Can Power Steering Plus (PSP) be Retro-Deleted on a 991.2? - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

A question about PSP. I know it divides opinion, often based on a misconception about its relative merits, but is it possible to remove it? I'm told it is a software programme that can be retro-fitted (about 1 hr labour), but my OPC wasn't sure if it can be 'retro-removed'. Thanks

Yep

Does anyone know any U.K. OPC who has done this? Mine haven’t, so just want to confirm to them that it’s possible.

Why delete it It’s a low speed assistance

I don’t need low speed assistance. There are also mixed opinions about its relative ‘feel’ at higher speeds. I’m not sure how true this is, and may only apply to earlier derivatives. However, I prefer as few driver interferences as possible, and for the sake of a software tweak, I’d be happy to remove it.

If I may ask, how do these electric options feel compared to the old hydraulic setups? I was going to say older but the newest hydraulic-steered 911s are a decade old!!

Often wondered; if PSP is just a software reprogramming of the standard Electronic Power Assisted Steering (EPAS), are there not other bespoke set ups that could be ‘tailored’ to suit a given car or driver? Or, are there periodic software version updates available?

braddo said: If I may ask, how do these electric options feel compared to the old hydraulic setups? I was going to say older but the newest hydraulic-steered 911s are a decade old!! on 991.1 and all 981 cars pretty nasty which is autter shame as I would have owned a 981 GTS :-( (i owned a 991.1 GTS and had to sell it after 2 months) normal 991.2 cars only a bit less nasty GT3 passable if it's your only car, but jump back and it can feel a bit dead till you recalbrate. I have CUP parts on mine which was a transoformation in feel and for me has made the car. waiting for a test drive in the 718 GTS see if it has GT4 steering or nasty s t, HM says it was good , but I don't rate his reviews as he is a JAG man and theirs is nasty so it would feel good. So it gets better and better every model but it's not hydraulic good what ever owners on here say.

Koln-RS said: Often wondered; if PSP is just a software reprogramming of the standard Electronic Power Assisted Steering (EPAS) are there not other bespoke set ups that could be ‘tailored’ to suit a given car or driver? Or, are there periodic software version updates available? It's something I've wondered too. I'm guessing PS+ will just be a case of programming the servo motor to run faster/provide more assistance as slow speeds. I'm guessing the rack is a mechanically variable ratio item ? and assistance from the servo motor is reduced as the speed of the car rises. I wonder if the GT3/RS/GT2 cars use some form of additional g sensor alongside the vehicle's speed sensor which is then used to reduce assistance as the g loads on the car increase. The 981 Spyder used the 991 Turbo's steering rack AND a smaller diameter steering wheel, which would tend to indicate the racks themselves do differ mechanically. And a polite request David, rather than just stating that "the steering fitted to A,B & C is s t" and "that the steering fitted on D is completely s t", it would be really useful if you'd explain what it is that's lacking from your perspective, be it weight, consistency of weight, lack of feel/ feedback etc, as repeatedly saying something is s t just makes it sound as if you don't have the diction to elucidate what the drawbacks of the EPAS steering systems are, when it's clear you do Edited by Slippydiff on Thursday 22 October 10:01

Koln-RS said: Often wondered; if PSP is just a software reprogramming of the standard Electronic Power Assisted Steering (EPAS), are there not other bespoke set ups that could be ‘tailored’ to suit a given car or driver? Or, are there periodic software version updates available? If they did updates that improved your car then you might be less inclined to purchase the newest shiny model with 'better steering'.

Geneve said: I don’t need low speed assistance. There are also mixed opinions about its relative ‘feel’ at higher speeds. I’m not sure how true this is, and may only apply to earlier derivatives. However, I prefer as few driver interferences as possible, and for the sake of a software tweak, I’d be happy to remove it. It's a simple plug in and turn on/off. When it is on it only affects the steering at low speeds, at higher speeds it is effectively not there so there is no difference in high speed feel with it added or removed from the car.

Slippydiff said: And a polite request David, rather than just stating that "the steering fitted to A,B & C is s t" and "that the steering fitted on D is completely s t", it would be really useful if you'd explain what it is that's lacking from your perspective, be it weight, consistency of weight, lack of feel/ feedback etc, as repeatedly saying something is s t just makes it sound as if you don't have the diction to elucidate what the drawbacks of the EPAS steering systems are, when it's clear you do complete lack of feed back on what the tyres are doing esp in the wet, you drive on faith and what you think it can do and have to be reactive over knowing the grip limits before it lets go. You cannot drive them in the wet at 100% imo. In the dry you can use other senses and a sim helps hone these senses which are maybe 2nd and 3rd for a old school driver. But EPS is poor, Monoballing my GT3 all round has given back that feel on the road, the nvh noise which monoballs have added have offset the EPS a lot, but I don't get 996 GT3 like unwanted noise so a win win, but then the GT cars differ a lot over the non GT cars and the EPS is quite good to start with on the GT3. I can now again tell the surface change though the wheel over through the bum to give me confidence in driving it harder faster etc. For me "confidence" in the car is key to being fast. My 981 SPyder was not nice at all and I ran that all though winter lol , the 991.1 GTS worse still, so bad I had to sell it even after a set of PS4S. you jump back in a fully monoballed 987.2 car and you have every thing you need to pilot a car in all weathers at 100% even over. I am suprised no one cracked the EPS code as it would transform a 981 car, the 981 GT4 was pretty good if a 981 GTS was that good it would be a great car. Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 22 October 11:14

Porsche911R said: complete lack of feed back on what the tyres are doing esp in the wet, you drive on faith and what you think it can do and have to be reactive over knowing the grip limits before it lets go. You cannot drive them in the wet at 100% imo. In the dry you can use other senses and a sim helps hone these senses which are maybe 2nd and 3rd for a old school driver. But EPS is poor, Monoballing my GT3 all round has given back that feel on the road, the nvh noise which monoballs have added have offset the EPS a lot, but I don't get 996 GT3 like unwanted noise so a win win, but then the GT cars differ a lot over the non GT cars and the EPS is quite good to start with on the GT3. I can now again tell the surface change though the wheel over through the bum to give me confidence in driving it harder faster etc. For me "confidence" in the car is key to being fast. My 981 SPyder was not nice at all and I ran that all though winter lol , the 991.1 GTS worse still, so bad I had to sell it even after a set of PS4S. you jump back in a fully monoballed 987.2 car and you have every thing you need to pilot a car in all weathers at 100% even over. I am suprised no one cracked the EPS code as it would transform a 981 car, the 981 GT4 was pretty good if a 981 GTS was that good it would be a great car. Did the 981 GT4 not use the rack taken straight from the 991.1 GT3 along with all the other front suspension components ? That begs the question, are there different (mechanically, rather than software programming) racks used across the 991/981 range ? Perhaps three ? The one used on all the 981 Cayman/Boxster GTS, S and base cars, a slightly faster rack used on the Turbo (and the one allegedly used on the 981 Boxster Spyder ?) And a different rack used on the 981 GT4, Gen 1 GT3/GT3RS ?

Slippydiff said: Did the 981 GT4 not use the rack taken straight from the 991.1 GT3 along with all the other front suspension components ? That begs the question, are there different (mechanically, rather than software programming) racks used across the 991/981 range ? Perhaps three ? The one used on all the 981 Cayman/Boxster GTS, S and base cars, a slightly faster rack used on the Turbo (and the one allegedly used on the 981 Boxster Spyder ?) And a different rack used on the 981 GT4, Gen 1 GT3/GT3RS ? I guess 3 at least, but it's all about the calibration and it's a shame no ones cracked it, A engine remaps, no one cares and you get 10 bhp for £1k on NA cars bar the 981 GT4 where you can get a big uplift. I would pay £1k for a eps remap on a 981/991 GTS to make it feel like a 991.2 GT3.

Slippydiff said: Did the 981 GT4 not use the rack taken straight from the 991.1 GT3 along with all the other front suspension components ? That begs the question, are there different (mechanically, rather than software programming) racks used across the 991/981 range ? Perhaps three ? The one used on all the 981 Cayman/Boxster GTS, S and base cars, a slightly faster rack used on the Turbo (and the one allegedly used on the 981 Boxster Spyder ?) And a different rack used on the 981 GT4, Gen 1 GT3/GT3RS ? I'm not sure about 991/981s but often there's no physical difference between racks of different 911s. On the 996/986 for instance, there's no difference between a Boxster steering rack and a 996 GT3. Even the Cup car is identical except for travel restrictor on the ends of the rack to stop the tyres fouling the arches. Don't know if Porsche charge the same though...

Geneve said: Does anyone know any U.K. OPC who has done this? Mine haven’t, so just want to confirm to them that it’s possible. yes we need to know 100% if it's possible, as the nice green GTS at Leicester has it, and I might go for it if you can undo Power steering plus. Not talking the risk other wise. it was never good in the past so screw being a Guinea Pig.

Yes, exactly my view. PSP may be fine, but wouldn't want to buy a car and then find it spoils the whole experience and isn't reversible. Which OPCs have de-commissioned it?

Geneve said: Yes, exactly my view. PSP may be fine, but wouldn't want to buy a car and then find it spoils the whole experience and isn't reversible. Which OPCs have de-commissioned it? Some bedtime reading for you that sounds encouraging https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1136625-ct-owners-...

Did anybody ever follow up on this? Wondering the same and whether there are OPCs in the U.K. that will remove the option.

I would also like to hear confirmation that a UK OPC had disabled PSP.... In my case, it would be for 718 but guess the process will be the same for all models? Thanks Rich

Anyone.....? Anyone......?

I can’t confirm who has done it, although I have been told it can be done. I have also been told that PSP is not noticeably detrimental- it just provides more assistance in low speed manoeuvring.

PS+ can be deactivated once activated; the system is 'enabled' using a code supplied by the factory code IPAS system entered in the PIWIS tester and is available as a Tequipment retrofit. I have deactivated a few cars (991 and 992 so don't see why it won't be possible on different model lines). As an aside, the functionality is now available OTA on Taycan with monthly subs or buy outright as of this week.

Thanks for the definitive reply Pope, I’m going to get it activated on my 991.1 as I have dodgy joints. I think it should be a boon at slow speeds.

Pope said: PS+ can be deactivated once activated; the system is 'enabled' using a code supplied by the factory code IPAS system entered in the PIWIS tester and is available as a Tequipment retrofit. I have deactivated a few cars (991 and 992 so don't see why it won't be possible on different model lines). As an aside, the functionality is now available OTA on Taycan with monthly subs or buy outright as of this week. Presumably, deactivation is also possible when PSP is fitted as a factory option? Are you happy to share which OPC has deactivated PSP? Thanks Rich

Fine by me; I am in Reading - truth be told the first time I was tasked with it was when a Sales car had been activated mistakenly! Not by me I hasten to add The enabling code is over-written disabling the active code; PSP is switched off. Reactivating just needs the correct code input again.

Many thanks - really good to know. I am 100 miles into ownership of a Cayman 718 GTS 4.0 which I bought as an ex demo. Spec was pretty much spot on but did include PSP which I would not have optioned myself. PSP clearly offers more assistance at low speed compared to my old 981 GTS but I really haven’t driven the new one on anything other than motorway / dual carriageway yet. I need to cover more miles and on a variety of roads before making my mind up. Rich

Reviving this thread. Has any owner here actually gone to a OPC and had them deactivate PSP on a 991.2? And would it invalidate a warranty? I understand from this thread that it can be done, but whether it has been done, by an owner here, and what if any the consequences were, is a different question! Thank you.

I haven’t had it done, but my OPC confirmed that is was an approved software procedure. Not everyone likes PSP.

I had a 991.1 with PSP and managed to get it deleted by Porsche, an awful addition in my view, it just made the steering 'Japanese' light at low speeds, not nice at all

Just to give this thread a bit of a balanced view. I I’m a mere mortal and have a 992 GTS with power steering plus. I’m fit, healthy, mid 40’s with normal sized 💪🏻 and use the car for a bit of fun when I fancy; not taken to the track yet. I have never had any consideration to the power steering being too light or anything of the sort and imagine it is fine for 99.8% of people. I appreciate if you’re Lewis Hamilton’s cousin then you may feel differently but for people picking up a car that comes with PS+, I don’t think you have anything to worry about. Conversely, I imagine that those without PS+ will be just fine too.