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YOUR RESEARCHNitrogen filled tyres - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK
Leading reported evidence
Fill with moist air
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PV=nRT, so a tyre filled with dry nitrogen will experience an increase in pressure as temperature rises comparable to a tyre filled with moist air.
Leading evidence: 'Fill with moist air' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Fill from an ofn tank it will be moisture free' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suggestion
The only advantage I can see is if the tyres are filled from an OFN tank it will be moisture free.
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Suggestion · Original poster
Is this readily available at filling stations around the country should I need it?
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Suggestion
The key point is filling it with a dry gas - water undergoing a phase change screws up ideal gas predictions!
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Hi all,
I've ordered some MPSS tyres for my car and the supplier uses Nitrogen exclusively. Is this readily available at filling stations around the country should I need it?
Secondly, they suggested that as an emergency I could top up with air and then I could go back and they would empty them and refill again.
Any thoughts on the above points and are there any real world benefits of using nitrogen when not on the track.
Cheers
Don't waste your time.
Nitrogen will only work if it is filled in a air free tent in the same way a F1 team would. If you do not remove all the air it is pointless.
[Image-only or quote-only post; no author-written text.]
http://www.arranalexander.co.uk/ekmps/shops/macduffdave/images/the-emperor-s-new-clothes-ladybird-book-favourite-tales-gloss-hardback-1999-738-p.jpg
If you think that you are genuinely extracting 100% of every aspect of your cars performance and you need another 0.05% extra, then go for it.
If this is the case, then you should probably call Ron Dennis as he will be very interested.
Depends - do you find that variation in tyre pressure affects your apex speeds and that the change in ride height messes up your aero on the way to work?
There are many suck performance tweaks, and my sense is that there is no value. I am a good, but not especially great driver, and never reach the edge of performance with my car that a very talented driver would. The benefit of nitrogen would be zero for me.
I can improve performance by:
-more time with a good coach
-a month on a diet and more time at the gym
-studying tracks thoroughly
- a return to the skidpad for a refresh
Its like buying professional golf clubs or the like. Its much more about maximizing your own input than marginal improvements to the equipment.....
lingus75 said:
Just get good old H2O. Readily available, Sir Srirling did okay with it.
WTF? he ran water filled tyres?
Anyway, as above don't waste your money.
Campo said:
lingus75 said:
Just get good old H2O. Readily available, Sir Srirling did okay with it.
WTF? he ran water filled tyres?
Anyway, as above don't waste your money.
I do love it when peole try to be smart & get it totally wrong!
Thought as much given that the likelihood of them removing the air from the tyre prior to re inflation is very low. I was of the opinion that it was marketing guff at very best prior to posting. Was just curious if there was something I had missed.
Looks like I'll be eating lettuce and tweaking aero to optimise my coffee run in the mornings. Looking forward to the arrival of Michelin Pilot Super Sports for the next track day. Will be interesting to compare against the PS2's.
FZP said:
Looking forward to the arrival of Michelin Pilot Super Sports for the next track day. Will be interesting to compare against the PS2's.
Prepare for a shock, in the dry it'll be like day/night between the 2.
GT03ROB said:
Campo said:
lingus75 said:
Just get good old H2O. Readily available, Sir Srirling did okay with it.
WTF? he ran water filled tyres?
Anyway, as above don't waste your money.
I do love it when peole try to be smart & get it totally wrong!
That has made my day already!!
Not so. PV=nRT, so a tyre filled with dry nitrogen will experience an increase in pressure as temperature rises comparable to a tyre filled with moist air.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_gas_law
RatBoy M3CSL said:
I've not tried H2O, as fluids don't compress very well last time I checked, and I suspect that might not help with the unsprung weight either .. ;o)
on the question of compressibility..and fluids..
a distinct difference between a liquid and gas..(both fluids) is that the liquid is essentially incompressible..at least to a first order approximation.
cf: (ex Wiki) In physics, a fluid is a substance that continually deforms (flows) under an applied shear stress. Fluids are a subset of the phase of matter and include liquids, gases, plasmas and, to some extent, plastic solids. Fluids can be defined as substances which has zero shear modulus or in simpler terms a fluid is a substance which cannot resist any shear force applied to it.
Although the term "fluid" includes both the liquid and gas phases, in common usage, "fluid" is often used as a synonym for "liquid", with no implication that gas could also be present.
Edited by BMCG on Sunday 21st September 16:15
El Guapo said:
Not so. PV=nRT, so a tyre filled with dry nitrogen will experience an increase in pressure as temperature rises comparable to a tyre filled with moist air.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_gas_law
The key point is filling it with a dry gas - water undergoing a phase change screws up ideal gas predictions!
PJI said:
Don't waste your time.
Nitrogen will only work if it is filled in a air free tent in the same way a F1 team would. If you do not remove all the air it is pointless.
This blindingly obvious point has been ignored and always seems to be overlooked! The tyres have a whole tyre full of air in when they are fitted, so a nitrogen fill is pointless.
Nitrogen doesn't add any performance by the fact that it's Nitrogen.. zero.. the only benefit is the thermal stability.. so your tyres don't increase in pressure 5 or 6psi on a track day, or 2/3 from winter to summer, so for track work it can have advantages because it's more stable, but that's only if you get all the moisture out, and purge all the air out of the tyre to start with.., any moisture in the air causes the pressures to climb with heat.
Edit.. Dry Nitrogen is more stable as above but not neutral.. pressure does increase with temp, but only by about 1psi.. not the 5/6 experienced with air..
I've not tried H2O, as fluids don't compress very well last time I checked, and I suspect that might not help with the unsprung weight either .. ;o)
Edited by RatBoy M3CSL on Monday 22 September 09:03
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