993 RSs in Guards Red - Page 5 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Hi everyone! I hope you all had a great new year and managed to stay safe. Please can I pick your brains? My name is Holly and I work for Tom Hartley Jnr, we have taken in 4 very special classic 993s and I needed some help in finding out production numbers....to start with does anyone know how many RHD 993 RSs were built worldwide in Guards Red? And out of the 41 RHD examples can we refine it further to know how many out of the 41 were Guards Red? Really appreciate any help on this guy's x

Yellow491 is your man Holly. He’s the PCGB register guy and is encyclopaedic on all things air cooled.

993rsr said: Yellow491 is your man Holly. He’s the PCGB register guy and is encyclopaedic on all things air cooled. Amazing!!!! Thank you so much

Hi Holly - I'm sure they'll sell themselves. Probably to someone on here, so I'm a bit confused why you want the info? Take the evening off.

HollyMcNulty993 said: Hi everyone! I hope you all had a great new year and managed to stay safe. Please can I pick your brains? My name is Holly and I work for Tom Hartley Jnr, we have taken in 4 very special classic 993s and I needed some help in finding out production numbers....to start with does anyone know how many RHD 993 RSs were built worldwide in Guards Red? And out of the 41 RHD examples can we refine it further to know how many out of the 41 were Guards Red? Really appreciate any help on this guy's x Worst details and POA post ever!

THJ bought a red 993 RS at auction several months ago. Beautiful car

This is UK production numbers for 993’s which I found on PH recently. May not be accurate!

I'm loving that red RS

Cheib said: THJ bought a red 993 RS at auction several months ago. Beautiful car How much did they pay for it?

Orangecurry said: Cheib said: THJ bought a red 993 RS at auction several months ago. Beautiful car How much did they pay for it? £300k ish from memory.

Makes the one on Autotrader look like a bargain.

Orangecurry said: Makes the one on Autotrader look like a bargain. it has 7k miles, the one on AT has 10 times that.

I seem to remember that the first RHD 993RS was guards red and built for their chief stylist/designer who was a Brit. I also wonder what happened to the silver RHD RS that was for sale for ever with Thames Valley breakers, the famous ad with the photos with bog roll on the passenger seat (comforts) and the windscreen wipers that parked on the right hand side thus clearly proving if was an accident repaired write off. The days when PH Porsche forum was funny and worth a read.

seawise said: I seem to remember that the first RHD 993RS was guards red and built for their chief stylist/designer who was a Brit. I also wonder what happened to the silver RHD RS that was for sale for ever with Thames Valley breakers, the famous ad with the photos with bog roll on the passenger seat (comforts) and the windscreen wipers that parked on the right hand side thus clearly proving if was an accident repaired write off. The days when PH Porsche forum was funny and worth a read. The first red RHD car was initially a Porsche development car and subsequently owned by Fred Hampton. Happy days on the forum back then as you say.

I bought M333RSR from Sambaman. The ex Tayson Trakaday ex Frankel Guards 993RS. Had had a front end smash and rear end smash before I bought it but actually a great car once I had the mechanics rebuilt at Fearnsport Guards red Cup spoilered 993RS are the best. I blame Slippy for the purchase as I saw his up for sale and fell in love with the model

993rsr said: seawise said: I seem to remember that the first RHD 993RS was guards red and built for their chief stylist/designer who was a Brit. I also wonder what happened to the silver RHD RS that was for sale for ever with Thames Valley breakers, the famous ad with the photos with bog roll on the passenger seat (comforts) and the windscreen wipers that parked on the right hand side thus clearly proving if was an accident repaired write off. The days when PH Porsche forum was funny and worth a read. The first red RHD car was initially a Porsche development car and subsequently owned by Fred Hampton. Happy days on the forum back then as you say. I had the pleasure of speaking to Fred a couple of months ago when I was looking for my RS. What a character ! I found a copy of Porsche Post with his RS Register column from the early 80’s the other okay online.

But that wasn't the first RHD car in the UK .. or the first RHD car in red. The car had a vin ending 90009 and it was prototype car which Porsche expected not to sell. Why RHD ? According to Tony Hatter (the designer) it was the first shell they had access to for the work that they planned. Porsche at the time were short of money and after all the tests they decided to sell the car and Fred Hampton bought it. On collection in the glove box the car had a log book recording all the mileage and drivers whilst with Porsche ... Fred checked on collection that this belonged with the car ... and so it does. Prior to sale the test engine was removed and a new RS engine was fitted. The log book recored the mileage covered, consumables used, distance covered, purpose for each journey and the name and signature of each driver ... which included some very famous names (and signatures). The "purpose" included cost centres and development project code. The car then ended up with me. Why did I sell it ? Life is a mystery, not a museum. Now playing with a 944 Turbo Cup, 996 GT3 MkI RHD CS ... etc ... but if I could have kept every car that i have owned ...

Redarress said: I bought M333RSR from Sambaman. The ex Tayson Trakaday ex Frankel Guards 993RS. Had had a front end smash and rear end smash before I bought it but actually a great car once I had the mechanics rebuilt at Fearnsport Guards red Cup spoilered 993RS are the best. I blame Slippy for the purchase as I saw his up for sale and fell in love with the model Best not to mention Sambaman ... VW Relics ... 911 Heaven ...

Cheib said: Orangecurry said: Makes the one on Autotrader look like a bargain. it has 7k miles, the one on AT has 10 times that. Yes but you could actually use the AT car. This 7k one is no longer even a car. It is merely a three dimensional investment.

ChrisW. said: Best not to mention Sambaman ... VW Relics ... 911 Heaven ... Yes but what goes around comes around

It did.

Orangecurry said: Cheib said: Orangecurry said: Makes the one on Autotrader look like a bargain. it has 7k miles, the one on AT has 10 times that. Yes but you could actually use the AT car. This 7k one is no longer even a car. It is merely a three dimensional investment. No...hard to use properly without wiping a 5 figure sum from it’s value.

Cheib said: This is UK production numbers for 993’s which I found on PH recently. May not be accurate! For the rs those figs are way off,i have all the chassis numbers of the uk cars,plus row ,way more rhd built. Freds car was great while he owned it,i have a pic on delivery day,it had a interesting life afterwards! I think THJ can find there own data out, they could not be bothered to ring me back on a car i was interested in after phoning twice.Hey ho

Yellow491 said: Cheib said: This is UK production numbers for 993’s which I found on PH recently. May not be accurate! For the rs those figs are way off,i have all the chassis numbers of the uk cars,plus row ,way more rhd built. Freds car was great while he owned it,i have a pic on delivery day,it had a interesting life afterwards! I think THJ can find there own data out, they could not be bothered to ring me back on a car i was interested in after phoning twice.Hey ho 😂😂😂 And you’ll not be hearing from Holly here again!

Well this post went down like a lead balloon for THJ.

Orangecurry said: Hi Holly - I'm sure they'll sell themselves. Probably to someone on here, so I'm a bit confused why you want the info? Take the evening off. Hi Orangecurry, yes they’ll sell themselves for sure. I’m learning about 993s and want to make sure I explore the avenues so I don’t end up misinforming and I thought would be the place to come. We’re not planning on selling them for the moment, Tom wants to keep them for his own private collection for now.

Cheib said: This is UK production numbers for 993’s which I found on PH recently. May not be accurate! Thank you so much, really kind of you!

Deansfield said: Yellow491 said: Cheib said: This is UK production numbers for 993’s which I found on PH recently. May not be accurate! For the rs those figs are way off,i have all the chassis numbers of the uk cars,plus row ,way more rhd built. Freds car was great while he owned it,i have a pic on delivery day,it had a interesting life afterwards! I think THJ can find there own data out, they could not be bothered to ring me back on a car i was interested in after phoning twice.Hey ho ?????? And you’ll not be hearing from Holly here again! I’m sorry to hear no-one came back to you Yellow491 - DM me when you approached us and I’ll make sure Tom is aware, he’d be very upset to hear this, I’d like to follow this up internally so please let me know... I’d still be really interested in knowing if you could genuinely help with the information I’m trying to source, I appreciate you’ve got a bitter taste with no-one coming back to you but if you can put that to one side I’d love to hear from you, everyone seems to claim to know about 993s but few can give accurate info and I feel like ok banging my head against a brick wall sometimes!! Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I totally appreciate that!

g7jhp said: HollyMcNulty993 said: Hi everyone! I hope you all had a great new year and managed to stay safe. Please can I pick your brains? My name is Holly and I work for Tom Hartley Jnr, we have taken in 4 very special classic 993s and I needed some help in finding out production numbers....to start with does anyone know how many RHD 993 RSs were built worldwide in Guards Red? And out of the 41 RHD examples can we refine it further to know how many out of the 41 were Guards Red? Really appreciate any help on this guy's x Worst details and POA post ever! What details would you have preferred to read?!! Talk about falling at the first hurdle!

GT4RS said: Well this post went down like a lead balloon for THJ. I can feel the love!!!

HollyMcNulty993 said: I’m learning about 993s and want to make sure I explore the avenues so I don’t end up misinforming and I thought would be the place to come. We’re not planning on selling them for the moment, Tom wants to keep them for his own private collection for now. Private collection I'm sure he'll hang onto them just long enough for the price to go up. It's such a shame that the car is wasted on people who put them into 'private collections'. But It looks like you'll have to misinform potential customers on the precise rarity of Tom's cars. And I know rarity and value are the principle reasons for owning such cars. Psssst just make up a low number - none of these buyers will care Hang on - here's an idea. If you really want to learn about the 993, the best way I found was to run one as your daily driver. Put the idea to Tom Junior - I bet he'll say yes.

It seems that there is a wrong that can be righted ... let's hope so. As to the history of the development car after Fred, it lived the life it deserved I bought it in full knowledge ... unlike a lot of the now original panel original paint claims that are made. Unfortunately they have become so valuable and everything can be re-engineered ... as-if it really mattered. OK ... I wouldn't want a written-off resurrection ...

I still own a 993 RS and had one since they were just a few months old. Paul was / is the man on them. He helped me loads on a few cars in the early 2000,s . I was very tempted by the red 993 RS that THJ bought and offered more than it sold for prior to the auction. Great cars, a good buy and easy to live with. Hope he enjoys the car.

Surely Porsche GB can provide this information? Don’t envy you working for that lot.

Essential. Are you the guy that has a silver RS and very pretty white RS that was at Dove House for a while ? Apologies if my memory is confused 😐

2 GKC said: Surely Porsche GB can provide this information? Don’t envy you working for that lot. Nope. GDPR and they stopped giving out production data a while before that because it was fuelling the fires of the market “only 40 made and this is the only guards red one”

Redarress said: Essential. Are you the guy that has a silver RS and very pretty white RS that was at Dove House for a while ? Apologies if my memory is confused ?? I had one of the RHD Rivieria Clubsports The owner of dovehouse had the sikver RHD CS Yes I sold my white RHD comfort via DH Have owned about 5 speed yellow ones. And a black RHD early on Still own a speed yellow Clubsport Still enjoy them

Essential said: The owner of dovehouse had the sikver RHD CS Still enjoy them I well remember taking a mate up to DH to look at a 360 after he totalled his 911, Id guess that was back in around 2011. I’m stood in the car park next to my lowerly 968CS just as the owner of DH arrived in his RS. He jumped out of the RS and came over asking me a zillion questions of my CS whilst i grasped to understand him as I stood there in awe staring at his 993. Seemed a real petrolhead and nice fella in what I saw of him ..... My friend had no idea just how rare the car was and couldn’t understand my excitement of having a look around one.

HollyMcNulty993 said: I’m sorry to hear no-one came back to you Yellow491 - DM me when you approached us and I’ll make sure Tom is aware, he’d be very upset to hear this, I’d like to follow this up internally so please let me know... To be fair you can’t fault Holly and she obviously takes any complaint seriously if she’s willing to follow it up internally.

Anyway- according to Williams Crawford there were 49 UK 993 RS..... not the 37 mentioned in the list previously. I hope this helps Holly and Mr Hartley JR

donutskidmark said: Anyway- according to Williams Crawford there were 49 UK 993 RS..... not the 37 mentioned in the list previously. I hope this helps Holly and Mr Hartley JR Thank you so much, I read on another forum there were 41 U.K...it’s hard to get an accurate isn’t it and it surprises me how many others quote wrong. This helps, thank you.

Essential said: I still own a 993 RS and had one since they were just a few months old. Paul was / is the man on them. He helped me loads on a few cars in the early 2000,s . I was very tempted by the red 993 RS that THJ bought and offered more than it sold for prior to the auction. Great cars, a good buy and easy to live with. Hope he enjoys the car. Thanks Essential.

Orangecurry said: Private collection I'm sure he'll hang onto them just long enough for the price to go up. It's such a shame that the car is wasted on people who put them into 'private collections'. But It looks like you'll have to misinform potential customers on the precise rarity of Tom's cars. And I know rarity and value are the principle reasons for owning such cars. Psssst just make up a low number - none of these buyers will care Hang on - here's an idea. If you really want to learn about the 993, the best way I found was to run one as your daily driver. Put the idea to Tom Junior - I bet he'll say yes. Orangecurry great idea! I’m definitely putting the driving experience forward!!! Brilliant idea. Edited by HollyMcNulty993 on Sunday 10th January 07:48

2 GKC said: Surely Porsche GB can provide this information? Don’t envy you working for that lot. Sadly not, so many people have used the information to make the rarity of these cars and others ambiguous when it should have been an honest/genuine black and white description. It’s such a shame really.

donutskidmark said: To be fair you can’t fault Holly and she obviously takes any complaint seriously if she’s willing to follow it up internally. Gosh you are so trusting. I've met quite a few 993 RS owners over the years especially on TDs at Goodwood. Most of them are really nice. Before we were running the Charity Days, so on a normal TD, I do remember walking over to chat to a pair of Guards owner's parked together under the paddock covers. They were the most unpleasant pair of humans I have ever met. The worst kind of 993 owner x1000. I've never met Trump, but these guys must have been a similar experience.

Essential said: I had one of the RHD Rivieria Clubsports The owner of dovehouse had the sikver RHD CS Yes I sold my white RHD comfort via DH Have owned about 5 speed yellow ones. And a black RHD early on Still own a speed yellow Clubsport Still enjoy them Ah yes thanks for correcting me.

There was 49 cars through reading plus a extra cs was built,i have all the chassis numbers and happy to check anything out for private owners through the club or directly but must respect the club code etc Row rhd were built for aus,nz,s africa etc etc Red is was a common colour,you would not class a 993 rs as a rare car really although half as many as the common 964rs !plenty of personal imports came in also.

GT4RS said: Well this post went down like a lead balloon for THJ. Not suggesting any dealer is perfect, but I’ve dealt a fair bit with THJ over the years, both before and since he went solo, and he’s always been honest and straight with me. Does what he says, has balls to buy stuff most will only SOR, and hasn’t let me down. There’s another thread running at the moment which names a joker of a dealer around the London area - people SOR’ing are ten a penny and rarely worth the phone call. I’m sure he’s made money out of every deal we’ve done and that’s fine as long as I’m getting what i want from it too. As I say, sure others will be able to point out deals that have not gone smoothly, and suspect his plain speaking puts some off, but unless all of us dealing with him are stupid/careless/clueless, he must be doing some things right.

Yellow491 said: There was 49 cars through reading plus a extra cs was built,i have all the chassis numbers and happy to check anything out for private owners through the club or directly but must respect the club code etc Row rhd were built for aus,nz,s africa etc etc Red is was a common colour,you would not class a 993 rs as a rare car really although half as many as the common 964rs !plenty of personal imports came in also. Awesome Yellow491, finally someone!

HollyMcNulty993 said: Awesome Yellow491, finally someone! Is it just me or is that just a bit rude ? Thank you is nice word to send to Yellow isn’t it

I didn't read it as rude ... there can't be so many people with this knowledge and who can argue with a dealer trying to get their information right ? Any buyer should be happy to have the correct information on which to base any buying decision ... I would. Even "thanks" can be seen as rude .. if you want it to be ?

Fair enough... Just me being a bit sensitive then . My apologies

Hartley using an assumed name to get what he wants. LOL Give it up Tom, I know you.

My name is Holly and I work for Tom Hartley Jnr, we have taken in 4 very special classic 993s and I needed some help in finding out production numbers....to start with does anyone know how many RHD 993 RSs were built worldwide in Guards Red? And out of the 41 RHD examples can we refine it further to know how many out of the 41 were Guards Red? Nothing was hidden ... and it has been done before plenty of times ...

Redarress said: Fair enough... Just me being a bit sensitive then . My apologies Now I wish I hadn't said anything

Cor, there are quite an unfriendly bunch on here? I would have thought people would have been falling over themselves to share 993 RS info. I had a rhd Carrera 2 993 and Found other owners a friendly bunch. I have driven a black cs 993 RS, rhd 993 Black RS and a red lhd 993 cs all on track and road loaned to me by friendly owners. Flemke also took me out in his 993 RS lhd at Bedford, the ‘ring and spa....I expect he knows a fair bit about the 993 RS.

Yeah, right, Ive gort it. Think up a really sexy name Junior, that it, that's it, its topical. Just after the Christmas, ye know. And a sexy surrrname, yes something saucy, that sounds likes " nuts" Aye. Aye. That's a stoater. That's it, that's it, now...………………..

Tell old JR Hartley to sling his hook... (Sorry)

Caddyshack said: Cor, there are quite an unfriendly bunch on here? I would have thought people would have been falling over themselves to share 993 RS info. If it was a private owner asking about his car, I'm sure people would be happy to help. But a car salesman, telling someone else to ask someone else to do his homework for him? Really? JBL said: Tell old JR Hartley to sling his hook... showing your age.

SGM - genuine LOL. And don't look up Holly on the internet.

Well if anyone ever wants to buy a 993 RS they now know exactly where a low miles RHD example is Holly's done her job very well indeed.

SGM called it - Tom has done his job.

IMI A said: Well if anyone ever wants to buy a 993 RS they now know exactly where a low miles RHD example is Holly's done her job very well indeed. They could have just bought it froM Silverstone Auctions themselves !

Christ this thread is a blast from the past. Some names I haven’t seen around PH for ages. Edited by LaurasOtherHalf on Wednesday 13th January 17:01

Orangecurry said: Caddyshack said: Cor, there are quite an unfriendly bunch on here? I would have thought people would have been falling over themselves to share 993 RS info. If it was a private owner asking about his car, I'm sure people would be happy to help. But a car salesman, telling someone else to ask someone else to do his homework for him? Really? JBL said: Tell old JR Hartley to sling his hook... showing your age. The car salesman is a business owner so asking an employee do do some digging would be normal I would have thought? Richard Branson doesn’t do much market research himself?

there are no virgins in the bordello

Caddyshack said: The car salesman is a business owner so asking an employee do do some digging would be normal I would have thought? Richard Branson doesn’t do much market research himself? Branson The sun dried Beegee Markets himself as some kind of hippy Owns a f cking airline The polluting self entitled prick.

I worked for a Branson company for a while, one he actively was involved in, i.e. not just using his brand. He's actually a good egg, IME.

Orangecurry said: I worked for a Branson company for a while, one he actively was involved in, i.e. not just using his brand. He's actually a good egg, IME. TBH I agree. I worked for him around 20 years ago and he came across very well. If memory serves his dad basically once told him he’d come to nothing ..... I’ve worked for far worse and they had far less. He was polite and friendly without an air or a grace. Like you say, a good egg

I always thought Branson was a sleazy bugger, like when he was trying to crack on to Jenson Buttons bird!

Wozy68 said: Orangecurry said: I worked for a Branson company for a while, one he actively was involved in, i.e. not just using his brand. He's actually a good egg, IME. TBH I agree. I worked for him around 20 years ago and he came across very well. If memory serves his dad basically once told him he’d come to nothing ..... I’ve worked for far worse and they had far less. He was polite and friendly without an air or a grace. Like you say, a good egg A chap I know is friends with Bransons neighbour, he owns the island next to necca and says they got on well and he used to pop over by jet ski with drinks just for fun. (Before things were ruined by a big storm) I have only ever seen a good side to him and he has certainly brought employment to many.

The people who worked for him back then were all put forward for a draw each month to win... a totally free holiday on Necca - treated like millionaires, or, more impressively, friends. He's the opposite of Elon, thought I've never met the latter.... I'm basing my opinion on the Pedo-guy thing

stichill99 said: I always thought Branson was a sleazy bugger, like when he was trying to crack on to Jenson Buttons bird! Yeah but she was fit

Wozy68 said: stichill99 said: I always thought Branson was a sleazy bugger, like when he was trying to crack on to Jenson Buttons bird! Yeah but she was fit Old bloke tries to pull a young and good looking F1 drivers woman....deserves a knighthood for that.

Caddyshack said: Old bloke tries to pull a young and good looking F1 drivers woman....deserves a knighthood for that. Richard Burton managed to steal F1 champ James Hunt's wife and got a knighthood.!

They are not for sale - they are going into Tom's Private Collection.

Orangecurry said: They are not for sale - they are going into Tom's Private Collection. I love a 993 but I don’t think I would have more than 1 or 2 different ones in any collection....unless it is more of an investment for later collection? I would guess that a 993 RS is close to the top of its value but I guess we will not know that until the future?

HollyMcNulty993 said: g7jhp said: HollyMcNulty993 said: Hi everyone! I hope you all had a great new year and managed to stay safe. Please can I pick your brains? My name is Holly and I work for Tom Hartley Jnr, we have taken in 4 very special classic 993s and I needed some help in finding out production numbers....to start with does anyone know how many RHD 993 RSs were built worldwide in Guards Red? And out of the 41 RHD examples can we refine it further to know how many out of the 41 were Guards Red? Really appreciate any help on this guy's x Worst details and POA post ever! What details would you have preferred to read?!! Talk about falling at the first hurdle! Details of the 4 very special classic 993s might be a starter: 1) 993 RS (199X), Red, X miles 2) 993 XX (199X), Colour, X miles 3) 993 XX (199X), Colour, X miles 4) 993 XX (199X), Colour, X miles It's an enthusiasts website, wer'e interested in cars so just asking for info when you could have made it more interesting and added a few photos is a fail. Talk to me about falling at the first hurdle! Edited by g7jhp on Wednesday 20th January 20:23

Orangecurry said: They are not for sale - they are going into Tom's Private Collection. Point being a few details and images would have made it far more interesting and got much more positive response.

g7jhp said: Orangecurry said: They are not for sale - they are going into Tom's Private Collection. Point being a few details and images would have made it far more interesting and got much more positive response. The majority of this thread seems to think it was a thinly veiled for sale original post?

Caddyshack said: g7jhp said: Orangecurry said: They are not for sale - they are going into Tom's Private Collection. Point being a few details and images would have made it far more interesting and got much more positive response. The majority of this thread seems to think it was a thinly veiled for sale original post? Yup

g7jhp said: Orangecurry said: They are not for sale - they are going into Tom's Private Collection. Point being a few details and images would have made it far more interesting and got much more positive response. There are loads of photo’s and details of the car on Silverstone Auctions website. Here’s the list on Classic Driver https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/porsche/911-9... And he posited on Social Media that he bought it so anyone who was looking for one of these cars would probably have known that or certainly found out pretty quickly.

Looks like he’s a buyer not a seller...for those who thought this thread was an advert https://www.instagram.com/p/CKTmMCZg_4o/?utm_sourc...

Cheib said: Looks like he’s a buyer not a seller...for those who thought this thread was an advert https://www.instagram.com/p/CKTmMCZg_4o/?utm_sourc... That just says 993’s wanted...like many Porsche traders buying stock

the same..................? https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/supercar-d... HollyMcNulty993 said: Hi everyone! I hope you all had a great new year and managed to stay safe. Please can I pick your brains? My name is Holly and I work for Tom Hartley Jnr, we have taken in 4 very special classic 993s and I needed some help in finding out production numbers....to start with does anyone know how many RHD 993 RSs were built worldwide in Guards Red? And out of the 41 RHD examples can we refine it further to know how many out of the 41 were Guards Red? Really appreciate any help on this guy's x

I'm certain that the dozens of very wealthy car-salesman that either have or are currently being investigated are completely innocent, and are not covering their own or their friends' backs. Holly - how have the last two years been for your research findings? Perhaps you can update the thread?