying state of UK roads that most people have to endure every day - but it still doesn’t even rate as a political vote swinger. We just moan and accept it. I got a Wex fuel card through PCGB on the basis they didn’t put that s t in their fuel. If they do, I’ll bin the fuel card (and probably PCGB membership as that is the main benefit to me). And rather than Esso being a default choice, whether I use them will be based on price - and if price is the same, I’ll go elsewhere.

Orangecurry said: This discussion is about ethanols, not octanes. Whatever happened to the parrot whooshy thing? Give it to yourself, ethanol has an octane of roughly 115 so it's quite relevant.. Anyway V power is superior to any E10 laced glop. the E10 is virtually pointless. If you really insist on ethanol because you have a highly tuned forced induction engine, then visit B+Q, buy several litres of their very good bio-ethanol, fill your 55 gal tank halfway with V power, put three litres of bio-ethanol in, then top it up with V power. Then get the car mapped to suit the fuelling. ETA if you don't want ethanol just buy normal PULP and top up with an octane booster to reach 98/99 octane. Edited by popeyewhite on Sunday 25th June 12:40

Jim1556 said: Well, they must have an idiot in charge. Not that I use them anyway, but another reason to avoid... I agree I don't/won't use them at all.

So, given the conversation about Esso/Tesco/distribution etc, is there anywhere to buy Ethanol-free petrol?

https://www.classicfuelsolutions.co.uk/collections...

85Carrera said: I got a Wex fuel card through PCGB on the basis they didn’t put that s t in their fuel. If they do, I’ll bin the fuel card (and probably PCGB membership as that is the main benefit to me). And rather than Esso being a default choice, whether I use them will be based on price - and if price is the same, I’ll go elsewhere. I also got a Wex fuel card (Esso only) through PCGB. I hope they continue to provide E5 with very low levels of ethanol, I use it for 5 cars.

Orangecurry said: This discussion is about ethanols, not octanes. Whatever happened to the parrot whooshy thing? Deserved, apologies. It's sat on my shoulder as we speak.

Is Tesco 99 okay to use or are lack of additives a problem?

popeyewhite said: Orangecurry said: This discussion is about ethanols, not octanes. Whatever happened to the parrot whooshy thing? Deserved, apologies. It's sat on my shoulder as we speak. I love a happy ending

A year or two ago, a list was circulated on a classic Ford forum purporting to show Tesco petrol stations where the SUL marked as "E5" was in fact ethanol-free. I'm wondering if that was all part of the Esso/Greenergy situation that's being discussed in this thread. I've not heard any further updates on the Tesco E0 situation, so have no idea if it was every true / is still true / will be true after September.

I suspect it was true and is true,but won't be from September.

Granadier said: A year or two ago, a list was circulated on a classic Ford forum purporting to show Tesco petrol stations where the SUL marked as "E5" was in fact ethanol-free. I'm wondering if that was all part of the Esso/Greenergy situation that's being discussed in this thread. I've not heard any further updates on the Tesco E0 situation, so have no idea if it was every true / is still true / will be true after September.