TRACK DAY TUITION - Page 2 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Hi all.... I’m an avid track-day enthusiast, and love the way my GT4 handles on circuit... Apart from my previous Lotus’s (Elise and Exige)— which were in a different league I felt— it is a pretty sublime car on track.... However, I’ve had very little in the way of “expert” tuition, and feel that I’m not fully “pushing” the car to its limits.... So, this summer I really fancy investing in some expert guidance— as opposed to simply modding the stock car— but don’t know where best to turn....? Porsche @Silverstone obviously offer their range of tuition/experience courses, but I do feel that sometimes you are paying more for the “experience” than the true track tuition itself....!! I’m not interested in fancy lunches: I just want top-quality intensive track instruction..... Does anybody have any experience/recommendations in this regard....?? I’m based in the Midlands if that helps...!! Cheers, Dave

You are right about manufacturer experiences, as instructors on those days we do always try to offer useful pointers to interested participants to improve their driving but the focus is more on the experience than driver training. Having said that several of the instructors who work on manufacturer experience days are freelance instructors who also offer private tuition. Most tracks have a race school associated with them and will be able to recommend a decent instructor who knows that specific track well and can improve your technique generally and offer insights specifically to that circuit, they will either have such an instructor on their staff or recommend someone they work with, which is usually a cost effective way of gaining some useful tuition. Alternatively many race drivers also offer private tuition, In my early days of racing I used a couple of race drivers for private tuition on track days & practice days, this is probably the best way to improve your driving. Again speak to a couple fo the race schools, they'll know who is available & worthwhile, but be prepared, race drivers can charge handsomely for one to one tuition; money well spent but will surely cost a lot more than a race school instructor.

1 to 1 with an instructor for the day is the way to go. - Finding one with vehicle specific experience is a bonus but not essential http://www.motorsportdays.com/driver-tuition/ Book an open pit lane trackday and reap the rewards!

Many thanks both....!! A few folk who I’ve met on track days also spoke highly of “CAT Driver Training”.... Anybody have any experience with them....??

I’ve got details of a couple of the PEC instructors who do private tuition. I’m going to do one of the Porsche Precision days on the main circuit with a PRC instructor after the summer and then I think go down the private instructor route.

Swimfinz said: Many thanks both....!! A few folk who I’ve met on track days also spoke highly of “CAT Driver Training”.... Anybody have any experience with them....?? Plenty. All absolutely brilliant. Friends with non-Porsches have the same to say. PM me if you'd like more detail. Colin will probably want you for a day at Millbrook before doing work on a track day, but that in itself is well worth it.

ab8 said: Swimfinz said: Many thanks both....!! A few folk who I’ve met on track days also spoke highly of “CAT Driver Training”.... Anybody have any experience with them....?? Plenty. All absolutely brilliant. Friends with non-Porsches have the same to say. PM me if you'd like more detail. Colin will probably want you for a day at Millbrook before doing work on a track day, but that in itself is well worth it. indeed. They have a very good reputation. Good guys

Rob Wilson ... teacher to F1 guys is interesting in really trying to understand what a car is doing .......otherwise lots of great instructors out there .

Depends what level you are at imo as to what training you need.

Porsche Club trackdays generally have two or three instructors available throughout the day for sessions. It doesn't matter how good anybody thinks that are, there's a lot to be learnt from good advice from the passenger seat and practice ... These sessions are generally very inexpensive ... (IMHO)

fesuvious said: Email sent Received: thankyou.....!!

Swimfinz said: Many thanks both....!! A few folk who I’ve met on track days also spoke highly of “CAT Driver Training”.... Anybody have any experience with them....?? Yes. Used them last year. Some of the best money you’ll ever spend in my opinion.

hunter 66 said: Rob Wilson ... teacher to F1 guys is interesting in really trying to understand what a car is doing .......otherwise lots of great instructors out there . With all due respect to the OP someone like Rob Wilson would be an instructor way above the level that would be useful to him as he hasn't done much trackwork with instruction nevermind racing. Colin at CAT is very good but a good number of decent other ones. You just need to find one (or a few actually just for a different experience between them) that fits you personally as well as feeling you are pushed the right amount.

www.carlimits.com is a good place to start. Run by a good friend of mine Andrew Walsh. Although I think Mark Robins does most of the tuition these days. Mark is also one of the instructors at PEC Silverstone. A great coach and good fun as well.

My son is a well regarded instructor - He coaches at all levels from rank novice upwards even though he has coached lots of championship winners (and won a few himself). He is very patient (even with me). He knows all the UK tracks very well (and many others) and can supply you with a complete list of all the UK tracks and his availability .PM me if it is of interest and I'll point you to his website.

Thanks all for the recommendations/advice.... I’ll be PM-ing a few of you shortly, if you don’t mind....!! I am certainly no “racing-driver”, and I’m sure my track skills are minimal compared to some of you— But, I think I’d rather “invest” in upping my track skills, rather than simply “upgrading” my GT4 to the “latest and greatest”..... I think it is often all too easy to get caught up in the “Big Numbers” game with respect to the latest performance cars—bhp/torque/downforce etc— when sometimes a far better investment would be to simply improve your own driving skills...!! What is the point in buying that latest model of GT2/3/4/RS, if the driver themselves is always going to be the limiting factor...?? Of course, this is all subjective opinion, and people buy the Porsche GT products for many different reasons.... (I have friends who gain great “pleasure” simply from driving their GT3s around town in 1st/2nd gear...!!). But I love that feeling of extracting everything I can from a car, and mastering its abilities, as opposed to being “overwhelmed” by the car to the point of being scared of it....!! Again, thanks all for the advice.... I’ll be in touch...!!

Swimfinz said: But I love that feeling of extracting everything I can from a car, and mastering its abilities, as opposed to being “overwhelmed” by the car to the point of being scared of it....!! Again, thanks all for the advice.... I’ll be in touch...!! I would still start off with a geo on the GT4. other wise you will just be fighting understeer and trying to pivot the car every bend 911 style ! then I would ask your self, can you threshold brake ie beat ABS to a full stop , know all about slip angles, heal and toe to a good level and stop/correct a spin. If the answer is no to the above, do a car handling day and learn some basics. if the answer is yes, what are your goals on track ? do you not know lines and braking points etc as an example, any of the normal £25 per 20 minute sessions can teach you those so no need to pay big money. If you can drive a car at 85%, know about slip angles, know lines etc then go straight to one to one Pro race driver training as none of the above if you can do all the above will find you time. but a Pro Current race driver will. I also do state CURRENT RACE DRIVER, I think a lot of normal instructors are ok to a point say 90%, these guys spend too much time with mr Ave trying to get them from 50% to 90% imo. I find them a bit lacking going from 90% to 100%. You just have to be honest with your level and choose the right course and people to get you up the ladder. I would not rule out sims either, every pro can race a Sim, ave drivers cannot drive sims I find, but put Lewis H in a sim and he will wipe the floor with you put a ave driver in a sim he will be off every bend ! all these skills make you faster on track as you are using more senses or honing them better. The other issue is anything above say 85% and you see flaws in the car set up, hence why very serious track rats end up with a car on a trailer at track days as road cars don't really work very well on track above a 85% level. You also have to ask your self where to stop on the % chart ! going from a 90% driver to a 97% driver is VERY expensive as that does mean a lot of Track time with a pro, that's >£2k a session all in.

Porsche911R said: then I would ask your self, can you threshold brake ie beat ABS to a full stop , know all about slip angles, heal and toe to a good level and stop/correct a spin. do you not know lines and braking points etc as an example, any of the normal £25 per 20 minute sessions can teach you those so no need to pay big money. I would not rule out sims either, every pro can race a Sim, ave drivers cannot drive sims I find, but put Lewis H in a sim and he will wipe the floor with you put a ave driver in a sim he will be off every bend ! all these skills make you faster on track as you are using more senses or honing them better. Yep: slip angles/ heel&toe/ lines/ braking points are all pretty ok imo.... But..... I still find myself struggling to hit similar times to similar set-ups to my own on track (although, you’re right regarding the geo— most of my track rat mates have some form of revised rear sus set-up on the GT4).... Regarding the Sim-Racing: it is something I’ve looked into as— like you say— it does seem to help with general skill development/tuning..... It just seems to be VERY expensive to get into a quality set-up, and therefore I felt it probably wiser to invest in actual in-car driving..... However, if you do know of any “good value” Sim set-ups, please let me know.... (Although, I guess that could be a whole different thread..!!)

Swimfinz said: Yep: slip angles/ heel&toe/ lines/ braking points are all pretty ok imo.... But..... I still find myself struggling to hit similar times to similar set-ups to my own on track (although, you’re right regarding the geo— most of my track rat mates have some form of revised rear sus set-up on the GT4).... Regarding the Sim-Racing: it is something I’ve looked into as— like you say— it does seem to help with general skill development/tuning..... It just seems to be VERY expensive to get into a quality set-up, and therefore I felt it probably wiser to invest in actual in-car driving..... However, if you do know of any “good value” Sim set-ups, please let me know.... (Although, I guess that could be a whole different thread..!!) sims is tricky subject as the more you spend the more real it feels, mine is about £5.5k , I have played on a PS2 in GT and I don't think that will help you. nor will any cheap PC steering wheels set up. I guess you could buy a nice PC for say £1.5k and just buy a steering wheel and bolt it to the table £1.3k and stop there with 1 screen. my sim shakes the race seat, the rig rumbles on the curbs, the steering is amazing, and I run 3 27" screens or a VR set up depending on what I feel like. VR F1 at Spa with every thing shaking is mental and great fun. but then so is driving a e30M in full manual mode around Donny. GT4 you have got to be running -2.2 up front and -1.8 at the rear min for track imo, and even maybe buy the DSC controller to stop the dive and help tyre wear a bit more, you will also have to swap out the oem pads for some thing better. I thought the GT4 oem pads were **** DS1.11 or RS29's say. unless you can afford some Endless Pads ;-) if you think you are at 80% already then try and club together with 2 mates to hire Pro driver for 1/2 a day 20 minutes in each car, 3 sessions each. you should just get 9 sessions in total for 1/2 a day for £600 (£200 each) at a guess on prices. make them work for it ;-)

I've had a fair amount of tuition in the past...20 minute sessions, full day instructor shared with a couple of mates and have done a CAT driver training day. I now regard myself as a competent track driver but not a fast/good track driver. I stopped taking tuition a couple of years ago because trying to go faster was starting to take the fun out of a track day. I'd forgotten that I was supposed to be there to enjoy it. I'm now back to just enjoying the day and enjoying the company of the mates I go with.This is also why I was happy to get a GT4 with 'chairs' rather than buckets (both of my previous track cars had buckets) because the second or two per lap they cost me is not important any more.

boxsey said: I've had a fair amount of tuition in the past...20 minute sessions, full day instructor shared with a couple of mates and have done a CAT driver training day. I now regard myself as a competent track driver but not a fast/good track driver. I stopped taking tuition a couple of years ago because trying to go faster was starting to take the fun out of a track day. I'd forgotten that I was supposed to be there to enjoy it. I'm now back to just enjoying the day and enjoying the company of the mates I go with.This is also why I was happy to get a GT4 with 'chairs' rather than buckets (both of my previous track cars had buckets) because the second or two per lap they cost me is not important any more. I agree I also stopped and not after times these days. once you get to 90% I think you have to be too hard on the car, have BIG balls and deep pockets. Take a look at the USA guys and they get though tyres every 4 track days, you should really change the fluid and oil also, you need a crazy geo, change pads at 50% worn all pointless imo as you say to find 1 second !! I don't even enjoy them that much now days !!! rather spend £2k and goto wales with a few mates for the weekend. Doing endless laps at 6mpg and wearing out your tyres, it is a daft pass time lol been there done it, does not interest me now days , most people hold you up, the car gets red hot and you melt your tyres due to a road geo !! you cannot legally time or race any one, so you just lap on your own for 10 laps and come in !! I go to get out the house and have a laugh with mates, like Steve says but I tend to do trips over track days the last 5 years. Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 8th May 13:06

Driving skills are a bit like Excel skills. If you think you are good you probably aren’t. Those that are good know there is so much more to learn.

Porsche911R said: sims is tricky subject as the more you spend the more real it feels, mine is about £5.5k , I have played on a PS2 in GT and I don't think that will help you. nor will any cheap PC steering wheels set up. I guess you could buy a nice PC for say £1.5k and just buy a steering wheel and bolt it to the table £1.3k and stop there with 1 screen. my sim shakes the race seat, the rig rumbles on the curbs, the steering is amazing, and I run 3 27" screens or a VR set up depending on what I feel like. VR F1 at Spa with every thing shaking is mental and great fun. but then so is driving a e30M in full manual mode around Donny. GT4 you have got to be running -2.2 up front and -1.8 at the rear min for track imo, and even maybe buy the DSC controller to stop the dive and help tyre wear a bit more, you will also have to swap out the oem pads for some thing better. I thought the GT4 oem pads were **** DS1.11 or RS29's say. unless you can afford some Endless Pads ;-) if you think you are at 80% already then try and club together with 2 mates to hire Pro driver for 1/2 a day 20 minutes in each car, 3 sessions each. you should just get 9 sessions in total for 1/2 a day for £600 (£200 each) at a guess on prices. make them work for it ;-) Good advice I think When you consider that racing at lower levels can often cost over £25-50k per season and at higher levels £300k plus for Carrea cup (plus car) and £1million for touring car, £5.5k for a good Simms set up is fantastic value for money. Even a track day in a biggish GT car costs north of £1k when you factor in consumable wear. Some drivers that I know use them regularly. Certainly something I would consider just to keep my hand in and may well be money well spent for anyone looking at improving their driving skill set. Much cheaper to stuff a virtual car into a barrier than a real one.

Any recommendations for driver training in Scotland ? I have done 2-3 track days and really enjoyed it but i feel I need help to get the best out the car and my skills Sid

Ping me a PM, I have an instructing colleague that is based in Scotland and does stuff at Knockhill which I guess is pretty much your only local option!