Anyone leasing their Cayman?

Still trying to decide what to do. What would be a better hedge against depreciation? I'm thinking that in 2-3 years, there might be a couple more interesting versions of the Cayman or 997.

That is my thinking as well Wes, and I am almost positive I will do mine on a 3 year lease. I might not know for sure till I see the car. I will have it set up in advance through my bank to do either before the car arrives. I am still waiting for Porsche to tell me what terms they are going to offer on a lease. Russ

I'm likely to lease mine, probably a three year... couple of reasons: If Porsche comes out with an RS or other souped-up version, I want to be able to easily get one, and leasing allows you to pay the sales tax on the car (which here is 8.25%, pretty steep) as you pay your payments, and not all up-front. Btw, I've financed and leased my last two cars (a 99 996 and a 2002 turbo) though Porsche finance services, and they've been top-notch, with super competative terms and rates. And, they're actually very nice to deal with over the phone if you have to talk to them for some reason... it's a small office in the Chicago suburbs, and you can actually talk to someone instead of a machine if/when you need to. Brad

Brad, That is good to know. BMW finance was the same way, and I am hoping that Porsche will have some good terms on the Cayman, jsut wish they would get to it! My dealer still says that the facts are not available yet on the Cayman. Russ

Anyone know if they restrict track driving, etc. on leases?

Very true, but you forgot the even better deal (or maybe I'm reading it wrong).... You only pay tax on part of the car while you use it(i.e. 36 months), not the fullcost of the car like when you buy it outright That makes it nice too.

Chad, You are correct. You pay the tax as you go... Carbon - here's what the wording on a Porsche lease says: B. Vehicle use You agree to: not allow, if the Lesee is an individual, anyone other than your spouse (provided that both you and your spouse are properly insured and maintain a valid, unrestricted drivers license) to operate the vehicle allow Lessor to inspect the vehicle at any time during the lease term upon reasonalble notice keep the vehicle free from claims of others not use the vehicle for any unlawful on imnproper purpose, or for hire. not use the vehicle for any daily rental enterprise not use the vehicle to push, pull or otherwise tow any objects not remove the vehicle from the United States without the consent of lessor not alter, mark, or install equipment in the vehicle without lessor's written consent and you agree to remove same and replace with original manufacturer's equipment at your sole cost. maintain the vehicle in compliance with all federal, state and local laws and regulations regarding operating condition and not use the vehicle in any form of auto racing or off-road activity. ------------------------------------------------- Above that section, it also says that you will maintin the vehicle's warranty and won't do anything to it that will void the manufacturer's waranty... So, what 'any form of auto racing or off-road activity.' means, I think is entirely up to interpretation... is track use an off-road activity? Well, one could probably make a case that it is... is a track day an auto race? Well, technically, it's called 'driver education' and no one is racing, even for time... Will that hold water? I don't know... The warranty on my Turbo expressly excludes (among a host of other things): Modifications not authorized by Porsche Cars, NA or its authorized dealers. Abuse, acts of God, accident, competition, racing or track use or other events beyond the control of Porsche cars, NA. So, technically, there goes autocrossing (competition), track days, etc. Let your conscience (and your pocketbook) be your guide. Brad

Brad, that is sure going to makea lot of people rethink leasing, me for one! Thanks Russ

I really don't have a problem with any of that . . . since i don't track the car . . . but i will burn up the H3 Freeway!!!

What about going a balloon loan instead of the lease? Most of them allow you to refinance the balloon payment at the end of the term which in a sense acts just like a lease but you are actually buying equity in the car instead of paying for the use of it.

Interestng that you brought that up K-Man S... I talked with the sales manager at my dealership about the 'Porsche choice' program becasue I'm interested in keeping my payments down at first if I decide not to sell the turbo. They told me that program was started almost solely for the residents of New York state, becasue the courts ruled there that when someone leases a car, the actual owner of the car (the lessor, in their case Porsche) was liable for anything the lessee does with the car, including suits from accidents, etc., since the lessee is basically renting the car from the owner for a specific period of time. 'Choice' terms are basically the same from a money standpoint of a lease, but I'm not sure if the contract language about what you can, and can't do with the car is any different. I was going to check into it next time I go by the dealer. And since it's a purchase, the paying the sales tax as you go in a lease changes to paying all the sales tax upfront, which on a $70k proce tag is just about $6,000 out here in N Calif. They also said for that reason, most people don't go that way and lease the car instead. Another thing for everyone to remember is that PCNA has been tightening the restrictions on what they' ll do under the warranty if thay think you've been tracling or autocrossing in the car. All they have to do is plug it into the computer, and they can read-out your driving behavior, including if the car has beemn redlined a lot. Many people who autocross their under-warranty cars out here do so under assumed names, because the results are posted on the Web, and a quick Google search will bring up the results to the service folks and they can see you've been using the car for a 'competition.' Brad

Beez, I hear what you're saying and the lease terms may prove to be a problem for people who wish to track their cars, but for anyone participating in a track day or DE, unless the computer shows an overrev from a missed shift, there is no way that Porsche could (or would, in my experience) deny a warranty claim. The number of times a car is redlined is irrelevant, since the car is designed to be run at redline (hence the limiter) Just my .02 ............

Hey Rick, I understand the logic, and I agree with you - yes the cars are made to run at redline, but if your motor blows up, even on the street, or have some other very costly repair, they're going to look to see if you've had a pattern of what they might view as abuse or track use, and that's one place they're going to look. I'm not saying they will automatically deny warranty claims, but they've been known to do it if they can establish what they think is a history of track use and competition. I's been a strange open secret all over the place... dealerships even sponsor PCA autocross series in some regions. At my dealer, even one of the service writers talks about upcoming area track days, and it's been an ongoing discussion topic on the PCA tech Q&A site for quite sometime. Bujt the wording in the warranty book stays the same, and I'm just alerting people here who may not have as much experience in this matter. You are right... one track day isn't going to void your warranty, as long as nothing nasty happens. Also you should remember that the rev limiters on Porsches work on upshifts, but if you miss a shift on the way down, it will not invoke the rev limiter, and you can over-rev the motor. Brad

Beez, Completely agree with you on the downshift problem. What language in the warranty are you referring to ?

Rick, The warranty on my Turbo expressly excludes (among a host of other things): Modifications not authorized by Porsche Cars, NA or its authorized dealers. Abuse, acts of God, accident, competition, racing or track use or other events beyond the control of Porsche cars, NA. Brad

Beez, Given all of Porsche's reference to the track in their product information, I find it offensive that they would exclude 'track use' from a warranty. I aould understand competition events, but DE'S and track days ?? I think that they are just covering themselves.

Rick, That's the point a lot of folks are making... they, as in Porsche, seem to be sending very mixed signals to their customers, and a lot of others find the dichotomy offensive, too. When you consider PCNA even offers an on-track program using their own cars (which I've attended even the 'masters' course, by the way) and they tell you while you're there, 'see what these cars can do and what they can take?' Like I said, there's been more than two years of discussions about this on the PCA tech Q&A, and why some folks out here AX under assumed names, even. The advice over there on the PCA site is basically, let your conscience and pocketbook be your guide. Yeah, they're covering themselves alright... replacing motors is expensive enough when there's a rear main seal problem as many of these cars have had since 1997, but I don't think they want to get into replacing everyone's motor blown up on a track day becasue they don't know how to heel-and-toe properly. FWIW, the warranty on my BMW 5 series sport wagon has essentially the same language in it. Brad

Brad, I understand everything you hace said except for one point. On the track, (and I've done over 50 DE's and over 40 Club Races over the past 7 years) you either make a mistake (an overrev) which will show up in the computer, or you don't. If the engine fails, (and by the way, I have never seen this happen) on its own and not a result of an overrev, the what difference does it whether it happens on the street or on the track ??

Rick, I guess what I'm saying is that it doesn't matter if the engine fails or is abused on the track or on the street, but one of the things they'll look at is the car's history according to the computer to see if the car has been abused. People abuse they're cars on the street all the time, obviously, so this doesn't necessarily have to happen on the track. If they feel the car has been abused or tracked, they could deny warranty coverage. I don't know how far back the memory of the computer goes, and neither do many experts, and I'm sure the manufacturers don't want you to know... but they can read out driving behavior, and track driving, Im sure, can be seen pretty easily by the repetitive nature of it. I'm not saying they'll deny coverage all the time, I just wanted to make sure many of the people on this site who are new to the cars know this is an ongoing issue, one that I know has been discussed on very high levels within PCA and between PCA leadership and the powers that ve at PCNA and Porsche, AG. I hope that made sense... Brad