RE: Porsche 911 Turbo - Page 2 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Bloody hell; an M5 keep pace with a 996TT? Either a demonstration of driver differentials and/or the 'real world' closeness of what happens when momentum and vast power clash OR in fact, a cunning M5 modificato. I remember when I got my 993TT out of the box, as it were; the drive home conveniently brought me up against a Motorsport 5 whose helmsman thought some good sport was at hand. Well, within seconds he was looking for easier prey... The new S600 (etc) may well be a different story. I've said before that Merc appear to be spearheading the power crazed German legions at the mo and with their generally unburstable standards of build - quite possibly the real pretenders to the crown of 'ultimate driving machine' for the road (as opposed to the track, I hasten to add.) Then again, Audi and BMW will counter. The new M5 will be insane so where the hell does that leave Porsche?

Porsche could easily add a lot more power to the standard cars, but they seem to choose not not. I think the turbo will need to move the goal posts again soon - I reckon a 480 or 500 bhp turbo, should be easy with no extra stress on the reliability of the cars. They can already be pushed up to the hieght 5's...

The problem is, IMHO Boss, that you would need a truly enormous hike in power to fully spank these uber saloons in almost all conditions and in/at any given gear/speed. I'm currently sitting at 490 and although can cream just about anything (so far) in the dry, the decisiveness required to really maul a latter day RS6 or AMG werewolf needs both concentration, dedication and nerve which, if exposed to MadCop & Co would invariably result in a small stretch at HMP... When the 993TT came out, it was simply untouchable. A 450 996TT will be almost untouchable today but it's just kinda irritating that Wolgang in his panzer would be bloody almost impossible to batter anywhere outside the 'Ring or your old stomping grounds in les Alpes! So in essence, you're spot on: I think at least 600 bhp is needed. Then it's a question of tractability. Phew!

It is great that the likes of Mercedes Audi and eventually BMW are demonstrating their engineering abilitys with this power war that seems to be going on , someone said that the new M5 will be 500hp . its funny just a couple of years ago when the XKR was launched at 370hp i thought that was impressive but now Mercedes seem to have gone Bonkers , surely the 996 tt would be faster up to 250kph than the fat cat boys. It makes me wonder a few years down the road when these uber saloons start to fall into the wrong hands.

How sad it is then that Germany's finest is building these quite wonderful ubersaloons yet the damn thing cuts out at 155. What is all that about ? Agreed, there's scant opportunity to give the car a good sping up to these sort of heady speeds, but why ? Respect Mercedes. For too long the wonderful V8 avec blower has whistled its way to about 377 brake, or thereabouts (length of exhaust withstanding). How wonderful that at least one car has cracked the magic 500 pony figure. And that self same car (SL55 AMG) can be ordered sans limiter for proper jackboot stompation in extremis - Autocar maxed one at 203. 203 !!! In a boulevard cruiser ? Sehr gut, sehr, sehr gut.

Damn right Greg , but what worries me is the Sandalistas and the Green brigade , i am concerned that they will pressure the govt do the same as happened to the Big bikes in Germany in limiting them to a set hp , i dont know if this HP cap is still in effect in Germany maybe this is the last hurrar , as you say full respect to MB for having the balls to put the SL55 out there 500hp and im sure it will run and run and run with very few problems

Bravo, Greg! Just the sort of descrptive cocktail this nation needs! Right; time to trundle chez moi with some unspeakably heavy metal assaulting the old shell likes. Hope it's dry tomorrow then I can let the beetle of it's leash. Wouldn't want to be accused of tedious numptiism now, would I? Cheers ears!

On the subject of turbo's, myself and TF are going for a blast on Sunday. Haven't decided where yet but if you would like to join, drop a post (my email doesn't work so don't email me....)

I think where the Porsche wins is it's allrounderrness, as Rob quite succinctly put it, it's a Swiss-Army knife of cars. Indeed, there's a Mustard Yellow 996TT around here driven by a lady well into her '60s... I Regularly see her at the supermarket carpart loading the porker up with the day's groceries and pottering around the place, the car looking more than happy to play the hatchback..... Although she must be a pistonheader as I've occasionally seen her give it bags of welly at the lights, and even though it's obvious the stability control is still engaged, the tail gives a little twitch and she's gone again

If these guys can do it, I am sure the factory can do it better. www.fast-autos.net/gemballa/gtr750pics.html

My 996TT is running at just over 470bhp, and the car seems to feel so much better than the standard 420bhp, Turbo's spool up quicker, power band is increased but the car never gets on top of you.. best car I've ever driven by far......

This is interesting, Lee. Conventional wisdom suggests that the more powerful blowers deliver bigger blows further up the rev range but can (relatively speaking) lose a bit from the off. But then again - are you still with the original turbos? I must say, this is something which is causing me no small hesitation, in my considerations of upper echelon grunt. Such a shame we don't have permanent access to tracks and loads of decent roads in Blighty. Let's be honest, the party's all too often over in these TTs before you can really ram things home with 100% effectiveness. Oh yes, one more thing; did your conversion require work and/or has it had any impact on the clutch? Cheers, D.

Lee77 I too would be intersted in hearing what you did to get 470bhp. and how you feel it handles etc.

What is the point going so fast in a "boulevard cruiser"? edited: if I fancied going so fast from A to B in a totally sedative environment I would take the train. >> Edited by Thom on Sunday 27th October 14:27

Yeah, well that's one thing your Governemt got right in the last couple of years, my Gallic chum. Although to be fair, it was our Victorian great-grandparents that started the compulsory purchase of land in order to build tracks in straight lines. Sadly due to chronic under investment our trains are a shadow of their former selves. But to return (inevitably) to your first point, dearest Thomas, who else makes a drop top like that today, with quality that simplt oozes out of it? I'm assuming you'd rather eat "Cock au vin" until you exploded a la Monsieur Creosote than sit in one of Emil Jellinek's finest. Your loss, chap. The SL55 AMG I sat in at the Motor Show was a splendid car, and whilst there's others in front of it (996 TT for instance), I'd love it tenderly with the occasional masocism moment.

"Quality", "quality", "quality"... As you say it must be lost for me; I guess it's just a matter of cultural background... PS: what's Mr Creosote?

Really Greg! Coq - not Cock. Or did you mean Cock? Knowing you and your masochistic tendencies maybe you did... Seriously though...what is the appeal of the 911 Turbo? I would put it down to that elusive quality - absolute 'rightness' in every respect. It isn't the fastest, or the most beautiful, or the best handler, or the most striking inside, or the most comfortable, or the flashiest, nor I suppose is it lots of other 'mostnesses'. But if you combine all these attributes, it scores well enough to be judged the most 'complete' car on the road today. Compact, reliable, relatively cheap to run, and, as Thom didn't quite clarify, "quality" . Plus I think it could leave most of the opposition for dead on give and take country roads. Please disagree! >> Edited by McNab on Sunday 27th October 22:53

Ian, Firstly, wonderful to hear from you. I do hope you are keeping well. Actually, in reference to the chicken in white wine sauce, it was a play on words - well spotted ! Masochistic ? Moi ? Agree mostly with your comments apropos the Turbo. Another thought worth bearing in mind (albeit not possibly relevant to yourself) is that a car like this is the stuff of dreams. Young boys become men, yet still they hanker after this beast. Get a small child to draw a picture of a car and chances are, it'll look a teensy weensy like a 911 (doubt they would enter into the air vs water cooled argument though). People aspire to this car. To own such a machine is a sign of success. Those who know, know. Hence the lack of bolt on bits, just an additional scoop or two here and there, a clever spoiler. I'm sure you probably owned one years ago, a 930 perhaps, so it wasn't such a big deal when you got yours. But, spare a thought for those of us who dream the dream. One day. When the mortgage is paid. Sod the house in Florida. I want that car. I need that car. Maybe. Just maybe.

Greg, Not maybe! I am sure you will get that car, or its sometime equivalent. I certainly hope so. Please don't anyone be misled by my car list - a bit of motor racing and an unexpected spell as a Ferrari dealer helped enormously. And throughout my motoring career each car had to be well sold to make way for the next. Reading some of the more exotic PH posts leaves the impression that lots of people step into a new rocket and thrash it from the word go without a care in the world! I don't believe it.... Maybe I'm just a ninny, but I'm still tiptoeing around with the Turbo - absolutely on edge, heightened perception, etc etc. After a couple of months that phase passes, but with every 'good' car I've ever had I never quite forget that I'm driving a bit of jewellery. Maybe others are mor sanguine? It would be interesting to know how PHers feel - timid, or hell for leather....

Thanks for keeping faith Ian - although I may just disappoint you and buy that place in Florida ! I'm a timid so and so, I'm afraid. When I'm in Mrs Greg's car, respect is shown. Apart from straight roads that is, then it gets a hoof, conditions allowing. Porsche's fault for making that delicious combo of induction and exhaust note, I'm afraid. Blame them ! I do have free access of the Boxster this week though as the GLW is already in Florida. I'm out there this Saturday. And it's got 3/4 of a tank of Optimax in it....

Hi Guy's interesting to listen to the views on the 996 Turbo, it appears whatever we have it will never be fast enough as there is much talk about power upgrades !! The standard turbo (420 bhp!!) is bloody fast for UK roads, the problem with using one daily is that you become addicted to the G-forces & a small flex of the right foot can see you easily exceeding the speed limit !! With even more BHP you would be travelling eveywhere at 150 mph!! Having owned a good number of Porsches I have to say that the 996 Turbo is simply amazing. It doesn't simply accelerate, more throw itself up the road, we have warp drive ! But the car is not just about outright speed rather the complete package,everything balances,great steering feel,zero body roll, incredible grip & traction in all weathers & a fantastic set of brakes. As Evo mag. said, not even a modified EVo could keep up with the Porsche across country.I appreciate it is not as focused a drivers car as a GT3 or 993RS, but the turbo isn't far away on fun factor & it can also be a comfortable GT car.As an ultimate drivers car I would probably have a Caterham for sunny weekends, but the 911 turbo is the ultimate everyday "supercar".Negatives,it doesn't sound loud enough inside, Porsche have got the sound spot on in the BoxterS (& of course the aircooled models) & they need to improve the engine sound under full load inside, or at least offer a sports exhaust. Perhaps fellow owners can tell me about any good aftermarket exhaust systems they have found that aren't over loud (without "boom" & "fizz") & keep the current CATS intact ? Right I'm off for blast !!!!!!!!!!!!!

interesting to listen to the views on the 996 Turbo, it appears whatever we have it will never be fast enough as there is much talk about power upgrades !! GRANT Welcome to the mad house that is pistonheads. I'm not aware of anyone on pistonheads having put a sports exhaust on a 996tt other than Lee77 who had his chipped and "re-exhausted" at the same time (not sure what make). DAZ

Hi there, Grant. Every so often you can be seduced by alternatives. It's the nature of PistonHeadery but all you need to cure yourself is, as you suggest, pop out for a blast. Then you know...

Derestrictor have you got k24 turbos? do you get much lag? my 993tts has, you could boil an egg waiting for them to spool up (did inprove a bit with exhaust system), me thinks that in the real world a std 993tt would be an easier car to drive fast! Paul

Whilst we're discussing the 996 Turbo, could someone give me an idea of the running costs for, say, a good 2 or 3 year old example? I am giving serious thought to trading in my '02 Carrera 2 for an older GT3 or 996 Turbo. Heart wants GT3, but the better half reminds me there's the small question of where to put the Hooligan. I thought I might get round that by buying a comfort version (without the roll cage or the fixed back seats), and having the Porsche baby seat "plumbed in" to the back. That way we could use it as a family car - sort of. But the Turbo seems the better all round proposition. What's putting me off the 996 Turbo is a) running costs - insurance is not so much the problem, it's replacement of parts. If I want to do several track days a year, I need to budget for the cost of monster tyres, monster brakes and possibly the occasional unexpected expense like a new clutch. b) it's just too quick - how long before I lose my license? At the least the GT3 feels and sounds quick, which is important, I think, as it helps to keep one sensible on the public road. c) the immediacy of the handling - I've always preferred delicate handling to overtyred, overtractioned and overpowered cars. Not that I'm saying the turbo is, just that I'm not sure I'd be able to wag the tail quite so easily as in my Carrera. Actually, come to think of it, the Carrera is everything I need. I have to stop thinking like this...

Harris....I don't know the legislation in your part of the world...but in the UK the RS / Clubsport two seater cars,if registered new ,are registered as 2 seaters.Even if you fit something in the back,there can be a problem with carrying more passengers than the vehicle is classified for with the DVLA...keep the C2 mate...

Paul, The uprated turbos are bigger hybrid KKKs (K16s with K24 internals, so I'm told) which are designed specifically to retain the low power version's spooling immediacy, yet managing to invoke the war cry of Satan in battle following a particularly savage vindaloo when required. But it's a pertinent point you make re the comparison with the standard car which does feel grasshopper quick off the mark. Over time, though, I reckon that the vaccuum cleaner soundtrack to the overplumbed 408 bhp car focusses the senses entirely on the speed rush alone which I suspect may make it seem quicker than it actually is. Because now, with a sportier belch in the back and performance enhancing drugs, my beetle is certainly as fast right off the mark but thereafter slightly beserk when the blowers are fully girded. Having said that, Paul, there may be a level of power where the reticence you describe could be an issue; the only reason I've not jumped to 550 to date is that low end lag would definately poop the party. Anyawy, I was delighted to learn that my power kit actually puts out 493 rather than 490 bhp - sad or what?! Just waiting for a new 340mm TechArt steering wheel to be fitted after which I shall be repeating the daring-do of the 'Faszination' video in the northern moors (well, maybe not quite ) and thereafter, it's power to weight mods all the way - target 400 bhp/tonne. Domster will be proud! Any chance of some piccies of your 'S?' (Is it a 430 or a 450 version?) DeR.

It's funny, as I get older I find myself looking at 911s (or whatever its real number) and thinking I'd really, really like to have a go in one... D.