Interested in a 911 RS - 1972/73 model - Page 2 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Some help for you: 3 currently for sale on www.mobile.de all 1973 models, prices between 79K and 140K Euros. Also check out www.911-rs.de and www.dennigcars.com they have 5 cars from 1973, priced from about 50K Euros. As far as logic goes, it's your money therefore your choice. Condition wise they should be in excellent condition, these are collector's cars. I would suggest they should be totally original, which is why I did not mention the 2.8RSR built on a 911RS (1973) available at www.911-rs.de All the ones shown are 1973 year models. I am sure Domster and Iguana plus others can help you more than me.

autofarm is the only uk company that does much with these www.autofarm.co.uk think they have a original one and a modernised 3.6L motec engined jobbie if you want to go the non standard route. Bennno

that would be this one at 49k, by the way it was built new in 2001!! If you check their web site they seem to sell almost all RS's that have changed hands and seem to be the only company for inspection and servicing of these rare beasties Bennno

Cheers Kevin. Iguana is the real expert on old RSs, I only like the more modern ones (964+) myself, but that's just a personal thing and the oldies are meant to be pretty amazing... very tactile and lots of character. I think you'll find that if you forfeit character a little, then a 964RS or 993RS will be more practical propositions, as they have great handling but also great brakes - which the 2.7RS never had. Interestingly, the newer ones aren't meant to be much quicker! IMHO, if you can afford it, the new GT3 Clubsport seems like a bit of a treat, and will hold its value well in years to come. I don't fancy a first generation GT3 as some complaints have been made in some quarters about their brakes and overall trackability. The new one should address those problems. The nineties RSs are pretty spectacular :yawn: I won't drone on as these guys have heard it all before. Suffice to say that Colin Belton (ninemeister), a respected tuner, reckons that a tweaked 964RS (say 5k mods) would be quicker than a 1st gen GT3 on most circuits. As for the oldies, you need to ask Iguana or some real experts. They are poor value if you ask me, far too expensive - up to 60k or something these days. The provenance and originality is a big thing here, and if you want to tinker with it I'd suggest something more modern and less precious - or a decent replica, which will cost a third of the price. If I was in your shoes, I would consider the Cup or 964RS (a Cup is for sale on PH classifieds today) as a weekend/trackday car, and either a 968, 993 or Boxster as everyday driver. Soooo.... 1) Does this logic make sense? Decide whether you want one or two cars for your money. I would be tempted to get a replica 2.7RS and have some fun with the extra cash, or a nicely orginal 964RS etc. if you are worried about the investment potential. 2) What model / year should I consider? Depends on car. 3) What are the main things to look for? Depends on car. More to watch out for on older cars, plus watch the provenance of the collector's specials like the 2.7RS. 4) What condition should the car have? Depends on what you want to pay. It is easier (and cheaper) to find a mint newer car though, than one from the 70s. If you want brand new, get a deposit on the GT3 clubsport. 5) How important is originality vs. modern upgrades (i.e. brakes)? Not sure you should even think original 2.7RS if you are asking this question. Better bet would be 964RS or 993RS (993RS is technically better and easier to drive, but pricier). 6) What should I expect to pay (I was thinking £30-£45K)? 2.7RS - struggle to get an original for this. Replica easily available. Consider this. 964RS - plenty available, see www.mcp-motorsport.co.uk (I am not a big fan of Martin, but his stock is alwaya quite good). 993RS - in budget, must be considered GT3 - get one LHD for the upper reaches. Not sure I'd bother 7) Where is the best place to find such a car? See Kevin's links. Maybe also visit Autofarm ( www.autofarm.co.uk ) as they are vintage RS experts. And MCP is a good website for the modern ones. 8) Where can I go or whom could I talk to learn more about the car? Autofarm for a chat. Hope this is useful. Cheers Domster

Mark Waring also sources these cars...wish I could remember his website...something like worldwide classics.... Tee, nice choice, respect to you...but be very very careful out there - originality is a must for these cars, even the wrong flared rear wings make a difference.......GT3 a good backup too.

911 RS of this era is a fantastic car..i always wanted one,but feel it is definitely a fair weather car now it is THE classic Porsche. AS you are considering other cars,you may want to consider the 911 Clubsport..there are 53 rhd cars registered in UK between '87-89...They are white with red CARRERA scrpt & wheels,based on 3.2 Carrera with lightweight spec.they are a truly wonderful car.price range is £22-£30 ish thousand and are more usable on a day to day basis. There are road tests I have where they have come out very well against & in some case eclipsed the fabled early RS.They do not have the cachet of the fabled one in Porsche circles however.

" Suffice to say that Colin Belton (ninemeister), a respected tuner, reckons that a tweaked 964RS (say 5k mods) would be quicker than a 1st gen GT3 on most circuits." No problemo!! With my Cup Car at 300bhp, it is within 5bhp/tonne of a 1st gen GT3 and easily keeps up (but with more noise!!) So any RS with over 300, and Colin knows it is possible, should easily give the heavier GT3 a good run!! Melv

Clubsport is right, the 80s 3.2 CS is a good choice as well. Came out higher than a 964RS, just behind the 2.7RS in an Evo test. Depends if you like the look (similar to 2.7RS, so you may). PS Don't mean to slag off 1st gen 996 GT3s as they are great cars, but just not sure best value for money for what you want. The new one, however, may eclipse all else!

Kevinday, Benno, Domster, rubystone, clubsport and melv First of, thanks for the feedback. All of you raised valid points. Particular, I share the doubts whether the 1 gen GT3 is really good value for money because of some of its known weaknesses, hence my hesitation. As for a new GT3 – I also share the belief that it will set new standards – yet I find the price is simply to high. I like the idea of the old 911 2.7 RS because it is a classic and, I guess, therefore the investment characteristic would warrant the price. In addition, it is a car, which over time could be personalized yet keeping it authentic. I looked at the 993 RS which I am very fond of – simple but great to drive – but again I shy away from the asking price for a well kept spec. The 964 RS, although it is a great car – more so on the track than lets say a B-road – somehow never really appealed to me. I guess mainly superficial looks – I hope I am not stepping on anyone’s toes by saying that. Hence my dilemma, which one to get. I was warming up to my initially presented idea but very quickly you guys touched on some valid comments which make reconsider. That is why the GT3 would be my current favorite if it would not be for the many little “if and but” concerns. TEE P.S. As I am German I would only consider LHD

Hi Tee, I have written loads about early 911s including '73 RS's on the Porsche forum, if you troll through the search funtion you should find some stuff. >> Edited by iguana on Saturday 1st February 12:37

Iguana, hope to meet you at VW this Sunday to discuss :-) BTW what's wrong with the first generation GT3? (apart from the fact it gets in the way on corners at track days) Edited to preserve the anonymity of the forum lizard. >> Edited by domster (moderator) on Monday 3rd February 10:13

Silver Arrows (respected classic Merc SL specialist) have had a 2.7RS listed as in stock on their website ( www.silverarrows.co.uk ) for ages. There are a couple of nice pics. They describe it as a rust free original matching numbers Italian import. Could be worth an enquiry if you're still leaning towards an early car? Price is POA (I hate it when people can't just tell you the price in ad's!) but if it's anything like their Mercs they're not shy about asking silly money. Nearly bought the other half a car there - lovely chap but he was insistent that top cars command top money and would not budge from the asking price. His stock doesn't move very quickly and he's based out of a nice little mews location in Fulham so I presume he has other sources of income! I've never had the pleasure of driving a 2.7RS but I have had an extended drive of a 2.4S of that vintage. While it was lovely it felt quite old to be frank. Is the RS really in such a different league? Chris

Chris, best compliment I can pay the "old" cars is that anything with good poke (modified E, thru S and RS) feels like a 964 RS...that may be a good or bad thing...for me a GOOD thing....

Hi, I know after reading the rules of posting I can't name & shame on this forum and I do not wish to upset anyone, but I just have to comment on this Autofarm subject and in particular the RS replica for sale. I'm not going to name & shame the company, although it appears I am not the only one who does not hold them in the highest regard, I'm merely going state a fact that is well known in cerain Porsche circles I have met the owner of this car & he seems a nice genuine guy, but he doesnt seem to be aware that :edited for potential legal reasons - this could be a valid point though, so please contact this poster directly for more information if interested in this car: Edited by domster (moderator) PS Porscheboy, I had also heard the rumour mentioned here (and may know you or at least a mutual friend or three) and it does seem that the jury is out on Autofarm. Yet they are one of the few specialists in RSs, hence the fact they have been mentioned. Buyer beware, as always. >> Edited by domster (moderator) on Thursday 30th January 14:24

Tee, early 911 discussion which includes a nice bit of handbag banter with myself & rubystone can be found here- www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=1&f=48&t=17829&h=0&hw=911S a bit more on- www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=15995&f=48&h=0&hw=911S Edited to add- Domster why the legal edit of an earlier post? I'll make a bet its the :edited, sorry iguana, this is against posting policy as it could be legally dodgy... this can't be put up in case Autofarm tries to sue PistonHeads: I know you are law trained but surely its not really a legal issue if it is in fact true rather than just a rumour? Its pretty common knowledge anyway. :That is why I suggested interested parties speak to Porscheboy direct: Anyway I wont comment further but someone else agrees too as this post I found back in the archives says- Wednesday 28th August 2002 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can't agree with the recomend of autofarm. More like Autofarce, rude sales people, clueless service dept and a million other reasons. Its been a while since I went there but its like a bad taste in the mouth ie it never goes away. I do appreciate things do change but I thought the Camtune operation was far superior. Its only my opinion tho.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- :This post is OK.... it is the claims about the car they have for sale that can be troublesome for Ted. Just doing my job >> Edited by iguana on Thursday 30th January 15:36 >> Edited by domster (moderator) on Thursday 30th January 15:46 >> Edited by domster (moderator) on Thursday 30th January 15:48 >> Edited by domster (moderator) on Thursday 30th January 15:50 >> Edited by iguana on Sunday 2nd February 18:15

Wow. I wonder what Iguana's post actually said in its full unexpurgated glory... Handbags indeed - you'd have loved the VX220.org.uk banter recently, but they took it too seriously and banned the lot of us...

Ruby I'll post it again at about 2am when Komandant Colbeck is asleep, after he hangs up his peaked leather cap & his evening Bratwirst & a few gallons of Hock orgy is over..... I shall now wander around the prison camp shaking earth from my trousers & whistling Hitler has only got one ball in a great escape styley... Only joking Dom or with his new and rather frustrating powers I'll probabally be banned from logging in for a month and have to go in the cooler

I've already told Rubystone what, I mean, vot it iz about off-line. He is just winding you up, in anticipation for some kickboxing at VW to settle the RS debate you two had, once and for all A reminder to all.... please do not post anything libellous on PH, for Ted's sake, ie stuff about third parties breaking the law. You know how Jeffrey Archer got off for shagging prostitutes for years, and got tons of damages, because the Mirror couldn't prove anything at the time >> Edited by domster (moderator) on Thursday 30th January 17:51 >> Edited by domster (moderator) on Monday 3rd February 09:54

Sorry Dom my PC seems to have developed a screen fault & I couldn't quite catch that last post. Was it somthing about you and the staff at a certain Porsche specialists were in an orgy with Jeffry Archer with lots of prostitutes and you were all looking in the mirror Bloody hell on re-reading it it seems I was involved too, thats shocking and you a moderator too >> Edited by iguana on Thursday 30th January 17:59 Edited to stop Ted's sex life being brought into disrepute. >> Edited by dazren (moderator) on Thursday 30th January 19:16

Chris_N said: I've never had the pleasure of driving a 2.7RS but I have had an extended drive of a 2.4S of that vintage. While it was lovely it felt quite old to be frank. Is the RS really in such a different league? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Right enough Domster baiting for today.... and back to the topic which is probabally best started by replying to Chris N's post. The performance of a 2.4S and a 2.7RS is not actually that far apart in bhp terms there is actaully only 20bhp in it and a similar weight (RS Touring) Its tough to compare the 2 as they are 30 yrs old but assuming mint standard versions of each- yes the 2.7RS grips a bit better but a 2.4s is easily sorted in that area, the RS also handles a bit better but again the 2.4S is easily sorted in that area too. So other than looks which is easily sorted you can with the right mods make a 2.4s handle very nearly the same as an RS (you can't get 8J fuchs on the rear like an RS without wheel arch mods though) and even the engine is quite easily uprated to 2.7 spec. You would be a bit mad to do all this now with what an original 2.4S is worth but I hope it kinda proves some kind of point! Yes they do feel a bit 'old' to drive but really only in the brakes dept, and yes on an RS originality is everything, and mess with it & its worth less. Yes they are much much less torionally stiff than a modern car but I feel they must be possibley the best & most modern feeling 30yr old car to drive. Hndling wise all the torsion bar 911s are very similar underneith the skin so other than than fact all later 91s got more lardy it is a similar ride but better cos of the lighter weight. They may be 30yrs old but still have a better power to weight ratio than a new 996 (actually not sure about the new 3.6 engine but certainly than the 3.4) and that plus the classic shape is why its the most copied Porsche (although the GT3 look on the 996 must be a close 2nd now days!) and is the reason why they are an icon and worth so much. TEE if you are only looking for lhd you are on a winner as they are much much cheaper for RS's simply as there are far, far more LHD cars then RHD. You will only get a Touring for your budget even a lhd lightweight is even more than one of Domsters media lunches! (Sorry dom I couldnt resist! ) and RHD lightweights, lets just say you could buy a lhd GT3 PLUS a lhd 996turbo PLUS a lhd 964RS for not far off the price that is often asked for the best lightweights!! Anyway go careful as there are lots of fakes,dogs, and dodgy dealers out there, and looking in europe seems to be worse than in the UK. Also if it needs a lot of bodywork budget on spending the same as the puchance price on sorting it if you want it done properly.

Moi - wind Iguana up...you must be thinking of someone else..tell you what though, he's spot on on that RS advice isn't he...me, I love 'em. Might be worth adding how so much lighter pre impact bumpers feel to drive than a contemporary 911 - a lot of 911 "virgins" remark on how heavy the later cars feel to drive in all respects. The pre impacts really are dainty creatures and controllable at the limits...had you been driving one of those Dom I doubt you'd have got near any badgers ....

It was a little while ago when I last had a go in my friend's 2.4S, in my pre-911 owning days when I was driving a E36 M3 Evo. Makes me wonder if it was just the contrast with the comfy BM which overrode everything else. Or maybe under the shiny paint it was not the mint example it looked (hope not for my mate's sake). The esteem in which you guys hold these early cars makes me think I need another look. I'll have to give my friend a ring and talk him into swapping drives with me! Once the ice has thawed enough to get my car out of my road that is! Chris

Chris N..it is true the old cars are held in high esteem...but for many of us,certainly myself the first drive of A 911 was interesting,but you don't neccesarily get what it's all about.It definitely takes a while to appreciate them (9 years & counting),as you learn the handling characteristics. the old cars as with most evolved cars are lighter and give more of a raw experience.Thing is you may hate it,yet get in a newer car which still has some of the feeling & feel more at home. Also the old cars have that mystique that they were near to the start of the current 40 year 911 production run..if you are not blown away,don't worry..i would honestly be suprised if you were straight away.

A bad pre impact 911 is as bad as a doggy, tired post impact. You don't "get" the 911 experience in a 5 minute test drive, no matter what the model or how good it is...although I found the Boxster a doddle to drive straight out of the box as it were... Anyone buying a 911 really needs to try a few before making their decision, it's just a shame that most dealers don't give the time of day to these people

After further due diligence and consideration, and the many valid comments and suggestions from this board, I am backing away from the idea of considering a 72/73 RS as a valid trackcar alternative. Rather, I am going back to considering a first generation GT3 as track/street combination. I guess I even prefer it over the 993 RS, mainly because it is newer and has more power. Hence my question then would be what are the real flaws, besides the brakes, of the first generation GT3 in peoples mind? Different tyres or suspension work? How easily and how much would it cost to "upgrade" the car to eliminate some of these "flaws"? How much does it cost to add a half/full cage to non-CS cars? Thanks again for the patience with my many questions... TEE

It may be worth contacting Gary Bullen he is the register secretary at PCGB.on [email removed]..I expect he will be able to answer any questions. I would not rush into an old GT3 purchase right now,as when the new model arrives in the summer you will start to see a slide in values of the existing model..If money doesn't matter ,just ignore this & have fun!

If you did fancy saving some money, a LHD 993RS (1996N) in black with 65k miles is being sold for 35k in Porsche Post this month. Seems good value, if you ask me. The new GT3 Clubsport would be the one to go for if you could afford twice that... mmm... future classic written all over it

"I am backing away from the idea of considering a 72/73 RS as a valid trackcar alternative. Rather, I am going back to considering a first generation GT3 as track/street combination" Chalk and cheese..... Melv

As long as he pulls over to the side to let the 964 & 993RS's past and doesnt mind replacing discs & pads after each trackday the GT3 is a good choice ps rubystone were you at VW? >> Edited by iguana on Wednesday 5th February 14:26

If the GT3 is such a nail, can someone please tell me how they managed to break the Nordschleife (excuse spelling) lap record for production cars in one ? Melv, Have you responded to the GT3 register report in the latest Porsche Post contrasting the GT3 with the earlier RS cars. I'd be interested in your counter arguments.

"As long as he pulls over to the side to let the 964 & 993RS's past and doesnt mind replacing discs & pads after each trackday the GT3 is a good choice"... When I was at Rockingham my friends Elise S1 111s was outpacing a 964rs on slicks! Can't speak for the 993rs though as I myself have not encountered them on track yet. As for the brakes & pads... the cost of having fun I guess. Howeever, at the end it is the driver who makes the difference, otherwise I would not be having so much fun lapping all the expensive motors in my Elise... ;-) Clubsport, I agree with you on the timing... will not do anything before the fall anyway. Thanks TEE

I was being just a tad sarcastic although IMHO it would be down to the driver which is quickest ref 964/993/Gt3 ref the GT3 brakes we have discussed this before on here but they certainly cook 'em far more than the RS's

HERMANN -I won't be baited!! Read the article with care!! No, I know the writer well and can only agree with what he says. He also agrees and values my findings on the GT3 (based on driving it and not hearsay, I hasten to add). His comments were pitched at the armchair 'informed (loose term!) enthusiast and journalist', who were happy to slag the car off. The new model should address any apparent deficiencies in the old design. The 964RS, 993RS and GT3 are all different cars in their own rite. All fantastic, all extremely quick and capable on the road and on track. But, each has it's own foibles and followers, and any owner of a particulur brand is bound to praise the good points and feel hurt if somebody points out the bad points. His comments about the '996RS' would, apart from the 'chassis twists and bucks' and spitting 'lubricant out of it's breather pipes' apply to my Cup Car, and THAT, is why I like it!! Melv

Hi, I am currently thinking about getting a 911 RS (72/73)as my first car for my yet "no existent collection". The main reason I like this car is its famous heritage and the fact that I can still drive it on the track. Currently, I always find myself looking to improve my current car with expensive add-ons, which I will not get back when I finally sell it at the end of the year (never intended it to be a keeper). Alternatively, I am still contemplating a GT3, but if I get a RS instead I could then get a less “focused” Porsche for my regular use and drive a “special car” on the track. The questions I would like feedback on is: 1) Does this logic make sense? 2) What model / year should I consider? 3) What are the main things to look for? 4) What condition should the car have? 5) How important is originality vs. modern upgrades (i.e. brakes)? 6) What should I expect to pay (I was thinking £30-£45K)? 7) Where is the best place to find such a car? 8) Where can I go or whom could I talk to learn more about the car? Sorry, for the long list but and thoughts or comments are appreciated. TEE