Manual owners - who heel/toe into 1st on slow corners?? - Page 2 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

I think most of us know about Porsches long gearing on the manual (& PDK to a lesser extent) with 1st redlining at around 46 mph and 2nd at 82 mph... Just wondering how many of us shift to 1st gear when driving briskly when approaching a slow corner (e.g 20 mph)? I calculated that it's around 2k revs in 2nd gear so well away from where the power is. My calculation from the power charts (Porsche brochure) that 2k revs produces only 75 hp with base 2.7 and 86 hp with S & GTS where as 1st gear would be around 3.4k revs which produces around 129 hp & 160 hp respectively.

Never used 1st in anger in that way (don't know if the 5 speed is lower geared). It's not like it's so peaky that you need to, it has enough pull in 2nd to do the job most of the time. Actually, come to think of it, I was doing it around a lot of the switchback hairpins in the Alps (when going up mountains particularly when you're on the inside), but that's the only time I can think of where it was actually necessary. Edited by juansolo on Tuesday 7th April 10:02

sootyvrs said: I think most of us know about Porsches long gearing on the manual (& PDK to a lesser extent) with 1st redlining at around 46 mph and 2nd at 82 mph... Just wondering how many of us shift to 1st gear when driving briskly when approaching a slow corner (e.g 20 mph)? I calculated that it's around 2k revs in 2nd gear so well away from where the power is. My calculation from the power charts (Porsche brochure) that 2k revs produces only 75 hp with base 2.7 and 86 hp with S & GTS where as 1st gear would be around 3.4k revs which produces around 129 hp & 160 hp respectively. I only ever blip the throttle when changing to 1st gear on uphill hairpins in the Alps and Switzerland etc. Never felt the need on any 'flat' corner in the UK. Its a little easier on uphill hairpins too if you are going fast into the corner then you can get the braking done then blip, into first, turn in, power on and away.

juansolo said: Never used 1st in anger in that way (don't know if the 5 speed is lower geared). It's not like it's so peaky that you need to, it has enough pull in 2nd to do the job most of the time. Actually, come to think of it, I was doing it around a lot of the switchback hairpins in the Alps (when going up mountains particularly when you're on the inside), but that's the only time I can think of where it was actually necessary. Edited by juansolo on Tuesday 7th April 10:02 Ok its mainly in an old aircooled. But I agree with this ^^^. I 've driven alot around the Pyrenees and its always (unless 10MPH hairpin) 2nd and 3rd on the way up, third and forth on the way down. Momentum and smoothness outweigh BHP for a quick time IMO. 1st on anything this side of a GSXR/HP4 1000 motorbike, is not required whilst driving.

sootyvrs said: I think most of us know about Porsches long gearing on the manual (& PDK to a lesser extent) with 1st redlining at around 46 mph and 2nd at 82 mph... Just wondering how many of us shift to 1st gear when driving briskly when approaching a slow corner (e.g 20 mph)? I calculated that it's around 2k revs in 2nd gear so well away from where the power is. My calculation from the power charts (Porsche brochure) that 2k revs produces only 75 hp with base 2.7 and 86 hp with S & GTS where as 1st gear would be around 3.4k revs which produces around 129 hp & 160 hp respectively. Not sure where you get the 46 & 82 mph figures from but on my 997 2nd gear ends at about 60 I would only change down to 1st if approaching a junction on a minor road that I could potentially boot it out of, not in normal driving, but would always H&T out of sympathy for the clutch / my back Edited by jakesmith on Tuesday 7th April 14:47

jakesmith said: Not sure where you get the 46 & 82 mph figures from but on my 997 2nd gear ends at about 60 This gearing is for 981 Cayman

sootyvrs said: This gearing is for 981 Cayman 2nd gear goes up to 82MPH!? Seriously!?

jakesmith said: 2nd gear goes up to 82MPH!? Seriously!? Unfortunately yes for all 981 Boxter/Cayman models inc. GT4 http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=129... Edited by sootyvrs on Tuesday 7th April 15:30

Sounds atrocious! Well in that case, I'd recommend using 1st for slow corners!

So 2nd is low enough to be used for hairpins and goes all the way up to 82mph? Porsche has made a car with one forward gear worth using I at least use 2nd and 3rd in my 987, with 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th (it's a PDK) being used for cruising.

This was posted in the link I posted above which suggests max speed is indeed even higher at 49 mph for 1st and 84 mph 2nd! rudester said: The max speed in gear for the 981S manual and (PDK) Gear / Ratio (PDK) / Max Speed (PDK) MPH 1st / 3.31 (3.91) / 49 (42) 2nd / 1.95 (2.29) / 84 (71) 3rd /1.41 (1.65) /116 (99) 4th / 1.13 (1.30) / 144 (125) 5th /.95 (1.08) / 172 (151) 6th / .81 (.88) / 201 (185) 7th / (.62) / (263)

anonymous said: [redacted] I've owned one for over 2 years & don't think it does. Also the book that came with the car says 69 in 2nd gear.

sootyvrs said: This was posted in the link I posted above which suggests max speed is indeed even higher at 49 mph for 1st and 84 mph 2nd! rudester said: The max speed in gear for the 981S manual and (PDK) Gear / Ratio (PDK) / Max Speed (PDK) MPH 1st / 3.31 (3.91) / 49 (42) 2nd / 1.95 (2.29) / 84 (71) 3rd /1.41 (1.65) /116 (99) 4th / 1.13 (1.30) / 144 (125) 5th /.95 (1.08) / 172 (151) 6th / .81 (.88) / 201 (185) 7th / (.62) / (263) Assuming those figures are (more-or-less) correct it does beg the question of why manual cars are always quoted as having a maximum speed about 1mph faster than PDKs. I would expect there to be slightly more gearbox drag in a PDK box since there are more gears in mesh, so if the cars were IDEALLY geared the manual car would be a tad faster outright. However the (3.4) manual car is undergeared in 5th and seriously overgeared in 6th whereas the PDK car is almost ideally geared in 6th (Peak power is at 7400, but is only a little down at 7000rpm). So I would expect the 3.4 PDK car to be a little quicker outright - not that I make a habit of doing 175 officer. (The 2.7 on the other hand is ideally geared in 5th as a manual and under/overgeared in 5th/6th as a PDK, so the manual ought to be faster.)

I posted about this recently in another thread and it seemed as if I was alone. Yes I'll drop into 1st up to about 25mph, its 100% smooth and totally mechanically sympathetic. Even 2nd at say 30mph is far too slow.

sootyvrs said: jakesmith said: 2nd gear goes up to 82MPH!? Seriously!? Unfortunately yes for all 981 Boxter/Cayman models inc. GT4 http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=129... Edited by sootyvrs on Tuesday 7th April 15:30 That sucks balls. One thing I've never thought with mine is that the gearing was too long. I think it barley gets to 60 in 2nd. Should see if you can drop a 987 box on there

Must just be me, I don't think I have ever taken a corner at less than 20mph whilst trying to drive "briskly" ; if faced with an alpine hair pin I doubt I would change down to 1st given 2nd in the 981 imo has more than enough torque to pull it out of the corner relative to the overall Power Weight ratio of the car anyway. Whilst I accept you could change down gear and H&T (if not in a pdk) as mentioned early in the thread I suspect this would actually be slower than feeding the throttle firmly in 2nd gear

I in the main have used second for Alps and Pyrenees hairpins. Sometimes first feels too short and others second too long. Trotmant - you might have a different view when you drive those sorts of roads. Factor in a steep incline and a car with 100bhp + in front of you and I find myself bouncing like in a kart! Do this several hundred feet up and the car is a fair bit down on power too.

edc said: Do this several hundred feet up and the car is a fair bit down on power too. I dare say....but I doubt I would want to drive fast / accelerate hard this high up - be too scared with the margin for error

Trotmant said: edc said: Do this several hundred feet up and the car is a fair bit down on power too. I dare say....but I doubt I would want to drive fast / accelerate hard this high up - be too scared with the margin for error It's all awesome until the dashboard lights up like the starship enterprise warning of imminent brake failure and your pedal goes long /voe Though, you can drive briskly without driving like a psycho in the Alps. Also when in Switzerland, you can drive however you like, but if you're in a bright red Porsche and an Aston AMV8, the locals will all think you're a c**t regardless and try and kill you at every opportunity if you dare to overtake them.

anonymous said: [redacted] I sit corrected on this one, gave it some thrapp in 2nd and indeed it was about 70mph at 7k revs. Which begs the question; what the f k are all the reviews on about with the GT4 being long geared? The extra revs of the 3.8 will cover the 10mph discrepancy, so the gearbox that's just fine in every other Cayman is now leggy in the GT4? That's just damned weird! It should be a nightmare in my gen1 2.7 then with naff all power comparatively, yet I've never noticed it until it was brought up here. Are the reviewers just nit picking? Like they did with the electric steering too, that really isn't that bad at all. Bah, sounds like b ks to me, and doesn't stop me wanting a GT4 even though there's no chance in me ever affording one these days.

juansolo said: I sit corrected on this one, gave it some thrapp in 2nd and indeed it was about 70mph at 7k revs. Which begs the question; what the f k are all the reviews on about with the GT4 being long geared? The extra revs of the 3.8 will cover the 10mph discrepancy, so the gearbox that's just fine in every other Cayman is now leggy in the GT4? That's just damned weird! It should be a nightmare in my gen1 2.7 then with naff all power comparatively, yet I've never noticed it until it was brought up here. Are the reviewers just nit picking? Like they did with the electric steering too, that really isn't that bad at all. Bah, sounds like b ks to me, and doesn't stop me wanting a GT4 even though there's no chance in me ever affording one these days. Regarding gearing - although I don't feel the need for more power - I think the manual gearing is absolutely ridiculous on the 2.7, definitely too high on the 3.4, and probably still a bit high on the 3.8. Why? Because I still think it's high on a 3.4 PDK - which, because of it's lower gearing, has the same torque at the wheels as the 3.8 manual in each gear. And re electric power steering, it is, to me, the weakest feature of my 981S. It simply isn't as good as my wife's Suzuki Swift Sport. (Latest version) Now the Swift is highly regarded (and actually more fun than the Porsche on some roads) but Porsche ought to be able to be able to match it's steering. I have to say I was disappointed that - though the GT4 steering is supposedly revised - that no commentator actually said it had more feel the standard 981.

Only test drove the 981 2.7 manual and didn't notice the gearing was bad. Then again I didn't get to thrapp it. The 3.4 PDK I had a good go at and other than deciding that I really don't want PDK, again didn't seem particularly long geared. As for the steering, I registered it wasn't as good as the 987 and quickly forgot about it. You just do these days as most cars have very little feel through the wheel. If you want that, you've got to buy a Lotus. Hmmm, I'll give Harris his due, he complained about it on the base manual also: http://www.pistonheads.com/regulars/ph-chrisharris... But loved the old 987 2.7... Which appears to have the same or similar gearing. I suppose I can't really draw any conclusions myself unless I lived with one for a bit. But it does seem a bit like he's changed his mind. Edited by juansolo on Thursday 9th April 19:52

juansolo said: As for the steering, I registered it wasn't as good as the 987 and quickly forgot about it. You just do these days as most cars have very little feel through the wheel. If you want that, you've got to buy a Lotus. I'd like to - pity Lotus have lost there way in recent years. I hope they find their way back, because I'm probably more in tune with their "core values" than Porsche's.

I always engage first when at slow speeds, no matter what the terrain is. You see, I have a sports exhaust that makes such an awesome noise that it would be plain idiocy to not enjoy a bit of aural when out and about!